What it means to be "quickened" in salvation

sovereigngrace · Jun 29, 2020

It seems like some Premils have been trying to explain away spiritual resurrection upon salvation for the sole purpose that it exposes their interpretation, location and timing of Revelation 20. This has been easily, ably and repeatedly refuted by Amils on this board. The fact is: multiple NT passages (Luke 2:34, John 8:12, Romans 4:17, Romans 6:3-6, 2 Corinthians 1:8-10, Ephesians 2:1-6, Ephesians 5:14, Colossians 2:10-14, Colossians 3:1-4, I John 3:14) teach that we have experienced spiritual resurrection from spiritual death through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Premils also do the same with the spiritual quickening (described throughout the NT) that happens to the sinner upon salvation.

Fullness of the Gentiles said:
Quickening is not "spiritual resurrection".
The Bible teaches you - JESUS teaches you - that in order to have spiritual life you must be born from above by the Spirit of Christ above.
That reality is what places you in Christ and Christ in you and causes you to be buried with Him by baptism into death and to rise again bodily with Him and to be seated in your spirit with Him in heavenly places while you live in hope of the quickening of your own mortal body - the resurrection of your own mortal body from death.
1. Spiritual birth.
2. Resurrection from death (which is always a bodily resurrection in scripture) = ~~"spiritual resurrection".~~

No. There is no such thing as "spiritual resurrection". You are following the false doctrine of someone who read "spiritual resurrection" into "quickening".

I cannot understand why you can't tell the difference between birth, and resurrection from death.

Quickening

Sadly, many Premils do not seem to have any grasp of what it means to be spiritually quickened and resurrected from spiritual death. It is either this, or their faulty theology forces them into defending the indefensible. It would therefore be beneficial to let Scripture speak for itself.

1 Corinthians 15:45-48 explains:

“The first man Adam was made a living soul.”

“the last Adam was made a quickening [Gr. zōopoieō] spirit."

And continues, “Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.”

This text teaches us that our “natural” ‘soulish’ man came first; the “spiritual … heavenly” came second. This is talking about our old man and our new man. The old man is dead unto God and controlled by natural understanding and natural feelings. Our new man is our spiritual man who has been raised from spiritual death. He is God-conscience, and alive unto God. These two natures are in conflict with each other.

The Greek word interpreted "quickening" is zōopoieō meaning to produce alive, to cause to live, make alive, give life. Metaphorically, it describes seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing.

We are talking about regeneration here! We are looking at the translation of a man from death to life. This is indeed supernatural, and is instigated by the Lord. The phrase "a quickening spirit" is talking about the initiator of life Jesus Christ; a quickened spirit is the recipient of that life.

Jesus said in John 6:63, “It is the spirit that quickeneth [Gr. zōopoieō]; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”

Man’s natural body and soul remain alive (in all men saved and lost) until physical death. It is therefore the spirit of man that is dead towards God that is (1) quickened (2) resurrected from its grave that begets life and therefore a new nature or the spiritual man. The spiritual man is “created in righteousness and true holiness” (Ephesians 4:24) and hence alive unto God.

Colossians 2:10-14 says, “ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ‘ye are risen with him’ [Gr. sunegeirō] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised [Gr. egeiro] him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened [Gr. suzōopoieō] together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which

Before salvation we were dead, obviously not physically, but spiritually. But when Christ breathed spiritual life into us, we were "quickened" (or made alive spiritually) and "raised" from the grave of our sin.

The word rendered “quickened” in the above passage is translated from the Greek word suzoopoieo (Strong’s 4806), which is derived from combining the words sun (Strong’s 4862) with zoopoíeo (Strong’s 2227), meaning to make alive, give life and revitalize. Hence, we can see the deep meaning of this word in the aforementioned passage and the essential work that is perfected in the penitent sinner in regeneration.

This explicit passage describes the act of salvation as a resurrection feat. Moreover, the raising of the forgiven child of God in resurrection power in salvation is in turn carefully identified with, and connected to, Christ’s glorious resurrection. It confirms that our hearts “are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ” in salvation, and likens this supernatural work to a death, burial and resurrection. This reading shows how the child of God is “buried with him,” “quickened together with him,” and finally “risen with him.”

Once a person gets saved they are made spiritually alive through spiritual resurrection. This involves a spiritual birth. As a result, they enter into eternal life and consequently never die.

Romans 4:17 says, speaking of that great father of the faith Abraham, “(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth [Gr. zōopoieō] the dead, and calleth those things which be not (unbelieving Gentiles) as though they were (the people of God).”

Again, the word rendered “quickened” in the above passage is translated from the original word zoopoieo meaning to make alive, give life and revitalize. It is the same word used in Ephesians 2:5 and Colossians 3:1, only it is prefixed there by the Greek word sun in those passages. This passage is describing how God breathed spiritual life into the once darkened Gentile nations, and brought them into a personal relationship with the living God. Those within the nations that received God’s provision for sin and uncleanness were then immediately brought from a condition of spiritual death unto a state of spiritual life through the precious work of Christ at Calvary. This quickening of the Gentiles is therefore plainly not just a future hope but a joyous present reality.

Ephesians 2:1-6 also says, “you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, ‘hath quickened us together’ [Gr. suzōopoieō] with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath ‘raised us up together’ [Gr. suzōopoieō] and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

The same two Greek words found in Colossians 2:10-14 are also used in this reading to describe the spiritual resurrection. Again, the word rendered “quickened” here in Ephesians 2 is the Greek word suzoopoieo, which indicates a uniting to Christ in mystical union by means of being spiritually revitalized and made alive. The Greek word sunegeiro carries the meaning of union with Christ through resurrection. It is also in the aorist active demonstrating that it relates to the present. All sane theologians know that is not therefore not talking about physical resurrection.

sovereigngrace · Jun 29, 2020

Jesus says, in John 11:25, “I am the resurrection (or) anastasis (Strong’s 386), and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."

Here is a perplexing passage for the hyper-literalist mind-set as it expressly indicates that Christians will “never die.” However, we assuredly know that the righteous physically die just like the ungodly. So obviously Christ is not speaking of natural death here but rather of spiritual death (the second death). Christ says, “he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.” This can only speak of the spiritually dead because they are assuredly the only dead people that have the opportunity to believe and see victory over spiritual death. The interpretation of this passage seems plain. To apply this passage to physical death is indeed preposterous as these “dead” persons that are in view don’t have the ability to believe. Christ’s glorious resurrection therefore not only secured a physical resurrection for the believer, but, also, a spiritual resurrection, which plainly precedes it. These words of Christ clearly demonstrate: “whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.”

The truth that the new birth experience is the act that delivers a sinner from the penalty of eternal wrath is one of the clearest and most repeated doctrines in the New Testament. Jesus said in John 10:27-28, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish (the second death), neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

Like John 11:25 this passage is baffling to the literalist mind. Jesus said, “I give unto them (His sheep) eternal life; and they shall never perish.” Again, this must relate to eternal spiritual death not physical death. In John 8:51 Christ said to the Pharisees, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”

We all know that the righteous physically die just like the ungodly, so Christ is obviously not speaking of natural death. So what is He speaking about? He is referring to spiritual death. Christ says, “he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.” This can only speak of the spiritually dead because they are assuredly the only dead people that have the opportunity to believe and see victory over spiritual death. The interpretation of this passage seems plain. To apply this passage to physical death is indeed preposterous as these “dead” persons that are in view don’t have the ability to believe. Christ’s glorious resurrection therefore not only secured a physical resurrection for the believer, but, also, a spiritual resurrection, which plainly precedes it. These words of Christ clearly demonstrate: “whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.”

Those who experience this first resurrection reign with Christ in heaven for a protracted period of time – symbolically described as a thousand years. Therefore, we can assume that the first resurrection refers either to the new birth experience, where the sinner is raised from the grave of his sin, or, that it refers to the resurrection of the believer’s soul to heaven upon death in order to reign with Christ over His enemies. Both of these views would certainly command consideration and would certainly fit in with the language of Revelation 20. However, scrutinizing the consistent teaching of Scripture would lead us to the firm conclusion that this narrative relates to the new birth experience, which eternally releases men from the condemnation of hell.

keras · Jun 29, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
Those who experience this first resurrection reign with Christ in heaven for a protracted period of time – symbolically described as a thousand years. Therefore, we can assume that the first resurrection refers either to the new birth experience, where the sinner is raised from the grave of his sin, or, that it refers to the resurrection of the believer’s soul to heaven upon death in order to reign with Christ over His enemies. Both of these views would certainly command consideration and would certainly fit in with the language of Revelation 20. However, scrutinizing the consistent teaching of Scripture would lead us to the firm conclusion that this narrative relates to the new birth experience, which eternally releases men from the condemnation of hell.

Revelation 20:4-6 is a plainly stated narrative.
It says that Jesus will bring the souls of the GT martyrs back with Him and bring them back to life. They will be the first resurrection and the rest of the dead remain in their graves until the thousand years have ended.
Then it says; Over them the second death has no power.....

The Lake of Fire is the second death, Revelation 20:14b You are right, that is Spiritual Death.
It follows then, they cannot go into the LoF. BUT they may experience death again, just as every person raised before has done. Lazarus is the prime example.

Our Promise of Eternal release from the horrors of hell is sure, while our names are Written in the Book of Life. We receive immortality when that Book is opened, AFTER the Millennium.
It is a false teaching to say we go to heaven upon our death. That would mean immortality before the GWT Judgment.

sovereigngrace · Jun 29, 2020

keras said:
Revelation 20:4-6 is a plainly stated narrative.
It says that Jesus will bring the souls of the GT martyrs back with Him and bring them back to life.

That occurs at death. Read the text.

They will be the first resurrection and the rest of the dead remain in their graves until the thousand years have ended.
Then it says; Over them the second death has no power.....

There is one literal first resurrection where Christ defeated the grave. The Bible makes it clear that Christ is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5).

There is a literal reigning of the dead in Christ now during the intra-Advent period (Rev 20:4). See also Hebrews 12:18, 22-23, Revelation 6:9-10, 7:9-17, 15:1-3).

The Lake of Fire is the second death, Revelation 20:14b You are right, that is Spiritual Death.
It follows then, they cannot go into the LoF. BUT they may experience death again, just as every person raised before has done. Lazarus is the prime example.

At least we have finally agreed on something.

Our Promise of Eternal release from the horrors of hell is sure, while our names are Written in the Book of Life. We receive immortality when that Book is opened, AFTER the Millennium.
It is a false teaching to say we go to heaven upon our death. That would mean immortality before the GWT Judgment.

You are going to have to stop fighting with the Book! Death for the believer, is not the end. It is the beginning of the eternal state! There, the elect is liberated from all the physical bodily afflictions that blight our earthly sojourn. Our body may die and go into the grave, awaiting the resurrection, but our spirit goes immediately into the presence of God.

Repeated Scripture proves that bodily death cannot separate the believer from Christ. Whether it is in life or whether it is in death, nothing can separate God’s people from their Lord. Where He is we will be also.

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

When Jesus comes on the day of redemption, on the last day, the bodies of all believers will be resurrected in the resurrection of the just and changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible.

2 Corinthians 5:8 says, "We are confident, I say, and willing rather ‘to be absent’ from the body, and ‘to be present’ with the Lord."

‘ekdeemeesai’ – ‘be absent’
‘endeemeesai’ – ‘be present’

Paul said in Philippians 1:21-24 says, “For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.”

Death was a promotion for Paul!!!

keras · Jun 30, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
That occurs at death. Read the text.

Sure; their heads will be chopped off. Their souls wait under the Altar.

sovereigngrace said:
There is one literal first resurrection where Christ defeated the grave

But Revelation 20:5b plainly says that the raising of those Trib martyrs; IS the first resurrection.
I view this as the first for mortal humans, whereas Jesus came from heaven and simply returned to there.

sovereigngrace said:
At least we have finally agreed on something.

OO boppy do! Not quite sure what that is, tho!

sovereigngrace said:
You are going to have to stop fighting with the Book! Death for the believer, is not the end.

Not the end, but a waiting period, until the Day all the dead will stand before God.
Going direct to heaven, as is spouted at just about every funeral, is a big white lie.

sovereigngrace said:
Death was a promotion for Paul!!!

Paul will stand, along with everyone who has ever lived, at the GWT Judgment. His last memory will be at the moment of his death.

sovereigngrace · Jun 30, 2020

keras said:
Sure; their heads will be chopped off. Their souls wait under the Altar.

But Revelation 20:5b plainly says that the raising of those Trib martyrs; IS the first resurrection.
I view this as the first for mortal humans, whereas Jesus came from heaven and simply returned to there.

OO boppy do! Not quite sure what that is, tho!

Not the end, but a waiting period, until the Day all the dead will stand before God.
Going direct to heaven, as is spouted at just about every funeral, is a big white lie.

Paul will stand, along with everyone who has ever lived, at the GWT Judgment. His last memory will be at the moment of his death.

You totally avoided the scriptural evidence I presented.

Where do you think the dead in Christ wait before the second coming? And when are they physically resurrected?

sovereigngrace · Jun 30, 2020

keras said:
Sure; their heads will be chopped off. Their souls wait under the Altar.

But Revelation 20:5b plainly says that the raising of those Trib martyrs; IS the first resurrection.
I view this as the first for mortal humans, whereas Jesus came from heaven and simply returned to there.

OO boppy do! Not quite sure what that is, tho!

Not the end, but a waiting period, until the Day all the dead will stand before God.
Going direct to heaven, as is spouted at just about every funeral, is a big white lie.

Paul will stand, along with everyone who has ever lived, at the GWT Judgment. His last memory will be at the moment of his death.

Where exactly is "under the Altar"?

keras · Jun 30, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
You totally avoided the scriptural evidence I presented.

Where do you think the dead in Christ wait before the second coming? And when are they physically resurrected?

I showed that you misinterpret the scriptures you presented.

In their graves. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6

At the Great White Throne Judgment, after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

sovereigngrace said:
Where exactly is "under the Altar"?

In heaven. Revelation 6:9-11

sovereigngrace · Jun 30, 2020

keras said:
I showed that you misinterpret the scriptures you presented.

In their graves. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6

At the Great White Throne Judgment, after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

In heaven. Revelation 6:9-11

The writer to the Hebrews censures your beliefs in Hebrews 12:18, 22-23, saying, “For ye are not come (plural perfect active indicative)unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest … But ye are come (plural perfect active indicative) unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.”

Here, currently, we see where the dead in Christ are right now. They are not hovering about aimlessly upon death as you would suggest. These highlighted references in the original relate to the present, and are active, meaning the subject continues to exist in the state indicated by the verb. They relate to the here-and-now and are ongoing. They speak of our immediate entry into the kingdom of God and our current spiritual standing in the New Jerusalem. The heavenly Jerusalem is more than a future hope (even though it most assuredly is that), it is a present reality.

We have access to the holy of holies through the life, death and resurrection of Christ. We now have an open heaven. Hebrews 10:19-20 confirms: “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh.”

5thKingdom · Jun 30, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
It seems like some Premils have been trying to explain away spiritual resurrection upon salvation for the sole purpose that it exposes their interpretation, location and timing of Revelation 20. This has been easily, ably and repeatedly refuted by Amils on this board. The fact is: multiple NT passages (Luke 2:34, John 8:12, Romans 4:17, Romans 6:3-6, 2 Corinthians 1:8-10, Ephesians 2:1-6, Ephesians 5:14, Colossians 2:10-14, Colossians 3:1-4, I John 3:14) teach that we have experienced spiritual resurrection from spiritual death through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Premils also do the same with the spiritual quickening (described throughout the NT) that happens to the sinner upon salvation.

Quickening

Sadly, many Premils do not seem to have any grasp of what it means to be spiritually quickened and resurrected from spiritual death. It is either this, or their faulty theology forces them into defending the indefensible. It would therefore be beneficial to let Scripture speak for itself.

1 Corinthians 15:45-48 explains:

“The first man Adam was made a living soul.”

“the last Adam was made a quickening [Gr. zōopoieō] spirit."

And continues, “Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.”

This text teaches us that our “natural” ‘soulish’ man came first; the “spiritual … heavenly” came second. This is talking about our old man and our new man. The old man is dead unto God and controlled by natural understanding and natural feelings. Our new man is our spiritual man who has been raised from spiritual death. He is God-conscience, and alive unto God. These two natures are in conflict with each other.

The Greek word interpreted "quickening" is zōopoieō meaning to produce alive, to cause to live, make alive, give life. Metaphorically, it describes seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing.

We are talking about regeneration here! We are looking at the translation of a man from death to life. This is indeed supernatural, and is instigated by the Lord. The phrase "a quickening spirit" is talking about the initiator of life Jesus Christ; a quickened spirit is the recipient of that life.

Jesus said in John 6:63, “It is the spirit that quickeneth [Gr. zōopoieō]; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”

Man’s natural body and soul remain alive (in all men saved and lost) until physical death. It is therefore the spirit of man that is dead towards God that is (1) quickened (2) resurrected from its grave that begets life and therefore a new nature or the spiritual man. The spiritual man is “created in righteousness and true holiness” (Ephesians 4:24) and hence alive unto God.

Colossians 2:10-14 says, “ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ‘ye are risen with him’ [Gr. sunegeirō] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised [Gr. egeiro] him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened [Gr. suzōopoieō] together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which

Before salvation we were dead, obviously not physically, but spiritually. But when Christ breathed spiritual life into us, we were "quickened" (or made alive spiritually) and "raised" from the grave of our sin.

The word rendered “quickened” in the above passage is translated from the Greek word suzoopoieo (Strong’s 4806), which is derived from combining the words sun (Strong’s 4862) with zoopoíeo (Strong’s 2227), meaning to make alive, give life and revitalize. Hence, we can see the deep meaning of this word in the aforementioned passage and the essential work that is perfected in the penitent sinner in regeneration.

This explicit passage describes the act of salvation as a resurrection feat. Moreover, the raising of the forgiven child of God in resurrection power in salvation is in turn carefully identified with, and connected to, Christ’s glorious resurrection. It confirms that our hearts “are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ” in salvation, and likens this supernatural work to a death, burial and resurrection. This reading shows how the child of God is “buried with him,” “quickened together with him,” and finally “risen with him.”

Once a person gets saved they are made spiritually alive through spiritual resurrection. This involves a spiritual birth. As a result, they enter into eternal life and consequently never die.

Romans 4:17 says, speaking of that great father of the faith Abraham, “(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth [Gr. zōopoieō] the dead, and calleth those things which be not (unbelieving Gentiles) as though they were (the people of God).”

Again, the word rendered “quickened” in the above passage is translated from the original word zoopoieo meaning to make alive, give life and revitalize. It is the same word used in Ephesians 2:5 and Colossians 3:1, only it is prefixed there by the Greek word sun in those passages. This passage is describing how God breathed spiritual life into the once darkened Gentile nations, and brought them into a personal relationship with the living God. Those within the nations that received God’s provision for sin and uncleanness were then immediately brought from a condition of spiritual death unto a state of spiritual life through the precious work of Christ at Calvary. This quickening of the Gentiles is therefore plainly not just a future hope but a joyous present reality.

Ephesians 2:1-6 also says, “you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, ‘hath quickened us together’ [Gr. suzōopoieō] with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath ‘raised us up together’ [Gr. suzōopoieō] and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

The same two Greek words found in Colossians 2:10-14 are also used in this reading to describe the spiritual resurrection. Again, the word rendered “quickened” here in Ephesians 2 is the Greek word suzoopoieo, which indicates a uniting to Christ in mystical union by means of being spiritually revitalized and made alive. The Greek word sunegeiro carries the meaning of union with Christ through resurrection. It is also in the aorist active demonstrating that it relates to the present. All sane theologians know that is not therefore not talking about physical resurrection.

SovereignGrace... good for you.
It is an amazing thing to see people REJECT Scripture
in order to protect their (false) doctrines/gospels...
but it is so common. Nice post.

Jim
.

keras · Jul 1, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
Here, currently, we see where the dead in Christ are right now. They are not hovering about aimlessly upon death as you would suggest.

That is not what I said, I quoted the scripture which tells us; the dead lay in their graves and they know nothing. You quotes from Hebrews, do not say the Christians are dead, or when they receive those Promises.

Scripture says that when a person dies their soul goes back to God, who made it and because with God there is no time; then at the Great White Throne Judgement, after the Millennium, that soul; along with every soul that ever lived, is made conscious again at the time of Judgement. Revelation 20:12, There is no knowledge of any time passing between death and Judgement, just as Hebrews 9:27 says; It is the human lot to die once, then comes the Judgement.

Jesus said about Lazarus: He has fallen asleep… but then He clarified that Lazarus was really dead. John 11:11-14 Paul often mentions those who ‘sleep’ in death.
So Lazarus’s resurrection was a preview of the OT saints raised with Jesus at His resurrection and those Great Tribulation martyrs, who will be raised at His Return, Revelation 20:4

They all received and will receive earthly bodies, that are subject to death again.

But as Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, there will be some Christians alive at the end of the Millennium, who will never die, they will be transformed at the Judgement into immortality, along with all the rest whose names are written in the Book of Life. ONLY then will Death be no more. Revelation 21:4

The parable about Abraham and Lazarus, the beggar: is a scene AFTER that final Judgement, a homily for all to realize what our fate will be if we refuse to honor God.

The flesh we currently inhabit will never be reconstituted, those worthy to go into Eternity with God will be spiritual beings. Matthew 22:30 In the resurrection …..they are like the angels in heaven.

Job 14:10-15 When a human dies, all his power vanishes, he is like a dried up river. So mortal man lies down and never to rise, until the heavens be no more!

Lord, I ask that You hide me in the grave, conceal me until Your wrath has passed, then Lord; remember me at Your appointed time! I will wait, however long it takes for the change to come. Then, You will summon me and I will answer: I am the work of Your hands.

The sequence is:

1/ We all die. The only exceptions will be those remaining alive at the end of the Millennium.

2/ The Lord’s wrath will pass; all as is prophesied to happen. Revelation 15:1

3/ The dead know nothing until the Appointed time for the Great White Throne Judgement, when there will be new heavens and a new earth. Revelation 21:1-4

4/ Then, for those whose names are written in the Book of Life, the change will come; into immortality for Eternity with God.
As described in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56.

sovereigngrace · Jul 1, 2020

keras said:
That is not what I said, I quoted the scripture which tells us; the dead lay in their graves and they know nothing. You quotes from Hebrews, do not say the Christians are dead, or when they receive those Promises.

Scripture says that when a person dies their soul goes back to God, who made it and because with God there is no time; then at the Great White Throne Judgement, after the Millennium, that soul; along with every soul that ever lived, is made conscious again at the time of Judgement. Revelation 20:12, There is no knowledge of any time passing between death and Judgement, just as Hebrews 9:27 says; It is the human lot to die once, then comes the Judgement.

Jesus said about Lazarus: He has fallen asleep… but then He clarified that Lazarus was really dead. John 11:11-14 Paul often mentions those who ‘sleep’ in death.
So Lazarus’s resurrection was a preview of the OT saints raised with Jesus at His resurrection and those Great Tribulation martyrs, who will be raised at His Return, Revelation 20:4

They all received and will receive earthly bodies, that are subject to death again.

But as Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, there will be some Christians alive at the end of the Millennium, who will never die, they will be transformed at the Judgement into immortality, along with all the rest whose names are written in the Book of Life. ONLY then will Death be no more. Revelation 21:4

The parable about Abraham and Lazarus, the beggar: is a scene AFTER that final Judgement, a homily for all to realize what our fate will be if we refuse to honor God.

The flesh we currently inhabit will never be reconstituted, those worthy to go into Eternity with God will be spiritual beings. Matthew 22:30 In the resurrection …..they are like the angels in heaven.

Job 14:10-15 When a human dies, all his power vanishes, he is like a dried up river. So mortal man lies down and never to rise, until the heavens be no more!

Lord, I ask that You hide me in the grave, conceal me until Your wrath has passed, then Lord; remember me at Your appointed time! I will wait, however long it takes for the change to come. Then, You will summon me and I will answer: I am the work of Your hands.

The sequence is:

1/ We all die. The only exceptions will be those remaining alive at the end of the Millennium.

2/ The Lord’s wrath will pass; all as is prophesied to happen. Revelation 15:1

3/ The dead know nothing until the Appointed time for the Great White Throne Judgement, when there will be new heavens and a new earth. Revelation 21:1-4

4/ Then, for those whose names are written in the Book of Life, the change will come; into immortality for Eternity with God.
As described in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56.

When is the coming of the Lord and what happens then?

Douggg · Jul 1, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
It seems like some Premils have been trying to explain away spiritual resurrection upon salvation for the sole purpose that it exposes their interpretation, location and timing of Revelation 20. This has been easily, ably and repeatedly refuted by Amils on this board. The fact is: multiple NT passages (Luke 2:34, John 8:12, Romans 4:17, Romans 6:3-6, 2 Corinthians 1:8-10, Ephesians 2:1-6, Ephesians 5:14, Colossians 2:10-14, Colossians 3:1-4, I John 3:14) teach that we have experienced spiritual resurrection from spiritual death through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Premils also do the same with the spiritual quickening (described throughout the NT) that happens to the sinner upon salvation.

Quickening

Sadly, many Premils do not seem to have any grasp of what it means to be spiritually quickened and resurrected from spiritual death. It is either this, or their faulty theology forces them into defending the indefensible. It would therefore be beneficial to let Scripture speak for itself.

1 Corinthians 15:45-48 explains:

“The first man Adam was made a living soul.”

“the last Adam was made a quickening [Gr. zōopoieō] spirit."

And continues, “Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.”

This text teaches us that our “natural” ‘soulish’ man came first; the “spiritual … heavenly” came second. This is talking about our old man and our new man. The old man is dead unto God and controlled by natural understanding and natural feelings. Our new man is our spiritual man who has been raised from spiritual death. He is God-conscience, and alive unto God. These two natures are in conflict with each other.

The Greek word interpreted "quickening" is zōopoieō meaning to produce alive, to cause to live, make alive, give life. Metaphorically, it describes seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing.

We are talking about regeneration here! We are looking at the translation of a man from death to life. This is indeed supernatural, and is instigated by the Lord. The phrase "a quickening spirit" is talking about the initiator of life Jesus Christ; a quickened spirit is the recipient of that life.

Jesus said in John 6:63, “It is the spirit that quickeneth [Gr. zōopoieō]; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”

Man’s natural body and soul remain alive (in all men saved and lost) until physical death. It is therefore the spirit of man that is dead towards God that is (1) quickened (2) resurrected from its grave that begets life and therefore a new nature or the spiritual man. The spiritual man is “created in righteousness and true holiness” (Ephesians 4:24) and hence alive unto God.

Colossians 2:10-14 says, “ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ‘ye are risen with him’ [Gr. sunegeirō] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised [Gr. egeiro] him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened [Gr. suzōopoieō] together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which

Before salvation we were dead, obviously not physically, but spiritually. But when Christ breathed spiritual life into us, we were "quickened" (or made alive spiritually) and "raised" from the grave of our sin.

The word rendered “quickened” in the above passage is translated from the Greek word suzoopoieo (Strong’s 4806), which is derived from combining the words sun (Strong’s 4862) with zoopoíeo (Strong’s 2227), meaning to make alive, give life and revitalize. Hence, we can see the deep meaning of this word in the aforementioned passage and the essential work that is perfected in the penitent sinner in regeneration.

This explicit passage describes the act of salvation as a resurrection feat. Moreover, the raising of the forgiven child of God in resurrection power in salvation is in turn carefully identified with, and connected to, Christ’s glorious resurrection. It confirms that our hearts “are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ” in salvation, and likens this supernatural work to a death, burial and resurrection. This reading shows how the child of God is “buried with him,” “quickened together with him,” and finally “risen with him.”

Once a person gets saved they are made spiritually alive through spiritual resurrection. This involves a spiritual birth. As a result, they enter into eternal life and consequently never die.

Romans 4:17 says, speaking of that great father of the faith Abraham, “(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth [Gr. zōopoieō] the dead, and calleth those things which be not (unbelieving Gentiles) as though they were (the people of God).”

Again, the word rendered “quickened” in the above passage is translated from the original word zoopoieo meaning to make alive, give life and revitalize. It is the same word used in Ephesians 2:5 and Colossians 3:1, only it is prefixed there by the Greek word sun in those passages. This passage is describing how God breathed spiritual life into the once darkened Gentile nations, and brought them into a personal relationship with the living God. Those within the nations that received God’s provision for sin and uncleanness were then immediately brought from a condition of spiritual death unto a state of spiritual life through the precious work of Christ at Calvary. This quickening of the Gentiles is therefore plainly not just a future hope but a joyous present reality.

Ephesians 2:1-6 also says, “you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, ‘hath quickened us together’ [Gr. suzōopoieō] with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath ‘raised us up together’ [Gr. suzōopoieō] and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

The same two Greek words found in Colossians 2:10-14 are also used in this reading to describe the spiritual resurrection. Again, the word rendered “quickened” here in Ephesians 2 is the Greek word suzoopoieo, which indicates a uniting to Christ in mystical union by means of being spiritually revitalized and made alive. The Greek word sunegeiro carries the meaning of union with Christ through resurrection. It is also in the aorist active demonstrating that it relates to the present. All sane theologians know that is not therefore not talking about physical resurrection.

Jesus made as a quickening spirit is that he is the spiritual power that changes. It can apply to a person changed from being in an existence which sin has power over a person's eternal destiny, to being saved and having eternal life. Or it can apply to resurrection of dead bodies and the translation of the living in Christ at the resurrection/rapture. As Jesus is the voice of the archangel, the trump of God.

sovereigngrace · Jul 1, 2020

Douggg said:
Jesus made a quickening spirit is that he is the spiritual power that changes. It can apply to a person changed from being in an existence which sin has power over a person's eternal destiny, to being saved and having eternal life. Or it can apply to resurrection of dead bodies and the translation of the living in Christ at the resurrection/rapture. As Jesus is the voice of the archangel, the trump of God.

The soul relates to the natural man. The spirit relates to our spiritual man. A man is saved when he is raised from spiritual death to spiritual life. This happens through spiritual resurrection. This involves a spiritual birth. As a result, they enter into eternal life and consequently never die.

Douggg · Jul 1, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
The soul relates to the natural man. The spirit relates to our spiritual man. A man is saved when he is raised from spiritual death to spiritual life. This happens through spiritual resurrection. This involves a spiritual birth. As a result, they enter into eternal life and consequently never die.

Salvation is redemption of the soul and redemption of the body. Otherwise, looking up, your redemption draws near would have no meaning.

keras · Jul 1, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
When is the coming of the Lord and what happens then?

Don't you have any refutation for #11? Think a subject change will help your case?

Jesus will Return when His enemies are made His footstool. Finally at Armageddon; the Seventh Bowl. Revelation 16:16
We Christians must endure until the end, Revelation 13:9-10 Jesus will bring our rewards with Him. Matthew 16:27

sovereigngrace · Jul 3, 2020

keras said:
That is not what I said, I quoted the scripture which tells us; the dead lay in their graves and they know nothing. You quotes from Hebrews, do not say the Christians are dead, or when they receive those Promises.

Scripture says that when a person dies their soul goes back to God, who made it and because with God there is no time; then at the Great White Throne Judgement, after the Millennium, that soul; along with every soul that ever lived, is made conscious again at the time of Judgement. Revelation 20:12, There is no knowledge of any time passing between death and Judgement, just as Hebrews 9:27 says; It is the human lot to die once, then comes the Judgement.

Jesus said about Lazarus: He has fallen asleep… but then He clarified that Lazarus was really dead. John 11:11-14 Paul often mentions those who ‘sleep’ in death.
So Lazarus’s resurrection was a preview of the OT saints raised with Jesus at His resurrection and those Great Tribulation martyrs, who will be raised at His Return, Revelation 20:4

They all received and will receive earthly bodies, that are subject to death again.

But as Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, there will be some Christians alive at the end of the Millennium, who will never die, they will be transformed at the Judgement into immortality, along with all the rest whose names are written in the Book of Life. ONLY then will Death be no more. Revelation 21:4

The parable about Abraham and Lazarus, the beggar: is a scene AFTER that final Judgement, a homily for all to realize what our fate will be if we refuse to honor God.

The flesh we currently inhabit will never be reconstituted, those worthy to go into Eternity with God will be spiritual beings. Matthew 22:30 In the resurrection …..they are like the angels in heaven.

Job 14:10-15 When a human dies, all his power vanishes, he is like a dried up river. So mortal man lies down and never to rise, until the heavens be no more!

Lord, I ask that You hide me in the grave, conceal me until Your wrath has passed, then Lord; remember me at Your appointed time! I will wait, however long it takes for the change to come. Then, You will summon me and I will answer: I am the work of Your hands.

The sequence is:

1/ We all die. The only exceptions will be those remaining alive at the end of the Millennium.

2/ The Lord’s wrath will pass; all as is prophesied to happen. Revelation 15:1

3/ The dead know nothing until the Appointed time for the Great White Throne Judgement, when there will be new heavens and a new earth. Revelation 21:1-4

4/ Then, for those whose names are written in the Book of Life, the change will come; into immortality for Eternity with God.
As described in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56.

So, if the souls of the dead go to be with God when they die, how can they be sleeping in the grave?

keras · Jul 3, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
So, if the souls of the dead go to be with God when they die, how can they be sleeping in the grave?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall dust return to the earth....and the Spirit return to God, who gave it.
Any fanciful notions of going to heaven at death, or 'glorified bodies' when Jesus Returns, are all lies, from the father of lies.
We need to be prepared to stand firm in our faith thru all that must happen. Only at the GWT, will those worthy receive immortality. Revelation 20:11-15

rwb · Jul 4, 2020

keras said:
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall dust return to the earth....and the Spirit return to God, who gave it.
Any fanciful notions of going to heaven at death, or 'glorified bodies' when Jesus Returns, are all lies, from the father of lies.
We need to be prepared to stand firm in our faith thru all that must happen. Only at the GWT, will those worthy receive immortality. Revelation 20:11-15

It is the eternal spirit of believers that returns to God in death, not the body that must wait until it too is raised and changed to immortal and incorruptible. How does the spirit return to God in death? It is only possible through the life giving Spirit in our spirit. The natural spirit, that is no different than that of the beasts of the earth, according to Solomon is no more. And will not live again until God resurrects the natural body on the last day to be judged from the things written in the books and the book of life. Solomon likens fallen mankind to the beasts, that dies and returns to dust. Even though mankind are as beasts, destined to die, Solomon questions whether the spirit of man goes up to the Lord in heaven, or is as the beasts of the earth that goes down to the earth and is no more?

Ec 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ec 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ec 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Ec 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

The spirit of man that returns to God, is the spirit of man that has been quickened by the Spirit of God. Otherwise the spirit of man, like the body of man are like the beasts of the earth in death. They go down into silence and darkness and are remembered no more.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

So yes the spirit of man who has been quickened in life through the life giving Spirit of God, does indeed return to God when the body dies. It returns to God ALIVE, through the Spirit of God in them.

As SG has already shown us Jo 6:63 it is the Spirit that quickens our spirit, granting us eternal spiritual life through the resurrection of Christ. This is what Paul means when He tells us the last Adam (Christ) is the quickening spirit. Our spirit are quickened in life, through the Spirit of God when we believe. Then, from that moment and forever, our spirit is alive and will never die, even though our body is destined to die.

Paul says that when our natural (of flesh, like Adam) body dies it returns to the earth. But our spirit, having in life been quickened by the Spirit of God through Christ, goes a spiritual body to be with the Lord in heaven. Believers are endowed with both a natural body and a spiritual body. Because our spirit became alive to Christ when we were quickened by the Spirit in us. We were of the first man, Adam, natural and of flesh and blood, but when we were quickened by His Spirit in us to spiritual life through Christ, our spirit became like Christ, as heavenly, or belonging to the Kingdom of Heaven, with our minds, and hearts being preserved for the heavenly Kingdom. Having His Spirit in us is our guarantee that death will not keep us from being with Christ in heaven.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

2 Timothy 4:18 (KJV) And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Therefore as SG has also already shown us 2Cor 5:8 that when we are absent from our body we are present with the Lord in heaven. If Paul did not believe this, then he would not have longed to be rid of his body of death, and to be present in spiritual body with the Lord in heaven.

Php 1:21 ¶ For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Php 1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Php 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

So Christ, John and Paul are all in agreement. To live and believe in Christ, means that we NEVER die. For death simply takes us from this body of death into the presence of our Lord in heaven.

sovereigngrace · Jul 4, 2020

keras said:
Any fanciful notions of going to heaven at death, or 'glorified bodies' when Jesus Returns, are all lies, from the father of lies.

Not so! Any denial of that is a lie that comes from the father of lies - the devil.

What it means to be "quickened" in salvation

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