The Rapture?

5thKingdom

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You missed the most important verse;
John 10:14-16....there are other sheep of Mine .... There will be one flock, one Shepherd.
Christians and the remnant of the Jews will be gathered into all of the holy Land, soon after all of that area is cleared and cleansed by the Sixth Seal Day of cloud, as prophesied by - Ezekiel 34:11-16, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Isaiah 35:1-10, Zechariah 8:1-8, +


You missed the most important verse;
John 10:14-16....there are other sheep of Mine .... There will be one flock, one Shepherd.



That is a valid Biblical teaching (but I did not "miss it" as you pretend)


Christians and the remnant of the Jews will be gathered into all of the holy Land, soon after all of that area is cleared and cleansed by the Sixth Seal Day of cloud, as prophesied by - Ezekiel 34:11-16, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Isaiah 35:1-10, Zechariah 8:1-8,


That is a private interpretation and NOT a valid Biblical teaching.
Do not pretend that citing verses AFTER your private interpretation
somehow validates your "theory" since you have not proven that
the CONTEXT of those verses is the same CONTEXT as the issue
being discussed.


You tend to do that a lot. You present your private interpretation
and then cite several Scriptures that do not even have the same
CONTEXT as the issue being discussed and then you pretend that
you have somehow validated your private interpretation... that
does not even pass the giggle test.

.
 
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5thKingdom

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It is the expiration date of all work and labor on earth. That was Adam's punishment, the sweat of the brow. The mark comes out on the brow, after God says, time shall be no more. It marks the end of the 6000 year punishment with a cursed brand fully displayed on all those who choose not to be found in the Lamb's book of life. They follow Satan as his disciples in Solidarity against God. The ultimate labor union.


Please provide SCRIPTURE to support your private interpretation
that the "mark of the Beast" represents what you describe above.

I wonder WHY you seem to always express your "feelings" without
any supporting SCRIPTURE and then think you have proven
something.

Do you not realize you need SCRIPTURE to prove a doctrine?

BTW... based on my understanding of your theory above...
are you saying there was a "Beast" during the (1st)
Pre-Flood Kingdom and during the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom
and during the (3rd) Christian Kingdom IN ADDITION TO
the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]?


/
 
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5thKingdom

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Nobody can come to salvation without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.


But, of course I NEVER claimed otherwise:
Here is what I said:

The Beast ascending in Rev 11 happens after the testimony
of the Two Witnesses if finished. The loosening of Satan also
occurs after the Great Commission is finished and all the elect
have been saved. It is only then that the Holy Spirit that restrains
[2 Thes 2:2-3] can be removed and Satan can be loosened and
the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1] can begin.



You said:
Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?


Of course that does not relate to the TIME PERIOD in question,
which is AFTER the testimony of the Two Witness is finished and
AFTER all the Saints have been saved. So you only presented
a STRAWMAN argument
.


You said:
Rom 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.


Of course that does not relate to the TIME PERIOD in question,
which is AFTER the testimony of the Two Witness is finished and
AFTER all the Saints have been saved. So you only presented
a STRAWMAN argument again.



1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.


Of course that does not relate to the TIME PERIOD in question,
which is AFTER the testimony of the Two Witness is finished and
AFTER all the Saints have been saved. So you only presented
a STRAWMAN argument again.



The Holy Spirit is the master teacher in the New Covenant,
based on the verse above and John 14:26.


Of course that does not relate to the TIME PERIOD in question,
which is AFTER the testimony of the Two Witness is finished and
AFTER all the Saints have been saved. So you only presented
a STRAWMAN argument again.



If you want to REFUTE my words then you will need Scripture
that has the same CONTEXT as my words... otherwise you
have only presented a strawman argument and prove nothing
other than (a) you are willing to be less than honest or
(b) you just do not understand the context discussed.


I make NO JUDGMENT on which of those applies to you.


Now... do you have any SCRIPTURES you would like to
provide that have the CONTEXT of the period discussed...
the period AFTER the Holy Spirit is removed... the period
AFTER all the testimony of the church is finished...
the period AFTER all the Saints are saved?


I would be MOST INTERESTED in Scriptures that
have that CONTEXT... do you know of any?
They do exist... I have quoted them often.


.
 
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keras

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That is a private interpretation and NOT a valid Biblical teaching.
Do not pretend that citing verses AFTER your private interpretation
somehow validates your "theory" since you have not proven that
the CONTEXT of those verses is the same CONTEXT as the issue
being discussed.
You demand we provide scriptures and their context, but you fail to do that yourself.
If any scripture I have used is out of context, please tell me. Allegations are useless.

Who will occupy the Land?
The question of who will inhabit the holy Land in the period before the Return of Jesus, is made clear by the following Bible passages;

Daniel 7:25 He [the Anti-Christ] will wear down the holy ones of God. He will change the feasts and the religious laws. The Lord’s holy people will be delivered into his power for 3½ years. [Those people, who stay in Beulah: Isaiah 62:1-5, will experience the Tribulation. Daniel 11:32, Revelation 12:17]

Daniel 11:21-22....a despicable man, not recognized as a king, will come unexpectedly and seize the kingdom by intrigue. He will sweep all opposition before him and will kill a leader of the covenant people. [The leader of the One World Govt will conquer Beulah, inhabited by every faithful Christian, and will kill one of their leaders.]

Daniel 11:29-35 At the appointed time, he will again invade the South, but ships of Kittim will oppose him. As he retreats, he will vent his fury against the covenant people. He will reward those who forsake their covenant with God. Troops in his command will stop the regular offering and set up ‘the abomination that causes desolation’. With flattery, he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who are faithful to their God, will be resolute and take action.

Wise leaders of the nation will guide the people, though for a time, they will be taken captive and killed. Some help will come, albeit; not entirely sincere. Those leaders may become victims, so that they may be refined and purified, ready for the end of the age. Daniel 12:3 The wise leaders, who have guided the people in the true path, will shine like stars, forever.
The Anti Christ invades some unidentified nations in Southern regions, but ships of Kittim [Cyprus – in the Mediterranean, but this is a metaphor for the Western nations] will stop him. He will then occupy the Holy Land, taking control and causing many of God’s people to obey him. Those who hold firm to their Covenant with God will be persecuted and some killed. This is in order to refine and purify them, ready for the Return of Jesus; 1260 days later.


Zechariah 14:1-2 A Day is coming for the Lord to act and the plunder taken from you will be shared out while you stand by. I shall gather all the nations to make war on Jerusalem, the city will be taken, the houses ransacked and the women raped. Half of the people will go into exile, but the rest will remain there. Daniel 9:27 &11:31-32
Verses 1 & 2 must refer to the midpoint of the 70th week. [7 year period] That commences the Great Tribulation, 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls. Then: from verse 3, the description is of the Return of Jesus.


Revelation 13:5-10 The Beast, [Anti-Christ] was given permission to continue for 42 months. [3½ years] He blasphemed against God and waged war on God’s people and defeated them, he was given authority over the whole earth. You have ears, so hear!
Those who are destined for prison, will be imprisoned, those to be killed will be killed. This calls for the endurance and faithfulness of God’s people.


Revelation 12:13-14 The dragon [Satan: the Beast] is thrown down to earth. He pursues the Woman, [Israelites, Overcomers; the followers of Jesus] who gave birth to the male child. [Jesus] But she is given the wings of the mighty eagle, so that she could fly to a place in the wilderness, where she is looked after for 3½ years. Ref. REB, NIV. Verses abridged.


In Zechariah 14:2 it says that half of the population will go into exile, this obviously is the Woman: faithful Christian Israelites, referred to in Revelation 12:6-17, where they will be kept safe until the Return.

Then, in Matthew 24:31 – they will be gathered back into the Land, along with those Gentiles who have refused the mark of the Beast, to live with Christ for 1000 years.
The other half of the population who remain in the Land, will suffer under the yoke of the Anti-Christ. They are the Lord’s Christian people, who have to face testing and refinement. Daniel 11:32-33, Revelation 14:12, 2 Esdras 13:47-50, Revelation 7:14....they have passed through the great ordeal.... It is these people who will say to Jesus: “Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord”.

So, who are those living in the Land of Israel before and during the Tribulation?
They are the Lord’s people, all the true believers, mainly the Christian descendants of Jacob; all 12 tribes of Israel, gathered, in order to fulfil God’s promises to the Patriarchs, to be His witnesses and to be His Light to the nations. All of the Lord’s faithful Christian people will occupy all of the holy Land, from the Nile to the Euphrates, being the people that Gad always wanted there, but has never yet had.

It is quite evident, from Bible study, that the next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal, will cause a dramatic clearance of peoples from all the Middle East area. Jeremiah 10:18, Jeremiah 12:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Amos 1 & Amos 2:1-5

In Ezekiel 20:34-38, we see the gathering of all the 12 tribes of Israel. The Lord will judge them and those who revolt and rebel will not enter the holy Land.
Then all His righteous people to emigrate there, as described in Isaiah 66:18b-21, Psalms 107, all faithful Christians, from every nation and language, to live there in peace and prosperity. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, and Romans 9:24-26 says how the Christians become Sons of the Living God, in the very place that the ancient Israelites were rejected. The literal fulfilment of Isaiah 62:1-5 and Isaiah 66:7-14

They will rebuild the Temple and reinstitute the Law and the ordinances. Zechariah 6:15, Ezekiel 43:1-12, Isaiah 56:1-8

All the rest of the world will be under a One World Government, initially ruled by 10 leaders, but soon to be taken over by another strong leader. He will rule until the Return of Jesus, when he will be chained up for the 1000 years.
 
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BABerean2

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But, of course I NEVER claimed otherwise:
Here is what I said:

The Beast ascending in Rev 11 happens after the testimony
of the Two Witnesses if finished. The loosening of Satan also
occurs after the Great Commission is finished and all the elect
have been saved. It is only then that the Holy Spirit that restrains
[2 Thes 2:2-3] can be removed and Satan can be loosened and
the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1] can begin.



You said:
Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?


Of course that does not relate to the TIME PERIOD in question,
which is AFTER the testimony of the Two Witness is finished and
AFTER all the Saints have been saved. So you only presented
a STRAWMAN argument
.


You said:
Rom 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.


Of course that does not relate to the TIME PERIOD in question,
which is AFTER the testimony of the Two Witness is finished and
AFTER all the Saints have been saved. So you only presented
a STRAWMAN argument again.



1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.


Of course that does not relate to the TIME PERIOD in question,
which is AFTER the testimony of the Two Witness is finished and
AFTER all the Saints have been saved. So you only presented
a STRAWMAN argument again.



The Holy Spirit is the master teacher in the New Covenant,
based on the verse above and John 14:26.


Of course that does not relate to the TIME PERIOD in question,
which is AFTER the testimony of the Two Witness is finished and
AFTER all the Saints have been saved. So you only presented
a STRAWMAN argument again.



If you want to REFUTE my words then you will need Scripture
that has the same CONTEXT as my words... otherwise you
have only presented a strawman argument and prove nothing
other than (a) you are willing to be less than honest or
(b) you just do not understand the context discussed.


I make NO JUDGMENT on which of those applies to you.


Now... do you have any SCRIPTURES you would like to
provide that have the CONTEXT of the period discussed...
the period AFTER the Holy Spirit is removed... the period
AFTER all the testimony of the church is finished...
the period AFTER all the Saints are saved?


I would be MOST INTERESTED in Scriptures that
have that CONTEXT... do you know of any?
They do exist... I have quoted them often.


.


The seventh trumpet, and the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others is found in the passage below.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


This occurs shortly after the resurrection of the Two Witnesses.

Based on Revelation 10:7, the "mystery" of God is finished at the sounding of the seventh trumpet.

This is the Second Coming of Christ, as confirmed below by the Apostle Paul.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


This also proves the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

.


.
 
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Timtofly

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Please provide SCRIPTURE to support your private interpretation
that the "mark of the Beast" represents what you describe above.

I wonder WHY you seem to always express your "feelings" without
any supporting SCRIPTURE and then think you have proven
something.

Do you not realize you need SCRIPTURE to prove a doctrine?

BTW... based on my understanding of your theory above...
are you saying there was a "Beast" during the (1st)
Pre-Flood Kingdom and during the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom
and during the (3rd) Christian Kingdom IN ADDITION TO
the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]?


/
You already know all the Scripture. What is the point? You see things through the lense of kingdoms. I see the whole creation. We will never agree on anything. Unless you think the final harvest is over in 6 years, we will not agree on the final harvest.
 
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5thKingdom

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You already know all the Scripture. What is the point? You see things through the lense of kingdoms. I see the whole creation. We will never agree on anything. Unless you think the final harvest is over in 6 years, we will not agree on the final harvest.


(1) First, my question was NOT about the Final Harvest.
So your statement above is just a DEFLECTION away from
the question I asked.


(2) Secondly... why be on this forum if you refuse to answer
questions about your doctrines. That makes no sense. Are
you only going to make statements about what you believe
the BIBLE says.. and then refuse to answer questions about
your beliefs?


(3) I asked you to tell me WHAT the "mark of the Beast"
represents. Here is what you said:


It is the expiration date of all work and labor on earth. That was Adam's punishment, the sweat of the brow. The mark comes out on the brow, after God says, time shall be no more. It marks the end of the 6000 year punishment with a cursed brand fully displayed on all those who choose not to be found in the Lamb's book of life. They follow Satan as his disciples in Solidarity against God. The ultimate labor union.


Then I asked you to please provide Scripture to support that view.
And your answer (above) was:


You already know all the Scripture. What is the point? You see things through the lense of kingdoms. I see the whole creation. We will never agree on anything. Unless you think the final harvest is over in 6 years, we will not agree on the final harvest.


I did not ask you to tell me what Scripture I know... I asked that
you provide Scripture to support your belief that the "mark"
represented and "expiration date of all work and labor on earth".
And "the mark comes out on the brow, after God says time shall
be no more".


Now you say "you already know the Scripture. What is the point?"


Of course the POINT is that Saints provide SCRIPTURE to support
their doctrines... that is the PROCESS that has been used for about
2000 years (not even counting OT Saints). If you are ABOVE that
process... again I ask WHY even be on a forum?


Since you say (and I quote again)
"We will never agree on anything. Unless you think the final harvest
is over in 6 years, we will not agree on the final harvest."


Since you clearly do not want to discuss Scriptures about the "mark"
then let me ask you WHY do you think the Final Harvest will be in
6 years? Do you have Scriptures to support that doctrine?


.
 
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5thKingdom

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Here is what I said:

The Beast ascending in Rev 11 happens after the testimony
of the Two Witnesses if finished. The loosening of Satan also
occurs after the Great Commission is finished and all the elect
have been saved. It is only then that the Holy Spirit that restrains
[2 Thes 2:2-3] can be removed and Satan can be loosened and
the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1] can begin.


Now... do you have any SCRIPTURES you would like to
provide that have the CONTEXT of the period discussed...
the period AFTER the Holy Spirit is removed... the period
AFTER all the testimony of the church is finished...
the period AFTER all the Saints are saved?



The seventh trumpet, and the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others is found in the passage below.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

This occurs shortly after the resurrection of the Two Witnesses.

Based on Revelation 10:7, the "mystery" of God is finished at the sounding of the seventh trumpet.

This is the Second Coming of Christ, as confirmed below by the Apostle Paul.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

This also proves the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

.


Now, you have provided me with Scriptures that have a context
of being when the Seventh Trumpet Sounds. And you (correctly)
note this is shortly after the Two Witnesses are resurrected.


But my question was not on what happens at the Seventh Trump,
but what happens:


(1) AFTER the testimony of the Two Witnesses is finished.
I claimed (and I quote) "The The Beast ascending in Rev 11
happens after the testimony of the Two Witnesses if finished.
The loosening of Satan also occurs after the Great Commission
is finished and all the elect have been saved. It is only then that
the Holy Spirit that restrains [2 Thes 2:2-3] can be removed
and Satan can be loosened and the Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1] can begin."



I asked you (and I quote) Now... do you have any SCRIPTURES
you would like to provide that have the CONTEXT of the period
discussed... the period AFTER the Holy Spirit is removed...
the period AFTER all the testimony of the church is finished...
the period AFTER all the Saints are saved?


Essentially, I want to talk about events happening DURING

the Great Tribulation or Revelation Beast and you skipped
ahead to events AFTER the Revelation Beast.



You provided Scripture about the Seventh Trump while I was
asking you to provide scriptures about EVENTS after the testimony
of the Two Witness was finished... after the Great Commission...
after the Holy Spirit is removed and the Great Tribulation BEGINS.


Essentially I want to talk about the EVENTS that occur DURING
the 1st Woe (fifth Trumpet) and the 2nd Woe (Sixth Trumpet)
and you skipped right to the 3rd Woe (Seventh Trumpet)


So we seem to be miscommunicating here. I am not saying
that is your fault... but it is clearly happening.


Are you interested in talking about EVENTS that occur during
the 1st Woe (fifth Trumpet) and the 2nd Woe (Sixth Trumpet)?



If you are NOT interested in talking about SCRIPTURES with
a context of the time AFTER the Two Witnesses testimony
is "finished" then you can just say so. You have the right
to NOT talk about Scriptures.


I don't think anybody will think LESS of you if you refuse
to talk about Scriptures (or events) AFTER the testimony
of the Two Witnesses is finished. And whether these Two
Witnesses represent the testimony of the CHURCH during
the Great Commission.


Rev 11:7
And when they shall have finished their testimony,
the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit
shall make war against them, and shall overcome them,
and kill them.


.
 
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BABerean2

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Here is what I said:

The Beast ascending in Rev 11 happens after the testimony
of the Two Witnesses if finished. The loosening of Satan also
occurs after the Great Commission is finished and all the elect
have been saved. It is only then that the Holy Spirit that restrains
[2 Thes 2:2-3] can be removed and Satan can be loosened and
the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1] can begin.


Now... do you have any SCRIPTURES you would like to
provide that have the CONTEXT of the period discussed...
the period AFTER the Holy Spirit is removed... the period
AFTER all the testimony of the church is finished...
the period AFTER all the Saints are saved?






Now, you have provided me with Scriptures that have a context
of being when the Seventh Trumpet Sounds. And you (correctly)
note this is shortly after the Two Witnesses are resurrected.


But my question was not on what happens at the Seventh Trump,
but what happens:


(1) AFTER the testimony of the Two Witnesses is finished.
I claimed (and I quote) "The The Beast ascending in Rev 11
happens after the testimony of the Two Witnesses if finished.
The loosening of Satan also occurs after the Great Commission
is finished and all the elect have been saved. It is only then that
the Holy Spirit that restrains [2 Thes 2:2-3] can be removed
and Satan can be loosened and the Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1] can begin."



I asked you (and I quote) Now... do you have any SCRIPTURES
you would like to provide that have the CONTEXT of the period
discussed... the period AFTER the Holy Spirit is removed...
the period AFTER all the testimony of the church is finished...
the period AFTER all the Saints are saved?


Essentially, I want to talk about events happening DURING

the Great Tribulation or Revelation Beast and you skipped
ahead to events AFTER the Revelation Beast.



You provided Scripture about the Seventh Trump while I was
asking you to provide scriptures about EVENTS after the testimony
of the Two Witness was finished... after the Great Commission...
after the Holy Spirit is removed and the Great Tribulation BEGINS.


Essentially I want to talk about the EVENTS that occur DURING
the 1st Woe (fifth Trumpet) and the 2nd Woe (Sixth Trumpet)
and you skipped right to the 3rd Woe (Seventh Trumpet)


So we seem to be miscommunicating here. I am not saying
that is your fault... but it is clearly happening.


Are you interested in talking about EVENTS that occur during
the 1st Woe (fifth Trumpet) and the 2nd Woe (Sixth Trumpet)?



If you are NOT interested in talking about SCRIPTURES with
a context of the time AFTER the Two Witnesses testimony
is "finished" then you can just say so. You have the right
to NOT talk about Scriptures.


I don't think anybody will think LESS of you if you refuse
to talk about Scriptures (or events) AFTER the testimony
of the Two Witnesses is finished. And whether these Two
Witnesses represent the testimony of the CHURCH during
the Great Commission.


Rev 11:7
And when they shall have finished their testimony,
the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit
shall make war against them, and shall overcome them,
and kill them.


.

Revelation 11:15-18 is the Second Coming of Christ.
There will not be any tribulation period that occurs later.

The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18 proves the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

Christ returning as a thief at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16 also proves the book is not in chronological order.

Christ also returns with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse, in Revelation chapter 6. Why are the characters hiding from the wrath of the Lamb, unless the Lamb is present during that time? We also find characters listed, (kings, mighty men, captains, free, and bond) which are found later in the book at Armageddon.

Christ returns in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares from Matthew chapter 13.

He returns as a thief in chapter 16, along with the most powerful earthquake in the history of the world.

He returns in chapter 19.

He returns when the fire comes, and the time of the judgment of the dead at the end of Revelation chapter 20. See Christ returning "in flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

Because the New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20, there cannot be a time when the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth before the Second Coming of Christ. However, this idea has become a common teaching, especially among those promoting Dispensational Theology. Others have picked up the idea without knowing where it came from.

Respectfully yours,


The principle of "Recapitulation" in the Book of Revelation:


.
 
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5thKingdom

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Revelation 11:15-18 is the Second Coming of Christ.
There will not be any tribulation period that occurs later.

The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18 proves the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

Christ returning as a thief at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16 also proves the book is not in chronological order.

Christ also returns with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse, in Revelation chapter 6. Why are the characters hiding from the wrath of the Lamb, unless the Lamb is present during that time? We also find characters listed, (kings, mighty men, captains, free, and bond) which are found later in the book at Armageddon.

Christ returns in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares from Matthew chapter 13.

He returns as a thief in chapter 16, along with the most powerful earthquake in the history of the world.

He returns in chapter 19.

He returns when the fire comes, and the time of the judgment of the dead at the end of Revelation chapter 20. See Christ returning "in flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

Because the New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20, there cannot be a time when the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth before the Second Coming of Christ. However, this idea has become a common teaching, especially among those promoting Dispensational Theology. Others have picked up the idea without knowing where it came from.

Respectfully yours,


The principle of "Recapitulation" in the Book of Revelation:


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Beran2,

Thank you for the response. However (again) the passages you offered address
the time of the Lord's Return when I was looking to discuss the events that occur
between the start of the GT and the end of the GT... at the Lord's Return.

I do appreciate your response. Lord Willing I will just post a new thread next week
that provides an outline of the events happening DURING the GT or Revelation Beast
and you can respond to that thread and (hopefully) we can discuss that information
about the events after the start of the GT - but before the Lord's Return at the END
of the GT.

I look forward to seeing your comments on that thread.

Jim

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5thKingdom

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Jesus Christ returns in the 6th seal - the great tribulation
has ended.

Revelation 7 is a new vision. It will also reveal events as
to the great tribulation and thereafter.

There are two sets of angels as Revelation 7 begins.

four angels - one set
sealing /we angels -one set

The sealing angels arrive from the east and hand the
trumpet plagues to the set of four angels. They then go
about sealing the 144,000 and return to heaven -to stand
before God -announcing how many they had sealed.


Jesus Returns in Rev 6 and Rev 11 and Rev 18 and Rev 20....
you need to HARMONIZE each of those prophecies instead
of just focusing on Rev 6

If you do not have harmony of ALL RELATED Scripture
then you cannot have Biblical truth.

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