I am sure you have read the entire Revelation 13 chapter, likely numerous times by now. That means you should have noticed that first a beast has to rise out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And that one of it's heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Followed by another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Has any of the above already happened? If it has, when exactly did it happen?
Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
None of what I have submitted from Revelation 14 can precede what is recorded in Revelation 13. Chronologically, Revelation 14:9 fits during the 42 month reign of the beast. That is when the martyrs we see in Revelation 20:4, for refusing to worship the beast, and it's image, are martyred. They are meaning the ones in Revelation 14:13. They are the ones heeding the warnings in verses 9-11 in Revelation 14. And as to these martyrs in Revelation 20:4, the fact they are martyred for refusing to worship it's image, there is no image to worship or refuse to worship until Revelation 13:14 is fulfilled first. In order to even fulfill that verse, Revelation 13:1 and verse 3, plus Revelation 13:11, have to be fulfilled before Revelation 13:14 can even be.
Chronology matters, chronology counts. Chronology helps us to arrive at the proper timing of these events. By ignoring chronology we end up with all these false theories, such as the thousand years fit before the 2nd coming. When comparing that to the chronology of events, clearly the thousand years fit after the 2nd coming instead. It's like those who think the trumpets and vials of wrath run in parallel. This is not possible though, when considering chronology. Only when ignoring chronology is it then possible. The first vial is poured out on those who have been worshiping the beast during it's 42 month reign. The first trumpet sounds before there even is a 42 month reign of the beast taking place. Therefore, the trumpets and vials can't be running in parallel unless when the first trumpet sounds, they are already worshiping the beast during it's 42 month reign, except apparently they are not.
David, you seem to believe that chronology is the key to understanding the timing of things that happen in the Revelation. So how about if we start in the beginning of the book to see if we can find any clues about when these events might be taking place, so we can determine if the Revelation should indeed be read as though written in chronological order of chapters? Hopefully this will be of interest to you?
The first chronology then would be the seven letters themselves. John was to send all that is contained in the Revelation to seven physical churches, existing in the first century. I don't know if you have ever studied numbers in Scripture, especially number references in the book of Revelation. Because I believe the number seven symbolizes all professing Christian churches on earth throughout the whole New Covenant Gospel Age. The instructions to write down all that is seen, is proof that the letters, as well as the whole of the Revelation of Christ was meant to be circulated to every New Covenant Christian church throughout the ages. Seven then symbolizing the perfect number, or whole number of all congregations, professing to be of Christ throughout the world.
As we read the letters, to try to minimize the length of each reply, I think if we look at only at the warnings, and perhaps some blessings it will help. As we read we need to keep in mind that all these things written to the churches apply to every church in Christ, and not only to those seven physical churches of the first century.
The first letter warns of some among
them who are evil, professing to be apostles, but who are liars. Then there is a warning of them leaving their first love. They are warned to repent of this, or the
candlestick (church according to chap 1) would be removed. There is also a general warning against the
doctrine of the Nicolatians, which God hates.
Here in the first letter we find warnings of evil within the churches, false apostles, liars, warning the church would be removed and false doctrine. Do we find any of this pertaining to what read throughout the Revelation? Anything here that might help us to place specific events into definite chronological order?
In the second letter God seems pleased with their works, tribulation, and poverty, and says they are rich.
But they are warned against the
blasphemy of those who say they are Jews, but are in fact of the
synagogue of Satan. They are told not to fear the things they would suffer, for
the devil will try them and they will be cast into prison for ten days.
Here we are warned of blasphemy of liars, claiming to be Jews, but who are of Satan, and that the devil will try them and cast them into prison for ten days. Anything here that points to chronological order of specific events?
The third church is told of things said by he which hath the sharp sword with two edges. He says the
church dwells where Satan's seat is in those days wherein Antipas my
faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwells. They are warned that among them are those who hold the
doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to
commit fornication. This thing God hates. They are warned to
repent or he would fight against them with the sword of his mouth.
Anything here? Satan is dwelling among them, their are martyrs, false doctrine, and warnings to repent or he would fight against them with the sword of his mouth. Chronological order?
The fourth church he has a few things against because they allow that woman
Jezebel, which calls herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. They are told unless she repents I will cast her into a bed, and
them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And
I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searches the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
False prophetess, fornication, idolatry, adultery, great tribulation, death for children. Chronological order?
The fifth church has a name, or is reputed for being alive, but he says
they are dead. They are told to strengthen what remains, and is ready to die. They are warned to hold fast and
repent or he would come on thee as a thief, and they will not know what hour he will come upon them.
They are dead, and unless they repent he will come as a thief and will not what hour he will come upon them. Chronological order?
The sixth church says he that speaks is he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that opens, and no man shuts; and shuts, and no man opens. Once again he warns of those calling themselves Jews, but are of the
synagogue of Satan. And because they have kept the word of his patience, he also will keep thee from the
hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Warning again of the synagogue of Satan among them, and that there is the hour of temptation coming upon the world, and them that dwell on the earth. Chronological order?
The seventh church the one speaking is the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God. They are chastened for being
lukewarm, and told they would be spewed out of his mouth. Because they say they
rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and do not know they are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked. He warns them to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that they may be rich; and white raiment, that they may be clothed, and
that the shame of their nakedness does not appear; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that they may see.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Warning against being lukewarm, they will be spit out, they see themselves as rich and in need of nothing, but they are wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked. The Lord rebukes and chastens whom He loves. Anything to show chronological order here?
One thing else to consider, you understand the time given the beasts as 42 months, and the time given the witnesses, protection and nourishing the church as 1260 days. You assume these times are consecutive, happening all at once, which of course makes these times very short and limited to specific prophesy only. What if these times are not consecutive, but are all the time given for each?
IOW the beast could use part of the time he is assigned in Rev 13:5 for also stirring up Gentiles in Rev 11:2 to tread under foot the holy city? Both are forty two months. But why are you not also assigning some of the time of 42 months given the beast in Rev 11:7 when he ascends out of the bottomless pit to make war with the saints?
And would not part of this time of 42 months also need to be assigned to Rev 14:9 when the beasts causes many to receive his mark?
Should not also some of this time allotted to the beast be needed in Rev 16 when unclean spirits come out of the mouths of the dragon, beast and false prophet, as spirits of devils who go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty?
And would not some of the time allotted to the beast be needed to carry the great harlot, mystery Babylon in Rev 17? Also in Rev 19 where the beast and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army?
This has already become a novel and I don't even know if you are interested in discussing this in this manner. So until I hear back from you I'll end it here. This gives you plenty to consider.
