The Ghastly Eternal Torment Dogma

Major1

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This has been a rather lengthy battle to date. The biggest problem with the big three (FL< COA and SS) is that they take passages and then pull them out of their contexts and then insisiting that they apply to every sing le individual. Even animals and viruses and bacteria. According to them Covid -19 will be redeemed and somehiw no longer evil to man!

You are correct.

My guess is that because of their obscure, non Biblical opinions, they probably are not allowed in a church to teach this stuff so they hang out here on the net.

The troubling thing to me is how easy they manipulate Scriptures so as to make them fit an agenda which does not exist.

It is exactly like "FESTAVUS".
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
Dear Saint Paul: please be advised you have led us into a dream.
“Having made known unto us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His own will…”

Your proof text does not say what you think it does.
Note the phrases "all thing in Christ,""even in Him," and "In whom we have obtained."
This does not say "He might gather together in one all things."<period> And it does not say "He might gather all thing "into" Christ."It says "all things in Christ" To be gathered one must be "in Christ."
Next phrase ""even all things in Him." It does not say "all things 'into' Him." To be gathered one must already be "in Him."
Last phrase "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance," Those "in Him" have already obtained an inheritance.
 
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FineLinen

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Your error is that you are misreading Paul. He is saying in Greek that the all things IN CHRIST will be gathered into one! In Christ is a very specific Pauline term. It does not include those who die apart from being in christ! Which is what followers of Jesus call the lost!

Sorry Noli: Our God is the Source, Guide & Goal of the all/ the ta panta. Yes, He is the Author and Finisher of the all, nothing, but nothing escapes His grasp!

#1 -Rom. 11:36

"From Him everything comes, through Him everything exists and in Him everything ends."

Ta pavnte= the all things.

Ta pavnte = in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the universe. Of everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming. From Him ta pavnte comes, through Him ta pavnte exists, and in Him ta pavnte ends.

#2. -Eph. 1:-

"He has made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. And you too, who in Him were made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will."

The all things in the heavens, the all things in the earth, and you who once were dead in trespasses and sins. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one, the ta pavnte en/in Christ.

Ta pavnte = in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the universe. Of everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.

#3 -Col. 1:20

"God purposed through Him to reconcile the universe to Himself, making peace through His blood...to reconcile to Himself through Him, I say, things on earth and things in heaven. And you..."

The all things (the ta pavnte) in the heavens, the all things (the ta pavnte) in the earth, and you who once were dead in trespasses and sins. God has purposed to reconcile the universe (the ta pavnte) to Himself. The ta pavnte/ the all, encompasses the ta pavnte on the earth and the ta pavnte in the heavens. The ta pavnte= the all, the whole enchilada.

Ta pavnte = in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the universe. Of everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.
 
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FineLinen

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Colossians 3:8 stands out at once. Here Paul says:
"But now ye also put off all these (ta panta); anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth."

This passage shows clearly what Paul meant when he used the phrase ta panta.

Nope! Your reference does not use ta panta, but rather the other nasty word pas.
 
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Saint Steven

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Of course it does not take a degree in Rocket science to grasp the fact that Satan and the A/C and False Prophet will not and can not be restored in the "ALL" in the LOF.
Do you think "ALL" only means most? (not all)
Do you think God grades on a curve? (according to our works)
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
Sorry Noli: Our God is the Source, Guide & Goal of the all/ the ta panta. Yes, He is the Author and Finisher of the all, nothing, but nothing escapes His grasp!
#1 -Rom. 11:36
"From Him everything comes, through Him everything exists and in Him everything ends."
Ta pavnte= the all things.
Ta pavnte = in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the universe. Of everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming. From Him ta pavnte comes, through Him ta pavnte exists, and in Him ta pavnte ends.
#2. -Eph. 1:-
"He has made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. And you too, who in Him were made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will."
The all things in the heavens, the all things in the earth, and you who once were dead in trespasses and sins. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one, the ta pavnte en/in Christ.
Ta pavnte = in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the universe. Of everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.
#3 -Col. 1:20
"God purposed through Him to reconcile the universe to Himself, making peace through His blood...to reconcile to Himself through Him, I say, things on earth and things in heaven. And you..."
The all things (the ta pavnte) in the heavens, the all things (the ta pavnte) in the earth, and you who once were dead in trespasses and sins. God has purposed to reconcile the universe (the ta pavnte) to Himself. The ta pavnte/ the all, encompasses the ta pavnte on the earth and the ta pavnte in the heavens. The ta pavnte= the all, the whole enchilada.
Ta pavnte = in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the universe. Of everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.
The perpetual UR quoting of proof texts out-of-context. But even as the verse is quoted here it does not say what they claim.

"The all things in the heavens, the all things in the earth, and you who once were dead in trespasses and sins. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one, the ta pavnte en/in Christ."
This vs. does NOT say "He might gather together in one, ta pante[the all]<period>" And it does not say "He might gather together in one, ta pante 'into' Christ."
It says "He might gather together in one, ta pante en/in Christ." "ALL in Christ." Being in Christ is the requirement for being gathered. Those who are in sin are not in Christ. Those who are in the flesh are not in Christ.

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
NOT “in Christ” no redemption.
Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
"Walk after the flesh" NOT “in Christ” there is condemnation.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
NOT “in Christ” NOT free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
NOT “in Christ” NOT a member of the body.
1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
NOT “in Christ” NO sanctification or redemption.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
NOT “in Christ” old things NOT passed away
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
NOT “in Christ” NOT children of God.
Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
NOT “in Christ” NOT "made nigh", still far off.
2 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
NOT “in Christ” NO promise of life.
2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
NOT “in Christ” NO salvation.
2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
NOT “in Christ” NO salvation.



 
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Major1

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Do you think "ALL" only means most? (not all)
Do you think God grades on a curve? (according to our works)

Steve...…"ALL" means "ALL" who come by faith in Jesus Christ for the forgivness of their sins.

DO YOU think that Jesus was lieing when He said clearly in John 3:16...……...
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Steve, “Do you believe in Santa Claus?”. “Do you believe in aliens?”
But the question “Do you believe in Jesus?” is asking far more than “Do you believe that Jesus Christ existed/exists?” The true meaning of the question is “Do you believe Jesus Christ is who the Bible says He is, and are you trusting Him as your Savior?”

"ALL" who trust Christ is the "ALL" that then are the Children of God and it is those who will spend eternity in heaven with Him.

How could God have said that so as to make it easier for you to understand?????


Actually there really is no need for debate as your BEST friend has already said and I agreed with him that...……….
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!!

FINELINEN SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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No excepts: all radically means all.

The only excepts are a synecdoche or metonomy.
So you are telling me that every single Pharisee/Saducee, every single Roman, every single Greek, every single Jew, every single Samaritan etc ....... were ALL baptized by John and confessed their sins ?

Mark 1:4-5
John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5 And all the country of Judea was going out to him, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.
 
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FineLinen

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So you are telling me that every single Pharisee/Saducee, every single Roman, every single Greek, every single Jew, every single Samaritan etc ....... were ALL baptized by John and confessed their sins ?

My friend I am telling you nothing. I declare the all of ta panta, and the radical all of pas, will be consummated in the Living God!

Source, Guide, Goal of the all.
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
No excepts: all radically means all.
The only excepts are a synecdoche or metonomy.
Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
NOT “in Christ” NOT gathered together in one.
Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
NOT “in Christ” NO redemption.
Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
“Walk after the flesh” NOT “in Christ” there is condemnation.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
NOT “in Christ” NOT free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
NOT “in Christ” NOT a member of the body.
1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
NOT “in Christ” NO sanctification, NO redemption.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
NOT “in Christ” old things NOT passed away NOT made new.
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
NOT “in Christ” NOT children of God.
Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
NOT “in Christ” NOT ”made nigh” still far off.
2 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
NOT “in Christ” NO promise of life.
2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
NOT “in Christ” NO salvation.
2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
NOT “in Christ” NO salvation.
 
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My friend I am telling you nothing. I declare the all of ta panta, and the radical all of pas, will be consummated in the Living God!

Source, Guide, Goal of the all.
Which is false as my last two posts have proven from scripture your view is unbiblical and based upon emotions and human understanding. You are projecting your "feelings" onto scripture rather that forming your doctrine objectively from the plain meaning derived from scripture.

1-All can only have a specific or universal meaning according to the context in which it is being used in scripture.

2- Eternal means never ending. Just as Eternal life never ends neither does eternal punishment. You cannot have one without the other.

hope this helps !!!
 
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FineLinen

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Eternal means never ending. Just as Eternal life never ends neither does eternal punishment. You cannot have one without the other.

hope this helps !!!

It is always exciting having individuals saying how "simple" the mysteries of the God of Glory are.

Can you tell us what is before aionios?

“In hope of aionios life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before aionios began.”
 
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The ghastly unbiblcal doctrine of universalism. It makes Gods word and promises out to be a lie. The vanity of human reasoning and logic. As Paul points out the things of God are foolishness to those without His Spirit guiding them in 1 Cor 2. Since things of an eternal nature are spiritual they must be spiritually appraised which is not by human wisdom and reasoning.

hope this helps !!!
 
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So you are telling me that every single Pharisee/Saducee, every single Roman, every single Greek, every single Jew, every single Samaritan etc ....... were ALL baptized by John and confessed their sins ?

Mark 1:4-5
John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5 And all the country of Judea was going out to him, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.

He will not admit it, but YES he is. They have to as their theology demands it.
 
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Major1

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It is always exciting having individuals saying how "simple" the mysteries of the God of Glory are.

Can you tell us what is before aionios?

“In hope of aionios life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before aionios began.”

I can tell everyone what you have already said about this...…..
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!!

FINELINEN SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".
 
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Major1

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No excepts: all radically means all.

The only excepts are a synecdoche or metonomy.

But God said in John 3:16...…….
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 
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He will not admit it, but YES he is. They have to as their theology demands it.
Yes thats what happens when one reads their doctrines into scripture which is eisegesis whereas reading Scripture and interpreting it in its context is exegesis which results in sound doctrine.
 
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Yes thats what happens when one reads their doctrines into scripture which is eisegesis whereas reading Scripture and interpreting it in its context is exegesis which results in sound doctrine.

Correct. When a man falls in love with an idea/opinion he will then search the Scriptures to try and make anything he can find fit what it is he has convinced himself is the truth.

I call that "Cafeteria Christianity". You go down the line, picking and choosing what YOU like, and rejecting what you do not like and what you like you make into a personal doctrine.

Of course it is only a doctrine to the person who makes it.
 
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