No New Commandment

Dkh587

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Hark you are incorrect!

Teh OT passage was to love you rneighbor as yourself!

Jesus new command is to love one another as GOD loves us! so it is qualitatively ans quantitatively new!
There were similar commands in the Torah:

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Leviticus 19:33-34
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.

But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am YHWH your God.

it is quite reasonable to view these as the original basis for Messiah teaching his disciples to love each other as he loved them.

God freed the Israelites from oppression, and commanded them to not oppress foreigners living amongst them, because they were once foreigners.
 
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Mr. M

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Maybe you are correct about the meaning of the word “new”, however, there seems to be a difference, because Jesus says “…as I love you…”.
2 Corinthians 5:
17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
18
Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
Help with how this fits into the discussion please.
Is God in Christ reconciling the world to Himself refreshing love your neighbor?
Maybe have to take it further to:
Matthew 25:
37
Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’
40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
New and much improved. In fact, a day of judgment issue.
 
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HARK!

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The current covenant is called a "new and better" covenant. Due to the nature and quality of this covenant, sayings such as the following passage are possible.

Romans 13
8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely,

Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law.

All commandments regardless of covenant are summed up in one saying "Love your neighbor as yourself"

Since love does not work ill to His neighbor, it fulfills the requirements of the whole law. "The law that I give to you this day for your good" (Deuteronomy 10:13) was pointing to love one another, but those in charge missed the point in the application.

That doesn't answer my question. Your understanding of what Paul is trying to convey, contradicts Yahshua.

(CLV) MarK 12
28 And, approaching, one of the scribes, hearing them discussing, having perceived that He answered them ideally, inquires of Him, "What is the foremost precept of all? 29 Jesus answered him that "The foremost precept of all is: Hear, Israel! the Lord our God is one Lord." 30 And, You shall be loving the Lord God out of your whole heart, and out of your whole soul, and out of your whole comprehension, and out of your whole strength. This is the foremost precept."

Yahshua was quoting the Deuteronomy.
(CLV) DT 6:4
4 Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One. 5 So you will love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity. 6 These words which I am instructing you today will come to be in your heart.

John makes it clear how YHWH wants to be loved.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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(CLV) Jn 13:34
"A new precept am I giving to you, that you be loving one another; according as I love you, that you also be loving one another.
The interpretation of this verse largely depends on the meaning given to the καθὼς, if, as many translate it, "even as I loved you;" or, "after the manner and type of my love to you;" then an amply sufficient explanation arises of the novelty of the ἐντολή. So new a type of love is given that, as the Greek expositors generally have urged, there is a deeper intensity in the love than can be found in the Mosaic principle, Love thy neighbor as thyself." In this commandment, which embraces the whole law, self-love is assumed, and is made the standard for the love of neighbor. This ἐντολή, on the other hand, would be based on a new principle, and measured by a higher standard, and even mean more than love of self altogether. Christ's love to his disciples was self-abandoning, self-sacrificing love. Pulpit Commentary

They were to befriend each other in trials; be careful of each other's feelings and reputation; deny themselves to promote each other's welfare. See 1 John 3:23; 1 Thessalonians 4:9; 1 Peter 1:22; 2 Thessalonians 1:3; Galatians 6:2; 2 Peter 1:7. In all these places the command of Jesus is repeated or referred to, and it shows that the first disciples considered this indeed as the special law of Christ. This command or law was, moreover, new in regard to the extent to which this love was to be carried; for he immediately adds, "As I have loved you, that ye also love one another." His love for them was strong, continued, unremitting, and he was now about to show his love for them in death. John 15:13; "greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." So in 1 John 3:16 it is said that "we ought also to lay down our lives for the brethren." This was a new expression of love; and it showed the strength of attachment which we ought to have for Christians, and how ready we should be to endure hardships, to encounter dangers, and to practice self-denial, to benefit those for whom the Son of God laid down his life. Barnes

a new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another—This was the new feature of it. Christ's love to His people in giving His life a ransom for them was altogether new, and consequently as a Model and Standard for theirs to one another. It is not, however, something transcending the great moral law, which is "the old commandment" (1Jo 2:7, and see on [1849]Mr 12:28-33), but that law in a new and peculiar form. Hence it is said to be both new and old (1Jo 2:7, 8). JFB

its a higher calling from Jesus in this passage than what is required in the law.
 
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HARK!

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Until one experiences God’s Total Love, they cannot Love back.

This is moving off topic; but I find Yah's love to be a feedback loop. The more he gives me; the more I receive. The more I receive, the more I can give back, so the more I receive.
 
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Mr. M

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(CLV) MarK 12
28 And, approaching, one of the scribes, hearing them discussing, having perceived that He answered them ideally, inquires of Him, "What is the foremost precept of all? 29 Jesus answered him that "The foremost precept of all is: Hear, Israel! the Lord our God is one Lord." 30 And, You shall be loving the Lord God out of your whole heart, and out of your whole soul, and out of your whole comprehension, and out of your whole strength. This is the foremost precept."
Is love your neighbor as yourself sufficient for these, are is this not required?
Matthew 25:40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
 
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Mr. M

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The interpretation of this verse largely depends on the meaning given to the καθὼς, if, as many translate it, "even as I loved you;" or, "after the manner and type of my love to you;" then an amply sufficient explanation arises of the novelty of the ἐντολή. So new a type of love is given that, as the Greek expositors generally have urged, there is a deeper intensity in the love than can be found in the Mosaic principle, Love thy neighbor as thyself." In this commandment, which embraces the whole law, self-love is assumed, and is made the standard for the love of neighbor. This ἐντολή, on the other hand, would be based on a new principle, and measured by a higher standard, and even mean more than love of self altogether. Christ's love to his disciples was self-abandoning, self-sacrificing love. Pulpit Commentary

They were to befriend each other in trials; be careful of each other's feelings and reputation; deny themselves to promote each other's welfare. See 1 John 3:23; 1 Thessalonians 4:9; 1 Peter 1:22; 2 Thessalonians 1:3; Galatians 6:2; 2 Peter 1:7. In all these places the command of Jesus is repeated or referred to, and it shows that the first disciples considered this indeed as the special law of Christ. This command or law was, moreover, new in regard to the extent to which this love was to be carried; for he immediately adds, "As I have loved you, that ye also love one another." His love for them was strong, continued, unremitting, and he was now about to show his love for them in death. John 15:13; "greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." So in 1 John 3:16 it is said that "we ought also to lay down our lives for the brethren." This was a new expression of love; and it showed the strength of attachment which we ought to have for Christians, and how ready we should be to endure hardships, to encounter dangers, and to practice self-denial, to benefit those for whom the Son of God laid down his life. Barnes

its a higher calling from Jesus in this passage than what is required in the law.
John 15:13. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
1 John 3:16. Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and
we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
 
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Mr. M

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This is moving off topic; but I find Yah's love to be a feedback loop. The more he gives me; the more I receive. The more I receive, the more I can give back, so the more I receive.
Again, in this loop, how to you give back?
Matthew 25:40. And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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John 15:13. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
1 John 3:16
. Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and
we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
Yes its a higher calling for the follower of Christ to love his neighbor than what was required by the law.
 
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HARK!

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where I don't disagree with you, you're looking at the word in a vacuum, tearing it outside the context and isolating a very specific meaning and then forcing that meaning in the context.

further study of the biblical use of the word has a wider use that may agree with a more typical understanding of "new" or a relative understanding of "new" such as your example of a new house. one useful way is looking at how the word is contrasted and it's great when we have these examples as it shows us the ranges of the word. Matthew 13:52 has a great contrast of "new" (kaina - 3537) with "old" (palaia - G3820) in reference to new and old things. Now if we are do say that "kainos" explicitly means fresh, not new (in terms of age) then we are saying it's contrast "palaios" should show us something that is not fresh, stale perhaps or rotten. palaios could perhaps abstractly mean this but it is more link with typical concepts we think of with "old". in reference to treasure both are good but they are distinct too and not just the same thing and one made fresh. the new treasure is not pulled out from the old treasure, polished off and then declared "new" but rather the implications are new stock, different and not drawn from the old and where I don't reject it may still be an old item and have relative "newness" I think the meanings are about new/old as in age not as in newly discovered.

There are other contrasts too such as new and old wineskins (Matthew 9) and again kainos and palaios are contrasted. Also new and old clothing patches (Mark 2) and kainos and palaios are contrasted here too. What this is establishing is some consistency with how this word is contrasted, and its contrast helps define the word, especially for those who rely on lexicons to know the meanings of the words.

I do agree, it carries a greater concept of freshness which may have deeper spiritual insight that can be pulled out but context can shape the meaning too beyond it's isolated meanings (this happens in English all the time).

there are these more concrete concepts of this word being used where treasure, wineskins and patches of clothes can be "old" and can be "new" and reference an array of characteristics when they are being used these ways and I would argue go beyond how you are limiting the word and it does indeed cross over to typical concepts of "new" and "old" as is easily understood in the texts.

Now how this applies to the text maybe something different, but just as you have only looked at the word in isolation I am defending the meaning of the word at this level arguing it has broader application then what you superimpose over it. We need to take caution when we take a word out of context and find this very limited meaning and then insert it back in the context with the purpose of shape the meanings of passage. it's just a poor way of interpretation.

I didn't present the definition of that word in a vacuum. I presented it in all of the context provided in the OP. We had already been called to love our associates as ourselves. Therefore when Yahshua told us to love each other as he loved us. He was repeating Leviticus 19:18. He loved us as he loved himself; when he laid down his life for us.
 
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HARK!

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Because he told us to love one another as he loves us.
How did he love us? He went to the cross for us. He died for sinners; gave his perfect life for his enemies and those who hated God.

That command had not been given before. In the OT people hated their enemies and called on God to destroy HIS enemies - never before had God appeared on earth and sacrificed himself for those who hated him.
And that is how we are commanded to love.

Incidentally, Jesus was, and is, God; so we are to love with God's Agape love, just as he did.

I was going to create a thread on this subject; but here we go.

Let's take a look at the passage in question.


(CLV) Mt 5:43
"You hear that it was declared, `You shall be loving your associate' and you shall be hating your enemy.

(CLV) Mt 5:44
Yet I am saying to you, Love your enemies, and pray for those who are persecuting you,

Where in the TaNaK can you find a command to hate your enemy?

(CLV) Ex 23:4
In case you come upon the bull of your enemy or his donkey going astray, you shall return, yea return it to him.

(CLV) Ex 23:5
In case you see the donkey of one hating you reclining under its load, then you will halt from forsaking him with it. You shall set free, yea set it free along with him.

(CLV) Pr 25:21
If one hating you is hungry, give him bread to eat, And if he is thirsty, give him water to drink,

(CLV) Pr 24:17
At the fall of your enemy do not rejoice, And at his stumbling do not let your heart exult,

(CLV) Pr 24:18
Lest Yahweh should see, and it be evil in His eyes, So that He turns away His anger from on him.


No new commandment!
 
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HARK!

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I think a difference is that now love wasn’t merely a command, but something that was to be imitated. God is love, and Jesus revealed and poured out that love in a way that had never been seen before. ‘Love as I do’ is the full precept.

YHWH's law is his nature; and we were created in his image.

Like father, like son.
 
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HARK!

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Maybe you are correct about the meaning of the word “new”, however, there seems to be a difference, because Jesus says “…as I love you…”.

He loved his associates as himself.

That, without question, is what Leviticus 19:18 says to do.
 
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Mr. M

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Where in the TaNaK can you find a command to hate your enemy?
"You have heard it said of old" = traditions of men. Taking appropriate action even for an enemy,
such as helping his animal out of a ditch is righteous judgment.
All aspects contribute to the understanding of "the Love of God".
Matthew 5:45-47. that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun
rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?

Poor tax collectors. "why is everybody always pickin' on me?"

Deuteronomy 32:4. He is the Rock, His work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment:
a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Matthew 5:48. Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
 
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HARK!

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Hark you are incorrect!

Nope.

Teh OT passage was to love you rneighbor as yourself!

Yep.

Jesus new command is to love one another as GOD loves us! so it is qualitatively ans quantitatively new!

Nope. Here is what it says. I posted it in the OP:

(CLV) Jn 13:34
"A new precept am I giving to you, that you be loving one another; according as I love you, that you also be loving one another.

That is what HE did. He loved His associates as himself when he laid his life down for them.


He followed the letter of the law written in Leviticus 19:18 and told us to do the same.
 
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klutedavid

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That word change is better translated as transferred. The laws concerning the High Priesthood were transferred with the office of the High Priesthood.

(CLV) Hb 7:12
For, the priesthood being transferred, of necessity there is coming to be a transference of law also,

YHWH doesn't change. His law is his nature.
Love is His nature.

Moses was given the law of condemnation and death.

Jesus gave us salvation and the law of life.

Your standing on the wrong mountain.
 
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klutedavid

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Nope.



Yep.



Nope. Here is what it says. I posted it in the OP:

(CLV) Jn 13:34
"A new precept am I giving to you, that you be loving one another; according as I love you, that you also be loving one another.

That is what HE did. He loved His associates as himself when he laid his life down for them.


He followed the letter of the law written in Leviticus 19:18 and told us to do the same.
One is selfish love and the other unconditional, divine love.
 
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Mr. M

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Nope.



Yep.



Nope. Here is what it says. I posted it in the OP:

(CLV) Jn 13:34
"A new precept am I giving to you, that you be loving one another; according as I love you, that you also be loving one another.

That is what HE did. He loved His associates as himself when he laid his life down for them.


He followed the letter of the law written in Leviticus 19:18 and told us to do the same.

Hark! This is a beautiful interpretation that none of us would have arrived at if not for the Incarnation. Whether you split hairs on greek words for "new", He declares "behold, I make all things new". They call it the New Testament, not the refreshed testament or magnified testament. The point being, you cannot arrive at your conclusions based on "love your neighbor," without acknowledging. "what you do for the least of these, you do to Me." This is the revelation of Jesus Christ. It wouldn't be a revelation of the mystery kept hidden in Christ, if it wasn't radically new.
 
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fhansen

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YHWH's law is his nature; and we were created in his image.

Like father, like son.
Yes, well, there's no guarantee that we'll remain in that capacity, that we'll continue to love as He does IOW. Living up to our potential is an ongoing endeavor, impossible without the help of grace.
 
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