Something doesn't feel right about BLM

Ana the Ist

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You'd have a point if that was what I was claiming. But it's not. This appears to be becoming a theme...

You said that you believed blacks were getting a raw deal regarding arrests/charges.

Now....not so much?

Because statistically, one should expect two groups of people who commit the same crime at the same rate to be arrested at the same rate.

Why? Is there some sociological rule that you're following here? Or is this just because you can't imagine the almost countless factors involved?

We could look at people from the same household.....all doing the same thing....and I wouldn't expect them all to get arrested at the same rate.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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You said that you believed blacks were getting a raw deal regarding arrests/charges.

Now....not so much?
No. Read what I wrote, then read what you wrote. If you can't understand the differences, then I can't help you any further.
 
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Belk

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No, incorrect. As I said, like true Marxists they want to overthrow all existing social conditions, which is why they ask you to "Join the Movement to fight for Freedom, Liberation and Justice".

I don't see how "Join the Movement to fight for Freedom, Liberation and Justice" translates to "overthrow all existing social conditions"?

Why are they talking about freedom and liberation? Why are they concerned with immigration? Why are they concerned with the transgender cause?

Perhaps you should ask them?

Why do they want to abolish the family unit?

They don't. That was misrepresented from something they are stating.

Why do they want to "move beyond the narrow nationalism that is all too prevalent in Black communities." (You can get all this stuff and more from their various internet media.)

Given that you have at least one item that is not what they are asking for I find your claims about what can be found on their internet sites suspect.


What's all that got to do with police brutality?

Looks like they have added to their mission.

It started out as a chapter-based, member-led organization whose mission was to build local power and to intervene when violence was inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes.

In the years since, we’ve committed to struggling together and to imagining and creating a world free of anti-Blackness, where every Black person has the social, economic, and political power to thrive.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
 
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Chesterton

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Given that you have at least one item that is not what they are asking for I find your claims about what can be found on their internet sites suspect.
You suspect my claims when you posted them yourself below? Granted, they have tweaked both their American and U.K. websites since about the second week of the Floyd riots.
Looks like they have added to their mission.
They say they were Marxist from the beginning. I'm just taking their word for it.
 
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Ana the Ist

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How on earth would I know?

Why are you asking then?




I disagree that it is required. It seems to me that other countries, even ones that are armed, manage this better then us.

Like who?

We are never going to see a time when cops are 100% right no matter what. That is why I think we should rethink our strategy, not double down on one that fails so often.

There's no strategy that involves people that's successful 100% of the time. There's always human error.



Let us say instead they want this money to go to troubled communities.

That would be a lie.


Because a lack of police is not causing people to commit crimes. It might be failing to deter them but it is not a cause.

If police deter crime....more police=less crime.
 
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Belk

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You suspect my claims when you posted them yourself below? Granted, they have tweaked both their American and U.K. websites since about the second week of the Floyd riots.

They say they were Marxist from the beginning. I'm just taking their word for it.

They? They whom?
 
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Ana the Ist

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No. Read what I wrote, then read what you wrote. If you can't understand the differences, then I can't help you any further.

I posted stats....you replied, I replied.

Is your statement unrelated to the stats I posted?
 
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Belk

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Why are you asking then?

To point out that simply using murder as the only valid metric for accountability is fallacious.

Like who?

Switzerland and Finland come to mind.



There's no strategy that involves people that's successful 100% of the time. There's always human error.

Agreed. Hence why we should work to lessen the number of instances that are likely to be escelated into lethal violence.



That would be a lie.

According to whom?

If police deter crime....more police=less crime.

So we are agreed that a lack of police is not a CAUSE of crime, it can only be a LACK OF DETERRENCE of crime?
 
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Ana the Ist

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To point out that simply using murder as the only valid metric for accountability is fallacious.

If you don't know how many are valid....how do you know there isn't accountability?


Switzerland and Finland come to mind.

In Switzerland, no one is allowed to use their guns or ammo without seeking permission first...they stay locked up year round and are subject to government inspections at any time.

Since you're clueless about Switzerland, I'll just ask how much you know about Finland?



Agreed. Hence why we should work to lessen the number of instances that are likely to be escelated into lethal violence.

Well the overwhelming majority are criminals attacking police and fighting them....fix that.



According to whom?

BLM. I haven't seen any of them suggest any money go anywhere except black communities.


So we are agreed that a lack of police is not a CAUSE of crime, it can only be a LACK OF DETERRENCE of crime?

We agree that more police = less crime.
 
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rturner76

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How many were valid?
You ask how many complaints are "valid." I doubt this question is raised when considering white prisoners' complaints.

How many violations never get reported for fear of retaliation? You give a guard a problem with their job and they might sell you to another prisoner or just knock you to the ground a couple of times a day.. or steal your commissary. Prisons have their own internal politics and protection rackets. How do you think that affects the number of complaints?

We have private prisons with full-time slave labor because slavery is legal in the Department of Corrections. So that's like asking how often is your beating your own fault. We live in a civilized society and you can't just beat and choke people any longer no matter what color. Now that we see it in broad daylight on video is just a peek at what goes on.
 
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Ana the Ist

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You ask how many complaints are "valid." I doubt this question is raised when considering white prisoners' complaints.

How many violations never get reported for fear of retaliation? You give a guard a problem with their job and they might sell you to another prisoner or just knock you to the ground a couple of times a day.. or steal your commissary. Prisons have their own internal politics and protection rackets. How do you think that affects the number of complaints?

We have private prisons with full-time slave labor because slavery is legal in the Department of Corrections. So that's like asking how often is your beating your own fault. We live in a civilized society and you can't just beat and choke people any longer no matter what color. Now that we see it in broad daylight on video is just a peek at what goes on.

You seem to be talking about something else.
 
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istodolez

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They say they were Marxist from the beginning. I'm just taking their word for it.

The founders (or at least one of them while on some unknown broadcast --the video seemed strangely decontextualized--) may have said "I'm a Marxist"...that doesn't necessarily mean the movement is ipso facto Marxist in nature. I'm an existential nihilist, but I can still put together the slides of for the program check point next week and deliver them to management.

IF BLM had clear indications that the organization itself was dedicated to "Marxism" then it might be of some concern, but even then: WHAT SPECIFIC ASPECT OF MARXIST PHILOSOPHY do you think they are espousing that you would find so horrific? I don't believe Marxism by definition means turning America into a Stalinist Gulag or whatever nebulous horror you are imagining.

So if I might ask a couple key questions:

1. What, specifically, does BLM stand for that you would find MOST objectionable (don't just say "Marxism" because that's a pretty expansive term)...tell me specifically what aspect

2. Can you find THAT SPECIFIC ASPECT in their mission statement?
 
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istodolez

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BLM. I haven't seen any of them suggest any money go anywhere except black communities.

Must all movements solve everyone's problems all the time?

I'm just curious because BLM clearly states in their "About" section: "...a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada, whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes." So it seems like they have carved out their niche and are pretty open about it.

I mean Salvation Army is probably not working on String Theory either...does that make it a failed program?
 
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Belk

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If you don't know how many are valid....how do you know there isn't accountability?

Statistics and the continued cases of unarmed people dying for no good reason.



In Switzerland, no one is allowed to use their guns or ammo without seeking permission first...they stay locked up year round and are subject to government inspections at any time.

Well thank goodness all those Switzerland criminals are so law abiding.



Since you're clueless about Switzerland, I'll just ask how much you know about Finland?

Not much.

Well the overwhelming majority are criminals attacking police and fighting them....fix that.

Yes, that is the idea. Reduce the instances where criminals attack police so they do not fear for their lives constantly. Isn't that the goal? To make both sides safer?

BLM. I haven't seen any of them suggest any money go anywhere except black communities.
Your perception may be colored.


We agree that more police = less crime.
I do not agree with this. I simply pointed out that a lack of police is not a cause of crime, only a possible contingency.
 
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rambot

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Hahaha! Sorry. My typing and autocorrect work together to become truly aweful sometimes. I'm sorry to say I'm heading out camping and will just fold this discussion

If you get a break, I hope you enjoy it!!!
 
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Ana the Ist

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Must all movements solve everyone's problems all the time?

I'm just curious because BLM clearly states in their "About" section: "...a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada, whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes." So it seems like they have carved out their niche and are pretty open about it.

I mean Salvation Army is probably not working on String Theory either...does that make it a failed program?

Hey, thanks for proving the point I was making lol.
 
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