Sometimes it feels like there's just 3 hells

Jamdoc · Jul 2, 2020

Earth is hell for me because of my afflictions
Hell is obviously hell that you don't want to go to
and the more I think and read on heaven the more that becomes hell for me too, "think on the promises of God" I do. "focus your mind on eternity" I do. That's a big part of the problem.

I already know I have nothing to look forward to in this life, it's a complete wash for me.
but I just have this pessimistic view of heaven and the new earth too. Like I'm so used to never getting anything I want and always getting what I hate that I just don't expect it to stop in eternity, because of scripture promising an end to some things I'd like and promising me that the one thing I can look forward to is singing (which I hate) to a person who has made this life on earth Hell on earth for me. Sometimes that feels like an insult, to praise and worship and do an activity I loathe for a person who has afflicted me, denied me good things, and then promised me I will never get some things I want forever.

My nephews and niece bring me joy, they bring my sister even more joy, and that brings me sorrow knowing I will never be able to experience that joy, as I'll NEVER have children of my own.

Sometimes I think the best thing God can do for me is to just wipe me from existence, that would be the most benevolent thing to make it so that I'm just not conscious anymore, then there is no loss and no negativity.
and yet I fear that because the one thing that Christians always try to be helpful with is that "God will change your desires" which doesn't sound like fulfilling desires as much as it sounds like brainwashing, and to me that's basically not existing either, if you met me in heaven or the new earth and I just love singing and eating bananas, that's not me, that's my replacement.

Yesterday I got the premonition that God would withhold another dream of mine, even in eternity: to travel through space. That God would limit us to just the one planet forever. That for me would be so crushingly disappointing to me. I can't take that, that there's a way that I'd be disappointed in God, but I can see it happening to me the more things He promises to withhold. I can't be happy just falling on my face and singing. That is the 3rd Hell for me.

How do I deconstruct the third hell?

Rachel20 · Jul 2, 2020

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2

I heard a commentary on this verse that it implies extra dimensions else why would we have to become like Christ in order to "see him as he is"? It's like a 2-dimensional being could not see a 3-dimensional being as he really was, unless he became one himself. I think the idea of moving out of our limited 3-d space and moving into 4, 5, 6 ... 10 dimensions is beyond exciting. Can't even wrap my brain around it, but "hell" is the last way I'd describe it.

Edit: Found it, was Missler (RIP) he covers it here @ ~2:20 I loved it when he would get off into science

crossnote · Jul 2, 2020

Jamdoc said:
How do I deconstruct the third hell?

A quick taste of the first hell will deconstruct your view of the third hell.

eleos1954 · Jul 2, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Earth is hell for me because of my afflictions
Hell is obviously hell that you don't want to go to
and the more I think and read on heaven the more that becomes hell for me too, "think on the promises of God" I do. "focus your mind on eternity" I do. That's a big part of the problem.

I already know I have nothing to look forward to in this life, it's a complete wash for me.
but I just have this pessimistic view of heaven and the new earth too. Like I'm so used to never getting anything I want and always getting what I hate that I just don't expect it to stop in eternity, because of scripture promising an end to some things I'd like and promising me that the one thing I can look forward to is singing (which I hate) to a person who has made this life on earth Hell on earth for me. Sometimes that feels like an insult, to praise and worship and do an activity I loathe for a person who has afflicted me, denied me good things, and then promised me I will never get some things I want forever.

My nephews and niece bring me joy, they bring my sister even more joy, and that brings me sorrow knowing I will never be able to experience that joy, as I'll NEVER have children of my own.

Sometimes I think the best thing God can do for me is to just wipe me from existence, that would be the most benevolent thing to make it so that I'm just not conscious anymore, then there is no loss and no negativity.
and yet I fear that because the one thing that Christians always try to be helpful with is that "God will change your desires" which doesn't sound like fulfilling desires as much as it sounds like brainwashing, and to me that's basically not existing either, if you met me in heaven or the new earth and I just love singing and eating bananas, that's not me, that's my replacement.

Yesterday I got the premonition that God would withhold another dream of mine, even in eternity: to travel through space. That God would limit us to just the one planet forever. That for me would be so crushingly disappointing to me. I can't take that, that there's a way that I'd be disappointed in God, but I can see it happening to me the more things He promises to withhold. I can't be happy just falling on my face and singing. That is the 3rd Hell for me.

May you be inspired ...

St_Worm2 · Jul 2, 2020

Hello @Jamdoc, the Christian life is one of trust in and surrender to the One who died to save, sanctify and glorify us. This means that we must often wait patiently upon Him who knows us better than we could ever hope to know ourselves, accepting the situation(s) that we find ourselves in, both good and bad, and believing in His promise to us that He will work even the worst of things that occur in our lives out for our good .. Romans 8:28 (always knowing and remembering how VERY much He loves us, and that He always wants the very best for us, even if we don't know what that is).

Being a child of God is far less about getting want we think we want from Him, and far more about trusting that He will give us what He knows that we need to be evermore Christlike, and that in His perfect timing (after all, He is the one who can see the big picture of our lives that we cannot

).

He is not/never will be some sort of Cosmic Sugar-Daddy, but He does make us this wonderful promise,

Psalm 37
4 Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart.

Be careful to understand exactly what our half of the verse, the command half, is telling us to do however (i.e. just to be clear, this verse does NOT tell us to "delight God" to get Him to give us what we want .. like some kind of Cosmic Quid Pro Quo

). Rather, the key to fulfilling our half of the verse is found in always chasing after Him, never in chasing after the things that we want from Him.

--David

Jamdoc · Jul 2, 2020

crossnote said:
A quick taste of the first hell will deconstruct your view of the third hell.

Not really, this hell is already bad enough, the whole point is that all heaven seems to be is a place of less suffering and disappointment rather than no suffering and total fulfillment.

Jamdoc · Jul 2, 2020

St_Worm2 said:
Hello @Jamdoc, the Christian life is one of trust in and surrender to the One who died to save, sanctify and glorify us. This means that we must often wait patiently upon Him who knows us better than we could ever hope to know ourselves, accepting the situation(s) that we find ourselves in, both good and bad, and believing in His promise to us that He will work even the worst of things that occur in our lives out for our good .. Romans 8:28 (always knowing and remembering how VERY much He loves us, and that He always wants the very best for us, even if we don't know what that is).

Being a child of God is far less about getting want we think we want from Him, and far more about trusting that He will give us what He knows that we need to be evermore Christlike, and that in His perfect timing (after all, He is the one who can see the big picture of our lives that we cannot ).

He is not/never will be some sort of Cosmic Sugar-Daddy, but He does make us this wonderful promise,

Psalm 37
4 Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart.

Be careful to understand exactly what our half of the verse, the command half, is telling us to do however (i.e. just to be clear, this verse does NOT tell us to "delight God" to get Him to give you want you want ). Rather, the key to fulfilling our half of the verse is found in always chasing after Him, never in chasing after the things that we want from Him.

--David

It's a lot harder when there are explicit promises about what won't be on the new earth that I would like or enjoy. No seas, I've always wanted to scuba dive but am physically unable to. No marriage, that means no children, and I've already expressed how that hurts me. Matthew 22:30 is like stabbing a dagger into my heart every time I even think of that verse.

As for what's promised to me in my situation?
Isaiah 56:3-5
What am I supposed to do with a monument and a name? To me monuments and names are meaningless and useless.

It becomes exceedingly hard to rejoice in someone who has tormented you in this life, and in the next the best they can offer you is a name.

Jamdoc · Jul 2, 2020

eleos1954 said:
May you be inspired ...

Unlike his situations what I have is genetic. I don't want to pass it on.
How does he make a living to support his family? Being disabled doesn't support a lifestyle like that.

eleos1954 · Jul 2, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Unlike his situations what I have is genetic. I don't want to pass it on.
How does he make a living to support his family? Being disabled doesn't support a lifestyle like that.

He is a motivational speaker .... and yes by turning his negatives into positives he earns a good living.

Stephen Hawking is another good example of one overcoming quite significant disabilities.

I understand and respect your decision not to pass on genetically ... however ... there also are other possibilities , adoption ... marrying someone who already has kids .... etc.

You sound terribly depressed and you need to find and engage in positive things.

St_Worm2 · Jul 2, 2020

Jamdoc said:
It's a lot harder when there are explicit promises about what won't be on the new earth that I would like or enjoy. No seas, I've always wanted to scuba dive but am physically unable to. No marriage, that means no children, and I've already expressed how that hurts me. Matthew 22:30 is like stabbing a dagger into my heart every time I even think of that verse.

As for what's promised to me in my situation?
Isaiah 56:3-5
What am I supposed to do with a monument and a name? To me monuments and names are meaningless and useless.

It becomes exceedingly hard to rejoice in someone who has tormented you in this life, and in the next the best they can offer you is a name.

Hello again @Jamdoc, believe it or not, you're not the only one among us who hasn't gotten what they think they both want and deserve from God. Since all things are possible for God however, who knows what He has in store for you, even during the remainder of your life here .. Isaiah 40:31; Jeremiah 29:11.

The thing (as I pointed out in my last post) is to surrender ourselves to Him. This includes ALL of our wants and desires, BTW, trusting that while He knows what we want, He also knows what is best for us (which means He may not give us what we want .. for our own good, or that He may give us what we want, but only in His perfect timing, rather than the moment we want it, again, for our good.

Accept, trust and surrender

As for what is promised to you as His child in the age to come, consider this passage instead .. Revelation 21:1-7 (see v4 in particular). Many of the things that you think you're going to want in Heaven may not be even close to what you'll actually want once you get there. BTW, remembering all that He did to save you is helpful in trusting that He always has your very best in mind, both now, and forevermore.

God bless you!

--David
p.s. - here are a few quotes from missionary and author, Elisabeth Elliot, that may be helpful.

"God is God. Because He is God, He is worthy of my trust and obedience. I will find rest nowhere but in His holy will, a will that is unspeakably beyond my largest notions of what He is up to."

"God never withholds from His child that which His love and wisdom call good. He never denies our heart's desire except to give us something better."

"Waiting on God requires the willingness to bear uncertainty, to carry within oneself the unanswered question, lifting the heart to God about it whenever it intrudes upon one's thoughts."

"This hard place in which you perhaps find yourself is the very place in which God is giving you opportunity to look only to Him, to spend time in prayer, and to learn long-suffering, gentleness, meekness - in short, to learn the depths of the love that Christ Himself has poured out on all of us."

"Our vision is so limited that we can hardly imagine a love that does not show itself in protection from suffering…. The love of God did not protect His own Son…. He will not necessarily protect us – not from anything it takes to make us like His Son."
.

Jamdoc · Jul 2, 2020

eleos1954 said:
He is a motivational speaker .... and yes by turning his negatives into positives he earns a good living.

Stephen Hawking is another good example of one overcoming quite significant disabilities.

I understand and respect your decision not to pass on genetically ... however ... there also are other possibilities , adoption ... marrying someone who already has kids .... etc.

You sound terribly depressed and you need to find and engage in positive things.

I am terribly depressed. I'm in the midst of an MS flareup so I'm stuck at home unable to do much. Being in pain and being disabled and stuck and not feeling like you can do anything makes you feel totally at God's mercy and when you pray for that mercy and it doesn't come.. and the promises in scripture seem to promise more that you won't enjoy than what you will enjoy.. it's a dark prison to be in.

Love of God almost feels forced, because I see more that is evil in my life than good that He's brought to me. People can say "what about your salvation" and to me it feels like, that wasn't done for me, it was done for everyone else and I'm just snagging a fringe benefit by association, a stowaway, a charity case, sneaking in by technicality but if God had really chosen people out I'd be excluded from that too. Or like God is actively seeking to push me away, as if to say "you wouldn't like it at my place anyway, I'm mean to you, and there's nothing you like here, and if you come I'll just make you do a bunch of things you hate, dinner's going to be your least favorite thing, seriously how do I get rid of you, you're inconvenient"

How to love Him and take joy in Him when He has made you joyless and the one thing you can ever claim He did for you is a benefit He gave to all that would take it, not for you in particular?
I don't know how to make joy out of being excluded, I don't know how to be purely vicariously happy, even if everything for me personally is a dump.

Jamdoc · Jul 2, 2020

St_Worm2 said:
Hello again @Jamdoc, believe it or not, you're not the only one among us who hasn't gotten what they think they both want and deserve from God. Since all things are possible for God however, who knows what He has in store for you, even during the remainder of your life here .. Isaiah 40:31; Jeremiah 29:11.

The thing (as I pointed out in my last post) is to surrender ourselves to Him. This includes ALL of our wants and desires, BTW, trusting that while He knows what we want, He also knows what is best for us (which means He may not give us what we want .. for our own good, or that He may give us what we want, but only in His perfect timing, rather than in ours, again, for our good.

Accept, trust and surrender

As for what is promised to you as His child in the age to come, consider this passage instead .. Revelation 21:1-7 (see v4 in particular). Many of the things that you think you're going to want in Heaven may not be even close to what you'll actually want once you get there. BTW, remembering all that He did to save you is helpful in trusting that He always has your very best in mind, both now, and forevermore.

God bless you!

--David
p.s. - here are a few quotes from missionary and author, Elisabeth Elliot, that may be helpful.

"God is God. Because He is God, He is worthy of my trust and obedience. I will find rest nowhere but in His holy will, a will that is unspeakably beyond my largest notions of what He is up to."

"God never withholds from His child that which His love and wisdom call good. He never denies our heart's desire except to give us something better"

"Our vision is so limited that we can hardly imagine a love that does not show itself in protection from suffering…. The love of God did not protect His own Son…. He will not necessarily protect us – not from anything it takes to make us like His Son."
.

Yeah.. the ever famous wiping away every tears verse. I know
and I feel like He can wipe and wipe and wipe and the tears won't stop coming. Every time I think of a joy that I did not get to have and that is now made impossible so I just miss out on it, those tears will be there to be wiped away again.

The Christlike I see in myself?
Isaiah 53:3

eleos1954 · Jul 2, 2020

Jamdoc said:
I am terribly depressed. I'm in the midst of an MS flareup so I'm stuck at home unable to do much. Being in pain and being disabled and stuck and not feeling like you can do anything makes you feel totally at God's mercy and when you pray for that mercy and it doesn't come.. and the promises in scripture seem to promise more that you won't enjoy than what you will enjoy.. it's a dark prison to be in.

Love of God almost feels forced, because I see more that is evil in my life than good that He's brought to me. People can say "what about your salvation" and to me it feels like, that wasn't done for me, it was done for everyone else and I'm just snagging a fringe benefit by association, a stowaway, a charity case, sneaking in by technicality but if God had really chosen people out I'd be excluded from that too. Or like God is actively seeking to push me away, as if to say "you wouldn't like it at my place anyway, I'm mean to you, and there's nothing you like here, and if you come I'll just make you do a bunch of things you hate, dinner's going to be your least favorite thing, seriously how do I get rid of you, you're inconvenient"

How to love Him and take joy in Him when He has made you joyless and the one thing you can ever claim He did for you is a benefit He gave to all that would take it, not for you in particular?
I don't know how to make joy out of being excluded, I don't know how to be purely vicariously happy, even if everything for me personally is a dump.

These negative thoughts you are having are not from God. The awful things in the world is a result of sin entering the world. We are made aware of this in His word ... and He tells us ... because of this (sin entering the world) ... we will have great tribulation in this world ... and ... we do.

He also says he will help us through them if we rely on Him.

Go read the book of Job if you haven't ... if you have ... read it again.

I don't know how to be purely vicariously happy,

None of us are my friend ... we all have our challenges and struggles.

Tick-Tock: Glenn Beck Debunks The BIGGEST Lies Surrounding The Covington Controversy - YouTube

eleos1954
Jan 24, 2019
1

Glenn gives a moment by moment recap of exactly what happened in D.C. last weekend between the...

We all look forward to His return and to an end of all this suffering and sorrow.

Also, don't pre-suppose in your mind what heaven will look like or be like ... or whether you will enjoy it or not .... He's going to create a new earth and there will be no sin in it.

We aren't going to just be sitting on a bunch of clouds playing harps praising the Lord.

Think about creation before the fall of mankind .... only on a universal level.

Jamdoc said:
I am terribly depressed. I'm in the midst of an MS flareup so I'm stuck at home unable to do much. Being in pain and being disabled and stuck and not feeling like you can do anything makes you feel totally at God's mercy and when you pray for that mercy and it doesn't come.. and the promises in scripture seem to promise more that you won't enjoy than what you will enjoy.. it's a dark prison to be in.

Love of God almost feels forced, because I see more that is evil in my life than good that He's brought to me. People can say "what about your salvation" and to me it feels like, that wasn't done for me, it was done for everyone else and I'm just snagging a fringe benefit by association, a stowaway, a charity case, sneaking in by technicality but if God had really chosen people out I'd be excluded from that too. Or like God is actively seeking to push me away, as if to say "you wouldn't like it at my place anyway, I'm mean to you, and there's nothing you like here, and if you come I'll just make you do a bunch of things you hate, dinner's going to be your least favorite thing, seriously how do I get rid of you, you're inconvenient"

How to love Him and take joy in Him when He has made you joyless and the one thing you can ever claim He did for you is a benefit He gave to all that would take it, not for you in particular?
I don't know how to make joy out of being excluded, I don't know how to be purely vicariously happy, even if everything for me personally is a dump.

These negative thoughts you are having are not from God. The awful things in the world is a result of sin entering the world. We are made aware of this in His word ... and He tells us ... because of this (sin entering the world) ... we will have great tribulation in this world ... and ... we do.

1 Peter 5

7Cast all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you.8Be sober-minded and alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9Resist him, standing firm in your faith and in the knowledge that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kinds of suffering.

He also says he will help us through them if we rely on Him.

2 Corinthians 12:9 My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Psalm 46:1 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.

Go read the book of Job if you haven't ... if you have ... read it again.

I don't know how to be purely vicariously happy,

None of us are my friend ... we all have our challenges and struggles.

We all look forward to His return and to an end of all this suffering and sorrow.

Also, don't pre-suppose in your mind what heaven will look like or be like ... or whether you will enjoy it or not ....

He's going to create a new earth and there will be no sin in it. Try to imagine that!
We aren't going to just be sitting on a bunch of clouds playing harps praising the Lord.

Think about creation before the fall of mankind .... only on a universal level. The garden of Eden restored ... so to speak.

It's not about this life (although we do have to endure it) .... it's about the next one!

May the power and love of the Lord help you through your struggles. Amen.

Jamdoc · Jul 2, 2020

eleos1954 said:
These negative thoughts you are having are not from God. The awful things in the world is a result of sin entering the world. We are made aware of this in His word ... and He tells us ... because of this (sin entering the world) ... we will have great tribulation in this world ... and ... we do.

He also says he will help us through them if we rely on Him.

Go read the book of Job if you haven't ... if you have ... read it again.

None of us are my friend ... we all have our challenges and struggles.

Tick-Tock: Glenn Beck Debunks The BIGGEST Lies Surrounding The Covington Controversy - YouTube

eleos1954

Jan 24, 2019

1

Glenn gives a moment by moment recap of exactly what happened in D.C. last weekend between the...

We all look forward to His return and to an end of all this suffering and sorrow.

Also, don't pre-suppose in your mind what heaven will look like or be like ... or whether you will enjoy it or not .... He's going to create a new earth and there will be no sin in it.

We aren't going to just be sitting on a bunch of clouds playing harps praising the Lord.

Think about creation before the fall of mankind .... only on a universal level.

These negative thoughts you are having are not from God. The awful things in the world is a result of sin entering the world. We are made aware of this in His word ... and He tells us ... because of this (sin entering the world) ... we will have great tribulation in this world ... and ... we do.

1 Peter 5

7Cast all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you.8Be sober-minded and alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9Resist him, standing firm in your faith and in the knowledge that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kinds of suffering.

He also says he will help us through them if we rely on Him.

2 Corinthians 12:9 My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Psalm 46:1 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.

Go read the book of Job if you haven't ... if you have ... read it again.

None of us are my friend ... we all have our challenges and struggles.

We all look forward to His return and to an end of all this suffering and sorrow.

Also, don't pre-suppose in your mind what heaven will look like or be like ... or whether you will enjoy it or not ....

He's going to create a new earth and there will be no sin in it. Try to imagine that!
We aren't going to just be sitting on a bunch of clouds playing harps praising the Lord.

Think about creation before the fall of mankind .... only on a universal level. The garden of Eden restored ... so to speak.

It's not about this life (although we do have to endure it) .... it's about the next one!

May the power and love of the Lord help you through your struggles. Amen.

I've read the book of Job and where I see myself in it I also don't. Job started out blessed, he had a multitude of reasons to praise and love the Lord, because he was wealthy and had a family, he had the resources to be generous and many things to be thankful for.
I have few things to be thankful for and it becomes a struggle to find something in each day to be thankful for and it can feel rote and not heartfelt to just.. thank Him for the same things every day the universal things He gave everyone who called upon the name of Jesus I can only be thankful for good things happening to others and never me so much before the tide of feeling excluded overwhelms me. I've even tried thanking Him for my afflictions, to be thankful in all things and that was just.. bitter. It was like begging for someone to punch you in the face.

Job was blessed and had it taken away and came out of it with more than He'd lost.
I never had to begin with, I just had doors and opportunities close.. if they were ever there to begin with. It's hard to be generous when you don't have resources to give with.

as far as eternity goes. I'd have had a much rosier image of it in my mind if I'd never read scripture at all. I used to, I used to think that so what I don't get married in this life, that just means a match made in heaven right? It's one thing to deprive yourself of something you want for a season, or even a finite lifetime, it's a completely different thing to know it's deprived for eternity. It actually makes you want that thing more, it actually starts to become an idol, PRECISELY because you know it's withheld from you forever.

and I know, it's not just floating on clouds plucking harps, but it might as well be, because the only thing we really know for sure we're going to get in eternity is to see God and worship Him and sing "HOLY HOLY HOLY..."
man I've tried watching videos to shake that image from my head and a Pastor starts out "oh it's not going to be a boring church service and we all just say HOLY HOLY HOLY..".. but then he gets into his description of "imagine..." and then goes right into how great it's going to be and how the ONLY thing you're gonna want to do is be in New Jerusalem singing HOLY HOLY HOLY.....
Wow he just uturned on me, just like that.

It's just hard to shake when you're stuck in a funk here, and the only things promised there seem so unfulfilling

eleos1954 · Jul 2, 2020

Jamdoc said:
I've read the book of Job and where I see myself in it I also don't. Job started out blessed, he had a multitude of reasons to praise and love the Lord, because he was wealthy and had a family, he had the resources to be generous and many things to be thankful for.
I have few things to be thankful for and it becomes a struggle to find something in each day to be thankful for and it can feel rote and not heartfelt to just.. thank Him for the same things every day the universal things He gave everyone who called upon the name of Jesus I can only be thankful for good things happening to others and never me so much before the tide of feeling excluded overwhelms me. I've even tried thanking Him for my afflictions, to be thankful in all things and that was just.. bitter. It was like begging for someone to punch you in the face.

Job was blessed and had it taken away and came out of it with more than He'd lost.
I never had to begin with, I just had doors and opportunities close.. if they were ever there to begin with. It's hard to be generous when you don't have resources to give with.

as far as eternity goes. I'd have had a much rosier image of it in my mind if I'd never read scripture at all. I used to, I used to think that so what I don't get married in this life, that just means a match made in heaven right? It's one thing to deprive yourself of something you want for a season, or even a finite lifetime, it's a completely different thing to know it's deprived for eternity. It actually makes you want that thing more, it actually starts to become an idol, PRECISELY because you know it's withheld from you forever.

and I know, it's not just floating on clouds plucking harps, but it might as well be, because the only thing we really know for sure we're going to get in eternity is to see God and worship Him and sing "HOLY HOLY HOLY..."
man I've tried watching videos to shake that image from my head and a Pastor starts out "oh it's not going to be a boring church service and we all just say HOLY HOLY HOLY..".. but then he gets into his description of "imagine..." and then goes right into how great it's going to be and how the ONLY thing you're gonna want to do is be in New Jerusalem singing HOLY HOLY HOLY.....
Wow he just uturned on me, just like that.

It's just hard to shake when you're stuck in a funk here, and the only things promised there seem so unfulfilling

well certainly we are going to praise Him .... but that is not the only thing we are going to be doing .... that's a picture of all of creation praising Him and being thankful that the end of sin has come and praising Him for it. It certainly does not represent what we are going to be doing throughout eternity.

We will be in harmony with our creator ... of whom can speak anything into existence.

how great it's going to be and how the ONLY thing you're gonna want to do is be in New Jerusalem singing HOLY HOLY HOLY..

If this person thinks this is all we are going to be doing ... he is mistaken ... and if you think so .... you are mistaken.

Again .... when He creates a new heaven and earth .... no sin .... there will be animals, we will build houses .... like I said .... try to imagine our earth without sin .... it's going to be better than that. We have glimpses of the new earth .... but for myself .... just living in a world that has no sin and no pain or death .... everything beyond that ... is just "gravy on the potatoes" ;o) I also look forward to meeting and speaking with all the wonderful people that are going to be there .... and also the angels .... and my my my speaking with the creator myself? No more lies, knowing the truth about everything. WOW! I can hardly wait!

St_Worm2 · Jul 2, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Yeah.. the ever famous wiping away every tears verse. I know and I feel like He can wipe and wipe and wipe and the tears won't stop coming. Every time I think of a joy that I did not get to have and that is now made impossible so I just miss out on it, those tears will be there to be wiped away again.

The Christlike I see in myself?
Isaiah 53:3

Hello again Jamdoc, what others thought of the Lord, and how they treated Him .. Isaiah 53:3, has nothing to do with Christlikeness. Our being willing to endure the temporary sufferings, shame and heartaches of this life (because of the joy that has been set before us as children of the living God) has everything to do with being Christlike. I believe that growing in Christlikeness, more than anything else, means growing in our trust of Him and of His word, as well in our surrender of everything to Him (the One who loves us so), in the midst of our sufferings (and of our joys).

As for what you are "missing out on" as a child of God, first and foremost, that would be unending torment in the Lake of Fire, yes? (even though, just like the reprobate, we all deserve that fate)

St. Paul tells us to always be rejoicing in/thankful to Him .. e.g. Philippians 4:4; 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18. Whenever I'm feeling depressed, I try to turn that around by looking for something simple to rejoice in and thank Him for, something as insignificant (and as wonderful) as a cool summer breeze on my face, for instance. And if things are REALLY bad, then it is to the Cross and to His promises that I turn, because they remind me 1. how much I am loved by Him, and 2. that as bad as things are in the moment, the bad things are not something that we must endure forever .. cf Revelation 21:4, and we also know that He is using all of them (somehow) for our good .. e.g. Romans 8:28; Hebrews 12:7-11.

As Charles Spurgeon once said, "I've learned to kiss the waves that throw me up against the Rock of Ages."

I am also certain of this, that the Christian life is about growing in our trust of Him, and of everything that He tells us in His word (which certainly includes all of the great promises that He made to us), rather than in our feelings (especially trusting Him in the moment/in the midst of our feelings, feelings that tell us that what God has said to us and promised us, simply cannot be true .. or at least that it cannot be true ~for us~ anyway).

What this means is that we must ~choose~ to listen to Him (moment by moment), INSTEAD of listening to our feelings, which is something that is VERY hard to do, especially at first (but each time you choose to do so, it becomes easier and easier :amen:

). In fact, we choose to take our negative feelings and thoughts "captive" (rather than listening to them .. 2 Corinthians 10:5), and give them over to the Lord to deal with instead.

This is also the principle way that we obey this command, "resist the devil", and the way that we receive the promise that is attached to it when we do, "and he will flee from you" .. James 4:7.

Praying for you!

--David

Jamdoc · Jul 2, 2020

eleos1954 said:
well certainly we are going to praise Him .... but that is not the only thing we are going to be doing .... that's a picture of all of creation praising Him and being thankful that the end of sin has come and praising Him for it. It certainly does not represent what we are going to be doing throughout eternity.

We will be in harmony with our creator ... of whom can speak anything into existence.

If this person thinks this is all we are going to be doing ... he is mistaken ... and if you think so .... you are mistaken.

Again .... when He creates a new heaven and earth .... no sin .... there will be animals, we will build houses .... like I said .... try to imagine our earth without sin .... it's going to be better than that. We have glimpses of the new earth .... but for myself .... just living in a world that has no sin and no pain or death .... everything beyond that ... is just "gravy on the potatoes" ;o) I also look forward to meeting and speaking with all the wonderful people that are going to be there .... and also the angels .... and my my my speaking with the creator myself? No more lies, knowing the truth about everything. WOW! I can hardly wait!

Hard to see that perfect house in the perfect place right.. when you wanted to live near the ocean.. that won't be there... with a family, that also will not be there. so I just live somewhere.. by myself, and just be brothers with everyone? He CAN speak anything into existence but with just a short verse He spoke marriage and a family out of my existence.

eleos1954 · Jul 2, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Hard to see that perfect house in the perfect place right.. when you wanted to live near the ocean.. that won't be there... with a family, that also will not be there. so I just live somewhere.. by myself, and just be brothers with everyone? He CAN speak anything into existence but with just a short verse He spoke marriage and a family out of my existence.

Perhaps you should seek counseling .... you have got to get out of this depression ... you are so depressed in your mind you don't see much good ... now or in the future ... that's no way to live my friend .... it's a pessimistic mind set ... and you need to change that to an optimistic mindset.

Here are some easy techniques you can use to boost your optimism:

Avoid getting hung up on one thing ...
Remember that there's always a silver lining ... even if small
Get over the past. ...
Be thankful. ...
Use positive affirmations...
Surround yourself with positive people
Remember that even a positive life has ups and downs.

SeekingGloryOnThisJourney · Jul 2, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Earth is hell for me because of my afflictions
Hell is obviously hell that you don't want to go to
and the more I think and read on heaven the more that becomes hell for me too, "think on the promises of God" I do. "focus your mind on eternity" I do. That's a big part of the problem.

I already know I have nothing to look forward to in this life, it's a complete wash for me.
but I just have this pessimistic view of heaven and the new earth too. Like I'm so used to never getting anything I want and always getting what I hate that I just don't expect it to stop in eternity, because of scripture promising an end to some things I'd like and promising me that the one thing I can look forward to is singing (which I hate) to a person who has made this life on earth Hell on earth for me. Sometimes that feels like an insult, to praise and worship and do an activity I loathe for a person who has afflicted me, denied me good things, and then promised me I will never get some things I want forever.

What is your definition of good things? What God wants, or yourself?

Jamdoc said:
My nephews and niece bring me joy, they bring my sister even more joy, and that brings me sorrow knowing I will never be able to experience that joy, as I'll NEVER have children of my own. Sometimes I think the best thing God can do for me is to just wipe me from existence, that would be the most benevolent thing to make it so that I'm just not conscious anymore, then there is no loss and no negativity.
and yet I fear that because the one thing that Christians always try to be helpful with is that "God will change your desires" which doesn't sound like fulfilling desires as much as it sounds like brainwashing, and to me that's basically not existing either, if you met me in heaven or the new earth and I just love singing and eating bananas, that's not me, that's my replacement

Desires can quickly become idols. God won’t bless you with an idol.
But that doesn’t meant we cannot have anything at all, we just use it for His Glory (1 Corinthians 10:31) and not our own glorification.
Also what gives you the idea that you’re just going to sing and eat bananas in Heaven?
You are just a human. You cannot fathom the joy that will indeed come upon you on the day that He calls you home.

Jamdoc said:
Yesterday I got the premonition that God would withhold another dream of mine, even in eternity: to travel through space. That God would limit us to just the one planet forever. That for me would be so crushingly disappointing to me. I can't take that, that there's a way that I'd be disappointed in God, but I can see it happening to me the more things He promises to withhold. I can't be happy just falling on my face and singing. That is the 3rd Hell for me.

First you must find out what the promises are, while some are for all, we also have personal ones.

Jamdoc said:
How do I deconstruct the third hell

finding the truth-
Nobody ever said it would be easy. We live in a world where if Christianity is ever preached it’s only always the prosperity gospel-
“Salvation with a smile” “your best life now”
It’s not always going to be easy. We wrestle with our personal doubts and fears. The good news is, The Spirit is Willing, but the flesh is weak. Matthew 26:41
Also,
Think of a bride and groom.
The bride thinks the groom has lots of money, and by marrying, she’ll get it all.
On the day of the wedding she finds out he does not, so she leaves him.
Now think of this and your desires.
Do you want God in all and above all? Or are you waiting for what you want?
I understand where your coming from, for many times I’ve experienced the same thing, wishing to be “asleep”.
I hope and Pray for you. Don’t give up. It’s not to late to hope.

Jamdoc · Jul 2, 2020

eleos1954 said:
Perhaps you should seek counseling .... you have got to get out of this depression ... you are so depressed in your mind you don't see much good ... now or in the future ... that's no way to live my friend .... it's a pessimistic mind set ... and you need to change that to an optimistic mindset.

Here are some easy techniques you can use to boost your optimism:

Avoid getting hung up on one thing ...

Remember that there's always a silver lining ... even if small

Get over the past. ...

Be thankful. ...

Use positive affirmations...

Surround yourself with positive people

Remember that even a positive life has ups and downs.

Like I said, would have been easier to be positive about things if I'd never read a lick of scripture. When anything is possible in God it seems like the perfect place, when you imagine things that you'd like and God just says "no", that's where it sinks in. That's what sunk my battleship, was scripture itself.

Sometimes it feels like there's just 3 hells

Watching and Praying Always

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God is Love

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God is Love

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God is Love

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