Ammillennial Return of Christ: by Dr. Sam Storms

BABerean2 said:

The promised land is found below.
It is not on this rotten, sin-cursed earth.



Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.


Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.


Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.



Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


I am looking for the same thing Peter was looking for in 2 Peter 3:13.

It is the location of the kingdom of Christ, at His Second Coming.

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Since I have the ability to logically deduce what all that would add up to then, though some might find that debatable that I have that ability at all, which is basically meaning an ability to debunk something, here's what that would add up to, then.

This seems to indicate you have them being called before Him on the new earth after the great white throne judgment, the fact Amils insist the new heavens and new earth are after the great white throne judgment.

What about this part, then?

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Bring them before Him where? Obviously the same place where the other servants are brought before Him.

If Amil is the correct position, it makes nonsense out of Scriptures like this. Something like this can work with Premil though, since Luke 19:27 would be meaning before the great white throne judgment, not after it like your position would be having it, and that per Premil the entire planet would not literally be ablaze at the time either.

DavidPT said:

Since I have the ability to logically deduce what all that would add up to then, though some might find that debatable that I have that ability at all, which is basically meaning an ability to debunk something, here's what that would add up to, then.

This seems to indicate you have them being called before Him on the new earth after the great white throne judgment, the fact Amils insist the new heavens and new earth are after the great white throne judgment.

What about this part, then?

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Bring them before Him where? Obviously the same place where the other servants are brought before Him.

If Amil is the correct position, it makes nonsense out of Scriptures like this. Something like this can work with Premil though, since Luke 19:27 would be meaning before the great white throne judgment, not after it like your position would be having it, and that per Premil the entire planet would not literally be ablaze at the time either.

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Your logic is illogical. I think you probably know that.

Where do you think the judgment will take place? Please give Scripture?

keras said:

This simply does not relate to any of the Bible prophesies.
Jesus will Return as the conquering King, over a world that will have had all the ungodly people killed. Either from the Great Tribulation punishments, or at the Battle of Armageddon. His enemies will have been made His footstool. Hebrews 10:13
Only when nearly 1000 years have passed, will Satan again deceive many and they will be instantly cremated. Revelation 20:9

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Who are these billions of deceived persons? Are they the elect?

BABerean2 said:

The promised land is found below.
It is not on this rotten, sin-cursed earth.

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So you agree with me that everlasting righteousness does not characterize the world we live in? And therefore, there must be a gap in the 490 year prophecy?

BABerean2 said:

Not unless you have cut Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, out of every Bible ever in the world. Those scriptures prove the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people for a period of about 7 years, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.

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But the Daniel 9 490 year prophecy does not mention the gospel taken to the gentiles.

Do you agree that everlasting righteousness does not characterize the world we live in?

sovereigngrace said:

Who are these billions of deceived persons? Are they the elect?

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Yes, as is quite evident among believers here and in the Churchs.
Many will try to gain this knowledge. Daniel 12:4 But only a few will understand. Daniel 12:10

Here is a Bible passage that seems to fit how eschatology forums operate in our modern age:

Ezekiel 33:30-33 People gather in groups and talk among themselves, saying: Let us see if there is any message from the Lord.
So people will read what is Written, but they will not act on it. Fine words, they will say, with insincerity, for their hearts are set on going their own way and they believe false teachers who promote prosperity and removal from any Tribulation.
To them, anyone who tells the truth of the Prophetic Word, is no more than a singer of fine songs, or a gifted musician. They will read the truth as presented, but none will take heed of it.

When disaster comes, as it come will, only then will they remember that they were warned, but failed to take notice of what God's prophets had told them.
REB. Condensed and paraphrased.

sovereigngrace said:

Your logic is illogical. I think you probably know that.

Where do you think the judgment will take place? Please give Scripture?

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Which judgment are you meaning? I'm referring to Luke 19 when Christ has returned after receiving a kingdom. Where is He returning to, then after arriving, having His servants brought in front of Him, where He rewards some, has the others, His enemies that didn't let Him reign over them, slain? Where and when is He doing that? Is He doing that on an earth that is engulfed in flames at the time? Is He doing that in heaven though the text clearly indicates He has returned from there when He does this? Is He doing this before the time of the great white throne judgment, during the time of the great white throne judgment, or after that time? Per Amil, which comes first, the great white throne judgment or the new heavens and new earth?

BAB2 seem to indicate that they are being brought before Him on the new earth. Thus why I asked, per Amil, which comes first, the great white throne judgment or the new heavens and new earth?

The point I was trying to make over all, the parable in Luke tends to prove that this planet can't literally be engulfed in flames when Christ returns since it makes nonsense out of a parable like that if true.


Luke 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

This can't be the great white throne judgment because God is raising people back to life for that judgment, while in Luke 19:27 no one is being brought to life, but are being put to death.

DavidPT said:

Which judgment are you meaning? I'm referring to Luke 19 when Christ has returned after receiving a kingdom. Where is He returning to, then after arriving, having His servants brought in front of Him, where He rewards some, has the others, His enemies that didn't let Him reign over them, slain? Where and when is He doing that? Is He doing that on an earth that is engulfed in flames at the time? Is He doing that in heaven though the text clearly indicates He has returned from there when He does this? Is He doing this before the time of the great white throne judgment, during the time of the great white throne judgment, or after that time? Per Amil, which comes first, the great white throne judgment or the new heavens and new earth?

BAB2 seem to indicate that they are being brought before Him on the new earth. Thus why I asked, per Amil, which comes first, the great white throne judgment or the new heavens and new earth?

The point I was trying to make over all, the parable in Luke tends to prove that this planet can't literally be engulfed in flames when Christ returns since it makes nonsense out of a parable like that if true.


Luke 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

This can't be the great white throne judgment because God is raising people back to life for that judgment, while in Luke 19:27 no one is being brought to life, but are being put to death.

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A parable is simply an earthly story representing spiritual truth. This is one of a thousand reason (not literal) why so many are abandoning Premil: "Premil spiritualizes the literal passages and literalizes the spiritual passages. Their hyper-literalistic approach to highly-figurative Revelation is a case-in-point."

keras said:

Yes, as is quite evident among believers here and in the Churchs.
Many will try to gain this knowledge. Daniel 12:4 But only a few will understand. Daniel 12:10

Here is a Bible passage that seems to fit how eschatology forums operate in our modern age:

Ezekiel 33:30-33 People gather in groups and talk among themselves, saying: Let us see if there is any message from the Lord.
So people will read what is Written, but they will not act on it. Fine words, they will say, with insincerity, for their hearts are set on going their own way and they believe false teachers who promote prosperity and removal from any Tribulation.
To them, anyone who tells the truth of the Prophetic Word, is no more than a singer of fine songs, or a gifted musician. They will read the truth as presented, but none will take heed of it.

When disaster comes, as it come will, only then will they remember that they were warned, but failed to take notice of what God's prophets had told them.
REB. Condensed and paraphrased.

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What are you talking about? Where does Daniel 12 and Ezekiel 33 Make any mention of a future millennium after the second coming?

sovereigngrace said:

What are you talking about? Where does Daniel 12 and Ezekiel 33 Make any mention of a future millennium after the second coming?

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No,
Because my post #350 is about you and all who fail to see and heed the Prophetic Word as it is Written.
The Millennium is a certainty, it is plainly prophesied in Revelation 20, plus in many other scriptures as the Seventh 'Day' of Gods plan for mankind.

BABerean2 said:

You are interpreting the whole Bible through your understanding of Revelation chapter 20, instead of doing the opposite. This is a common error found on this forum..

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How very true.