King of Israel

jgr · Jun 24, 2020

nolidad said:
Israel believers did not flee to the mountains in the pause between 66 and 70 AD they fled to Pella, right across the Jordan!

Matthew 24 Greek

Matthew 24:16

3735 [e]
orē
ὄρη ;
mountains
N-ANP

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
a mountain, hill
Probably from an obsolete oro (to rise or "rear"; perhaps akin to airo; compare ornis); a mountain (as lifting itself above the plain): -hill, mount(-ain).

Pella of the Decapolis
A mountain refuge for the first century church.

"The mountains of Gilead, near the northern edge of the region of Perea, is where Pella is located, making it a fitting destination for the call to "flee to the mountains.""

Zao is life · Jun 25, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
The word Moloch which you just quoted means king. Moloch=King

And yes it's about the day of the Lord.

Amos 5:18 Woe to you who long for the Day of the LORD! What will the Day of the LORD be for you? It will be darkness and not light.

I thnk it's melech in Hebrew. Probably the name of the god moloch is a linguistic
relative.

Zao is life · Jun 25, 2020

nolidad said:
Mostly true- but that is not the cause of the return of Jesus! Israel sometime soon will gain full control of Temple Mount and rebuild the temple. The Gog/Magog war will take place. Sometime between now and the mid point of teh tribulation period, Israel will reinstitute the sacrificial system (not that God accpets those sacrifices).

I never understand why people place the Gog-Magog rebellion 1,000 years before its time. The Jews do it because they don't believe the New Testament. The A-mills do it because they don't believe the mill is literal. Check in the images how Ezekiel and Revelation seem to be speaking of the same things:

BABerean2 · Jun 25, 2020

Fullness of the Gentiles said:
I never understand why people place the Gog-Magog rebellion 1,000 years before its time. The Jews do it because they don't believe the New Testament. The A-mills do it because they don't believe the mill is literal. Check in the images how Ezekiel and Revelation seem to speaking of the same things:

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The following link gives a more complete picture, and proves the Gog-Magog battle is the battle of Armageddon.

This author does an excellent job overall. However, he makes one error in his conclusion.

Gog of Magog - Here a little, there a little - Prophecy

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shilohsfoal · Jun 25, 2020

Fullness of the Gentiles said:
I thnk it's melech in Hebrew. Probably the name of the god moloch is a linguistic
relative.

It's talking about the Israelis worshiping the beast during the time of the end. Molock=the 8th king.
Amos says for that reason they will be cast out of the kingdom. Beyond Damascus.
Jesus talks about it in the gospel. He said they would be cast out. There would be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Zech 14 even talks about them being led away into captivity when the lord comes.

shilohsfoal · Jun 25, 2020

BABerean2 said:
The following link gives a more complete picture, and proves the Gog-Magog battle is the battle of Armageddon.

This author does an excellent job overall. However, he makes one error in his conclusion.

Gog of Magog - Here a little, there a little - Prophecy

.

Have you ever realized that none of the countries that dwell in the promised land Invade Israel when Gog does?

Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Turkey. Syria,Saudi, no philestines.

There's a reason for this. Its because they don't exist when Gog invades the promised land. The saints have already received the land promised to them 1000 years before Gog invades. Egypt does not Invade with Gog because after Armegeddon it will lay desolate for 40 years. After the Egyptians return,Egypt never fully recovers from that war and is to weak of a nation to attack anyone anymore.

Zao is life · Jun 25, 2020

BABerean2 said:
The following link gives a more complete picture, and proves the Gog-Magog battle is the battle of Armageddon.

This author does an excellent job overall. However, he makes one error in his conclusion.

Gog of Magog - Here a little, there a little - Prophecy

.

Thanks I'll look at it.

Zao is life · Jun 25, 2020

solid_core said:
It does not matter what states do. Jesus is still king over every authority.

"Therefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king."
J 18:37

"...he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come."
Eph 1:20

Ask of Me and I give nations--thy inheritance, And thy possession--the ends of earth. Ps 2:8

Jesus answered, `My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, my officers had struggled that I might not be delivered up to Jews; but now (Greek nun: "Of present time") my kingdom is not from hence.' John 18:36

all things Thou didst put in subjection under his feet,' for in the subjecting to him the all things, nothing did He leave to him unsubjected, and now (Greek nun: "Of present time") not yet do we see the all things subjected to him, Heb 2:8

And the seventh messenger did sound, and there came great voices in the heaven, saying, `The kingdoms of the world did become those of our Lord and of His Christ, and he shall reign to the ages of the ages!' Rev 11:15

Zao is life · Jun 25, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
It's talking about the Israelis worshiping the beast during the time of the end. Molock=the 8th king.
Amos says for that reason they will be cast out of the kingdom. Beyond Damascus.
Jesus talks about it in the gospel. He said they would be cast out. There would be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Zech 14 even talks about them being led away into captivity when the lord comes.

the context of Amos is (what was then) the coming destruction of the Northern Kingdom, "the house of Israel", though, shilohsfoal.

Some Biblical events do become types for events to take place at a much later time, but not all prophecy is like this. In a sense every time the descendants of Jacob turned to idolatry is a Biblical type of Jews turning to idolatry.

It is of course not only possible but very likely the Jews will appoint themselves another king who they will call their "messiah" and "the son of David":

I have come in the name of my Father, and ye do not receive me; if another may come in his own name, him ye will receive; John 5:43

Still, it's difficult for me to see how what was prophesied to the Northern kingdom is related - because this is what God said to the Northern kingdom (also collectively called "Ephraim" and "the house of Israel" in prophetic scripture):

As He also says in Hosea, "I will call those not My people, My people; and those not beloved, Beloved." And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them. "You are not My people; there they shall be called sons of the living God." Romans 9:25-26; Hosea 1:9-10).

The above prophecy in Amos was not prophesied to the Jews (the house of Judah, the Southern kingdom), so I don't see how it can refer to them when they appoint a "messiah". The house of Israel, the Northern kingdom or "Ephraim" became scattered among the nations and their seed intermarried with Gentiles to the extent where they are untraceable today - but because of the fact that Paul applied that prophecy (which was referring to them) to those who believe in Christ, I believe God sees us as the house of Israel, because they who believe in Christ are the seed of Abraham:

"And Joseph's father, Jacob, refused and said, I know, my son, I know. Manasseh also shall become a people, and he also shall be great, but truly his younger brother Ephraim shall be greater than he is, and his seed shall become melo goyim (the fullness of the Gentiles) a multitude of nations." (Gen 48:19)

shilohsfoal · Jun 25, 2020

Fullness of the Gentiles said:
the context of Amos is (what was then) the coming destruction of the Northern Kingdom, "the house of Israel", though, shilohsfoal.

Some Biblical events do become types for events to take place at a much later time, but not all prophecy is like this. In a sense every time the descendants of Jacob turned to idolatry is a Biblical type of Jews turning to idolatry.

It is of course not only possible but very likely the Jews will appoint themselves another king who they will call their "messiah" and "the son of David":

I have come in the name of my Father, and ye do not receive me; if another may come in his own name, him ye will receive; John 5:43

Still, it's difficult for me to see how what was prophesied to the Northern kingdom is related - because this is what God said to the Northern kingdom (also collectively called "Ephraim" and "the house of Israel" in prophetic scripture):

As He also says in Hosea, "I will call those not My people, My people; and those not beloved, Beloved." And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them. "You are not My people; there they shall be called sons of the living God." Romans 9:25-26; Hosea 1:9-10).

The above prophecy in Amos was not prophesied to the Jews (the house of Judah, the Southern kingdom), so I don't see how it can refer to them when they appoint a "messiah". The house of Israel, the Northern kingdom or "Ephraim" became scattered among the nations and their seed intermarried with Gentiles to the extent where they are untraceable today - but because of the fact that Paul applied that prophecy (which was referring to them) to those who believe in Christ, I believe God sees us as the house of Israel, because they who believe in Christ are the seed of Abraham:

"And Joseph's father, Jacob, refused and said, I know, my son, I know. Manasseh also shall become a people, and he also shall be great, but truly his younger brother Ephraim shall be greater than he is, and his seed shall become melo goyim (the fullness of the Gentiles) a multitude of nations." (Gen 48:19)

Amos 5:18 Woe to you who long for the Day of the LORD! What will the Day of the LORD be for you? It will be darkness and not light.
So when exactly are you saying the day of the Lord took place which Amos is talking about in Amos 5?

BABerean2 · Jun 25, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
The saints have already received the land promised to them 1000 years before Gog invades.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

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shilohsfoal · Jun 25, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

.

God does not give them that city until the 1000 years are finished.

Revelation 21:2 KJV: And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

That is the city God has prepared for them and that is when they receive it. God always keeps his promises.

Zao is life · Jun 25, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
Amos 5:18 Woe to you who long for the Day of the LORD! What will the Day of the LORD be for you? It will be darkness and not light.
So when exactly are you saying the day of the Lord took place which Amos is talking about in Amos 5?

"The Day of the LORD" is the same as saying "God's judgment day" and no doubt their false prophets were telling them that that day was going to bring judgment to their enemies and blessings to them. God was telling them that No, it was they who were going to be judged.

"The Day of the LORD" does not only have - and has not only had one fulfillment across time. There is a final Day of the LORD, which is the GWT. A thousand years before that will be the Day of Christ. Before that when Judah was judged in 70 AD was "the Day of the LORD". John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah:

Mal 4

5 Behold, I am sending you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the sons, and the heart of the sons to their fathers, that I not come and strike the earth with utter destruction.

Those were the very last words spoken by the very last prophet before Christ came - and there was a gap in time between that prophecy and the coming of Christ of a few hundred years (I don't know the exact figure without looking it up - others here will know the exact amount of years).

But Zechariah was told that his son John would come "in the spirit and power of Elijah" and John the Baptist denied he was Elijah when asked by the leaders of the Jews,

and the apostles saw Moses and Elijah with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration, so when they were coming down they asked Jesus why the prophets say Elijah must come first. In His reply, Jesus juxtaposed a future-tense fulfillment of the Elijah prophecy with a past-tense fulfillment:

And Jesus answering said to them, `Elijah doth indeed come first, and shall restore all things, and I say to you--Elijah did already come, and they did not know him, but did with him whatever they would, so also the Son of Man is about to suffer by them.'

Then understood the disciples that concerning John the Baptist he spake to them. Mat 17:11-13.

This is why many believe Elijah will be one of the two witnesses.

The thing to bear in mind is that "the Day of the LORD" comes whenever God brings judgment - but there is a final and ultimate "Day of the LORD".

BABerean2 · Jun 25, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
God does not give them that city until the 1000 years are finished.

Revelation 21:2 KJV: And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

That is the city God has prepared for them and that is when they receive it. God always keeps his promises.

Peter gives the timing below on the day of the Lord, when He comes as a thief.
He does not come as a thief 1,000 years after His Second Coming.

This is confirmed by the fire in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and the fire in the parable of the wheat and tares from Matthew 13, and the fire in Matthew 25:31-46.

How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?

The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others, is found in Revelation 11:18. This verse proves the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order. More proof is found in Revelation 16:15-16, when He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and later in chapter 16 we find the greatest earthquake in history, which destroys the mountains.

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

.

shilohsfoal · Jun 25, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Peter gives the timing below on the day of the Lord, when He comes as a thief.
He does not come as a thief 1,000 years after His Second Coming.

This is confirmed by the fire in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and the fire in the parable of the wheat and tares from Matthew 13, and the fire in Matthew 25:31-46.

How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?

The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others, is found in Revelation 11:18. This verse proves the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order. More proof is found in Revelation 16:15-16, when He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and later in chapter 16 we find the greatest earthquake in history, which destroys the mountains.

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

.

We are not talking about the day of the Lord.
We are talking about when new Jerusalem comes down from heaven from God for those who it is prepared for.

Revelation 21:2 I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

New Jerusalem does not come down out of heaven for those its is prepared for till 1000 years after the first resurrection.

shilohsfoal · Jun 25, 2020

Fullness of the Gentiles said:
"The Day of the LORD" is the same as saying "God's judgment day" and no doubt their false prophets were telling them that that day was going to bring judgment to their enemies and blessings to them. God was telling them that No, it was they who were going to be judged.

"The Day of the LORD" does not only have - and has not only had one fulfillment across time. There is a final Day of the LORD, which is the GWT. A thousand years before that will be the Day of Christ. Before that when Judah was judged in 70 AD was "the Day of the LORD". John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah:

Mal 4

5 Behold, I am sending you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the sons, and the heart of the sons to their fathers, that I not come and strike the earth with utter destruction.

Those were the very last words spoken by the very last prophet before Christ came - and there was a gap in time between that prophecy and the coming of Christ of a few hundred years (I don't know the exact figure without looking it up - others here will know the exact amount of years).

But Zechariah was told that his son John would come "in the spirit and power of Elijah" and John the Baptist denied he was Elijah when asked by the leaders of the Jews,

and the apostles saw Moses and Elijah with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration, so when they were coming down they asked Jesus why the prophets say Elijah must come first. In His reply, Jesus juxtaposed a future-tense fulfillment of the Elijah prophecy with a past-tense fulfillment:

And Jesus answering said to them, `Elijah doth indeed come first, and shall restore all things, and I say to you--Elijah did already come, and they did not know him, but did with him whatever they would, so also the Son of Man is about to suffer by them.'

Then understood the disciples that concerning John the Baptist he spake to them. Mat 17:11-13.

This is why many believe Elijah will be one of the two witnesses.

The thing to bear in mind is that "the Day of the LORD" comes whenever God brings judgment - but there is a final and ultimate "Day of the LORD".

So why wouldn't God tell his prophets there would be many days of the Lord?
Anytime a prophet speaks of the Day of the Lord, it is singular. Not plural.

Also notice, the final convict in which many nations are judged is never called the day of the Lord.
All of those nations with Gog who are destroyed are not destroyed on the Day of the Lord?????

BABerean2 · Jun 25, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
New Jerusalem does not come down out of heaven for those its is prepared for till 1000 years after the first resurrection.

Why are you ignoring the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18, which proves the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order?

.

shilohsfoal · Jun 25, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Why are you ignoring the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18, which proves the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order?

.

I'm not ignoring the judgment of the dead.
There are two resurrections in Revelation.
The first is of the saints who do not worship the beast or its image and are beheaded for thier witness of Christ.
The rest of the dead do not live again till 1000 years later.
That is keeping revelation in chronological order.
Revelation plainly shows new jerusalem which is prepared for those dwelling on the earth, coming down out of heaven after the last resurrection.

New Jerusalem which is prepared for those it is coming down from heaven to, does not come down from heaven before the first resurrection. It doesn't come down from heaven before the last resurrection.
It comes down from heaven after the last resurrection.

solid_core · Jun 25, 2020

Fullness of the Gentiles said:
Ask of Me and I give nations--thy inheritance, And thy possession--the ends of earth. Ps 2:8

Jesus answered, `My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, my officers had struggled that I might not be delivered up to Jews; but now (Greek nun: "Of present time") my kingdom is not from hence.' John 18:36

all things Thou didst put in subjection under his feet,' for in the subjecting to him the all things, nothing did He leave to him unsubjected, and now (Greek nun: "Of present time") not yet do we see the all things subjected to him, Heb 2:8

And the seventh messenger did sound, and there came great voices in the heaven, saying, `The kingdoms of the world did become those of our Lord and of His Christ, and he shall reign to the ages of the ages!' Rev 11:15

1. the Greek νῦν has two meanings. One is of time, another is just a logical connection. So you have 50:50 chance that you got it right.

2. Even if you got it right and Jesus really meant that his kingdom was not of this world before his death, we know that after his resurrection, he was given the kingdom:

"...he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come."
Eph 1:20

BABerean2 · Jun 25, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
I'm not ignoring the judgment of the dead.
There are two resurrections in Revelation.
The first is of the saints who do not worship the beast or its image and are beheaded for thier witness of Christ.
The rest of the dead do not live again till 1000 years later.
That is keeping revelation in chronological order.

You are ignoring the text found below, and adding your words instead of what the Bible says below.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Ignoring the text in an effort to make the book fit a chronological order produces the confusion often seen on this forum.

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