Chistians, how do you conclude Jesus is god?

Pavel Mosko

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Even if I concede that Jesus said that he was god and that he performed all the prophesies and miracles described in the bible... that would make him pretty special, but how does that prove that he was the human incarnation of the creator of the universe? Isn't this a god-of-the-gaps argument... you can't explain something so you conclude that he must be god because you can't think of a better explanation? And according to the bible, Pharohs magicians were able to turn their staves to snakes, which is just as remarkable as any of the miracles that Jesus performed. This means there are humans with supernatural powers out there who obviously aren't divine. So why believe Jesus was divine?

To really understand the Christian position you got to understand the ancient Jewish culture and heritage. This is not just one of those logic puzzle paradigms that atheists are fond of, but more like something out of a college or graduate school level Literature and/or philosophy class.


Besides that you get into history, especially ancient Jewish history etc. We get into various miracles of Jesus etc. and those things etc, tend to foot note various ancient Jewish prophecies, terms etc.


Here is just one example.

I am (biblical term) - Wikipedia.
 
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Silmarien

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Even if I concede that Jesus said that he was god and that he performed all the prophesies and miracles described in the bible... that would make him pretty special, but how does that prove that he was the human incarnation of the creator of the universe? Isn't this a god-of-the-gaps argument... you can't explain something so you conclude that he must be god because you can't think of a better explanation? And according to the bible, Pharohs magicians were able to turn their staves to snakes, which is just as remarkable as any of the miracles that Jesus performed. This means there are humans with supernatural powers out there who obviously aren't divine. So why believe Jesus was divine?

Personally, I approach it the other way around. My primary interest with Christian theology itself, and a doctrine like the Incarnation seemed compelling to me--I'm not sure how we could know what it really meant for God to be good without an actual portrait of what that would mean in human terms.

My deistic-leaning theology had a Christ-shaped hole in it, and there was really only one thing that actually fit it, so whether he actually claimed to be God, and whether the whole idea made any sense in the Jewish context, was what I was working on. I concluded yes and yes (if a bit veiled and ambiguous), so... that was that. The miracles didn't have all that much to do with it.

That said, I've seen it argued that the miracles that really demonstrate a claim to divinity involve having power over wind and water, since that was seen as God's sovereignty within Judaism. (See, for example, a couple paragraphs here.) So if you're going to make comparisons with Exodus, the one that would be more applicable is the parting of the Red Sea compared to something like walking on water or calming the storm.
 
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royal priest

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That makes no sense. Turning a stave to a snake means you turn a piece of wood into living cells, organs, bone, nerves and then you add life force. When you raise the dead, you only need to add the life force because the other things already exist.
The point is that God, the Father, raised Jesus from dead and thereby vindicating the claims Jesus made concerning Himself including His claims to being one with God. But, not only did God vindicate Jesus' claims, but also the OT claims of Jesus' deity.
Acts of the Apostles 13:32-35
“We preach to you the good news of the promise made to the fathers, that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, ‘YOU ARE MY SON; TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU.’ “As for the fact that He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: ‘I WILL GIVE YOU THE HOLY and SURE blessings OF DAVID.’ “Therefore He also says in another Psalm, ‘YOU WILL NOT ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.’
 
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zippy2006

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Yes I am but if the there are really humans with supernatural powers like pharaohs magicians, would you also believe them if they made the same claims as Jesus did? If they are under the power of Satan, don't you think they could be quite convincing?

The simple fact of the matter is that Pharaoh's magicians never claimed to be God. Neither did the Buddha, or Muhammad, or Socrates. I think Lewis' point is important.

Isn't this a god-of-the-gaps argument... you can't explain something so you conclude that he must be god because you can't think of a better explanation?

No, I don't think so. Inference to the best explanation isn't necessarily "God of the gaps." When you infer that someone who has power over creation and claims to be God is in fact God, it is much different than coming across a strange phenomenon and presuming that it must be God's doing.

And according to the bible, Pharohs magicians were able to turn their staves to snakes, which is just as remarkable as any of the miracles that Jesus performed. This means there are humans with supernatural powers out there who obviously aren't divine. So why believe Jesus was divine?

I don't think any isolated miracle functions as a logical demonstration of something like the claim to be God. You are right there. Yet the indications pointing towards Jesus' divinity aren't isolated miracles, nor are they attempting a strict logical demonstration.

The difficulty with your position is that it seems to be unfalsifiable. Have you constructed an approach where no possibility of God showing himself to be incarnate exists? Does your worldview reject that possibility from the outset? If not, then name the criteria that, if met, would be sufficient for you to believe that someone was in fact God incarnate.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Even if I concede that Jesus said that he was god and that he performed all the prophesies and miracles described in the bible... that would make him pretty special, but how does that prove that he was the human incarnation of the creator of the universe? Isn't this a god-of-the-gaps argument... you can't explain something so you conclude that he must be god because you can't think of a better explanation? And according to the bible, Pharohs magicians were able to turn their staves to snakes, which is just as remarkable as any of the miracles that Jesus performed. This means there are humans with supernatural powers out there who obviously aren't divine. So why believe Jesus was divine?
In general, as a starting point.

People come to God when they believe that (1) He exists and (2) that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

It kind of goes in steps where one comes to a realization that there (1) is a creator, and (2) He is benevolent, and (3) that Jesus is the picture of that benevolent creator.

The overall process is described like childbirth (being born again) so it can take a long time.

The things that seem to be accepted "without explanation" are understood through the bond of trust or faith that is formed between an individual and God during this process.
 
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coffee4u

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So why believe Jesus was divine?

When someone claims to be God there are 3 basic choices, 1 it is true, 2 its a lie 3 they are mad.
There is no option of him just being a 'good teacher' because a good teacher would not have accepted worship, called himself equal to God or be charged with blasphemy.
He appeared sane and well educated and many people were eyewitnesses to what he said and did.
If it is merely a lie it is unlikely someone would want to die a gruesome death over it.
As a Christian, I have faith in God and his word and God's word tells me that Christ was divine, that he was God come in the flesh who died and was resurrected back to life.


Jesus accepted honour and worship that only God should receive.
Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."
If he was simply a great man he would never have accepted this.

He even told Satan,
Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'

So he taught that only God should be worshiped, but accepted worship.

After the crucifixion Thomas doubted that Jesus was alive. ‘I won’t believe unless I can put my finger into his nail scars.’

John 20:26–29
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Then there are times Jesus declared that he is one with the Father.

John 10:30
30 I and the Father are one.”
Which is the charge they held against him, blasphemy.
‘For a good work we do not stone you, but for blasphemy; and because you, being a man, make yourself out to be God’


The trial against Jesus was based upon blasphemy. Mark 14:60-64
Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”


62 “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

63 The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked. 64 “You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?”
They all condemned him as worthy of death.

There is so much more to it than just that. As was said above, it is everything. I am just picking this one area.
 
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Paulus59

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Even if I concede that Jesus said that he was god and that he performed all the prophesies and miracles described in the bible... that would make him pretty special, but how does that prove that he was the human incarnation of the creator of the universe? Isn't this a god-of-the-gaps argument... you can't explain something so you conclude that he must be god because you can't think of a better explanation? And according to the bible, Pharohs magicians were able to turn their staves to snakes, which is just as remarkable as any of the miracles that Jesus performed. This means there are humans with supernatural powers out there who obviously aren't divine. So why believe Jesus was divine?
I believe Jesus is divine because his words and his righteousness speak to my heart through his Gospel and his spirit confirms to my spirit that he is God and I believe (Romans 8:16). This is a profound life transforming experience. As for Pharaoh's magicians all their magic came to nothing in the end and they lay dead in their graves for eternity.

******************************************************

Question: "How were Pharaoh’s magicians able to perform miracles?"

Answer:
The story of Pharaoh’s magicians can be found in Exodus 7–8, when Moses and Aaron confront the Pharaoh in Egypt, demanding that he free God’s people, the Israelites, from slavery. Moses and Aaron performed miracles to confirm their message, and on three occasions Pharaoh’s magicians were able to duplicate the miracles.

God spoke to Moses through a burning bush and charged him to speak to Pharaoh on His behalf (Exodus 3). During that commissioning, God granted Moses the ability to perform miracles (Exodus 4:21). Knowing that Pharaoh would demand a sign, God instructed Moses and Aaron to throw down Aaron’s staff upon their first meeting with the ruler. Aaron did so, and his staff turned into a snake. Pharaoh immediately summoned his magicians, who were able to turn their own staffs into snakes. In what must have been an ominous sign for Pharaoh’s court, Aaron’s snake devoured the magicians’ snakes (see Exodus 7:8–13).

Twice more, Pharaoh’s magicians were able to perform miracles to match the signs of Moses and Aaron. The first plague that Moses called down upon the Egyptians was a plague of blood. The magicians were also able to turn water to blood as Moses had done to the Nile River (Exodus 7:14–22). The second plague was a horde of frogs sent among the Egyptian people, and the magicians summoned their own frogs as well—adding to the problem rather than alleviating it (Exodus 8:1–7). After this, however, the magicians’ power stopped, as they were unable to replicate any further plagues, and they acknowledged they were witnessing “the finger of God” in Moses’ signs (verse 19).

But how were the magicians of Egypt able to perform the miracles in the first place? There are two possible answers to this question. The first is that the magicians received their power from Satan. Although not as powerful as God, Satan, formerly one of God’s highest angels, has the power to deceive, emulate miracles, and even tell the future with a certain degree of accuracy (see Luke 4; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Acts 16:16–18). Satan may have given Pharaoh’s magicians the power to duplicate some of the signs God performed through Moses and Aaron.

The second option, and the more probable, is that the magicians simply created illusions. Through sleight-of-hand and conjurer’s tricks, they deceived their audience into believing that they were performing the same miracles as Moses and Aaron. The first illusion, that of turning the staffs into snakes, may have been performed by snake charming, which was widely practiced in ancient Egypt (and even some today). There was a way in which snake charmers could cause a snake to stiffen like a staff and relax on command. Since the magicians were summoned after Aaron threw down his own staff, they would have had time to prepare the trick in advance. As for turning the Nile to blood, only dye is needed to make water run red. The frogs may be a more complicated illusion, but, just as modern illusionists can pull rabbits out of hats, Pharaoh’s magicians could have summoned frogs.

Whether they were creating illusions or performing actual miracles, the Egyptian magicians were eventually stymied by God’s power. They were unable to summon gnats (Exodus 8:16–19), turn the sky dark (Exodus 10:21–23), call down hailstones (Exodus 9:22–26), or duplicate any of the other plagues. God’s power is great enough to defeat both man’s conniving and Satan’s power with ease.

***************************************************

Why do we have to prove this to you anyway?...........Aren't you an atheist?
 
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Tolworth John

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You don't think turning a piece of wood into a living snake is as impressive as raising the dead? I think its even more impressive than breathing life back into a pre-existing dead body

Interesting that you believe the Bible where you want to! What of where these same ' magicians ' could not do what Moses did and said that ' This was the finger of God!'

Why won't you believe there testimony?


Even if he was raised from the dead, how doesn't that prove he is the creator of the universe?

No you are right just rising from the dead after a brutal execution is a common accurance.
What makes it more challenging is that he predicted that he would rise from the dead.

You do accept that historians accept that Jesus did live, was exceuted and that his tomb was empty.

when believers of other religions claim they arrived at their beliefs through revelation from their gods

Various reason, the proven historical details, accuracy of the records but primarily because All without exception require the worshipper to placate the object of worship.
Only Christianity say you do nothing, just decieve salvation.
That difference is major and highly significant.
 
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com7fy8

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Pharohs magicians were able to turn their staves to snakes, which is just as remarkable as any of the miracles that Jesus performed.
I'll answer this in a separate post.

I think healing a maimed person is more remarkable than turning a stick into a snake. But I do understand that changing a physical stick could take the same miraculous ability as changing a physical body. So, I guess you have a point :)

But I see a difference. Healing a body is a miracle of compassion. And it can make a major good change in a person's life. I don't think we could say this about turning a stick into a snake.
 
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com7fy8

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there are humans with supernatural powers out there who obviously aren't divine. So why believe Jesus was divine?
And Elijah did great wonders, as a man of God. So, yes, I see your point.

I could use the Bible to argue around Jesus being God.

But there are things that to me mean Jesus is God as the Son.

The Son has the same nature as His Father > divine.

"God is love" (in 1 John 4:8&16). We see how God wants to share His very own good with us > Jesus has claimed this in prayer, Himself > how our Father has given His own glory to us > John 17:22 > and loves us even as He loves His own Son Jesus > John 17:26.

This is how real love does things > giving anyone the very best possible.

And in truly loving we give our own selves. So, God giving us His own Son means He has given us His own self as the Person of Jesus Christ. God has not sent us some second-best being or inferior blessing, but He has sent us His very own best > Jesus.

And Jesus is so pleasing to our Father. God, I consider, could not be satisfied perfectly by a being less than God is in love and goodness and beauty and glory. And our Father says how He is "well pleased" with His own Son Jesus > Matthew 3:17 and 17:5, Mark 1:11, Luke 3:22, 2 Peter 1:17.

And this is important for application > we need to become like Jesus in order to be truly pleasing to our Father. In order to truly love Him, we need to become like Jesus and not only do things as gestures in order to get His favor.

Jesus is God's standard of comparison, then; He is changing us to become like His own Son > "that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (in Romans 8:29) I see from this, how God would not have a standard less than Himself and how He is. So, this supports, too, that Jesus is God . . . as the Son of God.
 
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Lukaris

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I believe the Lord Jesus Christ is God, the Son by His gift of the salvation of our souls through His birth, life, death, resurrection, & Ascension by taking upon Himself everything to free us from suffering & have everlasting life.

I believe it is by Him that we know God in truth as the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit ( John 14:15-18). He shows us how life was meant to be by His commandments ( see Matthew 19:16-19, Matthew 7:1-12, etc.). I believe He is the master of life ( Colossians 1:15-17) & the testimony of St. Paul regarding the resurrection is one major example ( 1 Corinthians 15 ).

I believe all sense of fairness & justice is in the Lord & He will be merciful to those He knows as His ( some who may not realize in their earthly life but He does as per Matthew 25:31-46, John 5:22-30, John 3:16-22 etc.).

This is a matter of the heart & trust (faith etc.). On a lesser, daily level I understand this as a sensible way to live life.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Even if I concede that Jesus said that he was god and that he performed all the prophesies and miracles described in the bible... that would make him pretty special, but how does that prove that he was the human incarnation of the creator of the universe? Isn't this a god-of-the-gaps argument... you can't explain something so you conclude that he must be god because you can't think of a better explanation? And according to the bible, Pharohs magicians were able to turn their staves to snakes, which is just as remarkable as any of the miracles that Jesus performed. This means there are humans with supernatural powers out there who obviously aren't divine. So why believe Jesus was divine?

I mean simply put, we believe what Jesus said about Himself, we believe what the earliest followers of Jesus said about Him, and we believe what has been confessed and believed, passed down to us from that earliest generation of Christians.

Sure, maybe Jesus was actually an alien with superpowers, or an angel, or any number of things. But that isn't the received faith of the Christian Church. Alternative views of Jesus were consistently rejected in favor of what is known as the orthodox position, which is what became written down and confessed in the Nicene Creed.

While the Nicene Creed specifically arose in response to the views of Arius, it also reflects the response toward other historically rejected positions, such as Adoptionism and Sabellianism.

We don't believe Jesus is God because we lack imagination to reach another position; we believe Jesus is God because this is consistently the consensus of faith we see from about as early as we can get in the history of Christianity.

The earliest Christian writings we have are the letters of St. Paul, and even granting the argument that some of the Pauline epistles weren't Pauline, those Pauline epistles which are agreed by all scholars as authentically Paul certainly demonstrate a high Christology, where Jesus is regarded as truly divine. For example, in his epistle to the Christian church in Philippi, Paul writes (Philippians 2:6) that Jesus, through in the form of God (ὃς ἐν μορφῇ θεοῦ, hos en morphe theou), did not regard being God's equal (τὸ εἶναι ἴσα θεῷ, to einai isa theo) something to exploit. Paul continues by making an allusion to the Prophet Isaiah,

"so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord," - Philippians 2:10-11

"By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’" - Isaiah 45:23

For Paul, Jesus' identity with the God of Israel seems pretty strong; though Paul likewise makes a distinction between Jesus as the Son, and the Father; and yet both the Son and the Father (and the Holy Spirit) are consistently spoken of as equally Divine. God the Father is obviously God, and the Son is also God in some sense, and the Holy Spirit is likewise God in some sense.

We continue to see this language in other works of the New Testament, for example, in the fourth Gospel the author begins his prologue by speaking of someone called the Logos being in the beginning, in fact being in the beginning with God and is, somehow, Himself also God,

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." - John 1:1
"Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος"
"In [the] beginning was the Logos and the Logos was face-to-face the God and God was the Logos"

The structure of "and God was the Logos" might be a literal word-for-word rendering of kai theos en ho logos, but grammatically "God" is describing the Logos here, and so to make it make sense in English it is translated "and the Logos was God". Think of it kind of like saying, "Large was the dog", it's not the way we'd say this in English, we'd say "the dog was large", or "Bob's was the car", we'd say "The car was Bob's".

The anonymously written Epistle to the Hebrews likewise presents this Christology,

"but in these last days [God] has spoken to us by His Son, whom He apppointed the heir of all things, through whom also He created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the express imprint of His Hypostasis, and He upholds the universe by the word of His power" - Hebrews 1:2-3

The same author continues,

"But of the Son He says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of justice is the scepter of Your kingdom.'" - Hebrews 1:8

As we move beyond the time of when these were written, and into the early 2nd century, we have the witness of persons such as St. Ignatius of Antioch, the successor to the Apostles Peter and Paul as bishop of Antioch, writing to several churches as he was being taken as a prisoner to Rome.

In his epistle to the Church in Ephesus, Ignatius writes what was likely an example of an early Christian hymn,

"There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first passible and then impassible — even Jesus Christ our Lord." - St. Ignatius to the Ephesians, ch. 7

Throughout his letters he frequently says things like "Jesus Christ, our God", take for example these just from his letter to the Church in Rome,

"Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which has obtained mercy, through the majesty of the Most High Father, and Jesus Christ, His only-begotten Son; the Church which is beloved and enlightened by the will of Him that wills all things which are according to the love of Jesus Christ our God," - St. Ignatius to the Romans, ch. 1

"For our God, Jesus Christ, now that He is with the Father, is all the more revealed" - ibid. ch. 3

"I shall indeed be a man of God. Permit me to be an imitator of the suffering of my God." - ibid. ch. 6

We see in the writings of St. Justin, for example in his defense of the Christian religion addressed to Emperor Antonius Pius and the Roman Senate,

"the Father of the universe has a Son; who also, being the first-begotten Word of God, is even God." - St. Justin, the First Apology, ch. 63

And on and on it goes.

It is this repeated, continued confession going back to as far back as we can get in the history of Christianity of Jesus being understood to be God, that as the Son of God He is God, having Divinity with His Father. That's why Christians have and continue to believe this. It is as intrinsically fundamental to our religion as it can be, our bold confession, what makes Christianity Christianity at all, is that God became man.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Even if I concede that Jesus said that he was god and that he performed all the prophesies and miracles described in the bible... that would make him pretty special, but how does that prove that he was the human incarnation of the creator of the universe? Isn't this a god-of-the-gaps argument... you can't explain something so you conclude that he must be god because you can't think of a better explanation? And according to the bible, Pharohs magicians were able to turn their staves to snakes, which is just as remarkable as any of the miracles that Jesus performed. This means there are humans with supernatural powers out there who obviously aren't divine. So why believe Jesus was divine?

In the context of the Pharaoh's magicians, it's the contrast between them and Moses you should be paying attention to in literary terms, Pazuzil. Not them and Jesus.

Time to get with the hermeneutics program. So, no, it DOESN'T mean that there are humans with supernatural powers out there. What the Bible "means" is that some foolish people attempt to harness power that isn't theirs and which comes from one other source other than God.
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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Even if I concede that Jesus said that he was god and that he performed all the prophesies and miracles described in the bible... that would make him pretty special, but how does that prove that he was the human incarnation of the creator of the universe? Isn't this a god-of-the-gaps argument... you can't explain something so you conclude that he must be god because you can't think of a better explanation? And according to the bible, Pharohs magicians were able to turn their staves to snakes, which is just as remarkable as any of the miracles that Jesus performed. This means there are humans with supernatural powers out there who obviously aren't divine. So why believe Jesus was divine?
You might want to give consideration to the way that Jesus fulfilled so many prophecies from 400+ years before he was 'born'. I'm not sure Pharaoh's magicians were quite as impressive.

But that is only a pointer.

And so were the miracles. A lot of the miracles performed by Jesus can be found among the prophets, particularly Elijah. If I recall correctly the one exception is resurrecting oneself.

But it is clear that the early Christians thought there was a lot more to it as did the pagan magicians (Simon the Sorcerer wanting what the Christians had). And they also taught a lot more than Jesus proving himself by miracles. John's gospels call them 'signs', but a sign points to something beyond itself and it is the 'beyond itself' of Jesus that is the key thing.

The key teaching of Christianity is not the miraculous, it is the salvation provided by Jesus. The Pharaoh's Magicians couldn't provide that...
 
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mmarco

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The reason why I believe that Jesus is God is not based on Jesus' miracles; if it was so, my faith would depend on the reliability of the Gospels, while the reverse is true, i.e. I believe in the reliability of the Gospels because I believe that Jesus is God.
Actually, I find that the idea itself that God loves us so much that He chose to assume the human nature and accepted to suffer crucifission in order to save us, expresses such a high concept of God and divine love that it can comes only from God. In other words it is the christian concept of God's love that makes me believe that Christ is the true God.
 
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AmigodeJesus

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Even if I concede that Jesus said that he was god
There are many ways in which the conclusion is reached that Jesus is indeed God (not "god"), Deity, Uncreated Creator. The simple answer above them all, and more than likely to be rejected by yourself at the moment, is that ultimately it is and can only ever be by "faith" (scriptural definition (which includes implicit trust, based upon previously given evidences/demonstrations), not blind wishing, hoping, dreaming, imagining based upon nothing but sayso), see Romans 14:23 and Hebrews 11:6.

However, if you are really interested in the evidences beyond my present statement concerning "faith", then perhaps we could look at your statement of condition first, the "if".

Do you concede that Jesus said that he was "god" (sic)? If not, would you consider the evidences thereof first, and take one step, before making a leap of "faith"?
 
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Matthew C.

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The reason why I believe that Jesus is God is not based on Jesus' miracles; if it was so, my faith would depend on the reliability of the Gospels, while the reverse is true, i.e. I believe in the reliability of the Gospels because I believe that Jesus is God.
Actually, I find that the idea itself that God loves us so much that He chose to assume the human nature and accepted to suffer crucifission in order to save us, expresses such a high concept of God and divine love that it can comes only from God. In other words it is the christian concept of God's love that makes me believe that Christ is the true God.
How do you think he performed a miracle see if it were not from God? Or his miracles from evil or from God?

Do you personally know Jesus Christ?
 
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Matthew C.

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I mean simply put, we believe what Jesus said about Himself, we believe what the earliest followers of Jesus said about Him, and we believe what has been confessed and believed, passed down to us from that earliest generation of Christians.

Sure, maybe Jesus was actually an alien with superpowers, or an angel, or any number of things. But that isn't the received faith of the Christian Church. Alternative views of Jesus were consistently rejected in favor of what is known as the orthodox position, which is what became written down and confessed in the Nicene Creed.

While the Nicene Creed specifically arose in response to the views of Arius, it also reflects the response toward other historically rejected positions, such as Adoptionism and Sabellianism.

We don't believe Jesus is God because we lack imagination to reach another position; we believe Jesus is God because this is consistently the consensus of faith we see from about as early as we can get in the history of Christianity.

The earliest Christian writings we have are the letters of St. Paul, and even granting the argument that some of the Pauline epistles weren't Pauline, those Pauline epistles which are agreed by all scholars as authentically Paul certainly demonstrate a high Christology, where Jesus is regarded as truly divine. For example, in his epistle to the Christian church in Philippi, Paul writes (Philippians 2:6) that Jesus, through in the form of God (ὃς ἐν μορφῇ θεοῦ, hos en morphe theou), did not regard being God's equal (τὸ εἶναι ἴσα θεῷ, to einai isa theo) something to exploit. Paul continues by making an allusion to the Prophet Isaiah,

"so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord," - Philippians 2:10-11

"By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’" - Isaiah 45:23

For Paul, Jesus' identity with the God of Israel seems pretty strong; though Paul likewise makes a distinction between Jesus as the Son, and the Father; and yet both the Son and the Father (and the Holy Spirit) are consistently spoken of as equally Divine. God the Father is obviously God, and the Son is also God in some sense, and the Holy Spirit is likewise God in some sense.

We continue to see this language in other works of the New Testament, for example, in the fourth Gospel the author begins his prologue by speaking of someone called the Logos being in the beginning, in fact being in the beginning with God and is, somehow, Himself also God,

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." - John 1:1
"Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος"
"In [the] beginning was the Logos and the Logos was face-to-face the God and God was the Logos"

The structure of "and God was the Logos" might be a literal word-for-word rendering of kai theos en ho logos, but grammatically "God" is describing the Logos here, and so to make it make sense in English it is translated "and the Logos was God". Think of it kind of like saying, "Large was the dog", it's not the way we'd say this in English, we'd say "the dog was large", or "Bob's was the car", we'd say "The car was Bob's".

The anonymously written Epistle to the Hebrews likewise presents this Christology,

"but in these last days [God] has spoken to us by His Son, whom He apppointed the heir of all things, through whom also He created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the express imprint of His Hypostasis, and He upholds the universe by the word of His power" - Hebrews 1:2-3

The same author continues,

"But of the Son He says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of justice is the scepter of Your kingdom.'" - Hebrews 1:8

As we move beyond the time of when these were written, and into the early 2nd century, we have the witness of persons such as St. Ignatius of Antioch, the successor to the Apostles Peter and Paul as bishop of Antioch, writing to several churches as he was being taken as a prisoner to Rome.

In his epistle to the Church in Ephesus, Ignatius writes what was likely an example of an early Christian hymn,

"There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first passible and then impassible — even Jesus Christ our Lord." - St. Ignatius to the Ephesians, ch. 7

Throughout his letters he frequently says things like "Jesus Christ, our God", take for example these just from his letter to the Church in Rome,

"Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which has obtained mercy, through the majesty of the Most High Father, and Jesus Christ, His only-begotten Son; the Church which is beloved and enlightened by the will of Him that wills all things which are according to the love of Jesus Christ our God," - St. Ignatius to the Romans, ch. 1

"For our God, Jesus Christ, now that He is with the Father, is all the more revealed" - ibid. ch. 3

"I shall indeed be a man of God. Permit me to be an imitator of the suffering of my God." - ibid. ch. 6

We see in the writings of St. Justin, for example in his defense of the Christian religion addressed to Emperor Antonius Pius and the Roman Senate,

"the Father of the universe has a Son; who also, being the first-begotten Word of God, is even God." - St. Justin, the First Apology, ch. 63

And on and on it goes.

It is this repeated, continued confession going back to as far back as we can get in the history of Christianity of Jesus being understood to be God, that as the Son of God He is God, having Divinity with His Father. That's why Christians have and continue to believe this. It is as intrinsically fundamental to our religion as it can be, our bold confession, what makes Christianity Christianity at all, is that God became man.

-CryptoLutheran
Do you believe in Jesus Christ? Do you believe that it’s possible to lose your salvation?
 
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