Blameless in the Law

Does Yahshua call us to the impossible?

  • Yes. Only Yahshua can follow the example that he called us to follow.

  • No. Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.


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HARK!

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Most people here are not confused. It's you who's confused. That's why you never answered the fact that I exposed the fact that you took one verse of scripture out of context, making it yet another one of your many failed attempts to support your view regarding obedience to Torah.

Please clear up my confusion then. You stated that I made an assertion in the OP. Please point to it, to clear up my confusion.

After you get done with that; perhaps you can explain the context of the word "blameless" in the two instances posted in the OP. Please explain how the views expressed in the OP, take this word out of context.

Thanks for your patience.
 
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HARK!

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The Law and Christ are perfect, we are not, therefore there is the provision for love, grace and faith in both. Is this simple enough for an adolescent?

I disagree, in that I believe that love preceded the law.

I believe that love is the independent variable in this equation.
 
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HARK!

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1 Corinthians 9:19–23
English Standard Version
though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. that I may share with them in its blessings.

Let's look at this verse from a literal translation:

(CLV) 1Co 9:21
to those without law as without law (not being without God's law, but legally Christ's), that I should be gaining those without law.

A good example of this, is when Paul used the temple of the unknown god to bring Pagans to YHWH.

It's an interesting topic; but it's off topic.
 
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HARK!

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Yahshua followed the Torah because He was a Jew.
Galatians 4:
1
Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all,
2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father.
3
Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world.
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

12 Brethren, I urge you to become like me, for I became like you. You have not injured me at all.
13 You know that because of physical infirmity I preached the gospel to you at the first.
14 And my trial which was in my flesh you did not despise or reject, but you received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
15 What then was the blessing you enjoyed? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me.
16 Have I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?
17 They [of the circumcision group] zealously court you, but for no good; yes, they want to exclude you, that you may be zealous for them.
18 But it is good to be zealous in a good thing always, and not only when I am present with you.
19 My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you,
20 I would like to be present with you now and to change my tone; for I have doubts about you.

They [of the circumcision group] zealously court you,
Back to the OP and Philippians 3:
2
Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation!
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh
,
4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so:
5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee;
Covenant of flesh vs. covenant of The Spirit.
Genesis 17:13.
He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

The covenant in the flesh cannot in any way supercede the new covenant in the Spirit.
Paul wouldn't let this go!
Galatians 5
:
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
7
You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?
8
This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you.
9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
10I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.
11
And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased.
12 I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!
13
For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
Oh my. Paul wishes that those who trouble them to be emasculated/castrated! Ouch!
Who were these troublemakers? Paul withstood them.
Galatians 2:
3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised
.
4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),
5 to whom we did not yield submission even for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
Who sent out these troublemakers?
Acts 15:
1
And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”
2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.
On to Jerusalem.
5
. But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
This sect of the Pharisees were usurpers. No one put them in charge. Peter, James, John, Paul and Barnabas all withstood them. And yet the spirit of the Pharisees lives on in Jews professing to be for Jesus who teach gentiles the same doctrine, and many gentiles back them and have defiled many.

Nothing that you posted proves your false opening statement.
 
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HARK!

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So these are the options:
  1. Yes. Only Yahshua can follow the example that he called us to follow.
  2. No. Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.
I'm confused with this discussion because aren't these choices the same thing?

Yes and no are not the same thing.

Imitating someone, and being incapable of imitating someone , are two different things.
 
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HARK!

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I'm not going to take your posts seriously until you stop using the CLV translation.
This is the worst translation I have ever seen. The translators definitely have a hidden agenda and I'm not even sure I know what it is.

Philippians 3:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law blameless.


Luke 1:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Matthew 5:48 King James Version (KJV)
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.





 
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Ilikecats

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(CLV) Php 3:6
in acrelation to zeal, persecuting the ecclesia, in acrelation to the righteousness which is in law, becoming blameless.


(CLV) Lk 1:5
There came to be, in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zechariah, of the routine of Abiah, and his wife, of the daughters of Aaron, and her name is Elizabeth.

(CLV) Lk 1:6
Now they were both just in front of God, going in all the precepts and just statutes of the Lord, blameless.

Who says it's impossible?

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Does Yahshua call us to the impossible?
Well as Christians we are called to live holy lives. However we are still able to sin and transgress God’s Laws. What guides us is not ourselves but the Holy Spirit. This process of sanctification is not instantaneous so a Christian will not be perfect upon salvation.
 
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HARK!

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Jesus came to fulfil the law. According to the religious leaders, he didn't follow all of it though - he touched dead bodies, lepers and a bleeding woman, which would have made him ceremonially unclean,

Being unclean is not breaking the law.

he healed on the Sabbath

Not against the law. Even your own body, created in the image of YHWH, heals itself on Shabbat.

his disciples picked corn on the Sabbath.

Eating is not breaking sabbath.

He also taught that nothing which goes into a person's mouth makes them unclean.

No he didn't. He taught that you don't have to wash your hands according to the Talmud, in order to eat bread.

And he never said to Gentiles; "when you follow me, that means keeping the whole of the Jewish law."

That's right. He called for those who believe in him to follow him. He followed the Torah, not Jewish law.
 
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fhansen

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(CLV) Php 3:6
in acrelation to zeal, persecuting the ecclesia, in acrelation to the righteousness which is in law, becoming blameless.


(CLV) Lk 1:5
There came to be, in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zechariah, of the routine of Abiah, and his wife, of the daughters of Aaron, and her name is Elizabeth.

(CLV) Lk 1:6
Now they were both just in front of God, going in all the precepts and just statutes of the Lord, blameless.

Who says it's impossible?

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Does Yahshua call us to the impossible?
God, alone, can make us just or righteous. This occurs via faith, as through it we enter the first and primary aspect of justice or righteousness for man: relationship or communion with God.
"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3

And this is why we can still be judged by the Law according to Rom 2 even as the Law, itself, cannot posibly justify us. Only God can do that as per the New Covenant prophecy of Jer 31:33
 
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Strong in Him

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Being unclean is not breaking the law.


Not against the law. Even your own body, created in the image of YHWH, heals itself on Shabbat.

I said, "according to the religious leaders". They were unhappy about it; they complained that he healed on the Sabbath.


Eating is not breaking sabbath.

I said that they picked corn, Matthew 12:1. Luke says that they also rubbed them between their hands, Luke 6:1. The Pharisees asked, "why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?" Luke 6:2.

No he didn't. He taught that you don't have to wash your hands according to the Talmud, in order to eat bread.

He said, "NOTHING which goes into a person's mouth can make them unclean". Mark added the comment "in saying this, he declared all foods to be clean", Mark 7:19. The apostle Peter, who was there at the time, was one of the main sources for Mark's Gospel. If that comment had been incorrect, I doubt Mark would have been allowed to write it.

That's right. He called for those who believe in him to follow him.

But not to the extent of having to be circumcised and obeying the Torah.
Again, do you wear robes and speak Aramaic? Jesus did - or are you selective about the extent to which you follow him?

He followed the Torah, not Jewish law.

I thought Jewish law was written in the Torah?
I thought the Torah contained Exodus and Leviticus?
 
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Strong in Him

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God’s law and Jewish law are 2 different things

Christ did not obey and follow Jewish law

He kept & taught obedience to the law of Moses & God.

What's the difference then?
Weren't animal sacrifice, keeping he Sabbath, not eating certain foods and so on not part of the law given to Moses that is written in Exodus and Leviticus?

it doesn’t biblically make sense to follow someone and not do what they do. That’s what makes you a follower. You do what the person you are following does.

So you are circumcised, observe all the OT festivals, wear robes and sandals and speak Aramaic?
Following, and practising, what Jesus said and taught is not the same as copying everything he did, or adopting his lifestyle as a Jewish man. Otherwise women would never be able to follow him.
 
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Strong in Him

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I'm not going to take your posts seriously until you stop using the CLV translation.
This is the worst translation I have ever seen. The translators definitely have a hidden agenda and I'm not even sure I know what it is.

I've been Googling this, because I didn't know what the CLT was.
Apparently it was produced by a man who strongly believed in Universalism.
 
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Dkh587

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What's the difference then?
Weren't animal sacrifice, keeping he Sabbath, not eating certain foods and so on not part of the law given to Moses that is written in Exodus and Leviticus?



So you are circumcised, observe all the OT festivals, wear robes and sandals and speak Aramaic?
Following, and practising, what Jesus said and taught is not the same as copying everything he did, or adopting his lifestyle as a Jewish man. Otherwise women would never be able to follow him.
God’s law = the law of Moses, the law of Yahweh

Jewish law = the traditions of the elders talked about in the NT, now called the Talmud and Mishnah

you are conflating the 2.

God’s law is not Jewish law.

following Messiah would include obedience to God’s law - again, it does not scripturally make sense to follow someone’s example of obedience to God’s law to God and then not actually obey God’s law and say we are following his example.

Following someone biblically means that you live like them.

Paul taught us to follow him as he follows Messiah - in other words, live like him as he lives like Messiah
 
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Dkh587

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I'm not going to take your posts seriously until you stop using the CLV translation.
This is the worst translation I have ever seen. The translators definitely have a hidden agenda and I'm not even sure I know what it is.
It’s a literal version - just curious, what translation do you prefer? I can respect the CLV agenda of bringing out the meaning of the text, with the available resources we have. Sometimes it doesn’t make sense, but we are translating languages. Things don’t perfectly translate.

Most English translations have an agenda, whether visible or hidden.
 
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Scott Husted

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It’s a literal version - just curious, what translation do you prefer? I can respect the CLV agenda of bringing out the meaning of the text, with the available resources we have. Sometimes it doesn’t make sense, but we are translating languages. Things don’t perfectly translate.

Most English translations have an agenda, whether visible or hidden.

Perception is key from the beginning ...
 
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