THE SABBATH TRUTH!

Word and Spirit said:

I was never taught that growing up in the SDA denomination. Nor have I heard anyone on the forums say anything scripturally about the law being kept before Moses, except that Abraham kept His commandments, Genesis 26:4-5.

4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

However, it has never been written that Abraham kept the Sabbath. Abraham obeyed His voice. In other words, what God told Abraham about Sarah, he believed - to a point. But finally tried to help God out by going into Hagar. Then in Galatians 4 we see that her son, Ishmael, represented the Law of Moses given on Mt. Sinai. Just as he was a son of the flesh, those laws were commandments of the flesh to be kept by the letter of the law. Isaac was the son of promise, and His laws are written on our hearts, and kept by the Spirit of Christ in us.

Click to expand...

I keep the ten commandments by the Spirit of Christ in me, but it is only a meager offering. I depend upon the merits of Christ alone to justify me. There's no other way. The doers of the law will be justified (Romans 2:13), but not by their own doing. Paul was a Pharisee and spoke kind of backwards. A better translation for modern English-speakers would be "the justified will be doers of the law."

Bob S said:

It is one of the things Ellen wrote. She had to have gotten it from her accompanying angel. She claimed her writings came from God. The questions I asked are very reasonable.

All heaven is keeping the Sabbath, but not in a listless, do-nothing way. On this day every energy of the soul should be awake, for are we not to meet with God and with Christ our Saviour? We may behold Him by faith. He is longing to refresh and bless every soul.481 {CCh 267.3}

Click to expand...

I know that it comes from Mrs. White's pen. I'm not sure I understand it. I suspect that the best explanation I could give would be summarily ridiculed if my past experience is any indication.

I also don't understand some parts of the Bible, which contains statements that seem to contradict each other, but I don't require the Bible to be completely understandable to believe it is, in every word, the Word of God. I think that's a fairly orthodox view.Even the apostle Peter said that there are things written by Paul in the scriptures that are hard to understand.

What I do understand is that Mrs. White's writings are held to a much higher standard than the Bible, especially by her detractors, which seems very odd to me since something called "the lesser light" would seem to indicate some sense of inferiority to "the greater light," if anything.

Nevertheless, I do not believe that the fourth commandment dictates six full days of labor. I'm not aware of anyone ever having taught it as such, and I interpret it as commanding the remembrance and observance of the Sabbath, with work being distinctly prohibited thereupon.

Bob S said:

No, the Sabbath was God's gift to Israel.

Why on Earth would something like that be part of the fundamental beliefs? The one about believing the church having the gift of prophesy should be enough to satisfy you that the church believes Heaven is keeping the Sabbath too. The problem is when and how long.

Click to expand...

If we are grafted into Israel, we are the new Israel.

Again I don't understand the details of Sabbath-keeping in Heaven (I trust God to manage that) and I won't unnecessarily risk subjecting my faith to derision by venturing an analysis. No, thank you. I prefer to try to be as gentle as doves, but also as wise as serpents. It does not come naturally to me. I am a recovering flamer and goader. I admit to using a safety net by saying that I do not understand all inspired words, but I believe it is no crime. Many times silence is eloquence.

Word and Spirit said:

Adam didn't labor in the garden, but only after he sinned and was cast out of the garden, and the ground was hard and cursed with thistles.

Click to expand...

Labor did not begin after Eden was taken from Adam--only the labor that tires and wears. The mother and father of the race had happy, painless duties in Eden.

Word and Spirit said:

I was never taught that growing up in the SDA denomination. Nor have I heard anyone on the forums say anything scripturally about the law being kept before Moses, except that Abraham kept His commandments, Genesis 26:4-5.

Click to expand...

You grew up in the SDA church and you were never taught that, God's law existed before Mt Sinai? Here is what the SDA believes.

The Law Before Sinai.
The law existed long before God gave the Decalogue to Israel. If it did not, there could have been no sin before Sinai, "for sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4, KJV). That Lucifer and his angels sinned gives evidence of the presence of the law even before Creation (2 Peter 2:4). (www.sdanet.org)

4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

Click to expand...

There also existed recorded laws at the time of Abraham. The seven laws given to Noah, which no doubt Abraham obeyed. Abraham also obeyed God's call to leave Ur.
Further, Abraham believed God and was reckoned righteous.
Abraham was commanded to circumcise his descendants.

However, it has never been written that Abraham kept the Sabbath.

Click to expand...

That's not what the SDA believe, the Sabbath is eternal and Abraham was Sabbath compliant. SDA call the ten commandments, 'moral commandments', they reflect God's nature. So they are always in force and always have been.

klutedavid said:

You grew up in the SDA church and you were never taught that, God's law existed before Mt Sinai? Here is what the SDA believes.

The Law Before Sinai.
The law existed long before God gave the Decalogue to Israel. If it did not, there could have been no sin before Sinai, "for sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4, KJV). That Lucifer and his angels sinned gives evidence of the presence of the law even before Creation (2 Peter 2:4). (www.sdanet.org)
There also existed recorded laws at the time of Abraham. The seven laws given to Noah, which no doubt Abraham obeyed. Abraham also obeyed God's call to leave Ur.
Further, Abraham believed God and was reckoned righteous.
Abraham was commanded to circumcise his descendants.That's not what the SDA believe, the Sabbath is eternal and Abraham was Sabbath compliant. SDA call the ten commandments, 'moral commandments', they reflect God's nature. So they are always in force and always have been.

Click to expand...

I went to SDA grade school, SDA academy, and SDA college. Left the denomination when I was 23.

Cshuffle777 said:

I know that it comes from Mrs. White's pen. I'm not sure I understand it. I suspect that the best explanation I could give would be summarily ridiculed if my past experience is any indication.

I also don't understand some parts of the Bible, which contains statements that seem to contradict each other, but I don't require the Bible to be completely understandable to believe it is, in every word, the Word of God. I think that's a fairly orthodox view.Even the apostle Peter said that there are things written by Paul in the scriptures that are hard to understand.

What I do understand is that Mrs. White's writings are held to a much higher standard than the Bible, especially by her detractors, which seems very odd to me since something called "the lesser light" would seem to indicate some sense of inferiority to "the greater light," if anything.

Nevertheless, I do not believe that the fourth commandment dictates six full days of labor. I'm not aware of anyone ever having taught it as such, and I interpret it as commanding the remembrance and observance of the Sabbath, with work being distinctly prohibited thereupon.


If we are grafted into Israel, we are the new Israel.

Again I don't understand the details of Sabbath-keeping in Heaven (I trust God to manage that) and I won't unnecessarily risk subjecting my faith to derision by venturing an analysis. No, thank you. I prefer to try to be as gentle as doves, but also as wise serpents. It does not come naturally to me. I am a recovering flamer and goader. I admit to using a safety net by saying that I do not understand all inspired words, but I believe it is no crime. Many times silence is eloquence.

Click to expand...

Did God work for six days in creating the universe and life? Did God take a day off during those six days? When did God put His feet up for a rest?

Exodus 20:8-10
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.

Word and Spirit said:

I went to SDA grade school, SDA academy, and SDA college. Left the denomination when I was 23.

Click to expand...

You were never taught that God's laws, the ten words, are His very nature?

That the heavens and the earth have always honored the Sabbath?

Word and Spirit said:

I went to SDA grade school, SDA academy, and SDA college. Left the denomination when I was 23.

Click to expand...

What was the turning point for you, the trigger that started your research. Into whether the SDA's interpretation of the scripture was correct?

klutedavid said:

That's not what the SDA believe, the Sabbath is eternal and Abraham was Sabbath compliant. SDA call the ten commandments, 'moral commandments', they reflect God's nature. So they are always in force and always have been.

Click to expand...

The Sabbath was made for man and therefore could not have been in effect in eternity past before the creation of the world. Christ was not human in that age.

klutedavid said:

You grew up in the SDA church and you were never taught that, God's law existed before Mt Sinai? Here is what the SDA believes.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, it is quite common for Adventist youth to emerge from the Adventist parochial education system not knowing what they believe. We home-schooled our children after 2 years because we saw this coming with them.

The Law Before Sinai.
The law existed long before God gave the Decalogue to Israel. If it did not, there could have been no sin before Sinai, "for sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4, KJV). That Lucifer and his angels sinned gives evidence of the presence of the law even before Creation (2 Peter 2:4). (www.sdanet.org)

Click to expand...

SDANet is a 20+ year-old website that was originally intended to serve as a place for Adventists to meet and discuss various issues. The forum deteriorated into a gossip mill and now the site serves mainly as an archive of scholarly articles and books accross the spectrum of doctrinal beliefs. It has no official capacity whatsoever in determining church doctrine. It is a self-supporting ministry that does not speak for the church.

The law of the ten commandments was not in effect before the creation of the world. The Sabbath was very likely unnecessary and so was the commandment prohibiting adultery since neither God nor the angels married or gave in marriage, nor did they procreate. The angels were once oblivious to the law of God because before the rebellion of Lucifer it never occurred to any of them to deviate from the true law which constitutes the character of God: Other-centered, self-sacrificing love to God and neighbor.

The law of the ten commandments was that which constitutes the character of God in Christ as the 2nd Adam.

klutedavid said:

That's not what the SDA believe, the Sabbath is eternal and Abraham was Sabbath compliant. SDA call the ten commandments, 'moral commandments', they reflect God's nature. So they are always in force and always have been.

Click to expand...

No, it really never was documented in Scripture that Abraham kept the Sabbath. There is no reason to believe that he didn't, since it was instituted at the creation of the world. Mrs. White emphatically claims he did, but I burden no one to rest their doctrinal positions upon her writings, as I do not myself.

klutedavid said:

Did God work for six days in creating the universe and life?

Click to expand...

Are we to believe that the mercy and redemptive efforts of Lucifer and the fallen angels were exhausted in 6 short days?

klutedavid said:

Did God take a day off during those six days?

Click to expand...

Not during the period of the creation of the heavens and the earth, no.

BTW, this sounds like an argument for following God's example which would also have man bound to a requirement to keep the Sabbath as well as work for 6 full days. If that's where we're going with this it's okay by me.

klutedavid said:

Exodus 20:8-10
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.

Click to expand...

I'm afraid there are no underscore marks in the scriptures. The thrust of the commandment is to remember and observe the Sabbath. No credible religious source has ever taught otherwise.

Cshuffle777 said:

The Sabbath was made for man and therefore could not have been in effect in eternity past before the creation of the world. Christ was not human in that age.

Click to expand...

There are no time intervals in eternity, no start and no finish. Thus, to say, 'eternity past', creates a conflict within the definition of eternity.

If the sabbath was made for man, then why did God rest on the seventh day?

If Christ did not have a human form before the incarnation, then whose image have we been created in?

SDANet is a 20+ year-old website that was originally intended to serve as a place for Adventists to meet and discuss various issues. The forum deteriorated into a gossip mill and now the site serves mainly as an archive of scholarly articles and books accross the spectrum of doctrinal beliefs. It has no official capacity whatsoever in determining church doctrine. It is a self-supporting ministry that does not speak for the church.

Click to expand...

I wonder what the SDAnet would think of your reply in their capacity, as seventh day proponents?

The law of the ten commandments was not in effect before the creation of the world.

Click to expand...

God's nature The Sabbath was very likely unnecessary and so was the commandment prohibiting adultery since neither God nor the angels married or gave in marriage, nor did they procreate. The angels were once oblivious to the law of God because before the rebellion of Lucifer it never occurred to any of them to deviate from the true law which constitutes the character of God: Other-centered, self-sacrificing love to God and neighbor.

The Sabbath is God’s perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people.

Click to expand...

If that covenant is eternal, then the sabbath has always been in force.

If the ten commandments reflect God's nature, then they have always existed?

I thought the Ten commandments were divided into the first four, loving God. And the following six concerned with loving others, i.e., 'self-sacrificing love to God and neighbor'.

The law of the ten commandments was that which constitutes the character of God in Christ as the 2nd Adam.

Click to expand...

I do not see the Christ as a second Adam. Christ was God. Christ was not created. Christ was from above and not a direct descendant of Adam. Christ was born into the house of David, and that was a supernatural event. Christ took on our human form but came from above.

No, it really never was documented in Scripture that Abraham kept the Sabbath. There is no reason to believe that he didn't, since it was instituted at the creation of the world. Mrs. White emphatically claims he did, but I burden no one to rest their doctrinal positions upon her writings, as I do not myself.

Click to expand...

You are in conflict with the SDA interpretation of the scripture. You can bet your life that Adam and Eve were bound by the sabbath, so was Abraham.

Are we to believe that the mercy and redemptive efforts of Lucifer and the fallen angels were exhausted in 6 short days?

Click to expand...

I will ignore this one.

BTW, this sounds like an argument for following God's example which would also have man bound to a requirement to keep the Sabbath as well as work for 6 full days. If that's where we're going with this it's okay by me.

Click to expand...

Well that is what the verse I quoted states.

I'm afraid there are no underscore marks in the scriptures. The thrust of the commandment is to remember and observe the Sabbath. No credible religious source has ever taught otherwise.

Click to expand...

No not really, since it does mention six days work then a rest day.

klutedavid said:

You were never taught that God's laws, the ten words, are His very nature?

That the heavens and the earth have always honored the Sabbath?

Click to expand...

Nope.

klutedavid said:

What was the turning point for you, the trigger that started your research. Into whether the SDA's interpretation of the scripture was correct?

Click to expand...

In Nashville back in 1970 I discussed the law with a man from the Church of Christ from about midnight, till 4 am. He showed me many scriptures about grace I had never seen and it was like a light bulb turned on in my brain, and I saw that we not under the law but are under grace. But it wasn't for another 40 years that I learned the true meaning of grace.

Word and Spirit said:

In Nashville back in 1970 I discussed the law with a man from the Church of Christ from about midnight, till 4 am. He showed me many scriptures about grace I had never seen and it was like a light bulb turned on in my brain, and I saw that we not under the law but are under grace. But it wasn't for another 40 years that I learned the true meaning of grace.

Click to expand...

An excellent revelation you received. A true light bulb moment.

Zechariah 4:7
What are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become a plain; and he will bring forth the top stone with shouts of “Grace, grace to it!

klutedavid said:

There are no time intervals in eternity, no start and no finish. Thus, to say, 'eternity past', creates a conflict within the definition of eternity.

Click to expand...

There may be no linear or one-dimensional measurements of time as in our shphere, but Jehovah is a God of order, and it seems doubtful that time in eternity goes unmarked, if for no other reason, for the sake of the angels. More importantly, I am aware of no sriptural evidence for your claim.

klutedavid said:

If the sabbath was made for man, then why did God rest on the seventh day?

Click to expand...

To enjoy His handiwork and to set an example for man.

klutedavid said:

If Christ did not have a human form before the incarnation, then whose image have we been created in?

Click to expand...

The presence and image of God is multi-faceted. There are many ways in which we have the imprint of His image. If Christ had a human form before the incarnation, then what does "incarnation" even mean?

klutedavid said:

I wonder what the SDAnet would think of your reply in their capacity, as seventh day proponents?

Click to expand...

Probably not much. They are practically defunct. I believe their history is viewable in the WayBackMachine at The Internet archive. Yes, I just checked: (Linked here ----->) Wayback Machine Be aware some links within their snapshots will be dead.

klutedavid said:

If that covenant is eternal, then the sabbath has always been in force.

Click to expand...

This seems to be a statement claiming God has no prerogative to initiate anything at a point in time and then call it "eternal" going forward. This might be a tad presumptuous.

klutedavid said:

If the ten commandments reflect God's nature, then they have always existed?

Click to expand...

The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. This is the earliest point in time in which He is referred to as human (He was slain as a human being and was never an actual lamb, in the animal sense). Before the human race was born there was simply no need for the Sabbath or adultery commandments. The nature or character of God is most plainly addressed in the two great commandments, upon which the ten hang, but are not above.

klutedavid said:

I thought the Ten commandments were divided into the first four, loving God. And the following six concerned with loving others, i.e., 'self-sacrificing love to God and neighbor'.

Click to expand...

Correct but, again, before earth and man they would have had orphaned parts in the Sabbath and adultery commandments.

klutedavid said:

I do not see the Christ as a second Adam. Christ was God. Christ was not created. Christ was from above and not a direct descendant of Adam. Christ was born into the house of David, and that was a supernatural event. Christ took on our human form but came from above.

Click to expand...

No doubt, in Christ dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, but Scripture also sees Christ as the 2nd Adam:
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. (1 Corinthians 15:45-47)
It's all quite orthodox, actually. Google it to see the prevalence.

klutedavid said:

You are in conflict with the SDA interpretation of the scripture.

Click to expand...

No. I'm simply agreeing with @Word and Spirit that there is no scriptural record which states specifcally that Abraham kept the Sabbath or was commanded to do so. I believe He did and was. But my belief is based on somewhat circumstantial evidence as it pertains to Scripture alone.

klutedavid said:

You can bet your life that Adam and Eve were bound by the sabbath, so was Abraham.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't do that, but I do believe so, yes.

klutedavid said:

I will ignore this one.

Click to expand...

I respect your right to abstain.

klutedavid said:

Well that is what the verse I quoted states.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure exactly which verse you're referring to but the universe wasn't created at the same time as the "heavens and the earth."

klutedavid said:

No not really, since it does mention six days work then a rest day.

Click to expand...

I can't base a doctrine upon a mention that no credible religious source has ever taught constitutes a doctrine.

HARK! said:

This video alone makes a convincing argument. I'm not yet convinced; but it does make a convincing argument.

Click to expand...

Brother, happy Sabbath! The evidence continues to accumulate, soon there will be no excuse to follow a man-made tradition in contradiction to the word of God. Every morning, after the dew, collected was the manna before the sun melted it. Keep in mind that the Lord does not say that manna would last 24 hours, what God says is that it lasts “that day”. To be clear, if you picked it up in the middle of the day, it would last half a day. Picked up was it in the morning and would last until the next morning, making “that day” from morning to morning.


On the day of preparation, before the Sabbath, they must prepare twice as much. Unlike other days, it would not spoil after the “morning”. The “morning” that separated the six-day of preparation from the seventh-day of the Sabbath established in Eden.


This rule above clearly states that one day ends in the morning as in Genesis. Every other day, beside the preparation day, the manna would spoil after the morning, clearly indicating the end of the day as in Genesis in the morning. During the 40 years in the desert, God emphasized the seventh day of the week from morning to morning and not the local Sabbath in Israel that He taught from evening to evening. Passover and manna confirm that the first day in Genesis is from the first light to light again in the morning.


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

HARK! said:

Let's be clear.


(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

How did King Abimelech know that adultery was wrong? Did Abraham tell him?

Click to expand...

To me going into Hagar was adultery.