Citizen of the Kingdom

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The truth is in the representation of law vs grace and seen in the type of relationship represented.
One is parent/child marriage or the other, an adult/adult marriage.
Unripe or ripe fruit as some would say.
Law represents the governor placed on a child until one becomes of age.
When they become of age the things of a child are no more.

First that of a parent / child. That is where one is not mature enough, either a young believer or unbeliever who does not understand the relationship of Christ and the church. The need is for them to understand God in the picture of marriage that Paul saw around him, much in the same way that Jesus taught from farming examples.

The absurdity of adult/ child used as a symbol of marriage that does not respect christianity is seen in 1 Peter where the believer is dominated by an unbeliever. It represents God’s answer to lovelessness in a marriage that results in unanswered prayer. God’s silence.

An adult/adult marriage, mutuality, is grace fulfilled and represents Christ meeting face to face at the throne of grace. That is true Christianity in the movement of law to grace. Or the lack thereof.

So it’s easy to see if one has a mature marriage or not or if one is acting from law rather than from grace.

A further elaboration on the leading into a mutuality with God in serving each other, is that the leading must come from God:

Hebrews 7:28
the law appointed frail mortals to be high priests, but the oracle pronounc'd with an oath, which was since the law, established the Son, who is crown'd with immortal perfections.

Hebrews 12:25
See that you refuse not Him that speaks. For if those did not escape who had refused Him who uttered the oracles on earth, much more we who turn away from Him who does so from heaven:

1 Peter 4:11
If anyone speak, let them speak as the oracles of God; if anyone minister, let them do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

God bless
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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From another thread this may be a good starting point for discussion:

Biblical justice is based on the fundamental equality of all human beings. Regardless of external differences, every single human being is made in the image of God and of inestimable value. Biblical justice therefore is profoundly equal. Leviticus 19:15 declares: ‘You shall do no injustice in judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor nor defer to the great, but you are to judge your neighbour fairly.’

Every person, from the playground onwards, looks for fairness in life. The Bible gives them that fairness. For the good of society justice has to be even-handed, giving preference to none. Only when all are equal before the law can a society know harmony and cohesion; preferential justice increases suspicion and animosity between groups.

Thoughts?
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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We have equality for every human being written into the Canadian institution and have had for 50+ years, but apparently in the United States the status of women is still that of second class citizen? Adult men and child women! Why is that?
 
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JackRT

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We have equality for every human being written into the Canadian institution and have had for 50+ years, but apparently in the United States the status of women is still that of second class citizen? Adult men and child women! Why is that?

Patriarchy is still strong in Canada too. In my estimation patriarchy is perhaps the most pernicious evil that humankind has ever imposed on itself.
 
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Gregorikos

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We have equality for every human being written into the Canadian institution and have had for 50+ years, but apparently in the United States the status of women is still that of second class citizen? Adult men and child women! Why is that?

Part of it was the way the Equal Rights Amendment was written. There was a legit fear it would open the door for gay marriage. That and the very high bar necessary for amending the US Constitution doomed it to failure. Even so, it passed in 35 states, falling just 3 short.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Patriarchy is still strong in Canada too. In my estimation patriarchy is perhaps the most pernicious evil that humankind has ever imposed on itself.
Not as bad, obviously, since it’s not written into law, and therefore unlawful to treat people unfairly. The backlash from that is the problems seen with immigration that we are having now, and people feeling it gives unfair advantages to those who were not born on Canadian soil.
Part of it was the way the Equal Rights Amendment was written. There was a legit fear it would open the door for gay marriage. That and the very high bar necessary for amending the US Constitution doomed it to failure. Even so, it passed in 35 states, falling just 3 short.
The equal rights amendment was written with an eye on the gvmnt of native Americans that did have equal status, but failed to include women in the process, which was shocking for the elders present that represented the tribes. All the ERA ended up doing was a setback from what was previously there.
Open the door for others! That is probably the worse excuse ever. I hear it’s just one state needed to sign to bring it about but the patriarchy is so bad in parliament that it refuses and so perpetuates the lies of inequality on a God-given issue. There’s nothing ‘legit' about it.
 
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Gregorikos

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I hear it’s just one state needed to sign to bring it about but the patriarchy is so bad in parliament that it refuses and so perpetuates the lies of inequality on a God-given issue. There’s nothing ‘legit' about it.

I shouldn't have said "legit", but rather it was perceived that way. I certainly believed it at the time. But they got their gay marriage anyway, so that one reason that prevented people from voting for it is no longer an issue. My personal opinion is that if not for people's perception on that issue at the time, it would have passed.

But I don't believe the ERA can be simply revived by getting one more state to vote for it. It expired. I'm pretty sure we would have to start all over. (And we should.)
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Marriage wasn’t even in the books as a Christian sacrament until 1215 at the 4th Lateran Council, getting back to Christian ideals and what the bible says. In that all that marriage entailed was a mutual consent from each. However it decreed that any business involving marriage were the business of the church. Also when the clause was added that priests should never marry.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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1215 was also when the Magna Carter was signed. On the secular side ...
“No free person shall be seized or imprisoned or stripped of their rights …etc .. except by the lawful judgement of equals
I can’t even imagine what that says to women in the states. It would seem to leave them open to the grievances experienced then.

Clause 3-6 of the original dealt with minor (child) heirs. The king at that time was selling rights of wardship over young, orphaned heirs and heiresses to the highest bidders, who then were ‘masters’ over their property. The king had the right to give those heirs in marriage, also to the highest bidder.

Clause 7-8 dealt with widows, which the king was also arranging marriages for, so that when they came of age to receive their inheritances that would then go to another.

Harsh things to look at ...
 
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Gregorikos

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The truth is in the representation of law vs grace and seen in the type of relationship represented.
One is parent/child marriage or the other, an adult/adult marriage.
Unripe or ripe fruit as some would say.
Law represents the governor placed on a child until one becomes of age.
When they become of age the things of a child are no more.

First that of a parent / child. That is where one is not mature enough, either a young believer or unbeliever who does not understand the relationship of Christ and the church.

Back to the parent/child vs adult/adult type of marriages, I think complementarianism or patriarchy brings about a parent/child type of marriage. When the husband sets all the rules and makes all the decisions for himself and his wife, it is essentially a parent/child relationship. That is not the Ezer Kenedgo God intended for Adam in Genesis 2:20!
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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`ezer means "strength" or “power" "I will make a power [or strength] corresponding to man.” "For this reason, a woman must have power [or authority] on her head [that is to say, invested in her].”

God named the light DAY and He named the darkness NIGHT. God also named mankind ADAM to include male and female. He named EARTH and SEAS as well as the rivers flowing out of Eden.

Adam male, named the animals and Adam male, after the fall, named Eve to separate Adam female, from Adam male. That’s more or less the history of the naming of creation.

So what the fall accomplished basically was what the wise Solomon suggested with the baby that two women claimed to be the parent of. ADAM, male and female, were split in two.

Separated Adam = male and female entities. Now the new Adam, Christ, seeks to return the split apart humans to become one with Him. His representation as the male requires the joining of the female counterpart, which is the church, to Him.

Because that’s not accomplished in the law, minor children are the representatives, but by grace, freedom from the law as the matured teaching, to be anything but fully in either is a mixture of law/grace that straddles both covenants. That’s precisely what the book of Hebrews lists as the dangers of falling back to a covenant not associated with the new high priest for the saving of souls.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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“ ’living nephesh’ given to each living creature that the first Adam named speaks of the power-over given to the earth creature (man) “

These being subordinate brings to mind that which we need to bring into submission ~ the body (plant life) and the mind/soul (animal life) under control of the spirit of mankind (Holy Spirit led)

Because, it continues … “ Helpers they may be … companions they are not”

“Then Yahweh God seemingly steps back out of the picture; showing that diety as not the authoritarian controller of events”

The Father seems to have forfeited the right to reverse the Second Adam’s human/divine decision. The King’s verdict is irreversible. “This earth creature (Christ Jesus) takes over” as the Lord of Lords and King of Kings, to which every knee shall bow. And He embraces the power to till and keep us His Garden, the church out of His side, both of blood and water, making us clean. Amen (so be it) is His spoken Word.

God is now set on His promise of finding fit companions for His Son amongst all of mankind. The new Adam reviews the candidates, judging them all as to what He will call them.
 
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JackRT

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Most of us would claim to be very familiar with the Biblical story of the creation, temptation and fall found in Genesis 2. Some fundamental Christians might rejoice in it as a proof text for the inferiority of women and their continued suppression both in the church and in society at large. More liberal Christians might condemn it as an irredeemably patriarchal and mythological account. However when carefully examined without dogmatic preconceptions and with the help of competent scholarship, the story loses much of it's imagined patriarchy and opens into fresh insights.

To begin with, Genesis 2 is completely unlike the other Biblical creation accounts such as in Genesis 1, Proverbs 8, Psalm 104 or Job 38. It is a "stand alone" account. It begins with God creating ha'adam from ha'adama. This Hebrew pun literally means "the earth creature from the earth". It is usually quite difficult to preserve a pun in translation from one language to another but in English we might say, "the human from the humus". Note that ha'adam is not yet at this point a proper name but merely indicates what it is. In Hebrew it is a nephesh or "living creature". Note also "it" is not yet a creature with a sexual identification of any kind. We should further note that God's creative action here might be thought of as a form of evolution from a lower state to a higher.

God continues the creative process by producing a "garden" of all vegetation and places the ha'adam there to tend and till it. The care of the garden is entrusted to the care of the earth creature whom we might even think of as the patron saint of the environmental movement. The ha'adam is informed that it may eat of the fruit of any plant except the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil". This suggests two things. Firstly, the ha'adam is a totally naïve and innocent creature. Without the knowledge of good and evil it lacks even the capability of sin. This would seem to me a crucial defect in the storyteller's development of this mythology.


Now we are informed that our androgynous ha'adam is lonely. Would not an omniscient God have foreseen this from the beginning? To remedy this lack of foresight God creates the animals and brings them to the ha'adam who names them, thus attaining symbolic power over them. However the ha'adam does not find another creature that would be suitable to overcome it's loneliness. Did God really think that an aardvark or a platypus would be a suitable companion? Once again it seems odd that God could not have foreseen this as well. God now intervenes to cast the ha'adam into a deep sleep so as to perform the world's first "sex change operation". The rib taken from the ha'adam is formed into a woman and what remains of the ha'adam is now male. Both sexes came into being simultaneously! The woman is now described as a suitable "helpmate" to the man who is still referred to as ha'adam even though he is now a sexual creature. The Hebrew word that translates as "helpmate" seems to us in our language to infer a degree of inferiority. This is primarily a translation problem since the same word is used in many instances to refer to God as the helpmate of Israel. This hardly could suggest inferiority! It could in fact be suggestive that the female is superior to the male at this point.


Essay remains unfinished.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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The accompanying Knegdo to ezer, which is ascribed to God as the superior who created, named and saved Israel, tempers the connection to superiority to specify 'identification with' to relieve isolation, that of being alone to being in association with Him who never leaves nor forsakes.
 
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Back to the parent/child vs adult/adult type of marriages, I think complementarianism or patriarchy brings about a parent/child type of marriage. When the husband sets all the rules and makes all the decisions for himself and his wife, it is essentially a parent/child relationship. That is not the Ezer Kenedgo God intended for Adam in Genesis 2:20!
From all the research spanning my lifetime of walking with God, and 40 yrs of deep bible study, the first 10 being with bible and concordance only, the only references are
adult/child = God and mankind/ mature being/helpless being
adult/adult = believers
 
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Essay begins ... so after all of these things, the new church that Jesus built has corrected the problem first was brought up, about widows that were being unfairly fed. But the orphans still remain. Perhaps someone will adopt them :hearteyecat:
 
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