Status
Not open for further replies.

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Because of the ritual Sabbath command sandwiched between the nine commands dealing with moral issues, the ten commandments were the guide for the one nation the Sabbath was given Commands dealing with morality were and are forever for all mankind. The command given only Israel to observe a day was ceremonial command only for Israel. This is easy to comprehend if we study the New Testament.

Not really dear friend. All of God's 10 commandments are moral law as shown above of our duty of love to God and man. God's 4th commandments is one of our duty of love to God and how we love God with all of our heart and mind as shown already in MATTHEW 22:36-40; LUKE 10:25-28; MATTHEW 19:16-21; ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12.

According to God's Word in the new covenant God's ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word *ROMANS 9:6-8; EPHESIANS 2:11-13; GALATIANS 3:28-29; ROMANS 2:28-29; COLOSSIANS 3:11. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the new covenant promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12 from JEREMIAH 31:31-34. Gentile believers are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27 and all are one in Christ *ROMANS 10:11-13

Hope this helps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andre_b
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
LoveGodsWord said: Just the same as we do not love our neighbour by...

5. Not honouring our parents *EXODUS 20:12
6. Killing our neighbour*EXODUS 20:13
7. Committing adultery with their spouses *EXODUS 20:14
8. Stealing from them *EXODUS 20:15
9. Lying to them *EXODUS 20:16
10. Coveting what they have been given from God *EXODUS 20:17
Your response here...
Except when we read the letter to the Galatians where Paul tells the Galatians the following sins that are not mentioned in the nine. Chapter 5:19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God
There is no "except" dear friend. GALATIANS 5:19 is in agreement with my post you are quoting from. The GREEK words used for "FLESH" G4561; σάρξ; sarx means the carnal mind or sinful human nature. Sin originates in the heart/mind, thoughts and feelings (see MATTHEW 5:17-28). This is what we need to be saved from. Salvation is from the INSIDE OUT.

JESUS came to magnify the LAW from the INSIDE OUT quoting MATTHEW 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *ISAIAH 42:21. This is to show that unless our RIGHTOUESNESS EXCEEDS the RIGHTOUESNESS of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. EVIL begins in the HEART. BREAKING GOD's 10 COMMANDMENTS from the heart defile a man *MATTHEW 15:18-19. JESUS is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:27-28. JESUS magnified the LAW to the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the HEART (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the NEW COVENANT promise and need to be BORN AGAIN by Faith in God's WORD for salvation to be free from SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

If we are not BORN AGAIN into the NEW COVENANT promise and continue in it we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. ALL those who KNOWINGLY break any one of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who KNOWINGLY CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. There is no such thing as the 9 commandments in God's WORD. The same as there is no scripure that says God's 4th commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

RIGHTESOUSNESS (obedience to God's Law) comes from LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very expression of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. He that does not LOVE does not KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are BORN AGAIN have a NEW HEART TO LOVE and FOLLOW GOD *1 JOHN 4:7. This is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Those who are BORN AGAIN do not practice SIN (breaking God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4-9. This is why JOHN finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me KEEP my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN under the NEW COVENANT to LOVE we will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the INSIDE OUT.

Sorry Bob, seems God's Word disagrees with you here.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I fully agree with your post. Observing a day to rest in our Savior is commendable. What is not commendable is trying to convince people that it is an obligation and those who do not observe a day are sinning as written in the following statement: Sin is defined in God's Word as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments as shown in JAMES 2:10-11; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 or not believing and following God's Word *ROMANS 14:23. Furthermore, in the case of SDA's one has to agree to a set of 28 fundamental doctrines some of which have nothing to do with salvation.

Well that has no truth in it Bob. According to God's Word (not my words) SIN is indeed defined as breaking anyone of Gods' 10 commandments. All your doing here is denying God's Word with your words that are not God's but yours. I prefer to believe what God says and it is God not me that says SIN is defined as breaking anyone of Gods' 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11; ROMANS 7:7 and not believing and following His Word *ROMANS 14:23

NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF YE DO WELL (see MATTHEW 22:36-40; LUKE 10:25-28; MATTHEW 19:16-21; ROMANS 13:8-10 and compare to DETUERONOMY 6:5 and LEVITICUS 19:18 love summing up God's 10 commandments):
[9], But if ye have respect to persons, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, YET IF THOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

Yep, James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW and commit SIN. James quotes two of the 10 Commandments saying that if we break them we commit sin v9 that are summed up in the 2nd great commandments of LOVE to God and LOVE to our neighbour in v11. Maybe you missed that one?

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: for I had not known lust, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID THOU SHALL NOT COVET.

Well here we have Paul in agreement with James also telling us that he did not know what sin was without God's 10 Commandments. SIN is breaking God's commandments and Paul uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

links to...

1 JOHN 3:4 [4] Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

John is saying the same thing as James and Paul and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments). We will look at the chapter context John uses v15 of MURDER as an example of sin which is God's 6th Command of the 10.


Sin is indeed defined in God's WORD as breaking any of the 10 Commandments in both the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures or not believing and following Gods Word.

................

SIN IN THE OLD TESTAMENT BREAKING THE 10 COMMANDMENTS (Summarized)

When Potiphar’s wife came to Joseph with the aim of committing adultery, Joseph knew it was sin and protested saying how then can I do this great wickedness, AND SIN AGAINST GOD? (GENESIS 39:9).

God said that if Israel was not to make a covenant with the other nations and serve their god's it WOULD BE SIN (EXODUS 23:33). When Moses was delayed on the Mount with God the children of ISRAEL made an Idol and worshipped it breaking God's 1st and 2nd commandment (EXODUS 20:3-5). Moses said to them after he returned, you have SINNED A GREAT SIN: and now I will go up unto the LORD; perhaps I shall make an atonement FOR YOUR SIN (EXODUS 32:30; DEUTERONOMY 9:16-18). Moses said to Aaron that by making an idol for the people to worship that it was a GREAT SIN (EXODUS 32:21; 30). God would punish the children of Israel for their SIN OF IDOL WORSHIP (EXODUS 32:34).

God said to Moses in reference to breaking the 10 Commandments; Whosoever has SINNED AGAINST ME, him will I blot out of my book (EXODUS 32:33).

Joshua says stealing is sin (JOSHUA 7:11). Achan knew when he was caught stealing that HE SINNED (JOSHUA 7:20).

When God's people forsake God to worship other God's, they also confess that THEY HAD SINNED in breaking God's commandments (JUDGES 10:10;15). Samuel made atonement for God's people when they wanted to return to God confessing that they had SINNED after they worshipped other Gods breaking God's 1st and 2nd commandments (1 SAMUEL 7:5; 12:10; EXODUS 20:2-5).

King Saul wanted to kill David, but Jonathon spoke good of David saying to him no to sin against David by killing him (1 SAMUEL 19:4). David cut the skirt of King Saul in the cave and said to him that he could have killed him if he wanted to but DID NOT SIN against him by sparing his life (1 SAMUEL 24:11). King Saul replied that in wanting to kill David he HAD SINNED (1 SAMUEL 26:21).

When David became king he desired Bathsheba who was another man’s wife and organized for her husband Uriah the Hitite to be sent to the front line of battle to be killed. God sent Nathan to David and David confessed in doing this that HE HAD SINNED in breaking God's 6th and 7th Commandment (EXODUS 20:13:14). David confessed that HE HAD SINNED to breaking God's LAW (1 SAMUEL 12:13).

Now we can also go through all the evil Kings of Israel that SINNED AGAINST GOD by following and WORSHIPPING OTHER GODS WHICH IS ALSO DEFINED AS SIN in God's WORD but there would be too many scriptures (2 KINGS 17:7). God testified that they served other Gods and idols sending them prophets to warn them of THEIR SINS (2 KINGS 17:12-13; 16-17). We are also told that King Manasseh also broke God's 6th commandment and killed more innocent people then most others testifying that by doing this HE HAD SINNED (2 KINGS 16:17). God continued to send prophets to warn his people of the CONSEQUENCES OF SIN (NEHEMIAH 9:30). God's people CONTINUED IN THEIR SINS forsaking God's LAW (10 commandments) and in doing so God left them and Israel were overthrown and led into captivity to the other nations because they departed from God serving other God's and idols. Nehemiah knew this and prayed to God confessing THEIR SINS (NEHEMIAH 1:6-9). God's people CONTINUED TO SIN against God by worshipping other Gods despite the warning of Jeremiah (JEREMIAH 44:18-23). In despite of God's Word teaching that God's people had forsaken the 10 commandments and SINNED AGAINST GOD, going into captivity, God promised he would bring them back when they returned to him and heal them FROM THEIR SINS of breaking his commandments (EZEKIEL 37:22-23).

Hosea testified by the Word of the Lord that God's people by making idols and worshipping other god's, lying, stealing, killing, committing adultery would receive the judgments of God because THEY HAD SINNED by departing from the 10 Commandments (HOSEA 4:1-19).

The word of the Lord came to Zephaniah saying that all those who continue in sin by worshipping other God's and breaking his commandments will be destroyed off the land because they HAVE SINNED AGAINST GOD (ZEPHANIAH 1:2-17).

...............

Yep God’s WORD is very clear that SIN IS DEFINED AS BREAKING ANY OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS just as James, Paul and John all teach in the NEW TESTAMENT (JAMES 2:10-11; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 3:20). All the above scriptures show by example, quoting individual commandments from the 10 Commandments that SIN is indeed also defined as breaking any of God's 10 Commandments. The same as if we break God's 4th commandment it is sin. According to the scriptures sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of God's kingdom *HEBREWS 10:26-31

Sorry Bob, you should be able to see that God's Word disagrees with you. Sin according to the scriptures in both the old and new testament is breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing God's Word.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Andre_b
Upvote 0

Andre_b

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2020
512
104
43
Ottawa
✟26,357.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
If that is what you believe, that's fine. As long as you believe and obey the words of Jesus too.

Yet Jesus obeyed the Sabbath. He also said that the Sabbath was made for MAN Mark 2:27. Not Jews, or Israel, or Hebrews only... but MANKIND.

Luke even calls the Sabbath "according to THE commandment" yet this was written decades after Jesus' death and resurrection.

Not only that, the new covenant was confirmed at the last supper/death at the cross (Luke 22:20)

After which they rested according to the commandment (Luke 23:56). Not old commandment, not according to the Old Covenant, but clearly according to THE commandment.

Yet somehow people change the meaning of Hebrews 4 quoting the same warning of unbelief that the Israelites had that David was warning about in Psalm 95. Saying that somehow it's saying that the Sabbath is no longer enforced when it clearly says otherwise Hebrews 4:9-11 "There remaineth therefore a (Sabbath) rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

Many translations have Sabbath rest in verse 9. It clearly says it remains.

Verse 10-11 is talking about ceasing our own works "labour" as God did from his creation works during creation week. Verse 11 clearly says the same thing to labour and then enter into that rest. People that do not are unbelievers according to verse 11. Everywhere in the bible it talks about the blessings of the Sabbath.

The Israelites didn't enter the promised land because they ignored the commandments of God due to unbelief and lack of faith. They failed immediately being tested by God of the Sabbath in Exodus 16. Same thing immediately after being given the ten Commandment they created the golden calf. You really need to have a heardened heart to immediately turn around and break the 2nd commandment immediately. Moses pleaded with God for mercy for them. Moses Obeyed God, not most of the Israelites.
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,681
8,037
US
✟1,060,370.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
If that is what you believe, that's fine. As long as you believe and obey the words of Jesus too.

Maybe you are misunderstanding. Paul is saying that we don't have to follow the traditions of Men. This message was also given by Yahshua.


(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andre_b
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,681
8,037
US
✟1,060,370.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
God would not honor the Pharisaic Oral Torah, but whatever day is being referred to in Romans 14, God will honor. So you can see that your interpretation has to be wrong. God accepts those to keep that day for Him, and those who keep trusting and resting in Jesus every second.

The passage doesn't say anything about YHWH honoring "the day."

Let me break this passage down for you.

(CLV) Ro 14:1
Now the infirm in the faith be taking to yourselves, but not for discrimination of reasonings.

(CLV) Ro 14:2
One, indeed, is believing to eat all things, yet the infirm one is eating greens.

(CLV) Ro 14:3
Let not him who is eating be scorning him who is not eating. (fasting) Yet let not him who is not eating (fasting) be judging him who is eating, for God took him to Himself.

Not eating is called fasting.

(CLV) Ro 14:4
Who are you who are judging Another's domestic? To his own Master he is standing or falling. Now he will be made to stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

(CLV) Ro 14:5
One indeed, is deciding for one day rather than another day, yet one is deciding for every day. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.

(CLV) Ro 14:6
He who is disposed to the day, is disposed to it to the Lord; and he who is eating, is eating to the Lord, for he is thanking God. And he who is not eating, (fasting) to the Lord is not eating, (fasting) and is thanking God.

10 times within 6 verses we see the word eating; but some completely ignore the word eating; and want to make this about the Sabbath. Nowhere was the sabbath mentioned in this passage. As a matter of fact, the Sabbath isn't mentioned in this whole letter.

This passage tells the readers not to squabble over which days to fast. YHWH gave no commands on which days to fast.

We can find an examples of these set fast days in Luke 5:33-35, Luke 18:11-12
 
Upvote 0

Word and Spirit

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
344
87
59
Sheridan
✟4,461.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
So it works in one direction but not the other. Got it.
Christ---------->The Father, but not The Father---------->Christ. 10-4

You're imposing conditions here.

Love without law is just subjective, hippie, gobbledygook.

How could God refuse to honor the first five books of the Bible, which He, Himself, inspired? If the type has met antitype, then fine, don't perform the ritual. But the object lesson is still there. It's not even like throwing the baby out with the bathwater, because the bathwater must stay, be examined and cleansed. The universe must emerge from the conflict between Christ and Satan in perfect purity.

How can you not see that these are all arbitrary pronouncements or thinly-veiled judgments upon others?

I can't understand why people think they need to leave the Adventist church to find liberty from condemnation. As if there were some kind of virus there that suppressed justification.

For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity. (Proverbs 24:16)
Interesting that He uses the #7. In the weekly cycle after 7 comes 1. So the falling and rising again is unlimited on God's side. Only when we grieve the Spirit of God by refusing to allow Him to serve in His office as the One Who convicts are we left alone.

Like Pastor Henry Wright says: "I'm just readin' the Bible, Y'all."

This is what A.T. Jones had to say about getting tired of elusive victory in Christ:


We have heard many people tell how hard they found it to do right; their Christian life was most unsatisfactory to them, being marked only by failure, and they were tempted to give up in discouragement. No wonder they get discouraged; continual failure is enough to discourage anybody. The bravest soldier in the world would become faint-hearted if he had been defeated in every battle. Sometimes these persons will mournfully tell that they have about lost confidence in themselves. Poor souls, if they would only lose confidence in themselves entirely, and would put their whole trust in the one who is mighty to save, they would have a different story to tell. They would then “joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Says the apostle, “Rejoice in the Lord always; and again I say, Rejoice.” Phil. 4:4. The man who doesn’t rejoice in God, even though tempted and afflicted, is not fighting the good fight of faith. He is fighting the poor fight of self-confidence and defeat.

All the promises of final happiness are to the overcomer. “To him that overcometh,” says Jesus, “will I give to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.” Rev. 3:21. “He that overcometh shall inherit all things,” says the Lord. Rev. 21:7. An overcomer is one who gains victories. The inheriting is not the overcoming; that is only the reward for overcoming. The overcoming is now; the victories to be gained are victories over the lusts of the flesh, the lusts of the eyes, and the pride of life,-victories over self and selfish indulgences. The man who fights and sees the foe give way, may rejoice; nobody can keep him from rejoicing, for joy comes spontaneously as the result of seeing the enemy give way. Some folks look with dread upon the thought of having to wage a continual warfare with self and worldly lusts. That is because they do not as yet know anything about the joy of victory; they have experienced only defeat. But it isn’t so doleful a thing to battle constantly, when there is continual victory. The old veteran of a hundred battles, who has been victorious in every fight, longs to be at the scene of conflict. Alexander’s soldiers, who under his command never knew defeat, were always impatient to be led into the fray. Each victory increased their strength, which was born only of courage, and correspondingly diminished that of the vanquished foe.

But when a person sees himself so ungodly as to find there no possible ground of hope for justification, it is just there that faith comes in; indeed, it is only there that faith can possibly come in.

But when every conceivable ground of hope of any dependence on anything in or about himself is gone and is acknowledged to be gone; when everything that can be seen is against any hope of justification, then it is that, throwing himself on the promise of God, upon the word only, hoping against hope, faith enters and by faith he finds justification full and free, all ungodly though he be.


Lessons On Faith, 1899

Over 12o years have passed and we just act as if all we have is the teachinsg of the Pharisees.


I've always said that the problem with legalists is that they don't take the law seriously enough.

Conversely, the problem with cheap grace advocates is that they don't take grace seriously enough.

Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. I cannot in faith trample the law of God (Who is one with Christ).

I've struggled against the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, and the pride of life for 50+ years.

I believe with all my heart in religious liberty for all. Period.

As for me, I'm not giving up now. I'm not going to allow Satan to taunt Christ on my account.

I really liked the 1899 sermon, especially the part close to the end that you, or someone, underlined. That describes what I came to right before I was born again, after 30 years of trying to live right in the flesh.
 
Upvote 0

Word and Spirit

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
344
87
59
Sheridan
✟4,461.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
According to God's Word (not mine) no one is born of God's Spirit by knowingly breaking his commandments and not obeying what God says *ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 5:29-31; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. This is the same as no one can claim to love God by breaking his commandments *1 JOHN 5:3; 1 JOHN 1:6; JOHN 14:15. Then we have ROMANS 14 which is not talking about what you think it is saying. ROMANS 14 is talking about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days and judging others in this regard. It is not a reference to God's 4th commandment. The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes according to LUKE 16:15. The divine nature does not practice sin (breaking God's law).

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

As I said, I know that is what you believe, and I don't fault you for it. You believe it honestly, and I hope you live by it. For, indeed, what is not of faith is sin.

BTW. Do you believe in these commandments of the New Covenant: 1 John 3:23? As long as you believe in these teachings of Jesus, I don't care if you keep the Old Covenant commandments too. I won't worry about you. :)
 
Upvote 0

Word and Spirit

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
344
87
59
Sheridan
✟4,461.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Yet Jesus obeyed the Sabbath. He also said that the Sabbath was made for MAN Mark 2:27. Not Jews, or Israel, or Hebrews only... but MANKIND.

Luke even calls the Sabbath "according to THE commandment" yet this was written decades after Jesus' death and resurrection.

Not only that, the new covenant was confirmed at the last supper/death at the cross (Luke 22:20)

After which they rested according to the commandment (Luke 23:56). Not old commandment, not according to the Old Covenant, but clearly according to THE commandment.

Yet somehow people change the meaning of Hebrews 4 quoting the same warning of unbelief that the Israelites had that David was warning about in Psalm 95. Saying that somehow it's saying that the Sabbath is no longer enforced when it clearly says otherwise Hebrews 4:9-11 "There remaineth therefore a (Sabbath) rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

Many translations have Sabbath rest in verse 9. It clearly says it remains.

Verse 10-11 is talking about ceasing our own works "labour" as God did from his creation works during creation week. Verse 11 clearly says the same thing to labour and then enter into that rest. People that do not are unbelievers according to verse 11. Everywhere in the bible it talks about the blessings of the Sabbath.

The Israelites didn't enter the promised land because they ignored the commandments of God due to unbelief and lack of faith. They failed immediately being tested by God of the Sabbath in Exodus 16. Same thing immediately after being given the ten Commandment they created the golden calf. You really need to have a heardened heart to immediately turn around and break the 2nd commandment immediately. Moses pleaded with God for mercy for them. Moses Obeyed God, not most of the Israelites.

Jesus was born under the Law, so, of course He kept the Law perfectly along with His family. The Old Covenant didn't come to an end until He died, and His last words were "It is finished."
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Word and Spirit

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
344
87
59
Sheridan
✟4,461.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Maybe you are misunderstanding. Paul is saying that we don't have to follow the traditions of Men. This message was also given by Yahshua.


(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

What traditions of men? I was asking you if you believe in 1 John 3:23, the teachings of Jesus for the New Covenant?
 
Upvote 0

Andre_b

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2020
512
104
43
Ottawa
✟26,357.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
Jesus was born under the Law, so, of course He kept the Law perfectly along with His family. The Old Covenant didn't come to an end until He died, and His last words were "It is finished."

Exactly, it's what i explained to you that the New Covenant was confirmed at the cross which Luke records in 22:20.

Then Luke records after the cross that they rested ACCORDING TO THE COMMANDMENT. Luke 23:56

Luke recorded all this decades later an could have easily clarified if it wasn't according to the commandment, since they were now under the new covenant.
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,681
8,037
US
✟1,060,370.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

Word and Spirit

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
344
87
59
Sheridan
✟4,461.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
The passage doesn't say anything about YHWH honoring "the day."

Let me break this passage down for you.

(CLV) Ro 14:1
Now the infirm in the faith be taking to yourselves, but not for discrimination of reasonings.

(CLV) Ro 14:2
One, indeed, is believing to eat all things, yet the infirm one is eating greens.

(CLV) Ro 14:3
Let not him who is eating be scorning him who is not eating. (fasting) Yet let not him who is not eating (fasting) be judging him who is eating, for God took him to Himself.

Not eating is called fasting.

(CLV) Ro 14:4
Who are you who are judging Another's domestic? To his own Master he is standing or falling. Now he will be made to stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

(CLV) Ro 14:5
One indeed, is deciding for one day rather than another day, yet one is deciding for every day. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.

(CLV) Ro 14:6
He who is disposed to the day, is disposed to it to the Lord; and he who is eating, is eating to the Lord, for he is thanking God. And he who is not eating, (fasting) to the Lord is not eating, (fasting) and is thanking God.

10 times within 6 verses we see the word eating; but some completely ignore the word eating; and want to make this about the Sabbath. Nowhere was the sabbath mentioned in this passage. As a matter of fact, the Sabbath isn't mentioned in this whole letter.

This passage tells the readers not to squabble over which days to fast. YHWH gave no commands on which days to fast.

We can find an examples of these set fast days in Luke 5:33-35, Luke 18:11-12

That's one way to look at it, and from your viewpoint I can see how you can say that, even though the word fasting could have been used. Then I would agree, but it wasn't.

So where else is Paul making a connection between what to eat, and days. Colossians 2. The Old Covenant had laws for special days and Sabbaths, and also laws regarding foods. "Touch not." "Taste not." And to paralell with Romans 14, the weak in faith find themselves legalistic about meats, maybe not knowing if the meat in the marketplace had first been offered to idols, so would rather just eat greens.

Then the same weak legalistic person would still keep days in the flesh, rather than recognize that Jesus was the substance of all the old holy convocations, including the weekly Sabbath.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Word and Spirit

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
344
87
59
Sheridan
✟4,461.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Exactly, it's what i explained to you that the New Covenant was confirmed at the cross which Luke records in 22:20.

Then Luke records after the cross that they rested ACCORDING TO THE COMMANDMENT. Luke 23:56

Luke recorded all this decades later an could have easily clarified if it wasn't according to the commandment, since they were now under the new covenant.

The New Covenant didn't come into effect until the Day of Pentecost. The apostles didn't know about it until after Jesus was resurrected.
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,681
8,037
US
✟1,060,370.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

Word and Spirit

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
344
87
59
Sheridan
✟4,461.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
No he wasn't No one is under the law; unless they break the law.

Okay, then He was born in the Law.

Why is it written that he learned obedience?

The only time I can think of was in the Garden of Gethsemane. That suffering gave Him determination. I can relate. My biggest growth spurt in my walk with the Lord came after suffering, and decided that even though my life was in danger, I would allow it, rather than to sin against God's Word.

Incorrect. Those last words weren't in reference to the covenant.

Yes, it was, but I can understand if you don't agree.
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,681
8,037
US
✟1,060,370.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Yes, and John already told us what those commandments are in 1 John 3:23.

Yes; but we don't want to ignore Yahshua.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Word and Spirit

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
344
87
59
Sheridan
✟4,461.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.