98cwitr

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In a representative democracy, the gov't isn't the middle man; they are us.

Nah, they aint us. I'm me, you're you, they're them. Does Trump represent you?

No need to fuel crony capitalists in the grocery and farming industries by shoveling tax dollars into WIC/SNAP so they can profit, raise the price of food for everyone, and then sow false virtue into the hearts of people who think they're doing the right thing. Rather, we should cancel programs that keep people in poverty and help the poor and needy directly.
 
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Quartermaine

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They do, they just do it without government. There's no need for a middle man when you can help the poor directly and in secret.
would that same help extend to the nice elderly gay couple across the street?
 
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Quartermaine

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Nah, they aint us. I'm me, you're you, they're them. Does Trump represent you?
The president represents all of the people. Though Trump does a poor job of it

No need to fuel crony capitalists in the grocery and farming industries by shoveling tax dollars into WIC/SNAP so they can profit, raise the price of food for everyone, and then sow false virtue into the hearts of people who think they're doing the right thing. Rather, we should cancel programs that keep people in poverty and help the poor and needy directly.
what's stopping you?
 
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98cwitr

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FireDragon76

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Absolutely. And we should always remember that society is made up of many people of various beliefs or non belief. Some people might think that people are damned and others might not think that those people are damned at all.


This bit I think is a bit wrong.

Maybe I could be considered as socially liberal???
I consider that society is made up of many different people from different backgrounds, different cultures, with different beliefs. I think this is a great thing about society. Diversity is good. Rather than being shocked at the differences of our neighbors perhaps we ought to be respectful, tolerant and non judgemental? This is not to say that we ought to agree with what people are doing, or promote what people are doing. But instead, take a stance that if it doesn't hurt us and doesn't damage society, then we should just mind our own business.

I don't see it as an "accept homosexuality" thing.
I think we should accept our neighbors no matter what lifestyle they have. We are accepting of people rather than of practices. We accept our neighbors, show them respect, be kind, and not judge.

Treat people as people, as if "all lives matter". People have the right to a means of income. Homosexuals need to buy a house, need to buy food, buy clothes just like non homosexuals. We just shouldn't label people as homosexuals or hetrosexuals, instead, label them as "people". Be respectful, kind and considerate of people.
I hope I'm making my point clear here.

Employing a homosexual, isn't an endorsement of homosexuality. It is merely recognition that a person is needed to do a job and a qualified person is being hired to do the job.
If a person has an internal aversion or distaste of homosexuals, then this is their own personal challenge to overcome. To see those people as people rather than as "homosexuals", to treat them as equals, to give them charity, to give them kindness and not to judge. Wouldn't that be in accordance to Christianities values?



Could "atheism" then also be considered a public health issue? or what about all those other religions that aren't the same as the prime minister or the president's? are they all to be considered public health issues that must be solved in the national interest?



But remember that society is made up of all sorts of people. Not everyone believes in god, or your particular god.
How do we go about living our lives in a diverse society? How do we play nicely (and respectingly) together?


Sure but, there are other ways rather than to ostricise, shun and shame others.

You can teach your values to your children.
You can try and convince people to become Christians, once they do that they will start to adhere to the Christian rules.
But, please remember that society is made up of people that don't believe what you do.

Anyway, my message above isn't a personal message to you. It is directed at anyone who reads it.
You seem like a reasonable person.

I'm an odd one to make this argument, because I reject almost all elements of it. But I think it's important for you to understand the position. (And CF rules don't actually allow us to look at your arguments in detail anyway, except in a couple of forums where you can't post.)

People don't act in a vacuum. The culture around them affects what they do and how they react to their feelings. If you read postings on this topic, the problem is that homosexuality is being "normalized." That is, it's becoming accepted. Suppose it wasn't, as has been true for most of the history of our country. Even if you believe that there's a more or less unchangeable sexual orientation (and not all conservatives do), you don't have to act on it. You can be celibate, marry someone of the opposite gender even though you're not really attracted to them, or pray to God to change your orientation. (Plenty of people in CF report such changes happening.) The general acceptance of homosexuality surely causes people to engage in same-gender sex who otherwise might not have.

So the issue isn't so much individual behaviors. Those can be forgiven, and people have a right to damn themselves anyway. It's things that cause the culture to accept homosexuality. Think of it as a public health issue, a cultural change that results in people being damned who might otherwise be saved. Or at least engaging in behavior that God (supposedly) strongly disapproves of.

The fact is, homosexuality actually has been normalized in much of the country, in a relative short amount of time. Even many Christians think it's OK. If I thought it led to eternal punishment, this would really bother me.

In the conservative Christian worldview, lots of things potentially lead to eternal punishment, but you don't see the kind of fervor against those things that you do against homosexuality.

There's no indication that what she said is more than describing someone as her wife. I know enough people here that would consider it teaching inappropriate sexual content just to say "yes, women can marry other women"

It's strange people would see that as a value judgement, when it's a matter of legal fact.
 
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FireDragon76

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They do, they just do it without government. There's no need for a middle man when you can help the poor directly and in secret.

That's only meaningful if you believe in the public/private dichotomy of conservative Protestants. Otherwise, the way I see it, it doesn't matter where the help comes from. The important thing is that humans have needs, humans are social beings, and we live in a larger society and not as mere individuals.
 
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essentialsaltes

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This is the crux of the current fight over school vouchers. Some areas do provide public vouchers to private schools, including religious schools in some cases.

Speaking of which... Supreme Court just ruled that Montana's plan cannot exclude religious schools.

"A State need not subsidize private education. But once a State decides to do so, it cannot disqualify some private schools solely because they are religious," Roberts wrote in the majority opinion.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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I know two non-believers teaching in Christian private schools. They just lied to get the job and are waiting for a better opportunity.
Oh great...not only nonbelievers but also bald-faced liars, teaching (mostly) Christian kids.

Ugh.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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I don't understand what point you are making here.

What has this got to do with discriminating against employees or customers?
If a woman teacher is teaching maths according to the curriculum to her students, what does it matter if she is a solo mum, or if her husband has had a prior divorce, or if she is in a relationship with another woman. The kids don't need to know any of that stuff and it doesn't affect her ability to teach math.
She has the right to employment.

If only. I do not recall ever knowing if any teacher I had was married or not, had kids or not...anything. Teachers stuck to the subject matter. They didn't insert their personal lives and beliefs into everything.

Why can't anyone just keep his/her business to himself anymore? You are there to do subject-related job, and that job is NOT indoctrination.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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If only. I do not recall ever knowing if any teacher I had was married or not, had kids or not...anything. Teachers stuck to the subject matter. They didn't insert their personal lives and beliefs into everything.

Why can't anyone just keep his/her business to himself anymore? You are there to do subject-related job, and that job is NOT indoctrination.

I cannot think of a single teacher I had that I couldn’t tell you their marital status and whether or not they had kids.
 
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Caliban

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Oh great...not only nonbelievers but also bald-faced liars, teaching (mostly) Christian kids.

Ugh.
Ya, lots of people lie about believing in god. People treat you horribly when they find out you don't. Especially coworkers and family.
 
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Belk

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I want my kids educated rather than fed propaganda and indoctrinated into degeneracy. This isn't just LBGT issues, but the promotion of heterosexual immorality is rampant, including easy divorce. My wife and I are ultimately responsible for our children, whom God has made us stewards over. We must raise them to know Him, love Him, and therefore adhere to God's Will and moral law/objectivity.

I will give your beliefs the same consideration I do those who believe mixed race marriages are "degeneracy". You are fine to hold your personal beliefs and teach then to your children but no one should be required to conform themselves in public to your views. I see no reason why anyone should hide whom they are because of your interpretation of scripture.
 
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