U.S. hits highest single day of new coronavirus cases

eclipsenow

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There's a reason why thieves wear masks and why armed robbery is up substantially in the last 3 months.
Really? Gee, I thought that might be because your Federal government is absent during a crisis and people are on the verge of going hungry!

The presumption that everyone around us is sick is nothing short of outrageous.
The presumption that you'll know when you are sick is nothing short of outrageous! This is a sneaky virus, and you could be infected and infectious right now and not have a clue.


We could save 35k lives a year if we banned driving.
Well, with robot-cars on the way and already safer than humans, be careful what anecdotes you use so loosely. Australia's telco Telstra had a chief scientific adviser tell the ABC that banning human driving by 2030 is not only probably going to be technically possible, but socially desirable by then. It will just save so many lives.

Or 250k a year if we banned fast food. The list is endless
Except this has a 0.5 to 1% fatality rate, so you're talking about maybe 1 to 3 MILLION Americans dying from this virus - and even higher if it spreads like wildfire and causes an overwhelmed health system. Then you might be looking at 3% or 4% fatalities.

And yet, for this virus we're following media hysteria and pretending like it's the Christian thing to do.
That's because it is the Christian thing to do! We're talking about saving someone's life here. Our Sydney Anglican church Archbishop declared all Anglican churches in NSW were going online before the government locked down New South Wales. It was simply the loving thing to do!

If you're old or immune compromised stay home. Leave the rest of us alone though.
And when all the shops and carers and hospitals and ambulances and services are infectious, how do these people... eat without getting infected?

I'm seriously convinced that the Bill of Rights isn't the best way to guarantee human rights (something I'm passionate about), but that it instead breads a culture that is individualistic, entitled, and does not know how to handle a crisis or live sacrificially for others. When someone is raised being told life is all about my right to freedom of expression, freedom of movement, freedom to do whatever I want... they forget that this also requires commitments and community to uphold. I am very sad that so many American Christians have been warped by this individualistic worldview. Many Australian Christians and Christian organisations are quite terrified of what a "Bill of Rights" would do to Australia! See here for some examples.
 
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jgarden

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You have no idea if the people around you in masks are smiling, angry or dangerous. There's a reason why thieves wear masks and why armed robbery is up substantially in the last 3 months. The presumption that everyone around us is sick is nothing short of outrageous. We could save 35k lives a year if we banned driving. Or 250k a year if we banned fast food. The list is endless and yet Christians won't push for those changes because they are absurd. And yet, for this virus we're following media hysteria and pretending like it's the Christian thing to do.

If you're old or immune compromised stay home. Leave the rest of us alone though.
No group has the constitutional right to overwhelm the healthcare system because they refuse to take preventative measures - when the Vice President suddenly starts wearing a mask and encourages the public to do likewise, such a reversal in messenging is an indicator that the Trump Administration is in full panic mode!

The Director of the CDC stated last week that for every individual testing positive there are 10 who are either asymptomatic or have chosen to ride out the disease without being hospitalized - that would place the number exposed at over 25 million!
 
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Redwingfan9

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You weren't arfuing about crippling the economy, you were arguing against wearing a face mask. You are sooooo pro life that wearing a face mask is too much asked for saving lifes.
Except according to the NIH in 2015 masks weren't effective in preventing the spread of viruses. Even the N95 masks the media waxes on about see 1 in 20 virus particles make it through. Cloth is even worse. Considering the viral load of most people with Corona, the mask is a waste of time and offers little more than a false sense of security. There's a reason why all of the masks come with a disclaimer, they don't work.
 
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Redwingfan9

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No group has the constitutional right to overwhelm the healthcare system because they refuse to take preventative measures - when the Vice President suddenly starts wearing a mask and encourages the public to do likewise, such a reversal in messenging is an indicator that the Trump Administration is in full panic mode!

The Director of the CDC stated last week that for every individual testing positive there are 10 who are either asymptomatic or have chosen to ride out the disease without being hospitalized - that would place the number exposed at over 25 million!
I'm not a Trumpster, so don't lump me in with that crowd.

I have heard anywhere from 10-20x the number of people have had Coronavirus compared to those who have tested positive. That places the number at 25-50 million. It also places the odds of death significantly lower than the media hypes. Back in May the CDC said the death rate is 0.05% for those under 50, 0.2% for those 50-64 and 1.3% for those over 65. This is a virus with a 99.6% overall survival rate. Should we really continue crippling the economy over it?
 
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TLK Valentine

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I'm not a Trumpster, so don't lump me in with that crowd.

Too late.

I have heard anywhere from 10-20x the number of people have had Coronavirus compared to those who have tested positive. That places the number at 25-50 million. It also places the odds of death significantly lower than the media hypes. Back in May the CDC said the death rate is 0.05% for those under 50, 0.2% for those 50-64 and 1.3% for those over 65. This is a virus with a 99.6% overall survival rate. Should we really continue crippling the economy over it?

I'm sure you've heard a lot of things.
 
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FreeinChrist

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Except according to the NIH in 2015 masks weren't effective in preventing the spread of viruses. Even the N95 masks the media waxes on about see 1 in 20 virus particles make it through. Cloth is even worse. Considering the viral load of most people with Corona, the mask is a waste of time and offers little more than a false sense of security. There's a reason why all of the masks come with a disclaimer, they don't work.
What study are you referring to?
 
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wing2000

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Except according to the NIH in 2015 masks weren't effective in preventing the spread of viruses. Even the N95 masks the media waxes on about see 1 in 20 virus particles make it through. Cloth is even worse. Considering the viral load of most people with Corona, the mask is a waste of time and offers little more than a false sense of security. There's a reason why all of the masks come with a disclaimer, they don't work.

Oh I see....all those other countries such as S. Korea, Taiwan, Czech Republic, etc are simply wrong.

NM
 
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Redwingfan9

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FreeinChrist

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Ok. I note this:

The trend for all outcomes showed the lowest rates of infection in the medical mask group and the highest rates in the cloth mask arm. The study design does not allow us to determine whether medical masks had efficacy or whether cloth masks were detrimental to HCWs by causing an increase in infection risk. Either possibility, or a combination of both effects, could explain our results. It is also unknown whether the rates of infection observed in the cloth mask arm are the same or higher than in HCWs who do not wear a mask, as almost all participants in the control arm used a mask. The physical properties of a cloth mask, reuse, the frequency and effectiveness of cleaning, and increased moisture retention, may potentially increase the infection risk for HCWs. The virus may survive on the surface of the facemasks,29 and modelling studies have quantified the contamination levels of masks.30 Self-contamination through repeated use and improper doffing is possible. For example, a contaminated cloth mask may transfer pathogen from the mask to the bare hands of the wearer. We also showed that filtration was extremely poor (almost 0%) for the cloth masks. Observations during SARS suggested double-masking and other practices increased the risk of infection because of moisture, liquid diffusion and pathogen retention.31 These effects may be associated with cloth masks.

We have previously shown that N95 respirators provide superior efficacy to medical masks,8 9 but need to be worn continuously in high-risk settings to protect HCWs.9

So the study was in a high-risk situation between cloth masks and medical masks like the paper ones that get thrown away. It does not include N95 respirators in the study but state that they are superior based on a different study.

The problem with cloth masks is in the cleaning. The cloth will absorb the moisture in the person's breath and collect. So they need frequent cleaning and a good detergent. Also, with all masks, hand washing and general hygiene practices go hand in hand with with wearing masks.

Until I could get better masks, I would spray my cloth mask with a water and alcohol solution after going out. The medical masks did much better when I got them as they can be disposed of.

Keep in mind that the study was done in high risk area, and that folks today are being asked to wear them in a community setting.

Personally, as an older person, a long time RN, I wear a medical mask when out, wear glasses, wash my hands frequently and use hand sanitizer and maintain a distance. The issues I have is with young folks not following those protocols, not maintaining a distance and act like 'oh, well, it is just old folks' as if they are disposable.

My daughter doesn't wear glasses for vision but when out, has a pair like this:

46F393_AS02.jpeg

The virus can get into the tissues around the eyes, too.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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My brother is a Radiologist and sent me this study several weeks ago. He indicated at the time that this was a solid study and that the stuff coming out right now has been rushed and is unreliable.
A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers

Yes, cloth masks aren’t as good as medical masks. The argument is that cloth masks are better than no mask. Do you have a study on cloth masks versus no masks? This study specifically mentions that a lack of a no mask control group was a limitation of this study.
 
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Redwingfan9

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Yes, cloth masks aren’t as good as medical masks. The argument is that cloth masks are better than no mask. Do you have a study on cloth masks versus no masks? This study specifically mentions that a lack of a no mask control group was a limitation of this study.
The point though is that if you have a massive viral load you're not really blocking much with a mask. Worse, the way people take them on and off infects their hands and they end up spreading it to everything they touch. At the end of the day the masks are nothing but a plecebo to calm the nerves of nervous nellies while giving politicians the ability to claim they're doing something while not doing anything at all.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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The point though is that if you have a massive viral load you're not really blocking much with a mask. Worse, the way people take them on and off infects their hands and they end up spreading it to everything they touch. At the end of the day the masks are nothing but a plecebo to calm the nerves of nervous nellies while giving politicians the ability to claim they're doing something while not doing anything at all.

Based on the study you gave us the researchers admit that they don’t know how much a cloth mask vs no mask helps or doesn’t help. Correct practice with a cloth mask is just as important as correct practice with a medical mask but I don’t see you railing against medical masks because people might not use them correctly. Do you have a study that shows a cloth mask is no better than no mask?
 
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Paulos23

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Except according to the NIH in 2015 masks weren't effective in preventing the spread of viruses. Even the N95 masks the media waxes on about see 1 in 20 virus particles make it through. Cloth is even worse. Considering the viral load of most people with Corona, the mask is a waste of time and offers little more than a false sense of security. There's a reason why all of the masks come with a disclaimer, they don't work.
You are assuming that if just one virus 'cell' gets through you get sick. It doesn't work that way. You have to have a much larger exposure for the virus to overwhelm the body's defenses to get a foothold in the body to even start to get sick. Plus, if an infected person has a mask and a non-infected person has a mask, the chance of the non-infected person has a smaller chance of getting infected. The chance decreases if they are practicing social distancing as well.

Masks are not an end all be all solution, but it helps reduce the risk enough that as someone that deals with risk exposure at an insurance company (not medical) I would encourage wearing a mask over not.
 
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whatbogsends

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Except according to the NIH in 2015 masks weren't effective in preventing the spread of viruses. Even the N95 masks the media waxes on about see 1 in 20 virus particles make it through. Cloth is even worse. Considering the viral load of most people with Corona, the mask is a waste of time and offers little more than a false sense of security. There's a reason why all of the masks come with a disclaimer, they don't work.

Allowing 1 in 20 virus particles to make it through is still a 95% reduction of particles which reach you. The lower the viral load you receive, the less likely you are to become infect. It's pretty poor logic to say "these mask only make you 20X safer so you shouldn't wear one at all".

We all acknowledge other masks offer less protection than the N95 masks. Even if they only filter 50% of the particles, it still reduces the viral load you receive by half, making you 2X safer.

Masks don't make on impervious to the virus, and no one is suggesting they do. They do, however, make you safer. If your standard for "working" is 100% success rate, pretty much nothing you ever do "works". I doubt you apply your standard equitably.

Moreover, you're focusing on how much a mask protects the wearer. They also limit the number of virus particles being disbursed by a carrier, as well as limiting the trajectory of that disbursement.
 
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