I want to see timeline charts.....

Douggg said:

But the ten kings, the ten toes, had not received their kingdom yet, at the time Revelation was given to John.

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That probably depends on who a person considers are the ten. This is in regards to the overseeing of the Kingdom of God....so it needs to be kept in context.

Can you correct what's illustrated in this? IOW....somehow point out your alternative beliefs to these specific points?

Douggg said:

And I don't think the Roman Empire was ended at the time of Jesus's first coming, to say the statue image in Daniel 2 came crashing down, at Jesus's first coming.

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The point of Daniel 2:44 is when the Kingdom of God would be set up.

In order for the Kingdom of God to crash into the feet (the divided Roman Empire made of iron and clay)...then the divided Roman Empire would have to have existed at the time of the setting up of the Kingdom. That can't be future. The Roman Empire ceased to exist in 476 AD (Sources: BBC History, History Learning Site, Rome.Info, Wikipedia, About.com’s Ancient History).

Douggg said:

Yes, on the illustration the statue image is still standing, meaning the Kingdom of God has not arrived to topple it. Also meaning the ten toe kings have not arrived either. And the stone has not arrived to topple the image, which will happen at Jesus's return, in the days of the ten kings.

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What exists of the statue now, then....in your opinion? The ten toes?

Douggg said:

The feet of iron and clay are the end times version of the Roman Empire. Partly weak partly strong indicates that some parts of that kingdom will be strong and others weak. Which describes the EU member nations.

The EU is not in it final form of having ten kings, i.e. leaders, over which is the one leader the little horn.

So that is what I am thinking comes next. Apart from the rapture, that could happen anytime.

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Why all these years of dormancy, it seems (the true Roman Empire has ceased to exist for over a thousandyears? And what's the correlation to the EU and the Kingdom of God?)

Adam Maarschalk makes an excellent point (IMO) about the transition from the 3rd kingdom to the 4th in Daniel's prophecy. He wrote:

More from Adam Maarschalk:

Kingdom #3 (Bronze / Belly and Thighs) to Kingdom #4 (Iron and Iron-Clay / Legs and Feet)

II Maccabees 5:2-4 describes a prolonged supernatural event seen by “people all over Jerusalem” in 164 BC:


When the same vision was seen nearly 230 years later (Wars 6.5.3), it was not a good sign for Jerusalem. This time it was, though. The Jewish Virtual Library continues its overview of Israel’s history by discussing Israel’s transition from dominance by the Greeks/Macedonians to full independence in 142 BC (see the previous post for the first part of this overview):

The Jews Regain Their Independence
It took more than two decades of fighting before the Maccabees forced the Seleucids to retreat from the Land of Israel. By this time Antiochus had died and his successor agreed to the Jews’ demand for independence. In the year 142 BCE, after more than 500 years of subjugation, the Jews were again masters of their own fate.
"Rome Congratulated Israel on Becoming the Fourth Kingdom of Daniel 2 | Pursuing Truth" Rome Congratulated Israel on Becoming the Fourth Kingdom of Daniel 2

.....and more. This gets complicated, because so much is tied together....but if two people have a completely different theology and timeframes (thousands of years apart), the whole two illustrations are going to be completely foreign from each other.

Quoting Adam Maarschalk:
The Body of the Fourth Beast Destroyed and Burned (Daniel 7:11)
In Daniel 7:9-10, Daniel saw a throne scene in which “thrones were put in place, and the Ancient of Days was seated,” and a court was also seated and books were opened. Verse 11 then comes back to the little horn and the fourth beast, saying,

“I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame.”

In this series I am making the case that the fourth beast/kingdom of Daniel and “the beast” of the book of Revelation was Zealot-led Israel. The language used here in this verse certainly fits, considering that Israel was destroyed in the Jewish-Roman War of 66-73, and considering that Jerusalem and the temple were burned with fire (fulfilling Matthew 22:7; II Peter 3:7, 10, 12; Revelation 17:16; 18:8-9, 18; 19:20).

This does not fit Rome

"The Little Horn Changed Times and Law (Daniel 7:25) – Pursuing Truth" The Little Horn Changed Times and Law (Daniel 7:25)

Douggg said:

It would fit the little horn future leader of the EU, if one considers the little horn, following Gog/Magog, will be considered by Israel the messiah, promised great King of Israel. Who later betrays Israel, revealing himself to be the man of sin, and not the messiah after all, by claiming himself to be God. That would certainly be an attempt to change the law, would it not?

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That doesn't fit the timeline.

We can look back to first century Jerusalem and see fulfillment in the frame of time that Jesus and His apostles said these things would happen. We don't have to create a new narrative and guess the key players. History confirms Scripture.

mkgal1 said:

History confirms Scripture.

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The only history that can prove anything Biblically, is "Biblical History." That is to say, the history of the world as it is written in the Bible alone. Biblical history cannot be proven true by the writings of the historian Josephus declaring what he believes took place in AD 70. Are we to suppose that God would leave the interpretation of His Holy Word concerning the mountains of flight to Josephus, an unbeliever? We are not to suppose that at all. Holy men of God who declared truth spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost (2nd Peter 1:21), Josephus did not. He was not divinely inspired to write anything, and secular writing (no matter how accurate we may think they are) cannot be looked upon as "proof" of prophecy fulfillment. The Holy Spirit, through God's word, proves prophecy.

So any idea about "1st Century Jersualem" or "70AD Theory" is false and has nothing to do with the so-called timeline you guys are trying to sell.

TribulationSigns said:

The only history that can prove anything Biblically, is "Biblical History." That is to say, the history of the world as it is written in the Bible alone.

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The New Testament was written during this period of time (the transitional period). Josephus and Tacitus (and other historians) look back on this time and on the events of 70 AD:

TribulationSigns said:

Biblical history cannot be proven true by the writings of the historian Josephus declaring what he believes took place in AD 70.

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Jesus predicted:


Josephus wrote:
“Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as were of the greatest eminency…and so much of the wall as enclosed the city on the west side… but for all the rest of the wall, it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it had ever been inhabited. This was the end which Jerusalem came to by the madness of those that were for innovations; a city otherwise of great magnificence, and of mighty fame among all mankind” (Wars 7.1.1)

TribulationSigns said:

We are not to suppose that at all. Holy men of God who declared truth spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost (2nd Peter 1:21), Josephus did not. He was not divinely inspired to write anything, and secular writing (no matter how accurate we may think they are) cannot be looked upon as "proof" of prophecy fulfillment.

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Truth is Truth no matter who tells it. Unbiased historians report the facts of what happened in history - they don't offer interpretation.

mkgal1 said:

The New Testament was written during this period of time (the transitional period). Josephus and Tacitus (and other historians) look back on this time:

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As I said, you can't take biblical interpretation from unbelieving historians. You have no Bible support for the so-called "40 years transitional or Covenant period". The Covenant Transitional took place right at the CROSS in a three-day span! Didn't you read the Scripture? The testament/covenant/congregation is Christ's temple of the body!

John 2:19-21 KJV
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

I am not surprised if you, like the blind Jews who did not understand what Christ talked about! The temple of his body represents His Old Testament Congregation but in three days He rebuilt it and now it is called New Testament Congregation in which kingdom representative was given. All in three days! That is your Covenant Transition right here!

Matthew 21:42-43 KJV
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

This has NOTHING to do with your man-made chart with 40 transition years or physical destruction of Jerusalem. Zero!

What did I tell you many times? Spiritual Discernment and comparing Scripture with Scripture.

Word of God is an authority, not Josephus or any historians. Selah!

mkgal1 said:

Truth is Truth no matter who tells it. Unbiased historians report the facts of what happened in history - they don't offer interpretation.

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Ouches!!

Genesis 40:8 KJV
[8] And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you.

His interpretations are not found in your historians. It is found in His Own Word, in Scripture.

Your interpretation is based on the WRONG SOURCE. Historians are not a source of Biblical History which you used for your interpretation. Tsk Tsk! You got it backward. For accurate Biblical history, we go to SCRIPTURE for source. Not so-called "unbiased" historians. They are not of God.

I have quoted Scripture to prove you wrong. How where is Scripture support for your so-called 40 years transition chart exactly as God said it. I am waiting.

TribulationSigns said:

As I said, you can't take biblical interpretation from unbelieving historians.

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We aren't gathering interpretation from historians. We are only gathering facts. We learn information like: who was governor of a region during a certain year; what wars occurred and who fought in them; who controlled certain regions politically....etc.