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Word and Spirit

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Here is what YHWH has to say about it:

From Decalogue
(CLV) Ex 20:6
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

Here is what his son says:

(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

Here is what his son's student says:

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,


Hark, In 1 John 3:23, John is telling us what the commandments are in 1 John 5 that you mentioned. John uses the word "commandments" a lot in his writings in his gospel, epistles and Revelation, but they are not to be confused with the Ten Commandments of the Old Law as often happens with Messianics and SDA. We must always learn what the apostle means, and not what we hope he means.

1 John 3:
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1 John 5:
1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
 
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HARK!

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Hark, In 1 John 3:23, John is telling us what the commandments are in 1 John 5 that you mentioned. John uses the word "commandments" a lot in his writings in his gospel, epistles and Revelation, but they are not to be confused with the Ten Commandments of the Old Law as often happens with Messianics and SDA. We must always learn what the apostle means, and not what we hope he means.

I didn't reference 1 John 3. When YHWH says keep his commandments, the commandments that Yahshua preached for his entire ministry, unto death; then I take that as keeping all of them. I'm with you on that Sister! We can't pick and choose which commandments we like; and ignore the rest.

Hallelu YAH!
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Love is expressed through obedience to the law. Love is not expressed through breaking it as shown in ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12; MATTHEW 22:36-40.

For example...

We do not love God by...

1. Having other God's *EXODUS 20:3
2. Making idols and bowing down to them and worshipping them *EXODUS 20:4-5
3. Using God's name in vain *EXODUS 20:7
4. Forgetting God's "seventh day" Sabbath and not keeping it Holy and working on it *EXODUS 20:8-11

Just the same as we do not love our neighbour by...

5. Not honouring our parents *EXODUS 20:12
6. Killing our neighbour*EXODUS 20:13
7. Committing adultery with their spouses *EXODUS 20:14
8. Stealing from them *EXODUS 20:15
9. Lying to them *EXODUS 20:16
10. Coveting what they have been given from God *EXODUS 20:17

This is why JESUS says "ON THESE TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS OF LOVE TO GOD AND MAN" HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets. *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

You cannot separate love from obedience to God's law as it is only through a new heart to love *JOHN 3:3-7; JOHN 5:42; HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:6-9 that God's law is expressed *ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12 and established *ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4 in the lives of those who believe Gods' Word and walk in God's Spirit *GALATAINS 5:16 and been born again through faith to love *1 JOHN 3:6-9; 1 JOHN 4:7; 1 JOHN 5:4; 1 JOHN 5:18.

Your trying to seprate love from God's law when love is expressed through it and this is where your in error. God's law (10 commandments) are not abolished they are establsihed in those who believe and follow God's Word *ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-9; REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14.


Sin is defined in God's Word as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments as shown in JAMES 2:10-11; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 or not believing and following God's Word *ROMANS 14:23. The reason why JOHN writes 1 JOHN is that we sin not (do not break God's commandments and believe His Word) *1 JOHN 2:1. Love is expressed through obedience to God's 10 commandments which is our duty of love to God and man. This is why JESUS says on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. We need a new heart to love. This is God's new covenant promise in all those who believe Gods' Word and follow it *HEBREWS 8:10-12.
 
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Love is expressed through obedience to the law. Love is not expressed through breaking it as shown in ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12; MATTHEW 22:46-40.

For example...

We do not love God by...

1. Having other God's *EXODUS 20:3
2. Making idols and bowing down to them and worshipping them *EXODUS 20:4-5
3. Using God's name in vain *EXODUS 20:7
4. Forgetting God's "seventh day" Sabbath and not keeping it Holy and working on it *EXODUS 20:8-11

Just the same as we do not love our neighbour by...

5. Not honouring our parents *EXODUS 20:12
6. Killing our neighbour*EXODUS 20:13
7. Committing adultery with their spouses *EXODUS 20:14
8. Stealing from them *EXODUS 20:15
9. Lying to them *EXODUS 20:16
10. Coveting what they have been given from God *EXODUS 20:17

This is why JESUS says "ON THESE TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS OF LOVE TO GOD AND MAN" HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets. *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

You cannot separate love from obedience to God's law as it is only through a new heart to love *JOHN 3:3-7; JOHN 5:42; HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:6-9 that God's law is expressed *ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12 and established *ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4 in the lives of those who believe Gods' Word and walk in God's Spirit *GALATAINS 5:16 and been born again through faith to love *1 JOHN 3:6-9; 1 JOHN 4:7; 1 JOHN 5:4; 1 JOHN 5:18.

Your trying to seprate love from God's law when love is expressed through it and this is where your in error. God's law (10 commandments) are not abolished they are establsihed in those who believe and follow God's Word *ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-9; REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14.


Sin is defined in God's Word as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments as shown in JAMES 2:10-11; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 or not believing and following God's Word *ROMANS 14:23. The reason why JOHN writes 1 JOHN is that we sin not (do not break God's commandments and believe His Word) *1 JOHN 2:1. Love is expressed through obedience to God's 10 commandments which is our duty of love to God and man. This is why JESUS says on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. We need a new heart to love. This is God's new covenant promise in all those who believe Gods' Word and follow it *HEBREWS 8:10-12.

Most of this just seems like common sense to me. I just don't understand why some have so much difficulty understanding this.
 
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Bob S

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Hark, In 1 John 3:23, John is telling us what the commandments are in 1 John 5 that you mentioned. John uses the word "commandments" a lot in his writings in his gospel, epistles and Revelation, but they are not to be confused with the Ten Commandments of the Old Law as often happens with Messianics and SDA. We must always learn what the apostle means, and not what we hope he means.

1 John 3:
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1 John 5:
1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
You are so right on. Those who tell us we are under obligation to observe Sabbath cannot accept the truth of 1Jn 3: 19-24. That and many more scriptural proofs are swept under the rug, ignored and woe to those who challenge them on the subject.

For instance, 2Cor3: 6-11 Paul writes that the guidance of the 10 commandments have been replaced with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. He doesn't beat around the bush there and in Eph 2:15 where he wrote: He stopped the fighting between them by His death on the cross. He put an end to the Law. Then He made of the two people one new kind of people like Himself. In this way, He made peace.

Linking those scriptures with Jesus own words in Matt 5:16-17 where He tells us He came to fulfill the Law gives us full proof that we are not under the ten commandments. The Sabbath pushers go to great lengths to tell us fulfill does not mean bring to an end. They will not recognize that in the same sentence He also mentioned fulfilling the prophets. The prophets prophesied Jesus coming and His coming brought those prophecies to an end. That is a very simple correlation, but the Sabbath observers completely dismiss it.
 
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Word and Spirit

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You are so right on. Those who tell us we are under obligation to observe Sabbath cannot accept the truth of 1Jn 3: 19-24. That and many more scriptural proofs are swept under the rug, ignored and woe to those who challenge them on the subject.

For instance, 2Cor3: 6-11 Paul writes that the guidance of the 10 commandments have been replaced with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. He doesn't beat around the bush there and in Eph 2:15 where he wrote: He stopped the fighting between them by His death on the cross. He put an end to the Law. Then He made of the two people one new kind of people like Himself. In this way, He made peace.

Linking those scriptures with Jesus own words in Matt 5:16-17 where He tells us He came to fulfill the Law gives us full proof that we are not under the ten commandments. The Sabbath pushers go to great lengths to tell us fulfill does not mean bring to an end. They will not recognize that in the same sentence He also mentioned fulfilling the prophets. The prophets prophesied Jesus coming and His coming brought those prophecies to an end. That is a very simple correlation, but the Sabbath observers completely dismiss it.

Hi Bob, Personally I don't mind them wanting to keep the 7th day Sabbath, as long as they also keep the commandments of Jesus in 1 John 3:23. Those are the important ones but take the baptism of the Holy Spirit to fulfill. Romans 14 tells us we are not to judge each other if one believes in keeping a day (in the flesh), and another treats everyday as if it is TODAY of Hebrews 4, having developed a very personal moment by moment relationship with Jesus. Unfortunately, even though I don't judge them, they believe I will be judged by God for breaking the 4th commandment of the LAW I'm not under. You see they don't believe I can be out from under the Law if I seem to be breaking the 4th. If you break one, you break them all. I love Adventists. They have a healthy fear of the Lord, as do I. And I can understand their reasoning, and that is easy to forgive their judgement of me. Their judgment is not out of arrogance, but out of love. I do the same in my fear for Calvinists and Antinomians being judged harshly by God! I want to see them saved. Those are who I mostly minister to. I minister to Adventists only because I really started to grow after leaving the denomination, and never joined another, but do like John Wesley.

Ever since I was first born again being filled with His Spirit to overflowing, 30 years AFTER starting to go to church every week, I realized that many in the whole Church are still being drawn by the Holy Spirit to come fully to Christ for salvation, but they do not have the laws written on their hearts, to keep them naturally out of a divine nature 2 Peter 1:2-4. They are doing everything by their old carnal nature like the person in Romans 7:14-23 who tries to keep the law with their knowledge of it, but their flesh is contrary to it. It is always a struggle, and church is more a social gathering than growing in Jesus.
 
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Bob S

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Love is expressed through obedience to the law. Love is not expressed through breaking it as shown in ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12; MATTHEW 22:46-40.
Not at all LGW. The law could be kept out of fear of reprisal. Jesus told us in Jn 15 what true love is: 9 ‘As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

There was nothing in the ten commandments about love. Because of the ritual Sabbath command sandwiched between the nine commands dealing with moral issues, the ten commandments were the guide for the one nation the Sabbath was given.

For example...

We do not love God by...

1. Having other God's *EXODUS 20:3
2. Making idols and bowing down to them and worshipping them *EXODUS 20:4-5
3. Using God's name in vain *EXODUS 20:7
4. Forgetting God's "seventh day" Sabbath and not keeping it Holy and working on it *EXODUS 20:8-11
Commands dealing with morality were and are forever for all mankind. The command given only Israel to observe a day was ceremonial command only for Israel. This is easy to comprehend if we study the New Testament.

Just the same as we do not love our neighbour by...

5. Not honouring our parents *EXODUS 20:12
6. Killing our neighbour*EXODUS 20:13
7. Committing adultery with their spouses *EXODUS 20:14
8. Stealing from them *EXODUS 20:15
9. Lying to them *EXODUS 20:16
10. Coveting what they have been given from God *EXODUS 20:17
Except when we read the letter to the Galatians where Paul tells the Galatians the following sins that are not mentioned in the nine. Chapter 5:19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

This is why JESUS says "ON THESE TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS OF LOVE TO GOD AND MAN" HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets. *MATTHEW 22:36-40.
It is interesting that you quoted Jesus answer to a question of which is the greatest commandment of all and Jesus quoted two that were not in the ten commandments. 37 Jesus replied: ‘“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: “Love your neighbour as yourself.” 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.’

Jesus didn't say those commands hang on the ten commandments, He said ALL THE LAW. You are promoting something that is not true in the least. You just mentioned the ten LGW. If someone reading your post would be convinced Jesus was referring to the ten commandments because of what you wrote, you would be misleading them. Proof of your misleading statement is the following paragraph where you tied God's law to the ten commandments. "Your trying to seprate love from God's law when love is expressed through it and this is where your in error. God's law (10 commandments) are not abolished they are establsihed in those who believe and follow God's Word"

You cannot separate love from obedience to God's law as it is only through a new heart to love
Except that you mislead us in telling us God's law is the ten commandments

that God's law is expressed *ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12 and established *ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4 in the lives of those who believe Gods' Word and walk in God's Spirit *GALATAINS 5:16 and been born again through faith to love *1 JOHN 3:6-9; 1 JOHN 4:7; 1 JOHN 5:4; 1 JOHN 5:18.
Is Jesus God LGW? Jesus expressed His law in John 15: 9 ‘As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. and expressed in 1Jn 3: 19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 if our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: we know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Sin is defined in God's Word as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments as shown in JAMES 2:10-11; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 or not believing and following God's Word *ROMANS 14:23. The reason why JOHN writes 1 JOHN is that we sin not (do not break God's commandments and believe His Word) *1 JOHN 2:1. Love is expressed through obedience to God's 10 commandments which is our duty of love to God and man. This is why JESUS says on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. We need a new heart to love. This is God's new covenant promise in all those who believe Gods' Word and follow it *HEBREWS 8:10-12.
I will take just the first scripture that LGW used in his comment. James 2: 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ also said, ‘You shall not murder.’ If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a law-breaker.

James tells us it is the WHOLE LAW. Notice that LGW condenses it to the ten commandments. The whole law contained the greatest commands according to Jesus, but LGW maintains that sin is defined by the ten commandments. Now look for LGW to come back with a post that will condemn all that I have written. He is good at maneuvering.
 
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Word and Spirit

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Not at all LGW. The law could be kept out of fear of reprisal. Jesus told us in Jn 15 what true love is: 9 ‘As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

There was nothing in the ten commandments about love. Because of the ritual Sabbath command sandwiched between the nine commands dealing with moral issues, the ten commandments were the guide for the one nation the Sabbath was given.


Commands dealing with morality were and are forever for all mankind. The command given only Israel to observe a day was ceremonial command only for Israel. This is easy to comprehend if we study the New Testament.

Except when we read the letter to the Galatians where Paul tells the Galatians the following sins that are not mentioned in the nine. Chapter 5:19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

It is interesting that you quoted Jesus answer to a question of which is the greatest commandment of all and Jesus quoted two that were not in the ten commandments. 37 Jesus replied: ‘“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: “Love your neighbour as yourself.” 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.’

Jesus didn't say those commands hang on the ten commandments, He said ALL THE LAW. You are promoting something that is not true in the least. You just mentioned the ten LGW. If someone reading your post would be convinced Jesus was referring to the ten commandments because of what you wrote, you would be misleading them. Proof of your misleading statement is the following paragraph where you tied God's law to the ten commandments. "Your trying to seprate love from God's law when love is expressed through it and this is where your in error. God's law (10 commandments) are not abolished they are establsihed in those who believe and follow God's Word"


Except that you mislead us in telling us God's law is the ten commandments


Is Jesus God LGW? Jesus expressed His law in John 15: 9 ‘As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. and expressed in 1Jn 3: 19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 if our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: we know it by the Spirit he gave us.

I will take just the first scripture that LGW used in his comment. James 2: 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ also said, ‘You shall not murder.’ If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a law-breaker.

James tells us it is the WHOLE LAW. Notice that LGW condenses it to the ten commandments. The whole law contained the greatest commands according to Jesus, but LGW maintains that sin is defined by the ten commandments. Now look for LGW to come back with a post that will condemn all that I have written. He is good at maneuvering.

Wow! Thanks Bob. I know John 15:10 by heart, but haven't read verse 12 in a while. It is the same as 1 John 3:23. How can anyone not see that the commandments of Jesus are an exact duplicate of the eternal laws of God of love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself? The Ten Commandments were based on them, but had no power to make anyone righteous as the commandments of Jesus do, because it takes Jesus being inside us to make that happen.
 
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Hi Bob, Personally I don't mind them wanting to keep the 7th day Sabbath, as long as they also keep the commandments of Jesus in 1 John 3:23. Those are the important ones but take the baptism of the Holy Spirit to fulfill. Romans 14 tells us we are not to judge each other if one believes in keeping a day (in the flesh), and another treats everyday as if it is TODAY of Hebrews 4, having developed a very personal moment by moment relationship with Jesus. Unfortunately, even though I don't judge them, they believe I will be judged by God for breaking the 4th commandment of the LAW I'm not under. You see they don't believe I can be out from under the Law if I seem to be breaking the 4th. If you break one, you break them all. I love Adventists. They have a healthy fear of the Lord, as do I. And I can understand their reasoning, and that is easy to forgive their judgement of me. Their judgment is not out of arrogance, but out of love. I do the same in my fear for Calvinists and Antinomians being judged harshly by God! I want to see them saved. Those are who I mostly minister to. I minister to Adventists only because I really started to grow after leaving the denomination, and never joined another, but do like John Wesley.

Ever since I was first born again being filled with His Spirit to overflowing, 30 years AFTER starting to go to church every week, I realized that many in the whole Church are still being drawn by the Holy Spirit to come fully to Christ for salvation, but they do not have the laws written on their hearts, to keep them naturally out of a divine nature 2 Peter 1:2-4. They are doing everything by their old carnal nature like the person in Romans 7:14-23 who tries to keep the law with their knowledge of it, but their flesh is contrary to it. It is always a struggle, and church is more a social gathering than growing in Jesus.
I fully agree with your post. Observing a day to rest in our Savior is commendable. What is not commendable is trying to convince people that it is an obligation and those who do not observe a day are sinning as written in the following statement: Sin is defined in God's Word as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments as shown in JAMES 2:10-11; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 or not believing and following God's Word *ROMANS 14:23.

Furthermore, in the case of SDA's one has to agree to a set of 28 fundamental doctrines some of which have nothing to do with salvation.
 
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Bob S

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Wow! Thanks Bob. I know John 15:10 by heart, but haven't read verse 12 in a while. It is the same as 1 John 3:23. How can anyone not see that the commandments of Jesus are an exact duplicate of the eternal laws of God of love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself? The Ten Commandments were based on them, but had no power to make anyone righteous as the commandments of Jesus do, because it takes Jesus being inside us to make that happen.
Amen!
 
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For instance, 2Cor3: 6-11 Paul writes that the guidance of the 10 commandments have been replaced with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Paul doesn't say that the Torah was being nullified, in Moses' face. He's saying that the esteem of YHWH was being nullified.

Paul doesn't contradict himself.

(CLV) Ga 3:24
So that the law has become our escort to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.

"Has become" is the present perfect tense.

(CLV) Ro 3:31
Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law.

(CLV) Ro 7:25
I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law.

Slaving for YHWH's Torah... These don't sound like the words of someone who is encouraging you to become lawless.
 
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Romans 14 tells us we are not to judge each other if one believes in keeping a day (in the flesh), and another treats everyday as if it is TODAY of

That passage has nothing to do with the Sabbath. It's about the schedule of fasting twice a week according to the Pharisaic Oral Torah, the doctrines of men that Yahshua often rebuked.
 
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Word and Spirit

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That passage has nothing to do with the Sabbath. It's about the schedule of fasting twice a week according to the Pharisaic Oral Torah, the doctrines of men that Yahshua often rebuked.

If that is what you believe, that's fine. As long as you believe and obey the words of Jesus too.
 
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Word and Spirit

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Yep funny how some people try to teach love is separate from God's law when it is expressed through it according to the scriptures as shown in MATTHEW 22:36-40; ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12. Actually in MATTHEW 22:36-40, Jesus is actually quoting old testament scripture in DEUTERONOMY 6:5 and LEVITCUS 19:18 with the same question being asked in MATTHEW 22:36-40 being asked in MATTHEW 19:16-23. This is why JESUS says "ON THESE TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS of love to God and love to man HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets v40.

God bless

God's eternal law is all about LOVE. Love God with all your heart, mind and body, and love your neighbor as yourself. They are the same as the commandments of Jesus, to believe on Him and love your neighbor as yourself. Those who abide in Christ, abide in His love.
 
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Word and Spirit

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That passage has nothing to do with the Sabbath. It's about the schedule of fasting twice a week according to the Pharisaic Oral Torah, the doctrines of men that Yahshua often rebuked.

God would not honor the Pharisaic Oral Torah, but whatever day is being referred to in Romans 14, God will honor. So you can see that your interpretation has to be wrong. God accepts those to keep that day for Him, and those who keep trusting and resting in Jesus every second.
 
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Cshuffle777

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they are not to be confused with the Ten Commandments of the Old Law

Those are the important ones

church is more a social gathering than growing in Jesus

How can anyone not see that the commandments of Jesus are an exact duplicate of the eternal laws of God of love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself? The Ten Commandments were based on them, but had no power to make anyone righteous as the commandments of Jesus do, because it takes Jesus being inside us to make that happen.
So it works in one direction but not the other. Got it.
Christ---------->The Father, but not The Father---------->Christ. 10-4
As long as you believe and obey the words of Jesus too.
You're imposing conditions here.
God's eternal law is all about LOVE. Love God with all your heart, mind and body, and love your neighbor as yourself. They are the same as the commandments of Jesus, to believe on Him and love your neighbor as yourself. Those who abide in Christ, abide in His love.
Love without law is just subjective, hippie, gobbledygook.
God would not honor the Pharisaic Oral Torah, but whatever day is being referred to in Romans 14, God will honor. So you can see that your interpretation has to be wrong. God accepts those to keep that day for Him, and those who keep trusting and resting in Jesus every second.
How could God refuse to honor the first five books of the Bible, which He, Himself, inspired? If the type has met antitype, then fine, don't perform the ritual. But the object lesson is still there. It's not even like throwing the baby out with the bathwater, because the bathwater must stay, be examined and cleansed. The universe must emerge from the conflict between Christ and Satan in perfect purity.

How can you not see that these are all arbitrary pronouncements or thinly-veiled judgments upon others?

I can't understand why people think they need to leave the Adventist church to find liberty from condemnation. As if there were some kind of virus there that suppressed justification.

For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity. (Proverbs 24:16)
Interesting that He uses the #7. In the weekly cycle after 7 comes 1. So the falling and rising again is unlimited on God's side. Only when we grieve the Spirit of God by refusing to allow Him to serve in His office as the One Who convicts are we left alone.

Like Pastor Henry Wright says: "I'm just readin' the Bible, Y'all."

This is what A.T. Jones had to say about getting tired of elusive victory in Christ:


We have heard many people tell how hard they found it to do right; their Christian life was most unsatisfactory to them, being marked only by failure, and they were tempted to give up in discouragement. No wonder they get discouraged; continual failure is enough to discourage anybody. The bravest soldier in the world would become faint-hearted if he had been defeated in every battle. Sometimes these persons will mournfully tell that they have about lost confidence in themselves. Poor souls, if they would only lose confidence in themselves entirely, and would put their whole trust in the one who is mighty to save, they would have a different story to tell. They would then “joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Says the apostle, “Rejoice in the Lord always; and again I say, Rejoice.” Phil. 4:4. The man who doesn’t rejoice in God, even though tempted and afflicted, is not fighting the good fight of faith. He is fighting the poor fight of self-confidence and defeat.

All the promises of final happiness are to the overcomer. “To him that overcometh,” says Jesus, “will I give to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.” Rev. 3:21. “He that overcometh shall inherit all things,” says the Lord. Rev. 21:7. An overcomer is one who gains victories. The inheriting is not the overcoming; that is only the reward for overcoming. The overcoming is now; the victories to be gained are victories over the lusts of the flesh, the lusts of the eyes, and the pride of life,-victories over self and selfish indulgences. The man who fights and sees the foe give way, may rejoice; nobody can keep him from rejoicing, for joy comes spontaneously as the result of seeing the enemy give way. Some folks look with dread upon the thought of having to wage a continual warfare with self and worldly lusts. That is because they do not as yet know anything about the joy of victory; they have experienced only defeat. But it isn’t so doleful a thing to battle constantly, when there is continual victory. The old veteran of a hundred battles, who has been victorious in every fight, longs to be at the scene of conflict. Alexander’s soldiers, who under his command never knew defeat, were always impatient to be led into the fray. Each victory increased their strength, which was born only of courage, and correspondingly diminished that of the vanquished foe.

But when a person sees himself so ungodly as to find there no possible ground of hope for justification, it is just there that faith comes in; indeed, it is only there that faith can possibly come in.

But when every conceivable ground of hope of any dependence on anything in or about himself is gone and is acknowledged to be gone; when everything that can be seen is against any hope of justification, then it is that, throwing himself on the promise of God, upon the word only, hoping against hope, faith enters and by faith he finds justification full and free, all ungodly though he be.


Lessons On Faith, 1899

Over 12o years have passed and we just act as if all we have is the teachinsg of the Pharisees.


I've always said that the problem with legalists is that they don't take the law seriously enough.

Conversely, the problem with cheap grace advocates is that they don't take grace seriously enough.

Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. I cannot in faith trample the law of God (Who is one with Christ).

I've struggled against the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, and the pride of life for 50+ years.

I believe with all my heart in religious liberty for all. Period.

As for me, I'm not giving up now. I'm not going to allow Satan to taunt Christ on my account.
 
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Cshuffle777

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The greatest commandment covers them all. If you love YHWH; you'll keep his commandments; so it is written.

The two great commandments are a summary of the Decalogue. The greatest commandment covers the first part of the Decalogue; and the second greatest commandment covers the second part of the Decalogue.

The Decalogue is a summary of the 613. The 613 are a summary of what should be written on our hearts.
613 is an awfully big measurement for a summary, isn't it?
 
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BobRyan

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613 is an awfully big measurement for a summary, isn't it?

And the 1050 of the NT -- let's not forget them...

God seems to be "out of control" when viewed from those "How can we best limit God" arguments.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Hi Bob, Personally I don't mind them wanting to keep the 7th day Sabbath, as long as they also keep the commandments of Jesus in 1 John 3:23. Those are the important ones but take the baptism of the Holy Spirit to fulfill. Romans 14 tells us we are not to judge each other if one believes in keeping a day (in the flesh), and another treats everyday as if it is TODAY of Hebrews 4, having developed a very personal moment by moment relationship with Jesus. Unfortunately, even though I don't judge them, they believe I will be judged by God for breaking the 4th commandment of the LAW I'm not under. You see they don't believe I can be out from under the Law if I seem to be breaking the 4th. If you break one, you break them all. I love Adventists. They have a healthy fear of the Lord, as do I. And I can understand their reasoning, and that is easy to forgive their judgement of me. Their judgment is not out of arrogance, but out of love. I do the same in my fear for Calvinists and Antinomians being judged harshly by God! I want to see them saved. Those are who I mostly minister to. I minister to Adventists only because I really started to grow after leaving the denomination, and never joined another, but do like John Wesley.

Ever since I was first born again being filled with His Spirit to overflowing, 30 years AFTER starting to go to church every week, I realized that many in the whole Church are still being drawn by the Holy Spirit to come fully to Christ for salvation, but they do not have the laws written on their hearts, to keep them naturally out of a divine nature 2 Peter 1:2-4. They are doing everything by their old carnal nature like the person in Romans 7:14-23 who tries to keep the law with their knowledge of it, but their flesh is contrary to it. It is always a struggle, and church is more a social gathering than growing in Jesus.

According to God's Word (not mine) no one is born of God's Spirit by knowingly breaking his commandments and not obeying what God says *ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 5:29-31; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. This is the same as no one can claim to love God by breaking his commandments *1 JOHN 5:3; 1 JOHN 1:6; JOHN 14:15. Then we have ROMANS 14 which is not talking about what you think it is saying. ROMANS 14 is talking about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days and judging others in this regard. It is not a reference to God's 4th commandment. The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes according to LUKE 16:15. The divine nature does not practice sin (breaking God's law).

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord said: Love is expressed through obedience to the law. Love is not expressed through breaking it as shown in ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12; MATTHEW 22:36-40.
Your response here...
Not at all LGW. The law could be kept out of fear of reprisal. Jesus told us in Jn 15 what true love is: 9 ‘As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. There was nothing in the ten commandments about love. .

Bob, what is it that you say is not true? Maybe you did not read what you were quoting from JOHN 15 only supports what is being shared with you.

You claim that love is not expressed through obedeince to Gods' Law. Then how is it expressed Bob? In your view do we love God by...

1. Having other God's *EXODUS 20:3?
2. Making idols and bowing down to them and worshipping them *EXODUS 20:4-5?
3. Using God's name in vain *EXODUS 20:7?
4. Forgetting God's "seventh day" Sabbath and not keeping it Holy and working on it *EXODUS 20:8-11?

Or do not love our neighbour by...

5. Not honouring our parents *EXODUS 20:12?
6. Killing our neighbour*EXODUS 20:13?
7. Committing adultery with their spouses *EXODUS 20:14?
8. Stealing from them *EXODUS 20:15?
9. Lying to them *EXODUS 20:16?
10. Coveting what they have been given from God *EXODUS 20:17?

Let's look at all the scriptures provided here in detail...

You cannot separate God’s Law of love from the 10 commandments because love to God and man is expressed through them. There is no need for confusion here. God’s Word makes it very clear. You cannot separate LOVE from OBEDIENCE to God's LAW because God's 10 Commandments are the very expression of what LOVE is.

* If you LOVE your neighbore will you steal from them?
* If you LOVE your neighbore will you lie to them?
* If you LOVE your neighbore will you kill them?
etc etc...

*If you LOVE God will you have other God's?
*If you LOVE God will you make other God's and bow down to them?
*If you LOVE God will you use his name in vain?
*If you LOVE God you will remember to keep His Sabbath day Holy?

We can go through all the 10 Commandments which are our duty of LOVE to GOD and our fellow man.

Let's look at more scripture...

What does Jesus say when he talk about the commandments. Jesus is quoting from Old testament scriptures of DEUTERONOMY 6:5 and LEVITICUS 19:18.

MATTHEW 22:36-40
[36], Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38], This is the first and great commandment.
[39], And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
[40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Let's get clearer...


LUKE 10:25-28
[25], And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and made trial of him, saying, Teacher, WHAT SHALL I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?
[26], And he said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
[27], And he answering said, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, AND WITH ALL THY SOUL, AND WITH ALL THY STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL THY MIND; AND THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
[28], And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this DO, AND THOU SHALT LIVE.

Note when JESUS is talking about the two great commandments of love to God and Man the Scribes and Pharisees knew he is referring to the old testament scriptures of DEUTERONOMY 6:5 AND LEVITICUS 19:18 which sum up the law and the prohets (compare to ROMANS 13:8-10).

MATTHEW 19:16-21
[16], And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, WHAT GOOD THING SHALL I DO, THAT I MAY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE?
[17], And he said unto him, Why call thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: BUT IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
[18], He saith unto him, WHICH? JESUS SAID, THOU SHALT NOT MURDER, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, HONOR YOU MOTHER AND FATHER AND THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF
[20], The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

[21], Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. <Jesus showed him that he may have fulfilled His duty of love to his neighbor but not to God breaking commandment 1 and 2 loving riches more than God>

Note the two questions being asked in LUKE 10:25-28 and MATTHEW 19:16-21 are the same questions but different answers being given. One is answered with love to and your neighbor the other is given keep the 10 commandments. As love sums up God’s law…

Well Jesus makes it very clear that what he is talking about it is the 10 commandments of God's Law.

What about Paul? He wrote a lot of books in God's Word....

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW.
[9], For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, IT IS BREIFLY SUMMED UP IN THIS SAYING, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

Note: Compare now the words of JESUS with Paul in MATTHEW 22:36-40; LUKE 10:25-28; MATTHEW 19:16-21; ROMANS 13:8-10 you will see that LOVE is simply summing up obedience to Gods' 10 commandments.

What about James...

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF, ye do well:
[9], But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[10], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE SHALL BE GUILTY OF ALL.
[11], FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY SAID ALSO DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY AND YOU KILL, YOU HAVE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW.
[12], So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Well James makes it very clear what he is talking about when he talks about the Royal Law of love. He is talking about the 10 commandments agreeing with JESUS and PAUL. So Jesus and James and Paul all agree that when they are talking about God's 10 commandments which also include the 4th commandments they are talking about our duty of LOVE to God and man which are old testament references from DEUTERONOMY 6:5 and LEVITICUS 19:18. Seems like a lot of Love being shared to me here in the 10 commandments Bob don't you think? The 4th commandment is also a moral commandment and our duty of love to God.

Sorry Bob seems God's Word disagrees with you dear friend

Hope this is helpful
 
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