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TribulationSigns

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Sigh...

I think you need to read the Scripture little more bit before asking some stupid questions.

First, Daniel 9:24 clearly said that the 70 weeks is about God and His People only. He did not prophesy about Romans or some so-called antichrist in the future. The subject is Messiah and His People Israel. Period.

Now Messiah the Prince per context is Jesus Christ. His people are the Jews - the people of His Congregation at that time. Didn't Christ tell the Jews that they will be the one will come and destroy him by destroying the city and the sanctuary which his body represents? Haven't you read the Scripture?

John 2:18-21 KJV
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

Jesus prophesied that His people, Jews, will destroy the city and the sanctuary (in which his body represents - the congregation of Israel with the Jews as the builders who have rejected their Messiah the Prince!) and in three days Christ will raise it and rebuilt it! Do you even know what this temple is?! Hello?

This the answer to your foolish question. What do you suppose what temple did Christ actually talk about?! This is what Daniel 9:26 referred to! It is the Jews, the people of the prince (Christ), who have rejected Christ and put him to death. By doing this, they have destroyed their congregation as a kingdom representation by rejecting their Messiah the Prince. Get it? No? Again, didn't you read the Scripture?

Matthew 21:42-43 KJV
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Speaking to the Jews, Jesus told them that they will reject him, put him to death, and as a result, the kingdom representative was taken from them and gave it to another. Gave it to who? The one that Christ rebuilt in three days as He prophesied?! With Christ's resurrection, the New Testament congregation of Israel was born...with Christians now being the builders of that time ever since!

Again, didn't you read the Scripture?

Ephesians 2:19-22 KJV
[19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
[20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
[21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
[22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Hello?! This is the very temple that Christ rebuilt in three days after the Cross?! The temple of Old (representing Old Testament Congregation of Israel) fell along with the Death of the Messiah the Prince, but in three days, He has rebuilt it where it is "NOW" a chief cornerstone of that Building! Christians have been builders of that HOLY TEMPLE since Pentecost. This is the Holy City. Not made with hand!

And this is the New Testament Congregation of Israel that Christ gave the kingdom representative to! Wake up and read your Scripture carefully instead of asking silly questions if you do not know to compare Scripture with Scripture. Take off your binders of Dispensational lies.

If you can't accept these biblical truths, not my problem. I only testify what the Word of God says. All I can say is that you need to edify yourself with this study.
 
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shilohsfoal

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Sigh...

I think you need to read the Scripture little more bit before asking some stupid questions.

First, Daniel 9:24 clearly said that the 70 weeks is about God and His People only. He did not prophesy about Romans or some so-called antichrist in the future. The subject is Messiah and His People Israel. Period.

Now Messiah the Prince per context is Jesus Christ. His people are the Jews - the people of His Congregation at that time. Didn't Christ tell the Jews that they will be the one will come and destroy him by destroying the city and the sanctuary which his body represents? Haven't you read the Scripture?

John 2:18-21 KJV
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

Jesus prophesied that His people, Jews, will destroy the city and the sanctuary (in which his body represents - the congregation of Israel with the Jews as the builders who have rejected their Messiah the Prince!) and in three days Christ will raise it and rebuilt it! Do you even know what this temple is?! Hello?

This the answer to your foolish question. What do you suppose what temple did Christ actually talk about?! This is what Daniel 9:26 referred to! It is the Jews, the people of the prince (Christ), who have rejected Christ and put him to death. By doing this, they have destroyed their congregation as a kingdom representation by rejecting their Messiah the Prince. Get it? No? Again, didn't you read the Scripture?

Matthew 21:42-43 KJV
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Speaking to the Jews, Jesus told them that they will reject him, put him to death, and as a result, the kingdom representative was taken from them and gave it to another. Gave it to who? The one that Christ rebuilt in three days as He prophesied?! With Christ's resurrection, the New Testament congregation of Israel was born...with Christians now being the builders of that time ever since!

Again, didn't you read the Scripture?

Ephesians 2:19-22 KJV
[19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
[20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
[21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
[22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Hello?! This is the very temple that Christ rebuilt in three days after the Cross?! The temple of Old (representing Old Testament Congregation of Israel) fell along with the Death of the Messiah the Prince, but in three days, He has rebuilt it where it is "NOW" a chief cornerstone of that Building! Christians have been builders of that HOLY TEMPLE since Pentecost. This is the Holy City. Not made with hand!

And this is the New Testament Congregation of Israel that Christ gave the kingdom representative to! Wake up and read your Scripture carefully instead of asking silly questions if you do not know to compare Scripture with Scripture. Take off your binders of Dispensational lies.

If you can't accept these biblical truths, not my problem. I only testify what the Word of God says. All I can say is that you need to edify yourself with this study.


You are so confused..
Maybe you should try your replacement theogy elsewhere.I'm not going to reply to you anymore.
 
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TribulationSigns

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You are so confused.
The abomination of desolation is not placed by the Jews. It is placed by the armed forces.

Seriously?! Can't you read and find out exactly what abomination of desolation is?!

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Daniel 9:26 deals with Old Testament Congregation of Israel, the Jews, who came and cut of their Messiah the Prince, and as a result, their kingdom representative taken from them. Therefore, desolation has come upon old testament congregation. Selah!

But at the same time, Christ has confirmed a covenant with his blood. For who? The very temple that Christ rebuilt in three days, remember? This is who Christ has confirmed a covenant with which lasted from Cross to the consummation! Not 7 years! Selah!

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.​

Oh mine, this is the New Testament congregation that Messiah the Prince has confirmed a covenant with for a week. Now, tell me what do you even know exactly what is the abomination of desolation, spoke of Daniel the prophet, really is that sits in the New Testament congregation?

Matthew 24:15 KJV
[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

See? The KEY to understand what Christ said is to have spiritual understanding! This calls for wisdom of Christ - whoso readeth, let him understand what holy place Christ talked about! It will NOT be a physical Jewish temple, but the temple of the New Testament Congregation on this side of the Cross. This is where the abomination of desolation stands it in the end prior to Second Coming after the testimony of Two Witnesses is finished. Now tell me what abomination of desolation is it? A statue of Antichrist sitting upon Temple Mount in Jerusalem? You are funny if you think so!
 
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Rachel20

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Replacement Theology is not a phrase that is in the Bible. It is a phrase conjured up by those opposed to the truth of God's very own words concerning the Church and Israel, and it's meant to obfuscate the "real" issue.

Bible is not a word that is in the Bible. As far as being conjured up to oppose truth (per your interpretation?), you have to ignore much of scripture to believe that.

Hebrews 8:9-10
  • "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
  • For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"
The New Covenant with Israel is NOT with a physical nation, but with a spiritual people whom God has put His laws into their mind and written them in their hearts. Period! It NEVER was an everlasting Covenant with a physical nation (nor could it be), and so the idea of replacement of a nation is null and void! The nation only outwardly "represented" God's people, and clearly, according to God's Word, that was subject to conditions. I have already given you countless scriptures illustrating that.

The Palestinian covenant was a conditional covenant (Deut 30:1-10) based on Israel's repentance. The Abrahamic (Gen12), Land (Gen 15,17), Davidic (2 Sam 7, Psalm 89), and Everlasting (Jer 31:31) covenants are non-conditional.

Far from being blessed people, God has pronounced judgment upon the Nation of Israel.

Israel has paid double for her sins (Isaiah 40:2), but she is also to be comforted. Why? Because as Paul said, if the wild branch can be grafted in, how much more so the natural branch that was cut off? The Abrahamic covenant, being unilateral and unconditional (God alone passes between the pieces Gen 16:6-21) must be kept. The promise to "bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee" is the basis for the coming "Sheep and Goat Judgment" of the nations (Matthew 25:31-46). The promise to bless all families in the earth in Abraham is seen in Jesus lineage and summed in his words "Salvation is of the Jews". All salvation is through this seed of Abraham - through Christ. It is a spiritual salvation, yes, but that doesn't prevent God's dealing with Israel as a nation.

And I will make of thee a great nation,
and I will bless thee,
and make thy name great;
and thou shalt be a blessing:
And I will bless them that bless thee,
and curse him that curseth thee:
and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. Genesis 12:2-3

Matthew 21:42-43
  • "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
  • Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
taken from them, yes, until the time that "all Israel should be saved" (Romans 11:25-26). Thus Christ says, when overlooking Jerusalem, "you shall see me no more till you say 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" (Matthew 23:39). Israel will repent and admit their offense (Hosea 5:15). This is a pre-requisite for the Lord's return found in both Matthew and Hosea and both deal with national Israel.
 
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danielmears

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In Daniel 12:1,Daniel is told, "at that time your people(who's names are written) shall be delivered". Who is Daniels people that shall be delivered? Does Daniels people consist of communist China? Does Daniels people consist of Cubans and Swedes? Or is Daniel's people a group of people in Israel at that time?

Daniel 12:1 KJV: And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
In Daniel 12:1,Daniel is told, "at that time your people(who's names are written) shall be delivered". Who is Daniels people that shall be delivered? Does Daniels people consist of communist China? Does Daniels people consist of Cubans and Swedes? Or is Daniel's people a group of people in Israel at that time?

Daniel 12:1 KJV: And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Daniel's people refer to, the faithful. Those whose names are written in the book of life are the church or the faithful! Farther on in Daniel it tells us this, Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried, but the wicked shall do wickedly and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. Daniel 12:10 The wicked cannot fathom that we are living in a spiritual system where all things move according to spiritual law even if you do not believe it. I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to the fruit of his doings. Jere. 12:10
 
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Douggg

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Well, you say it is. But when I see the abomination of desolation placed in Jerusalem by the armed forces of the north, I might go buy me a burger and fries Insted of fleeing for safety as those in Judea.
Im a long way from Armegeddon Israel.
Do you understand these verses as being restricted to Jerusalem?
Revelation 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
 
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shilohsfoal

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Daniel's people refer to, the faithful. Those whose names are written in the book of life are the church or the faithful! Farther on in Daniel it tells us this, Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried, but the wicked shall do wickedly and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. Daniel 12:10 The wicked cannot fathom that we are living in a spiritual system where all things move according to spiritual law even if you do not believe it. I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to the fruit of his doings. Jere. 12:10

So what if when the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem and your not delivered at that time.Will it bother you if you were not there to be delivered?
 
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danielmears

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So what if when the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem and your not delivered at that time.Will it bother you if you were not there to be delivered?
If you believe, you are already delivered and God is with us wherever we are.
 
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shilohsfoal

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Brian Mcnamee

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According to Daniel the king of the norths military occupies Jerusalem for 42 months before they place the abomination of desolation there.That's when daniel says the resurrection takes place.

In Revelation the saints who are resurected in the first resurrection are reigning with Christ in Jerusalem before the last resurrection.

Are you positive the resurrection daniel wrote of is the last?If that were true then Christ and the saints who reign with him would flee from the Abomination if desolation. Do you honestly believe Christ and those who reign with him for 1000 years would flee from anything?
you have the facts wrong after the 1000 years are over Satan is loosed and gathers an army and surrounds the city and then fire comes down and that is it. There is no fleeing at that time. The fleeing comes in Rev 13 which is 2 Thes 2 man of sin being revealed and beast gains power over the whole earth for 42 months with the mark and image of the beast rolled out then. This is when it is time to flee.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Sigh...

I think you need to read the Scripture little more bit before asking some stupid questions.

First, Daniel 9:24 clearly said that the 70 weeks is about God and His People only. He did not prophesy about Romans or some so-called antichrist in the future. The subject is Messiah and His People Israel. Period.

Now Messiah the Prince per context is Jesus Christ. His people are the Jews - the people of His Congregation at that time. Didn't Christ tell the Jews that they will be the one will come and destroy him by destroying the city and the sanctuary which his body represents? Haven't you read the Scripture?

John 2:18-21 KJV
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

Jesus prophesied that His people, Jews, will destroy the city and the sanctuary (in which his body represents - the congregation of Israel with the Jews as the builders who have rejected their Messiah the Prince!) and in three days Christ will raise it and rebuilt it! Do you even know what this temple is?! Hello?

This the answer to your foolish question. What do you suppose what temple did Christ actually talk about?! This is what Daniel 9:26 referred to! It is the Jews, the people of the prince (Christ), who have rejected Christ and put him to death. By doing this, they have destroyed their congregation as a kingdom representation by rejecting their Messiah the Prince. Get it? No? Again, didn't you read the Scripture?

Matthew 21:42-43 KJV
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Speaking to the Jews, Jesus told them that they will reject him, put him to death, and as a result, the kingdom representative was taken from them and gave it to another. Gave it to who? The one that Christ rebuilt in three days as He prophesied?! With Christ's resurrection, the New Testament congregation of Israel was born...with Christians now being the builders of that time ever since!

Again, didn't you read the Scripture?

Ephesians 2:19-22 KJV
[19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
[20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
[21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
[22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Hello?! This is the very temple that Christ rebuilt in three days after the Cross?! The temple of Old (representing Old Testament Congregation of Israel) fell along with the Death of the Messiah the Prince, but in three days, He has rebuilt it where it is "NOW" a chief cornerstone of that Building! Christians have been builders of that HOLY TEMPLE since Pentecost. This is the Holy City. Not made with hand!

And this is the New Testament Congregation of Israel that Christ gave the kingdom representative to! Wake up and read your Scripture carefully instead of asking silly questions if you do not know to compare Scripture with Scripture. Take off your binders of Dispensational lies.

If you can't accept these biblical truths, not my problem. I only testify what the Word of God says. All I can say is that you need to edify yourself with this study.
you know every single theme of the literal futurist view is in play with current events right now so your dismissal of this view is blinding you to the fact that a one world government is coming and the 3rd temple will also be real with the return of the sacrifice coming. This makes the AOD a future event and all scenarios extracted with a literal interpretation a very serious possibility. If I cut and pasted all the before and after scriptures relating to this for Israel and the world it is a very clear picture. You might take your own advise and look a little closer with an open mind that perhaps these things might actually be coming to pass.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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In Daniel 12:1,Daniel is told, "at that time your people(who's names are written) shall be delivered". Who is Daniels people that shall be delivered? Does Daniels people consist of communist China? Does Daniels people consist of Cubans and Swedes? Or is Daniel's people a group of people in Israel at that time?

Daniel 12:1 KJV: And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
God is awesome in power and might and every world of prophecy will come to pass. There is no one like Him who proclaims the end from the beginning and calls the things that will come to pass with certainty. After the resurrection Jesus met the two disciples on the road and opened the scriptures to them so they could see all the things written in the law and prophets how the Christ had to come and die and be raised again. Their hearts burned with in them when it was opened to them. The events of the 2nd coming will produce much the same sort of unveiling.
The focus on the events of Daniel 12 will certainly integrate into the many layers of the prophetic view and they will all be in harmony. One snag I see is Israel being isolated from the world in these events and my Bible shows Israel like the lead character having many more specific details given regarding them while indeed these events are occurring all over the globe. Some have brought in Zech 14 and other passages that bring you to the day Michael stands up to deliver. There are a few other places to bring in for more clarity and one is the day of Jacobs trouble which if you read Jer 30-31 you see it extends the day of Jacobs trouble to the end of chapter 31 where the city Jerusalem will need to be rebuilt at a time when dead bodies are all around and from that time on it will be holy and never torn down again. Now this is a change a before and after picture that is what Dan 12 is about. Jesus in Luke 1 is supposed to do what in His ministry?
67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:
68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited and redeemed His people,
69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
In the house of His servant David,
70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
Who have been since the world began,
71 That we should be saved from our enemies
And from the hand of all who hate us,
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
74 To grant us that we,
Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life.

This is what happens at teh 2nd coming, Zech 12 the dead bodies will be there and Jerusalem will need to be rebuilt and from then on it will never be torn down again. They Daniels people Israel will be saved Israel!. They will be born again and part of the new covenant. They are delivered just like LUke 1 says. Hosea 1 notes in the place where it was said not my people they will be called the sons of the living God. This is the day of Jezreel which is another name for Armageddon. All of these things you can keep piling on to see the greatness of the before and after picture and the glorious things the LORD accomplishes through the 2nd climax of the Bible that the savior who was sacrifices for sin comes in power and authority and crushes the head of the serpent and reigns over the world in righteousness and redeems the Jews finally. Like Joseph revelaing himself to his brothers with love and restoration and grace so to is Israel the nation shown the same grace and it is wonderful.
 
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shilohsfoal

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you have the facts wrong after the 1000 years are over Satan is loosed and gathers an army and surrounds the city and then fire comes down and that is it. There is no fleeing at that time. The fleeing comes in Rev 13 which is 2 Thes 2 man of sin being revealed and beast gains power over the whole earth for 42 months with the mark and image of the beast rolled out then. This is when it is time to flee.

You said you believe Daniels resurrection is the last.
If Daniels resurrection were the last resurrection then the saints would not be ruling with Christ. The beast would be ruling Jerusalem as seen in Daniel.

If Daniels resurrection were the first resurrection then the armed forces of the northwould be in Jerusalem when christ comes and casts the beast and false into the lake of fire. Then the saints would reign with Christ for 1000 years when Gog invades Israel. . Then the second resurrection takes place.
 
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TribulationSigns

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You might take your own advise and look a little closer with an open mind that perhaps these things might actually be coming to pass.

Not going to happen.

The only theological scholars that I listen to are those who bear testimony to what the Word of God actually says, not those speculating about the middle east, Holy Temples, the common market, Russian tanks, Iraq, the holy land, one world governments, unity of the world coming against Israel with bombs and guns. I'm not interested in fables, dreams, visions, the ramblings of TV Evangelicals, or wild political speculations. It is "they" who are making things up, not I.

Revelation 16:14
  • "For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."
Satan is not loosed to gather his army against the nation of Israel, he is gathering them together to fight against "His People," who are the saints of the church. He is at enmity with the church and his mission is to bring abominations into it that it might become desolate. Much like what Christ said he did with regards to the Old Testament church represented by Jerusalem.

Luke 13:34-35
  • "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
  • Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."
And true to His Word, the Old Testament church was left desolate in Christ's victory over Satan. Should we think the New Testament church is any better to escape God's judgment when they kill the two witnesses, kill the Lord's two prophets, and stone those that are sent as His Messengers? I think not.

Go ahead and pitch your lawn chair in the sands of Middle East thinking something will happen to national Israel while the churches all over the world are falling into desolation. You totally missed it. You got wrong Israel to begin with. People like you are as blind as Jews of Old who were expecting a literal kingdom, a physical temple, blah blah blah.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Not going to happen.

The only theological scholars that I listen to are those who bear testimony to what the Word of God actually says, not those speculating about the middle east, Holy Temples, the common market, Russian tanks, Iraq, the holy land, one world governments, unity of the world coming against Israel with bombs and guns. I'm not interested in fables, dreams, visions, the ramblings of TV Evangelicals, or wild political speculations. It is "they" who are making things up, not I.

Revelation 16:14
  • "For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."
Satan is not loosed to gather his army against the nation of Israel, he is gathering them together to fight against "His People," who are the saints of the church. He is at enmity with the church and his mission is to bring abominations into it that it might become desolate. Much like what Christ said he did with regards to the Old Testament church represented by Jerusalem.

Luke 13:34-35
  • "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
  • Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."
And true to His Word, the Old Testament church was left desolate in Christ's victory over Satan. Should we think the New Testament church is any better to escape God's judgment when they kill the two witnesses, kill the Lord's two prophets, and stone those that are sent as His Messengers? I think not.

Go ahead and pitch your lawn chair in the sands of Middle East thinking something will happen to national Israel while the churches all over the world are falling into desolation. You totally missed it. You got wrong Israel to begin with. People like you are as bling as Jews of Old who were expecting a literal kingdom, a physical temple, blah blah blah.
Hi Jer 32 presents a bit of a paradox for you. 36 “Now therefore, thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, concerning this city of which you say, ‘It shall be delivered into the hand of the king of Babylon by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence: 37 Behold, I will gather them out of all countries where I have driven them in My anger, in My fury, and in great wrath; I will bring them back to this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely. 38 They shall be My people, and I will be their God; 39 then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever, for the good of them and their children after them. 40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me. 41 Yes, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will assuredly plant them in this land, with all My heart and with all My soul.’ God says he will make an everlasting covenant with then put fear in their hearts so they will not depart from Him and he will plant them in the land. Now for a futurist we see this day as coming and I have presented just a few of the prophecies that talk about this day. There are many more describing the literal millennium and the distinction that will still exist between Jew and Gentile. Explain your take on this promise of God.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Jer 32 presents a bit of a paradox for you.

Once again, you failed to compare Scripture with Scripture.

The "everlasting covenant" is the covenant of Grace. The fulfillment of Jeremiah chapter 32 is in the new covenant described in Hebrews 8.

Hebrews 8:9-10 KJV
[9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The Jews are saved under the same covenant as the Gentiles.

Romans 2:7-11 KJV
[7] To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
[8] But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[9] Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[10] But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
[11] For there is no respect of persons with God.

The Old Testament is full 'types', 'shadows', or 'pictures' that later unfold or are fulfilled with Christ in the New Testament. The Jews of the OT were 'special' only in the sense that they were entrusted with God's written Law, and in the sense that their lives were used to paint a picture of important spiritual truths as well as prophecies concerning Christ. For when ‘rightly divided’, much of the Bible (OT & NT) speaks of Christ who is front and center of God’s salvation plan and purposes concerning this world and all of mankind.

And one more thing about the "land" that God promised...

We reconcile God's word "by" God's word. Not by Webster's dictionary, or what seems right in our own eyes or by popular consensus like your false doctrine. The fact is, the New Covenant with Israel is the promised land just as the New Jerusalem is the Holy City. Not in a literal physical fashion, but in a representative Spiritual fashion. The redemption of Israel is not something promised that is future, it's something promised that is fulfilled now. God's Covenant or oath to Abraham of this promised land peace and security was fulfilled in Christ.

Luke 1:6873
  • "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
  • And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
  • As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
  • That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
  • To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
  • The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,"
The Oath, the Promise, the Vow, the Covenant, it's all the exact same meaning. Just like a marriage vow, a marriage oath, a marriage promise or a marriage covenant, it's simply a solemn affirmation that something will be done. And as Scripture shows, God has performed all that He sware or promised to do in delivering Israel from bondage among their enemies and translating them into His glorious Kingdom. Even as Luke chapter one illustrates. Israel has already been redeemed and its kingdom established in Christ! Not in a carnal or earthly physical fashion, but Spiritually. ...according to God's Word. The land of the New Covenant is an eternal Spiritual land, not a temporal physical one in the Middle East.

Selah!
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Your own text doesn't agree with you. You quote Jer 31 noting that the new covenant is not according to the one made with the fathers in the day they came out of Egypt. This is correct and the atonement of animals was symbolic until Jesus came and brought in the new covenant. The covenant with Moses was conditional which we will get to in a bit. The covenant with Abraham for the land was unconditional. The overwhelming testimony of scripture shows that God both held the conditional covenant over the the unconditional one but alludes to a day when Israel is walking with a new heart one described exactly like the one in Jer 31. Eze speaks many promises to those who have been brought back to the mountains of Israel which have been long a desolation. 70 year in Babylon is nothing like almost 2000 years after 70 AD. The law noted when Israel was evicted the land would be like a barren desolation. It notes when they come back it would bloom like the Garden of Eden. History shows again this land was desolate all those years the Jews were in exile and indeed it has bloomed like the garden of Eden, The LORD promises those brought back that He would remove the reproach of the nations from them in the day they get the new heart. They are still a reproach and God notes they have profaned His name in all the nations where they were scattered but in that day they will know the lORD. This before and after picture is all over and in every place the land of covenant is still Israel with Jews from the 12 tribes. You dodged my question completely and Jer 31 is connected to Jer 30 the day of Jacobs trouble as chapter 31 begins with the phrase in that day...what day? the day of Jacobs trouble.. then you get the promise of the new covenant which is followed by a declaration that contradicts your premise that is that as long as the sun and moon endure Israel will not cease to be a nation, that is followed by a similar statement that if the heavens can be searched out Israel will cease to be nation for all they have done. the LORD clearly says that Israel will not cease to be a nation and God will not cast them off for what they have done. This is what you teach that God did cast them off. God knew about the cross and 70 AD so this promise has weight being place directly next to the coming of the new covenant. Furthermore chapter 31 ends with Jerusalem needing to be rebuilt at a time when dead bodies are everywhere and from that time on it will be holy and never thrown down again. This is another paradox for you and no problem as future events show the dead bodies being there and indeed it being rebuilt and the Jews being holy from that point on.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Bill-Cosby-Facepalm-Gif.gif



the LORD clearly says that Israel will not cease to be a nation and God will not cast them off for what they have done. This is what you teach that God did cast them off.

What Israel is this? A national Israel or Congregation Israel in Christ made up of both old and new Testament? Think again.

God knew about the cross and 70 AD so this promise has weight being place directly next to the coming of the new covenant.

70AD? Did you get an interpretation from heathen Josephus instead of Word of God?

Furthermore chapter 31 ends with Jerusalem needing to be rebuilt at a time when dead bodies are everywhere and from that time on it will be holy and never thrown down again.

Dead bodies everywhere? Okay...

This is another paradox for you and no problem as future events show the dead bodies being there and indeed it being rebuilt and the Jews being holy from that point on.

As I said, you got wrong Israel and wrong Jews to begin with. Try to quote Scripture next time to back your position up. You need to learn how to compare Jer 31 with the rest of Scripture. You just make a doctrine up with a carnal mind. :)
 
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Redwingfan9

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In Daniel 12:1,Daniel is told, "at that time your people(who's names are written) shall be delivered". Who is Daniels people that shall be delivered? Does Daniels people consist of communist China? Does Daniels people consist of Cubans and Swedes? Or is Daniel's people a group of people in Israel at that time?

Daniel 12:1 KJV: And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Below is Matthew Henry's commentary on Daniel 12:1-4. I think it is safe to say this represents the reformed, post-mil view:

After the prediction of the troubles of the Jews under Antiochus, prefiguring the troubles of the Christian church under the anti-christian power, we have here, I. Comforts, and very precious ones, prescribed as cordials for the support of God's people in those times of trouble; and they are such as may indifferently serve both for those former times of trouble under Antiochus and those latter which were prefigured by them (v. 1-4). II. A conference between Christ and an angel concerning the time of the continuance of these events, designed for Daniel's satisfaction (v. 5-7). III. Daniel's enquiry for his own satisfaction (v. 8). And the answer he received to that enquiry (v. 9-12).

Verses 1-4


It is usual with the prophets, when they foretel the grievances of the church, to furnish it at the same time with proper antidotes, a remedy for every malady. And no relief is so sovereign, of such general application, so easily accommodated to every case, and of such powerful efficacy, as those that are fetched from Christ and the future state; thence the comforts here are fetched.

I. Jesus Christ shall appear his church's patron and protector: At that time, when the persecution is at the hottest, Michael shall stand up, v. 1. The angel had told Daniel what a firm friend Michael was to the church, ch. 10:21. He all along showed this friendship in the upper world; the angels knew it; but now Michael shall stand up in his providence, and work deliverance for the Jews, when he sees that their power is gone, Deu. 32:3. 6. Christ is that great prince, for he is the prince of the kings of the earth, Rev. 1:5. And, if he stand up for his church, who can be against it? But this is not all: At that time (that is, soon after) Michael shall stand up for the working out of our eternal salvation; the Son of God shall be incarnate, shall be manifested to destroy the works of the devil. Christ stood for the children of our people when he was made sin and a curse for them, stood in their stead as a sacrifice, bore the cure for them, to bear it from them. He stands for them in the intercession he ever lives to make within the veil, stands up for them, and stands their friend. And after the destruction of antichrist, of whom Antiochus was a type, Christ shall stand at the latter day upon the earth, shall appear for the complete redemption of all his.

II. When Christ appears he will recompense tribulation to those that trouble his people. There shall be a time of trouble, threatening to all, but ruining to all the implacable enemies of God's kingdom among men, such trouble as never was since there was a nation. This is applicable. 1. To the destruction of Jerusalem, which Christ calls (perhaps with an eye to this prediction) such a great tribulation as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, Mt. 24:21. This the angel had spoken much of (ch. 9:26, 27); and it happened about the same time that Christ set up the gospel-kingdom in the world, that Michael our prince stands up. Or, 2. To the judgment of the great day, that day that shall burn as an oven, and consume the proud and all that do wickedly; that will be such a day of trouble as never was to all those whom Michael our prince stands against.

III. He will work salvation for his people: "At that time thy people shall be delivered, delivered from the mischief and ruin designed them by Antiochus, even all those that were marked for preservation, that were written among the living," Isa. 4:3. When Christ comes into the world he will save his spiritual Israel from sin and hell, and will, at his second coming, complete their salvation, even the salvation of as many as were given him, as many as have their names in the book of life, Rev. 20:15. They were written there before the world, and will be found written there at the end of the world, when the books shall be opened.

IV. There shall be a distinguishing resurrection of those that sleep in the dust, v. 2. 1. When God works deliverance for his people from persecution it is a kind of resurrection; so the Jews' release out of Babylon was represented in vision (Eze. 37) and so the deliverance of the Jews from Antiochus, and other restorations of the church to outward prosperity; they were as life from the dead. Many of those who had long slept in the dust of obscurity and calamity shall then awake, some to that life, and honour, and comfort which will be lasting, everlasting; but to others, who, when they return to their prosperity, will return to their iniquity, it will be a resurrection to shame and contempt, for the prosperity of fools will but expose them and destroy them. 2. When, upon the appearing of Michael our prince, his gospel is preached, many of those who sleep in the dust, both Jews and Gentiles, shall be awakened by it to take upon them a profession of religion, and shall rise out of their heathenism or Judaism; but, since there will be always a mixture of hypocrites with true saints, it is but some of those who are raised to life to whom the gospel is a savour of life unto life, but others will be raised by it to shame and contempt, to whom the gospel of Christ will be a savour of death unto death, and Christ himself set for their fall. The net of the gospel encloses both good and bad. But, 3. It must be meant of the general resurrection at the last day: The multitude of those that sleep in the dust shall awake, that is, all, which shall be a great many. Or, Of those that sleep in the dust many shall arise to life and many to shame. The Jews themselves understand this of the resurrection of the dead at the end of time; and Christ seems to have an eye to it when he speaks of the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation (Jn. 5:29); and upon this the Jews are said by St. Paul to expect a resurrection of the dead both of the just and of the unjust, Acts 24:15. And nothing could come in more seasonably here, for, under Antiochus's persecution, some basely betrayed their religion, others bravely adhered to it. Now it would be a trouble to them that, when the storm was over, they could neither reward the one nor punish the other; this therefore would be a satisfaction to them, that they would both be recompensed according to their works in the resurrection. And the apostle, speaking of the pious Jews that suffered martyrdom under Antiochus, tells us that though they were tortured yet they accepted not deliverance, because they hoped to obtain this better resurrection, Heb. 11:35.

V. There shall be a glorious reward conferred on those who, in the day of trouble and distress, being themselves wise, did instruct many. Such were taken particular notice of in the prophecy of the persecution (ch. 11:33), that they should do eminent service, and yet should fall by the sword and by flame; now, if there were not another life after this, they would be of all men most miserable, and therefore we are here assured that they shall be recompensed in the resurrection of the just (v. 3): Those that are wise (that are teachers, so some read it, for teachers have need of wisdom, and those that have wisdom themselves should communicate it to others) shall shine as the brightness of the firmament, shall shine in glory, heavenly glory, the glory of the upper world; and those that by the wisdom they have, and the instructions they give, are instrumental to turn any, especially to turn many to righteousness, shall shine as the stars for ever and ever. Note, 1. There is a glory reserved for all the saints in the future state, for all that are wise, wise for their souls and eternity. A man's wisdom now makes his face to shine (Eccles. 8:1), but much more will it do so in that state where its power shall be perfected and its services rewarded. 2. The more good any do in this world, especially to the souls of men, the greater will be their glory and reward in the other world. Those that turn men to righteousness, that turn sinners from the errors of their ways and help to save their souls from death (Jam. 5:20), will share in the glory of those they have helped to heaven, which will be a great addition to their own glory. 3. Ministers of Christ, who have obtained mercy of him to be faithful and successful, and so are made burning and shining lights in this world, shall shine very brightly in the other world, shall shine as the stars. Christ is the sun, the fountain, of the lights both of grace and glory; ministers, as stars, shine in both, with a light derived from him, and a diminutive light in comparison of him; yet to those that are earthen vessels it will be a glory infinitely transcending their deserts. They shall shine as the stars of different magnitudes, some in less, others in greater lustre; but, whereas the day is coming when the stars shall fall from heaven as leaves in autumn, these stars shall shine for ever and ever, shall never set, never be eclipsed.

VI. That this prophecy of those times, though sealed up now, would be of great use to those that should live then, v. 4. Daniel must now shut up the words and seal the book because the time would be long ere these things would be accomplished: and it was some comfort that the Jewish nation, though, in the infancy of their return from Babylon, while they were few and weak, they met with obstructions in their work, were not persecuted for their religion till a long time after, when they had grown to some strength and maturity. He must seal the book because it would not be understood, and therefore would not be regarded, till the things contained in it were accomplished; but he must keep it safely, as a treasure of great value, laid up for the ages to come, to whom it would be of great service; for many shall then run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Then this hidden treasure shall be opened, and many shall search into it, and dig for the knowledge of it, as for silver. They shall run to and fro, to enquire out copies of it, shall collate them, and see that they be true and authentic. They shall read it over and over, shall meditate upon it, and run it over in their minds; discurrent—they shall discourse of it, and talk it over among themselves, and compare notes about it, if by any means they may sift out the meaning of it; and thus knowledge shall be increased. By consulting this prophecy on this occasion they shall be led to search other scriptures, which shall contribute much to their advancement in useful knowledge; for then shall we know if we follow on to know the Lord, Hos. 6:3. Those that would have their knowledge increased must take pains, must not sit still in slothfulness and bare wishes but run to and fro, must make use of all the means of knowledge and improve all opportunities of getting their mistakes rectified, their doubts resolved, and their acquaintance with the things of God improved, to know more and to know better what they do know. And let us here see reason to hope that, 1. Those things of God which are now dark and obscure will hereafter be made clear, and easy to be understood. Truth is the daughter of time. Scripture prophecies will be expounded by the accomplishment of them; therefore they are given, and for that explication they are reserved. Therefore they are told us before, that, when they do come to pass, we may believe. 2. Those things of God which are despised and neglected, and thrown by as useless, shall be brought into reputation, shall be found to be of great service, and be brought into request; for divine revelation, however slighted for a time, shall be magnified and made honourable, and, above all, in the judgment of the great day, when the books shall be opened, and that book among the rest.
 
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