Status
Not open for further replies.

Word and Spirit

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
344
87
59
Sheridan
✟4,461.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Of course. Except you change the commandments yourself and believe "love" is your way out of obeying God. Yet we obey from his spirit of love, loving God and loving others. A homosexual believes that they "love" also. I'm sure Hitler thought he was loving by puritying his "race". Many people claim love, but only God defines what true love is towards him and towards others. Hence why the Ten were on two tablets, hence why he summarized them by the two great commandments of love God and love your neighbour. All these details constantly reflect each other. God could have written the commandments on 1, 3, 10 tablets. Yet he chose 2 and grouped loving God and loving man, and Jesus said 2 greatest commandments existed, what are the odds.

My way out? Don't you mean Jesus and the apostles?

The love of a homosexual is eros, whereas the love of God is agape that could lay down their life for another.

(Eros was the Greek god of love and sex)

Commandments 1-4
Believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ

Commandments 5-10
Love (agape) your neighbor as yourself.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Bob S
Upvote 0

Andre_b

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2020
512
104
43
Ottawa
✟26,357.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
My way out? Don't you mean Jesus and the apostles?

The love of a homosexual is eros, whereas the love of God is agape that could lay down their life for another.

(Eros was the Greek god of love and sex)

Commandments 1-4
Believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ

Commandments 5-10
Love (agape) your neighbor as yourself.

I agree agape love is what is needed. It's what I've told you, but you are claiming that agape love doesn't involve loving God of Commandments 1-4. What is it only 1-3? Devoting complete 1 full day to him per week isn't good? You devote time to love ones and set days/vacation to spend time with them right? What about date night with a spouse? Love goes both ways when going into a relationship.

How are Commandments 1-4 now believe in his name? So since we believe in His Son, Jesus Christ, we can bow down to a carved image of Christ since #2 is gone and been fulfilled?
 
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Nice try again though. You clearly don't understand and use all these fancy ways of trying to explain one commandment away. We are led by the Spirit in obeying God. Yet Luke clearly calls it the commandment no matter how hard you try to find scripture to change the meaning of it. Luke clearly defined it for us.

Why would Jesus say walk the way he walked if he didn't want us to keep the Sabbath by example? Contradiction there. 1 John 2:6 "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
Jesus was born under the law of Moses and was sinless. I was not born under the law of Moses and I cannot obey the law of Moses.

I can never be a Jew because a Jew is a descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

I cannot honor the Jewish Sabbath day, because the country I live in, does not honor the Sabbath day. Jesus was bound by the law of Israel to rest on the seventh day.

Jesus was circumcised under the law of Israel and I was not bound to be circumcised, under the law of my country.

Jesus honored Jewish festivals such as Pentecost and my country does not celebrate Pentecost. Or any other festival or even any day of the week.

Exodus 20:2
I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

The citizens of my country were never delivered from the land of Egypt and my ancestors were never slaves. Your commandments, the law of Moses, have no official jurisdiction over any Gentile nation.
 
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
So he said he made it holy AND sanctified it. But he didn't sanctify it?

Adams and Eve didn't rest with God is your assumption. Where they working hard? They weren't relaxing and in paradise with God?

Sanctified means for sacred religious use. Are you saying God did that for himself only and waited ~2000 years to use it? Yet Mark states that the Sabbath was MADE FOR MAN, hence why it was made AFTER MAN.
Are you saying that Adam labored in the garden?

The Sabbath commandment says to work six days then a day of rest.
 
Upvote 0

Andre_b

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2020
512
104
43
Ottawa
✟26,357.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
Are you saying that Adam labored in the garden?

The Sabbath commandment says to work six days then a day of rest.

It's the beginning, time started somehow, the same for Adam and Eve, you are going to ridiculous specifics, that are inapplicable. Should we discuss how plants survived without the sun also? God wasn't tired when he rested just like man at the beginning. Fatigue, and suffering came as a result of the fall, if it was prior to sin then he didn't need the physical rest. Spiritual fellowship with God is important though.

Just like the new heaven and new earth, from one sabbath to the next, all nation will worship God. Does that mean we need physical rest at all times. Certain specifics of the law are un-applicable depending on life's circumstances.
 
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Breaking the husk to eat it was preparing a meal according to you... Too funny. So you quote everywhere else about forgiveness of sin yet no where in those verse was Jesus agreeing with the Pharisees.

Jesus then highlighted the fact that the priests profane the Sabbath yet were blameless for doing so.
Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

Again Jesus is explaining that certain situations is not actually breaking the Sabbath. Yet you don't get it. Seems like you agree with the Pharisees that you can barely even move on the Sabbath.
Your saying that you can go where ever you want on the Sabbath day? Gee, that sounds like some oral tradition to me, probably handed down by the Pharisees. A Sabbath days journey?

How about we check what God said on this matter; can we travel on the Sabbath?

Exodus 16:29
See, the Lord has given you the sabbath; therefore He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain every man in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Now you need to prove that a Sabbath day journey is permitted under the law!
Often the Pharisees rules were based on an oral tradition that didn’t really understand the meaning of the Law.
I agree. There will be no more Sabbath day journeys.
 
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
It's the beginning, time started somehow
What, time started some how?

Your are told how time started.

You are told specifically when God rested and on what day!

Your claiming Adam worked six days then rested on the Sabbath, which is the commandment by the way.
you are going to ridiculous specifics, that are inapplicable.
So what the scripture states is not applicable if it contradicts your theology?
 
Upvote 0

Andre_b

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2020
512
104
43
Ottawa
✟26,357.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
Your saying that you can go where ever you want on the Sabbath day? Gee, that sounds like some oral tradition to me, probably handed down by the Pharisees. A Sabbath days journey?

How about we check what God said on this matter; can we travel on the Sabbath?

Exodus 16:29
See, the Lord has given you the sabbath; therefore He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain every man in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Now you need to prove that a Sabbath day journey is permitted under the law!I agree. There will be no more Sabbath day journeys.

So Jesus sinned any every other Jew sinned because they leave their residence? You are claiming Jesus sinned with that statement.

You have to be a Pharisee to believe your ridiculous statement. I'm not going to quote you another scripture regarding this because once again you quote out of context and ignore other parts of the bible. Exodus 16 was strict for that specific event because they were already murmuring and ungrateful. Sometimes you need to put your kids in a timeout.

Again you do not understand the purpose of what God was teaching the Israelites. He had to be strict at certain times. Like a parent at times you have to get stricter and stricter until in they listen. Eventually loosen up the rules after you've proven your point or they understand the reason.
 
Upvote 0

Andre_b

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2020
512
104
43
Ottawa
✟26,357.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
What, time started some how?

Your are told how time started.

You are told specifically when God rested and on what day!

Your claiming Adam worked six days then rested on the Sabbath, which is the commandment by the way.So what the scripture states is not applicable if it contradicts your theology?

Friend, you are way out there. I'm not even going to respond to this. You are doing on purpose to mock the scriptures now.

I never claimed any of these things, you are. I was saying certain parts of law are not fully in effect based on the conditions of the universe, certainly while it's being made.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Word and Spirit

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
344
87
59
Sheridan
✟4,461.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
I agree agape love is what is needed. It's what I've told you, but you are claiming that agape love doesn't involve loving God of Commandments 1-4. What is it only 1-3? Devoting complete 1 full day to him per week isn't good? You devote time to love ones and set days/vacation to spend time with them right? What about date night with a spouse? Love goes both ways when going into a relationship.

How are Commandments 1-4 now believe in his name? So since we believe in His Son, Jesus Christ, we can bow down to a carved image of Christ since #2 is gone and been fulfilled?

Jesus is God.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,584
2,203
88
Union County, TN
✟656,784.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If one feels the need to try to keep the Sabbath command given only to Israel and is now a defunct command even for Jews, there is also in that Sabbath command the command to labor six days. Since spending almost forty years rubbing elbows with SDAs who try to honor the command, I don't know of many that keep the command to labor for six days. I know of some that even limit their work week to four days. I fit into that category when I could. It was off to the lake for a great week-end boating and relaxing. My SDA friends loved to be invited.

I have a question for Andre. SDAs tell us that God also keeps the Sabbath. I would like to know which sunset time God picks out for beginning the twenty four hour period. Or, if God worships with all Sabbath keepers that would take forty eight hours to accomplish. If God also keeps the Sabbath command as man is supposedly required then He too would only be working five days a week when the command He gave to Israel said six days. What is your take on the subject. I hesitate to give my thoughts on the subject to you because you somehow oppose every post I and others write.
 
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
So Jesus sinned any every other Jew sinned because they leave their residence? You are claiming Jesus sinned with that statement.
I am not claiming anything?

You need to quote what I said, did I claim that Jesus sinned?

Exodus 16:29
See, the Lord has given you the sabbath; therefore He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain every man in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Some how and we don't know why, these rules were softened. But make no mistake on this, anyone caught working was stoned to death.
You have to be a Pharisee to believe your ridiculous statement.
I quoted from Exodus to prove that you are home bound on the sabbath. Quoting from the scripture does not mean that I am a Pharisee.
I'm not going to quote you another scripture regarding this because once again you quote out of context and ignore other parts of the bible. Exodus 16 was strict for that specific event because they were already murmuring and ungrateful. Sometimes you need to put your kids in a timeout.
That is your interpretation of the law. I do not interpret the law and I make no claims about the text.
Again you do not understand the purpose of what God was teaching the Israelites. He had to be strict at certain times. Like a parent at times you have to get stricter and stricter until in they listen. Eventually loosen up the rules after you've proven your point or they understand the reason.
I hope your not saying that God softened up the other commandments also?

That was a dangerous remark by you about the law.
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,680
8,037
US
✟1,060,367.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
I hesitate to give my thoughts on the subject to you because you somehow oppose every post I and others write.

That's not true. He doesn't oppose every post that others write.
 
Upvote 0

Cshuffle777

Active Member
May 6, 2020
215
65
64
Right there
✟13,683.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
The 4th commandment begins with the words "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." The rest is instruction and expansion. This is fairly common form in God's commands and instructions. The commandment is not about working. It is about resting. The necessity of labor was self-evident. There is no place in the Bible that suggests the other six days must all be spent in labor. Not even the Jews believe that. Even Mrs. White said that if Sunday was made a day of rest by law in certain areas, the brethren should simply do missionary work instead of gainful labor on Sunday. There is no 11th commandment.

God doesn't tire and He sustains all life and activity throughout the universe. Therefore it is impossible for Him to keep the Sabbath in the same way that man does.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Andre_b
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,584
2,203
88
Union County, TN
✟656,784.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The 4th commandment begins with the words "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." The rest is instruction and expansion. This is fairly common form in God's commands and instructions. The commandment is not about working. It is about resting. The necessity of labor was self-evident. There is no place in the Bible that suggests the other six days must all be spent in labor. Not even the Jews believe that. Even Mrs. White said that if Sunday was made a day of rest by law in certain areas, the brethren should simply do missionary work instead of gainful labor on Sunday. There is no 11th commandment.
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Sorry Shuffle but as you can plainly see it is a command from God to labor for six days. You tried to wiggle out of that fact, but didn't quite change the fact that God did give the Israelites a command to labor six days. Sorry Shuffle, I don't take my cue from Mrs White.

God doesn't tire and He sustains all life and activity throughout the universe. Therefore it is impossible for Him to keep the Sabbath in the same way that man does.
Then why does the church teach that the inhabitants of the universe keep the Sabbath along with those here on Earth? Is that just another false teaching the church tries to promote?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Word and Spirit

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
344
87
59
Sheridan
✟4,461.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Are you saying that Adam labored in the garden?

The Sabbath commandment says to work six days then a day of rest.

Adam didn't labor in the garden, but only after he sinned and was cast out of the garden, and the ground was hard and cursed with thistles.
 
Upvote 0

Cshuffle777

Active Member
May 6, 2020
215
65
64
Right there
✟13,683.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Sorry Shuffle but as you can plainly see it is a command from God to labor for six days. You tried to wiggle out of that fact, but didn't quite change the fact that God did give the Israelites a command to labor six days. Sorry Shuffle, I don't take my cue from Mrs White.
But I don't plainly see it at all, and no one teaches it at all.
Then why does the church teach that the inhabitants of the universe keep the Sabbath along with those here on Earth? Is that just another false teaching the church tries to promote?
I've never been taught that, and it is not a part of the 28, as can be plainly seen:

The Sabbath is God’s gift to us, a time for rest and restoration of our connection to God and others. It reminds us of God’s creation and Jesus’ grace.

The gracious Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God’s unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom. The Sabbath is God’s perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts. acts. (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11; Exodus 31:13-17; Leviticus 23:32; Deuteronomy 5:12-15; Isaiah 56:5-6; Isaiah 58:13-14; Ezekiel 20:12, Ezekiel 20:20; Matthew 12:1-12; Mark 1:32; Luke 4:16; Hebrews 4:1-11.)

From:
Fundamental Belief #20 of Seventh-day Adventists,
The Sabbath | Adventist.org
 
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Adam didn't labor in the garden, but only after he sinned and was cast out of the garden, and the ground was hard and cursed with thistles.
The SDA believes that Adam and Eve had the ten commandments. Hence, the SDA believes that Adam and Eve honored the Sabbath in the garden. The Sabbath commandment specifies six days of work then a day of rest, the seventh day.

Therefore, Adam and Eve must have been laboring in the garden, if they were under the Sabbath commandment!
 
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,584
2,203
88
Union County, TN
✟656,784.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
But I don't plainly see it at all, and no one teaches it at all.

I've never been taught that, and it is not a part of the 28, as can be plainly seen:
It is one of the things Ellen wrote. She had to have gotten it from her accompanying angel. She claimed her writings came from God. The questions I asked are very reasonable.

All heaven is keeping the Sabbath, but not in a listless, do-nothing way. On this day every energy of the soul should be awake, for are we not to meet with God and with Christ our Saviour? We may behold Him by faith. He is longing to refresh and bless every soul.481 {CCh 267.3}

The Sabbath is God’s gift to us, a time for rest and restoration of our connection to God and others. It reminds us of God’s creation and Jesus’ grace.
No, the Sabbath was God's gift to Israel.

Why on Earth would something like that be part of the fundamental beliefs? The one about believing the church having the gift of prophesy should be enough to satisfy you that the church believes Heaven is keeping the Sabbath too. The problem is when and how long.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Word and Spirit

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
344
87
59
Sheridan
✟4,461.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
The SDA believes that Adam and Eve had the ten commandments. Hence, the SDA believes that Adam and Eve honored the Sabbath in the garden. The Sabbath commandment specifies six days of work then a day of rest, the seventh day.

Therefore, Adam and Eve must have been laboring in the garden, if they were under the Sabbath commandment!

I was never taught that growing up in the SDA denomination. Nor have I heard anyone on the forums say anything scripturally about the law being kept before Moses, except that Abraham kept His commandments, Genesis 26:4-5.

4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

However, it has never been written that Abraham kept the Sabbath. Abraham obeyed His voice. In other words, what God told Abraham about Sarah, he believed - to a point. But finally tried to help God out by going into Hagar. Then in Galatians 4 we see that her son, Ishmael, represented the Law of Moses given on Mt. Sinai. Just as he was a son of the flesh, those laws were commandments of the flesh to be kept by the letter of the law. Isaac was the son of promise, and His laws are written on our hearts, and kept by the Spirit of Christ in us.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.