What was Jesus saying when He said "you must be born again"

Albion

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And this baptism is not with water, but with the Holy Ghost, which Christ baptizes with -

Why, do you suppose, Christ would have allowed himself to be baptized in the River Jordan if he placed absolutely no importance upon that act?

And how, do you think, we are to understand the miraculous manifestations also of the Father and the Holy Spirit on that occasion if they were opposed to water baptism for people who were to become followers of Jesus?
 
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rhern

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And this baptism is not with water, but with the Holy Ghost, which Christ baptizes with -

And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God. John 1:33-34

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:38-39

Jesus had not sent the comforter yet which is the Holy spirit,

so how was Nicodemus to understand being born again as a spiritual thing rather that a physical thing.

John 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

((Jesus did not say no, you are wrong in your understanding. So this means Nicodemus was on the right track.

Jesus reaffirms by saying: 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

When women are are about to gives birth they say my water has broke.

this is a physical happening. Only God's Spirit can bring a person who has died back to life.
 
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rhern

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yep, been through it 5 times. A women's water breaking has NOTHING to do with Baptism or Jesus' words.


Show me 1 time 1 scripture That Jesus had already sent the comforter when He was speaking to Nicodemus.
 
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anna ~ grace

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John 3
King James Version

3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

This is a truly, truly interesting question. Having come to Christ in a community of Christians who believed that being born again refered to an emotional conversion experience, and thinking for years that that's all it could mean, I finally researched this.

It was, I think, John Wesley who actually developed the above definition. Prior to this, being born again among Catholics, the Orthodox, Lutherans, and Anglicans meant, simply, water baptism, and the grace that baptism confers. It is after Wesley, and others, that being born again began to mean a conversion experience or emotional repentance experience.

I am not sure about Reformed / Calvinistic Christians, if they use the term "born again" this way. @JM?
 
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Rachel20

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Why, do you suppose, Christ would have allowed himself to be baptized in the River Jordan if he placed absolutely no importance upon that act?

Christ said he allowed it to fulfill all righteousness (Matthew 3:15). But nowhere does he, or John, or any of the apostles say water baptism is required for salvation or intiates you into the body of Christ.

And how, do you think, we are to understand the miraculous manifestations also of the Father and the Holy Spirit on that occasion if they were opposed to water baptism for people who were to become followers of Jesus?

The baptism of John was a baptism of repentance, but he was only a forerunner of Christ. He foretold one coming who was greater and whose shoes he wasn't worthy to untie. This coming one would baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire and the miraculous manifestations served to confirm it was Christ that John foretold. But salvation can only be found in the person of Christ.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:12-13

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10
 
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danielmears

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John 3
King James Version

3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 3
King James Version

3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Here is a blog entry I wrote about this very question, I hope it helps..
Skip to content

The Realm by Daniel Mears

Born of the Spirit
starry-night-1149815_1920.jpg

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell when it cometh, and whither it goeth; so is every one that is born of the Spirit. John 3:5-8

Here, Jesus was having a conversation with Nicodemus, described in the book of John as a, “man of the Pharisees,” a “ruler of the Jews”. In this conversation a little later, Jesus chastised Nicodemus because he had no knowledge of these things. Jesus said, “Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?” This was astounding to Jesus since Nicodemus was supposed to be teaching the Jews about, spiritual things, the very knowledge of God!

So, what does it mean to be, “born of water and of the Spirit” so that we may enter into the, “kingdom of God.” I believe the water he is speaking of here is, the water referred to later on in the chapter of John when he is talking to the woman by the well. Here Jesus is having a conversation with a Samaritan woman, people the Jews did not speak to when he told her this:

If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. John 4:10

He then went on to say later, “Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again; But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.” John 4:13-14

This, “living water”, later in scripture is said to be, “the Spirit”, the Holy Ghost, which is the essence of God which is also given as a, “gift” to us. To receive this gift we must look to spiritual things and allow ourselves to be filled, believing by faith. This is where we have to realize the difference between information and revelation. A person can read scripture and hear the, “word” of God without actually discerning what they are actually reading or hearing. We are made in the image of God and can receive this information spiritually. We are made with the internal modem, an analogy which may be useful in this age, to receive this information of the Spirit. Like a computer which can receive, we too can receive.

The apostle Paul talks too about these things to the people of Corinth, who really are no different than we are, trying to understand the things of God!

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard , neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit, for the Spirit searcheth all things, ye, the deep things of God. 1Cor.3:9-10

The rest of the scripture explains that these, “deep things of God”, are only spiritually discerned. The, “Spirit of God” revealing the deep things of God!

Which things also we speak not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So, we too must look away from, “the natural”, things of the world to understand the, spiritual things, yes, and receive the Spirit to learn of the, “deep things of God”! Until the next time, may you all be blessed!
 
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Rachel20

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4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

((Jesus did not say no, you are wrong in your understanding. So this means Nicodemus was on the right track.

Actually, Jesus did say "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"

In John 3:5 Jesus speaks of being "born of water and of the Spirit" and in the next verse (John 3:6) he repeats the two births, but this time calls them "flesh and Spirit", thereby equating the birth of water with the birth of the flesh - the physical birth. Jesus was disputing the Jewish belief that to be physically born a Jew was enough to enter the kingdom of God.
 
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Scott Husted

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Jesus had not sent the comforter yet which is the Holy spirit,

so how was Nicodemus to understand being born again as a spiritual thing rather that a physical thing.

John 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

((Jesus did not say no, you are wrong in your understanding. So this means Nicodemus was on the right track.

Jesus reaffirms by saying: 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

When women are are about to gives birth they say my water has broke.

this is a physical happening. Only God's Spirit can bring a person who has died back to life.

From the Law, or OT just as Jesus had ... but I dont believe he expected him to know just like he did not expect to see figs on a tree when the time of figs had not come yet, or the rich young ruler to give up all he had and them come follow him.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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If a person does not have God’s Holy Spirit within them, they are “ None Of His”. It is what separates the Saved from the damned.It is the Spirit That God that gives to a person that creates in you a New Heart....The Spirit That gives you “ ears to hear and eyes to see”....it is the Spirit That reveals to a person that they are Lost Sinners who MUST have a Savior or they are Utterly Lost....it is the Spirit That changes you from within and makes you more like Jesus — That “ Inside Of the cup” transformation that God is looking for....
Those that possess this God-Given Gift are Members of the Body Of Christ and they are the ONLY ones who make up that Body....if you are not a Member Of The Body Of Christ when you die— you are Lost forever .
How does one get that Saving Spirit ? How does one become “ Born Again” ? Simply Believe the Gospel contained in 1Cor15:1-4.....Believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the dead......simple as that. God Bless...
 
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rhern

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pointless request. If you can explain the significance, we can continue this discussion.

Jesus Had to assent to the Father before He could sent the comforter.

So How will Nicodemus be able to see the Kingdom.

How will He be able to enter the Kingdom.

Do you suppose He will be born again along with Peter and the Apostles.

Matthew 28: KJV
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Ezekiel 37:

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put My Spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

God brings them back to Life and they will see the Kingdom and they will enter the Kingdom.

John 3:
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Jesus had not sent the comforter yet which is the Holy spirit,

so how was Nicodemus to understand being born again as a spiritual thing rather that a physical thing.

John 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

((Jesus did not say no, you are wrong in your understanding. So this means Nicodemus was on the right track.

Jesus reaffirms by saying: 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

When women are are about to gives birth they say my water has broke.

this is a physical happening. Only God's Spirit can bring a person who has died back to life.

There are 2 births and 2 deaths. A physical birth and a physical death...a spiritual birth and a spiritual death (this is the 2nd death)
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell when it cometh, and whither it goeth; so is every one that is born of the Spirit. John 3:5-8

Here, Jesus was having a conversation with Nicodemus, described in the book of John as a, “man of the Pharisees,” a “ruler of the Jews”. In this conversation a little later, Jesus chastised Nicodemus because he had no knowledge of these things. Jesus said, “Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?” This was astounding to Jesus since Nicodemus was supposed to be teaching the Jews about, spiritual things, the very knowledge of God!

Flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom (1 Corinthians 15:50-53). Nakdimon was a Pharisee.
 
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concretecamper

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Jesus Had to assent to the Father before He could sent the comforter.
If you say so. But what does this have to do with Baptism.
So How will Nicodemus be able to see the Kingdom
Still doesnt address Baptism.
How will He be able to enter the Kingdom.
Jesus said through WATER AND THE HOLLY SPIRIT. This does address Baptism.
Do you suppose He will be born again along with Peter and the Apostles.
What does scripture say?
Matthew 28: KJV
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Ezekiel 37:

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put My Spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

God brings them back to Life and they will see the Kingdom and they will enter the Kingdom.
none of this addresses the topic of the necessity of Baptism.
John 3:
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Bingo
 
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BrotherDave

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John 3
King James Version

3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Just like we did not choose to be born into this world, we cannot choose to be born into the kingdom of God.
We are saved entirely by the sovereign mercy and grace of God (Eph 2:8). When He saves us, giving us a new soul, we become a new creature (2 Cor 5:17) a new self (Eph 4:24). We are born again (I Peter 1:23). This happens in an instant, just like when the bodies of all those God saved will be changed in the twinkling of an eye (1 Corinth 15:51-52) at the end. Once reborn our body is still dead in sin but our soul is now alive (Ro 8:10). Now, we have a conflict between our inner saved soul that only wants the things of God and our physical sin cursed body that still lusts after sinful worldly things (1 Peter2: 11) . Paul describes this struggle after he was born again on the road to Damascus.

Also, God does not take our existing cursed soul and clean it up or patch it up by making us responsible for our salvation. In Luke 5:36-39 Jesus compares this to mixing new and old garments or how new wine must be put in new bottles. What he is saying in verse 39 is that a completely new soul is needed because man will always prefer the old sinful one.

Being re-born means we have received a brand-new resurrected soul (John 3:3). It is a tremendous miracle that takes place in our life, and only God can do it if it is His good pleasure for us (John 15:16). He does this through the hearing of his Word (Rom 10:17, Eph: 1:13), which is the water that cleanses us (Eph 5:26). It is through the gospel that we understand sin and it through Christ (who is the Word) that sin is removed or washed from us.

This is why the bible is so important to read or hear. It is the environment in which God works. This is why we are to spread the gospel (Mark 16:15) message. This is also why the end will not come until the message has spread throughout the world (Matthew 24:14).
 
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Flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom (1 Corinthians 15:50-53). Nakdimon was a Pharisee.
Correct, carnal thinking will not get you to the oneness with God/Christ prayed for in John17:21 We must open our spiritual eyes to see that if in fact we are a branch and Christ the vine, one with God who is the life which flows through all; then we must realize a branch is not separate from the vine but is part of the vine. Realizing then we are one with Christ, in God and God in us it entirely changes our thinking, for with God all things are possible, thus a new creation is born again of the Spirit!
 
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