What was Jesus saying when He said "you must be born again"

Albion

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Christ said he allowed it to fulfill all righteousness (Matthew 3:15). But nowhere does he, or John, or any of the apostles say water baptism is required for salvation or intiates you into the body of Christ.

Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. (John 3:5)
 
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yellowMan

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It means precisely what it has meant since the beginning of Christianity, Baptism is required for salvation.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Which baptism is this?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
 
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Mountainmanbob

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some men have come to this conclusion, but it is a novel idea which is relatively new and not based in scripture.

Man always wants to improve on things.
Often going in the wrong direction.
M
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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John 3
King James Version

3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Born of Water and Spirit, Water baptism is:
The first commandment given to the people who believe is to repent, and then to be reborn by being buried with him in death(being dead to your body of sin) in water baptism(Acts 2:37-38, 41; Mark 16:16).

_______________________________________________________
1. Water baptism is you showing your true faith and commitment to God by entering the water a Sinner who is dead in his sins(Romans 6:23; Romans 3:23) contained in a body of sin(Romans 7:13-14, 17-18; Romans 6:6,12; Galatians 5:24),
2. Choosing to plant yourself into the water in the likeness of Christ's death(Romans 6:5)
4. Burying yourself in the water of Baptism as Christ was buried in the grave during his own death(Romans 6:4; Colossians 2:12)
5. And in doing so we crucify our old man with him(Romans 6:6;Galatians 2:20;Galatians 5:24)
6. Being made dead to our sins(Romans 6:10-11; Colossians 2:20)
7. Then just as Christ was raised from the dead(Romans 6:4-5)
8. So to are we raised in his likeness in newness of life(Romans 6:4)
9. Being quickened with him(Colossians 2:12,13)
10. Washing away sin from the inward man and purifying us inwardly(Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 3:21)
11. Making us a holy temple(1 Cor 3:16-17) for the spirit to dwell within(1 Cor 6:19; 1 Cor 3:16-17; 2 Cor 6:16)
12. And as we raise up from the water in Christ’s likeness having put on Christ(Galatians 3:27;Romans 6:5) our inward man and our spirit are now clean from sin(Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; 1 Cor 6:11;Galatians 5:24-25).

So the importance of Water Baptism is:
1. The crucifying or our old man
2. Making us dead to our sins
3. Washing away all sin from the inward man purifying us and making us a clean sanctuary for the Holy spirit to dwell within, it is not the cleansing of the outward body but the inward man because the Spirit of God does not dwell on our outward flesh but it dwells with the inward man(Ephesians 3:16; Romans 8:11,16,23,26-27; 1 Cor 6:19).
4. Through this we are raised in Christ's likeness as a new regenerated man alive in the spirit and dead to sin.


Spiritual Baptism(born of Spirit) is:
Baptism of the Spirit is when the Lord fills us with his Holy spirit(1 Cor 12:13; 2 Cor 6:16-17; Romans 8:9, 15-16 ; Ephesians 4:3-4,30; Ephesians 3:16) and this can happen before, during, or after water baptism(Acts 10:44-48; Acts 19:1-6; Acts 2:37-38, 41; Acts 8:10-19). It can also occur from the Laying on of Hands from those who already have the Holy Spirit as shown in(Acts 19:6; 1 Tim 4:14; 2 Tim 1:6; Hebrews 6;2; Acts 8:12-20).


Hope this helps
 
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Guojing

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The Jews in the 4 gospels had no expectations of heaven, and certainly weren't thinking of going to heaven when they die.

They were looking forward to Jesus bringing to kingdom of heaven down to earth, and saving them from Roman rule, whom they hated.

Luke 1 had Zacharias declaring what the Jews were expecting from their promised Messiah.

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

It was said that, before Jesus was born, during the 400 so years of silence after Malachi, the Roman great general Pompey actually entered their temple's holy of holies, curious to see what their image of God was like. That must rank as one of the big insults to Israel.
 
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Saint JOHN

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You are born NATURALY ! to be born AGAIN is to receive GODS birth by the HOLY SPIRIT and you KNOW when this happens ( IN YOUR FACE REAL !! not a wish wash nice feely thing !! religious nonsense !)..

eg.. acts 2 v 38 Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

repent .. baby cant !! baptise (Greek ;dip immerse etc .. your bit .. GODS hand shake , give Holy Spirit.

so others know you are what you say ! ( as warning to his disciples ) ...

mark 16v16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

many religious people (same types as when Jesus was around .. and Nicodemus !) make excuse why not or how (see acts 2v38)

same today ,the first identifier you have aligned yourself with GODS way is you will be given a new language (unknown) to praise God with (undefilable ,pure the spirit will automatically do this )..

Joh 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

john 17v17... they word is truth....
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

dont get mixed up by limited use IN THE CHURCH..people not a building, (many do).

PS note how Nicodemus came by night so as not to be seen by his religious people etc ;
 
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concretecamper

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Yeah I know ... good grief ... one believed one did not ... was the one who believed saved? Was He baptized?
Jesus had yet to rise from the dead and conquer death, therefore the good thief was saved under the Old Covenant, not the New Covanent.
 
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ViaCrucis

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John 3
King James Version

3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Jesus tells us what He means in verse 5, to be born again is that birth of "water and the Spirit", it's Baptism. It's why St. Paul, likewise tells us, in Titus 3:5 that we were saved not by works of righteousness which we had done, but by the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

This is how Christians have always understood what "born again" means, it's what Jesus said, it's what the Apostles taught, and it's what Christians universally believed throughout the centuries.

We were born again by the waters of Baptism by which we were united to Jesus Christ, His death and resurrection, clothed with Christ, buried with Christ, and everything else the Bible says about Baptism.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Christ said he allowed it to fulfill all righteousness (Matthew 3:15). But nowhere does he, or John, or any of the apostles say water baptism is required for salvation or intiates you into the body of Christ.

Colossians 2:11-13
Romans 6:3-4
Galatians 3:27
1 Peter 3:21

The baptism of John was a baptism of repentance, but he was only a forerunner of Christ. He foretold one coming who was greater and whose shoes he wasn't worthy to untie. This coming one would baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire and the miraculous manifestations served to confirm it was Christ that John foretold. But salvation can only be found in the person of Christ.

We're not talking about John's baptism, we're talking about Christian Baptism. Read Acts 19:1-7, here St. Paul encounters a group of John's disciples who had only received John's baptism of repentance, which was in anticipation, pointing to the coming of the Messiah. And so Paul has them baptized with Christian baptism, then places his hands on them to seal with with the Holy Spirit.

The laying on of hands is not "Baptism with the Holy Spirit" by the way, nothing in the Bible says this. Neither is "Baptism with the Holy Spirit" an invisible happenstance that transpires at a personal moment of conversion.

If you want to know what the Bible means when it talks about baptism with the Holy Spirit, then look to where the Bible mentions it. And if we do that we find there are only two instances: The pouring out of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, and the pouring out of the Holy Spirit at the household of Cornelius.

What is significant about these two events that makes them stand out? Well on Pentecost we have the inaugurating moment of the Church, this is what Jesus told His disciples to wait for in Jerusalem, the coming of the Holy Spirit, the promised Paraclete, who would empower and embolden the apostles to go forth as His witnesses throughout the world. But what about what happened at the household of Cornelius? It is here that God shows as a sign the full acceptance of the Gentiles into the Church's sacred mission. Up until this moment it does not seem that the apostles yet understood that Christ's sending them out is not just for the Jews, but for the Gentiles as well. So it is here that God demonstrates powerfully that the Gentiles are included, by doing for Cornelius and his household what had been done for all the disciples in the beginning. St. Peter even says this in Acts 11:17, "If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"

These two events are the only times in the Bible where "baptism with the Holy Spirit" is mentioned. It is not mentioned where the laying on of hands takes place, note that the laying on of hands is absent both at Pentecost and at Cornelius' house; and note that the laying on of hands is never called "baptism with the Holy Spirit".

So if we are being strictly biblical here, then this is what we have to go by.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:12-13

Yes, and it is through the preaching of the Gospel and the Sacrament of Baptism that God accomplishes this, that is why St. Paul in Romans 10:17 says that "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ", and also in Ephesians 5:26 speaks of Christ cleaning the Church "by the washing of water with the word"

This is why in Matthew 28 Jesus commissions His apostles to "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, and instructing them in all which I have taught you." Disciple-making is bringing people into the Church through the preaching of the Gospel and the administering of Baptism, it is through these precious gifts and means of God's own grace that God works to convert us, by giving us the free gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8), uniting us to Jesus Christ, His death, burial, and resurrection (Romans 6:3-4, Galatians 3:27, Colossians 2:12-13). This is the working of God, not of ourselves, so that we cannot boast except in the cross of Jesus Christ.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

Keep reading, Paul is clear, "How can they call on One whom they have not heard? How can they hear unless one is sent?" One cannot call upon the Lord except with faith, and that is why the Gospel is sent out, that through the very word of God faith is given that they now might, with faith, call upon the Lord. It is not our works which save us, it is God's work which saves us, for we are saved by grace, through faith, and this is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works so that no one may boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Therefore do not boast in your works, but boast in the work of God who saves you by sending His only-begotten Son, who suffered, died, was buried, and rose again--for you. And this God gives you through His precious means of Grace, Word and Sacrament. So that you can trust the word which you have heard since the beginning, and believe in your baptism by which you were born again and received newness of life from God in Jesus Christ, and the Spirit Himself dwells in you, the guarantee of these things, by which you can cry out, "Abba! Father!" For you are the child of God, not by what you have done, but by what God has done for you, by His grace alone--and this is yours through faith.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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There's more than one kind of baptism.

There is only one baptism. Christian baptism.

Anything else described as "baptism" is such by analogy, that is why it is modified as such. For example "baptism with the Holy Spirit and with fire" is not baptism, it is baptism by analogy. Likewise Jesus asks if His disciples will be baptized with the same baptism as He Himself must undergo, by which He refers to His Passion--it is a baptism by analogy. And so on and so forth.

But Baptism, as just Baptism, is just that: It's Baptism. It's what the Bible means, it's what the Bible says, and it's what Christians have always believed.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Phil W

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There's more than one kind of baptism.
I agree.
But Rom 6's baptism is with water.
Verse 5 is the best indicator of this..."For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"
What other baptism can be likened to "planting" besides the one where we are "immersed" into Christ's death and burial?
 
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Ilikecats

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Jesus had yet to rise from the dead and conquer death, therefore the good thief was saved under the Old Covenant, not the New Covanent.
That’s completely false. The thief was saved by faith. Under the Law he would be punished for there is no forgiveness of willful sins. What occurs when someone broke the Law given to Moses willingly was the death penalty. The covenant of grace, if you’ve read into covenant theology, started right after the fall of Adam. Baptism saves no one. It’s faith alone that saves.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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One church I went to there was saints baptizing others in bathtubs, since they found no scripture opposing it. Imo there are 3 baptisms. Noahic, breathed on for living, fire upon for service. The first is described in Peter, but is more analogous, the second where Jesus breathed on the disciples to give understanding of the work being carried out within and the third for the mantle of carrying out His work. *_*
 
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Guojing

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That’s completely false. The thief was saved by faith. Under the Law he would be punished for there is no forgiveness of willful sins. What occurs when someone broke the Law given to Moses willingly was the death penalty. The covenant of grace, if you’ve read into covenant theology, started right after the fall of Adam. Baptism saves no one. It’s faith alone that saves.

Ahh its rare to have someone admit openly that they are into Covenant Theology.
 
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concretecamper

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That’s completely false
No it is not.
The thief was saved by faith. Under the Law he would be punished for there is no forgiveness of willful sins. What occurs when someone broke the Law given to Moses willingly was the death penalty. The covenant of grace, if you’ve read into covenant theology, started right after the fall of Adam.
The thief repented and believed in the Messiah.
Baptism saves no one.
According to the scripture the OP posted, it does.

Baptism saves, unlike
It’s faith alone that saves.
which is found nowhere in scripture
 
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