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What do you think of Luke 16:19-31.And Isaiah 14:9-11.And Deuteronomy 32:22.And Psalms 86:13? Sorry if this in the wrong place.
I think it is amusing that you selected the gospel according to the guy who uses a scalpel and then only old testament references.What do you think of Luke 16:19-31.And Isaiah 14:9-11.And Deuteronomy 32:22.And Psalms 86:13? Sorry if this in the wrong place.
…..According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, quoted below, among the יהודים/Yehudim/ιουδαιων/Youdaion/Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom, translated hades and gehenna in the LXX and NT.What do you think of Luke 16:19-31.And Isaiah 14:9-11.And Deuteronomy 32:22.And Psalms 86:13? Sorry if this in the wrong place.
They have little bearing on the real deal. Sheol was a place where the dead knew nothing but Jesus taught they definitely knew something: He is Lord.What do you think of Luke 16:19-31.And Isaiah 14:9-11.And Deuteronomy 32:22.And Psalms 86:13? Sorry if this in the wrong place.
What do you think of Luke 16:19-31.And Isaiah 14:9-11.And Deuteronomy 32:22.And Psalms 86:13? Sorry if this in the wrong place.
All of the ECF who quoted/referred to Lazarus and the rich man considered it factual.---SE---
Luke 16 is a parable. In it Jesus alludes to Deut 32. The passage from Isaiah is figurative language. The passage from the Psalms refers to the grave, just as Hades does in the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 16.What do you think of Luke 16:19-31.And Isaiah 14:9-11.And Deuteronomy 32:22.And Psalms 86:13? Sorry if this in the wrong place.
Hell is also called the second "death"People tend to confuse the teaching of man with the teaching of God. What does the Bible say?
◄ Romans 6:23 ► NIV For the wages of sin is death (Not eternal life in Hell that man teaches.)
but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Eternal life is not the gift of Satan.
◄ Ezekiel 18:20 ► KJV The soul that sinneth, it shall die...... Not burn in Hell forever as man teaches.
So called Christian Hell is based on Dante's Inferno, not the Bible
https://www.enotes.com/topics/dantes-inferno
Nonsense.People tend to confuse the teaching of man with the teaching of God. What does the Bible say?
◄ Romans 6:23 ► NIV For the wages of sin is death (Not eternal life in Hell that man teaches.)
but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Eternal life is not the gift of Satan.
◄ Ezekiel 18:20 ► KJV The soul that sinneth, it shall die...... Not burn in Hell forever as man teaches.
So called Christian Hell is based on Dante's Inferno, not the Bible
https://www.enotes.com/topics/dantes-inferno
I really don't care what three irrefutable Jewish sources say. I am not Jewish. Though it may be of interest, my simple way of looking at things is, "What does the Bible say?"Nonsense.
…..According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, quoted below, among the יהודים/Yehudim/ιουδαιων/Youdaion/Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom, translated hades and gehenna in the 225 BC LXX and the NT.
…..There were different factions within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were differing beliefs does not rebut, refute, change or disprove anything in this post.
Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna[Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any supposed bias of modern Christian translators. DA]
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[“Soon” in this verse would be about 700 BC +/-]
(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).When Jesus taught e.g.,
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
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Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
http://www.jevzajcg.me/enciklopedia/Encyclopaedia Judaica, v. 07 (Fey-Gor).pdf
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Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]:
"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.
Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.
• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell [Γέεννα/gehenna] where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, 3X Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.”
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that often it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent.
When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,
“Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If that Jewish teaching was wrong, why didn’t Jesus tell them there was no hell, no eternal punishment etc? Why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only encourage and reinforce their beliefs?
Hell is also called the second "death"
this is what the bible says.
what does the bible say about death?
So your read a couple of lines and think you know what I was talking about. You evidently did not see all the scripture I quoted.I really don't care what three irrefutable Jewish sources say. I am not Jewish. Though it may be of interest, my simple way of looking at things is, "What does the Bible say?"
This Bible speaks of finality of of the second death. Man does not have an immortal soul. How can he burn forever?
Yes the second death is eternal. It is final. Once we suffer the second death there in no more.
Which bodies? most bodies would have decomposed by then.The first death is likened to sleep, most of us will suffer the first death the way Lazarus did. I say most.
◄ 1 Corinthians 15 ► NIV
51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep (die), but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
The second death is the final destruction of our bodies after the resurrection and the judgement.
So your read a couple of lines and think you know what I was talking about. You evidently did not see all the scripture I quoted.
I'm not interested in the unsupported opinions of people here who don't/can/t back up what they say from scripture.
And my Bible has 32,172 verses not just 2 or 3.
Which bodies? most bodies would have decomposed by then.
If you are talking about annihilationism I don't subscribe to that theology.
I find that passage in 1 Cor 15 to be a puzzle in a way, it seems to imply that anyone who actually dies the regular way and is not transfigured wasn't saved or something.
That is, if sleep truly means to kick the bucket. So to speak.
So your wording was after the bodies were resurrected, they would be destroyed.If God can create Adam from the dust of the Earth, then He can just as easily recover our body regardless of how they have decomposed.
What does its say? "the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."