Resurrection, First Resurrection and New Birth

sovereigngrace

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It's because of your spiritual birth that you never die or become separated from Christ when you die physically. It has nothing to do with "resurrection" because you can't be resurrected if you're not dead.

If we're not alive spiritually when we die a physical death then we will not go to be with the Lord - but those who are alive spiritually were born from above by the Spirit of God:

John 3:6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
John 3:8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'

John 3:5 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;

Since the day of your spiritual birthday, when you were born from above by the Spirit of God, the Spirit of God lives in your spirit which lives in your soul which lives in your body. This is why you will never die even though we die physically. Nothing to do with "resurrection". You can't be resurrected if you're not dead.

This is all theological double-speak that actually undermines the repeated teaching of multiple NT passages (Luke 2:34, John 8:12, Romans 4:17, Romans 6:3-6, 2 Corinthians 1:8-10, Ephesians 2:1-6, Ephesians 5:14, Colossians 2:10-14, Colossians 3:1-4, I John 3:14) teaching that we have experienced spiritual resurrection from spiritual death through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
 
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nolidad

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Saying you refuse to answer an apt and simple question re Rev 20, I will try another:

What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there are two distinct judgment days (the first for the righteous, the second for the wicked) separated by a literal 1000 years+?

Well the thousand years is not to time the two judgment/ resurrections but the two do take place about 1,000 years apart. The first resurrection Before Jesus restores the earth after He returns and welcomes the sheep of Matt. 25 into teh Kingdom!

Revelation 20:5-6 King James Version (KJV)
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Verse says speaks of a literal 1,000 years as well!
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

We know covenanta;lists and allegorists like to go all Kabbalistic with this and make it all spiritual stuff with no physical reality, but its real! Time will show your need to repent of changing Gods Word!
 
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sovereigngrace

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Well the thousand years is not to time the two judgment/ resurrections but the two do take place about 1,000 years apart. The first resurrection Before Jesus restores the earth after He returns and welcomes the sheep of Matt. 25 into teh Kingdom!

Revelation 20:5-6 King James Version (KJV)
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Verse says speaks of a literal 1,000 years as well!
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

We know covenanta;lists and allegorists like to go all Kabbalistic with this and make it all spiritual stuff with no physical reality, but its real! Time will show your need to repent of changing Gods Word!

This is classic premillennial hermeneutics. You interpret Revelation 20 by your opinion of Revelation 20. This proves Premil has no other Scripture. This type of private interpretation is warned against in Scripture. You are trying to understand the most debated chapter in Scripture, which is located in the most figurative setting in Scripture, by your hyper-literal opinion of Revelation 20. That does not make sense. It reinforces what Amils and Postmils have known for years: that Premil is an extra-biblical theory that conflicts with numerous clear and repeated climactic Scripture.

Thanks for at least being honest!
 
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nolidad

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This is classic premillennial hermeneutics. You interpret Revelation 20 by your opinion of Revelation 20. This proves Premil has no other Scripture. This type of private interpretation is warned against in Scripture. You are trying to understand the most debated chapter in Scripture, which is located in the most figurative setting in Scripture, by your hyper-literal opinion of Revelation 20. That does not make sense. It reinforces what Premils have known for years: that Premil is an extra-biblical theory that conflicts with numerous clear and repeated climactic Scripture.

Thanks for at least being honest!

All I can see is Blah blah blah you're stupid, I am not!

REv. 20 is not the most debated chapter in Scripture! And REvelation 20 is ot the most figurative setting in Scripture!

And it is not a "hyper-literal" opinion. What is that anyway??? It is simply seeing 1,000 years and calling it 1,000 years!

Instead of haranguing me and subtly throwing your ad-hominems my way- why don't you defend that 1,000 years is not a literal time frame! Which also means that is Jesus physical return to earth and setting up a kingdom not literal either?

Are you one of those who believes that we are the kngdom of God and we must win the world one way or theother?
 
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sovereigngrace

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All I can see is Blah blah blah you're stupid, I am not!

REv. 20 is not the most debated chapter in Scripture! And REvelation 20 is ot the most figurative setting in Scripture!

And it is not a "hyper-literal" opinion. What is that anyway??? It is simply seeing 1,000 years and calling it 1,000 years!

Instead of haranguing me and subtly throwing your ad-hominems my way- why don't you defend that 1,000 years is not a literal time frame! Which also means that is Jesus physical return to earth and setting up a kingdom not literal either?

Are you one of those who believes that we are the kngdom of God and we must win the world one way or theother?

I believe, this lack of corroboration (supporting Scripture with Scripture) that you concede, is at the core of why many reject the Premil theory. This is where your school of thought falls down. Corroboration is fundamental to understanding any truth in Scripture. Without it you are left with private interpretation.

The Reformers introduced a very solid interpretative system that was based on the crucial principle of supporting Scripture with Scripture. They used this to dismantle Roman Catholic heresy. They required corroborative evidence to support their opinion of any given text. This was to prevent error and to aid our understanding of truth.

Corroboration is said to be “evidence that tends to support a proposition that is already supported by some initial evidence, therefore confirming the proposition.”

Sound theologians have employed this important principle to avoid speculative interpretation and the damage of forcing a meaning on a text that contradicts repeated Scripture.

Anyone that is a student of this Book (and theology) will know the importance of this great demand. Anyone that has ever been involved in law will also know how essential it is in proving a fact.

Most Christians are aware of the crucial mandate of 2 Peter 1:20: “no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.”
 
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Zao is life

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This is all theological double-speak that actually undermines the repeated teaching of multiple NT passages (Luke 2:34, John 8:12, Romans 4:17, Romans 6:3-6, 2 Corinthians 1:8-10, Ephesians 2:1-6, Ephesians 5:14, Colossians 2:10-14, Colossians 3:1-4, I John 3:14) teaching that we have experienced spiritual resurrection from spiritual death through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
It only undermines your theological double-speak. The scriptures you quote above prove what I said.

Did you die for the sins of the world and rise again from the dead?

Have you ever heard that Christ rose again bodily?

How can you be resurrected "spiritually" when you were never dead spiritually because you never lived spiritually until you were born from above by the Spirit?

How can you have died with Christ and how can you have been raised with Him unless you were born from above by His Spirit?

Did you die spiritually after you were born spiritually in order that you could be "spiritually" resurrected?

Have you ever considered that by virtue of having been born from above by the Spirit of Christ who is the Son of Man and the last Adam who represents all mankind, it puts those who believe in Him and have been born from above, IN HIM and He IN THEM and therefore they died with Him and were raised again with Him, and this fact is the guarantee that they will be resurrected - which always and only refers to a bodily resurrection?
 
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shilohsfoal

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The martyred souls John sees in heaven. To have part in the first resurrection is to have part in the resurrection of Christ the moment we believe. We have been born again of the Spirit, and now have spiritual life where before new birth, we were dead in trespasses and sins. So now we are indwelt with eternal spiritual life through the Spirit in us, our spirit will never die.
Was there a reason you avoided that question?

John is not seeing all the inhabitants that will be in heaven, he sees only those who died for their faith, yet they are ALIVE spiritually. When they physically died, their spirit, through the Spirit in them left their body and went as spiritual body to the Kingdom of Heaven. (see 1Co 15) That is not when their living and reigning with Christ began. That began when they were born again in life. So what John sees and is showing us is that whether in life or death it matters not for believers, because in Him we have eternal life by the resurrection of Christ and power of His Spirit we will never die.

Btw - I don't know what translation you're using, but the translators have added "they came alive". The correct translation is "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years". The souls did not need to come alive, because they are living spirits (souls) who never died, because in life they believed Christ for eternal life.

Revelation 20:4 KJV: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So you say you were testifying of Christ and was beheaded before you believed in him?

How was you testifying of Christ and was beheaded before you believed in him?

You also never answerd my first question.
How much time was it from the time you was beheaded for preaching about Jesus to the time you was resurrected.?
 
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sovereigngrace

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It only undermines your theological double-speak. The scriptures you quote above prove what I said.

Did you die for the sins of the world and rise again from the dead?

Have you ever heard that Christ rose again bodily?

How can you be resurrected "spiritually" when you were never dead spiritually because you never lived spiritually until you were born from above by the Spirit?

How can you have died with Christ and how can you have been raised with Him unless you were born from above by His Spirit?

Did you die spiritually after you were born spiritually in order that you could be "spiritually" resurrected?

Have you ever considered that by virtue of having been born from above by the Spirit of Christ who is the Son of Man and the last Adam who represents all mankind, it puts those who believe in Him and have been born from above, IN HIM and He IN THEM and therefore they died with Him and were raised again with Him, and this fact is the guarantee that they will be resurrected - which always and only refers to a bodily resurrection?

We have our part or portion in His "first resurrection" through salvation. That gives us victory over eternal punishment - "the second death." In salvation we identify with Christ in His life, death and resurrection. We come into spiritual union with Him, and become joint-heirs to His eternal inheritance.

It is a scriptural fact, for someone to move from death and the grave (in the natural or the spiritual) to life (of either type) requires of necessity resurrection. By our very union with Christ and the victory He has already wrought for us over death we enter into the triumph of both spiritual and physical resurrection. Upon conversion we are immediately raised from spiritual death by way of spiritual resurrection. We are born again (or born from above) by being raised from the grave of sin and debauchery. It is the resurrection of the spirit that causes the new birth. When resurrected our spirits are brought from death to life, this causes a new spiritually birth within our being.

When viewing this subject we must always remember, we are body, soul and spirit. The dead area within the human being prior to conversion is the spirit. The body is alive and the soul (the old man) is alive but the spiritual part of him – his spirit – is dead. It is therefore the dead spirit that is (1) quickened, and (2) resurrected from its death that begets life and therefore a new nature or a living spiritual man. The work of the Holy Spirit in sanctification is then a process of bringing body and soul into subjection of that live spirit.
 
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shilohsfoal

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The martyred souls John sees in heaven. To have part in the first resurrection is to have part in the resurrection of Christ the moment we believe. We have been born again of the Spirit, and now have spiritual life where before new birth, we were dead in trespasses and sins. So now we are indwelt with eternal spiritual life through the Spirit in us, our spirit will never die.

John is not seeing all the inhabitants that will be in heaven, he sees only those who died for their faith, yet they are ALIVE spiritually. When they physically died, their spirit, through the Spirit in them left their body and went as spiritual body to the Kingdom of Heaven. (see 1Co 15) That is not when their living and reigning with Christ began. That began when they were born again in life. So what John sees and is showing us is that whether in life or death it matters not for believers, because in Him we have eternal life by the resurrection of Christ and power of His Spirit we will never die.

Btw - I don't know what translation you're using, but the translators have added "they came alive". The correct translation is "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years". The souls did not need to come alive, because they are living spirits (souls) who never died, because in life they believed Christ for eternal life.
Revelation 20:4 KJV: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

OK wait I think I'm understanding you now. You testify that you were first resurrected, then you was beheaded?

Who beheaded you?
 
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sovereigngrace

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That is speaking about dead believers now in heaven. But all believers have partook in His glorious first resurrection. When they die, they no longer go to Hades, they go immediately into the Lord's presence.

Because Premillennialism, by its very nature, requires a hyper-literal approach to Revelation 20, they do not have the luxury of approaching that chapter objectively. They cannot take context into consideration. They cannot take genre into consideration. They cannot take apocalyptic language into consideration. They cannot take figurative language into consideration. They cannot let the rest of Scripture interprets that chapter, because to do so would negate its very existence. They must force a hyper-literal interpretation on a highly-figurative passage. The result of their faulty hermeneutics is that they end up inventing a brand new age in between "this age" and "the age to come" that is unknown to the rest of Scripture. The reality is it does not exist. It is imaginary. It is fanciful.

I have showed you clear, compelling and consistent Scripture above that shows a figurative resurrection of God's people pertaining to their spiritual translation from death unto life. This is an explicit teaching for those who do not have a theological agenda. Premillennialist have to deny the obvious in order for their doctrine to survive.

This spiritual resurrection occurs to all those who identify with Christ in His first resurrection when He conquered sin, death, Hades and Satan. His sinless life, His atoning death and His glorious resurrection secured the full and eternal freedom of all His elect. This union with Christ raises us from the grave of our sin and allows us to be currently seated in heavenly places in Christ. Through this majesty work, Christ emptied Hades and led captivity captive taking them to heaven to reign with Him until the physical resurrection at His coming.
 
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rwb

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I wasn't beheaded, and since I fear suffering and pain, I hope I won't be. But for the faithful martyrs of Rev 20, with STRONG faith they died for Christ. But physical death only took them from this life to the Kingdom of Heaven a spiritual body (living soul). That's why John sees alive those who physically died for Christ. (How amazing and wonderful is that!!! This is affirmation that bodily death cannot keep us from Christ. Where He is we will be also.) They did not need to be made spiritually alive again, because the spirit in believers never die. We have eternal life in Christ (spiritually) when we believe. The first resurrection is the resurrection of Christ. It is His resurrection that these martyred souls (and all believers) have part in, not a physical resurrection of the body. The bodies of believers will be resurrected and changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible when Christ comes again on the last day.

I hope this helps clear up the confusion.
 
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shilohsfoal

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I wasn't beheaded, and since I fear suffering and pain, I hope I won't be. But for the faithful martyrs of Rev 20, with STRONG faith they died for Christ. But physical death only took them from this life to the Kingdom of Heaven a spiritual body (living soul). That's why John sees alive those who physically died for Christ. (How amazing and wonderful is that!!! This is affirmation that bodily death cannot keep us from Christ. Where He is we will be also.) They did not need to be made spiritually alive again, because the spirit in believers never die. We have eternal life in Christ (spiritually) when we believe. The first resurrection is the resurrection of Christ. It is His resurrection that these martyred souls (and all believers) have part in, not a physical resurrection of the body. The bodies of believers will be resurrected and changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible when Christ comes again on the last day.

I hope this helps clear up the confusion.

Revelation 20:4 KJV: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So this isn't about you?
 
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rwb

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That is speaking about dead believers now in heaven. But all believers have partook in His glorious first resurrection. When they die, they no longer go to Hades, they go immediately into the Lord's presence.

Because Premillennialism, by its very nature, requires a hyper-literal approach to Revelation 20, they do not have the luxury of approaching that chapter objectively. They cannot take context into consideration. They cannot take genre into consideration. They cannot take apocalyptic language into consideration. They cannot take figurative language into consideration. They cannot let the rest of Scripture interprets that chapter, because to do so would negate its very existence. They must force a hyper-literal interpretation on a highly-figurative passage. The result of their faulty hermeneutics is that they end up inventing a brand new age in between "this age" and "the age to come" that is unknown to the rest of Scripture. The reality is it does not exist. It is imaginary. It is fanciful.

I have showed you clear, compelling and consistent Scripture above that shows a figurative resurrection of God's people pertaining to their spiritual translation from death unto life. This is an explicit teaching for those who do not have a theological agenda. Premillennialist have to deny the obvious in order for their doctrine to survive.

This spiritual resurrection occurs to all those who identify with Christ in His first resurrection when He conquered sin, death, Hades and Satan. His sinless life, His atoning death and His glorious resurrection secured the full and eternal freedom of all His elect. This union with Christ raises us from the grave of our sin and allows us to be currently seated in heavenly places in Christ. Through this majesty work, Christ emptied Hades and led captivity captive taking them to heaven to reign with Him until the physical resurrection at His coming.

I think this is the most troubling part of Premill for me. The must deny eternal life to hold to their doctrine. They cannot accept that bodily death simply means our living spirit, through His Spirit in us, goes to be with the Lord in Heaven when we breath our last on this earth. That is an outright denial of every instance where Christ promises the one who believes in Him will never die.
 
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rwb

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I will one day be among them! I can say that with total confidence, because I know in whom I have believed, and that He will finish that which He began in me. I may not be among the faithful martyrs (who knows, things are getting a bit unsettling in this world), but I will be among the numbers in heaven when I breath my last in this life. That is the greatest, and most comforting promise, what fear have I or any believer of death of my body? The death of our body will not be the end for believers, rather it is the beginning of another age of eternity! As I said, I fear pain and suffering, but I long to be with the Lord in heaven one day when I have breathed my last on this earth!
 
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shilohsfoal

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I will one day be among them! I can say that with total confidence, because I know in whom I have believed, and that He will finish that which He began in me. I may not be among the faithful martyrs (who knows, things are getting a bit unsettling in this world), but I will be among the numbers in heaven when I breath my last in this life. That is the greatest, and most comforting promise, what fear have I or any believer of death of my body? The death of our body will not be the end for believers, rather it is the beginning of another age of eternity! As I said, I fear pain and suffering, but I long to be with the Lord in heaven one day when I have breathed my last on this earth!

There are those who will die in christ after the beast begins marking his kingdom. They will be beheaded for thier witness of Jesus and they do not worship the beast or his image.
This is them here.

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, "Blessed are the dead--those who die in the Lord from this moment on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them."

So you don't believe these people will be resurrected when Christ comes?You don't believe the dead in Christ will rise when Christ comes?
 
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rwb

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There are those who will die in christ after the beast begins marking his kingdom. They will be beheaded for thier witness of Jesus and they do not worship the beast or his image.
This is them here.

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, "Blessed are the dead--those who die in the Lord from this moment on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them."

So you don't believe these people will be resurrected when Christ comes?You don't believe the dead in Christ will rise when Christ comes?

What do you mean "after the beast begins marking his kingdom"? There are always only two types of people in this age. Those who are of Christ and have the seal of the living God, and those who are of their father the devil, and receive his mark. Neither of these marks are physical, but spiritual.

When we die for our faith we are dying in the Lord. It is a privilege to die for our faith. We all die, but those who die for their faith are blessed to be martyrs for the Kingdom. To suffer death for our faith is an honor. And our death, as I've already said is not the end for believers, but the beginning of the next age, the age of eternity. God does not forget our works, and labor of love for Him, He remembers our deeds for His Kingdom. In death we spiritually rise to Christ in heaven, then on the last day we physically rise when Christ comes again on the last day.
 
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shilohsfoal

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What do you mean "after the beast begins marking his kingdom"? There are always only two types of people in this age. Those who are of Christ and have the seal of the living God, and those who are of their father the devil, and receive his mark. Neither of these marks are physical, but spiritual.

When we die for our faith we are dying in the Lord. It is a privilege to die for our faith. We all die, but those who die for their faith are blessed to be martyrs for the Kingdom. To suffer death for our faith is an honor. And our death, as I've already said is not the end for believers, but the beginning of the next age, the age of eternity. God does not forget our works, and labor of love for Him, He remembers our deeds for His Kingdom. In death we spiritually rise to Christ in heaven, then on the last day we physically rise when Christ comes again on the last day.


Yes I said, after the beast begins to mark his kingdom. Pay attention to the verse. It says blessed are those who die in the Lord from this moment on.

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, "Blessed are the dead--those who die in the Lord from this moment on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them."

It means from a specific point in time, forward.
You don't believe he will bless those who die in Christ from that specific point in time on like the verse says?
You don't believe they will be rewarded for thier great deeds?
 
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rwb

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Yes I said, after the beast begins to mark his kingdom. Pay attention to the verse. It says blessed are those who die in the Lord from this moment on.

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, "Blessed are the dead--those who die in the Lord from this moment on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them."

It means from a specific point in time, forward.
You don't believe he will bless those who die in Christ from that specific point in time on like the verse says?
You don't believe they will be rewarded for thier great deeds?

From the beginning of the New Covenant Gospel age. Blessed are those who die for the Lord, because the Lord had died for them. From this moment on, is from the resurrection of Christ until the end of this age.

Rev 14 begins with a vision of the 144,000 remnant of Old Covenant faithful saints. I believe they are also depicted as souls under the altar in Rev 6, and the 144,000 of all the tribes of the children of Israel in Rev 7. Like other visions in Revelation the vision begins with the ending of the Old Covenant faithful then vs 6 goes forward to the everlasting gospel being preached unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. After giving us a picture of the fall of Babylon, we jump down to vs 13 where we get a picture of the harvesting of the earth as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the nations of the earth. So the time period of Rev 14 covers the whole New Covenant Gospel era, beginning with a picture of the Old Covenant firstfruits unto God and the Lamb in heaven and before the throne, then the judgment the Gospel brings as it is preached in the power of the Spirit unto all the earth.

Babylon is a depiction of every great city upon the earth. In this vision of Rev 14 I believe she is symbolizing the fall of Jerusalem and the temple. The next image is that of the mark of the beast, everyone refusing Christ and His Gospel, remaining in darkness and unbelief have the mark of the beast in his forehead or hand. The forehead symbolizing the thoughts of fallen man, and the hand symbolizing the works of fallen man. They are the ones who receive the wrath of God, and will be tormented. And the everlasting gospel is preached unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. Why are they tormented? Because they heard the Gospel and remained in unbelief. The Gospel was not mixed with faith for them so they will suffer the second death and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb.

The vision ends vs 13-20 with the harvest of the earth, as the Gospel is preached unto all nations. The Gospel will either bring eternal life or everlasting damnation. So John's final vision in chapter 14 shows us the harvest with the reapers (angels) separating the tares from the wheat.

John 3:18 (KJV) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
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Zao is life

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We have our part or portion in His "first resurrection" through salvation. That gives us victory over eternal punishment - "the second death."

In salvation we identify with Christ in His life, death and resurrection. We come into spiritual union with Him, and become joint-heirs to His eternal inheritance.
Yes. Therefore we are raised with Him bodily when He returns for His elect, just as Paul said:

1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is still the first resurrection because it takes place by virtue of His resurrection and the fact that those who died in Christ and are "asleep" in Christ will rise first, and those who are alive in Christ will be changed. The second death will have no power over us or them. You can't make the bodily resurrection to occur when Christ returns a "second" resurrection.

So you've just admitted that the bodily resurrection of the saints which will occur when Christ returns is still the first resurrection, which bodily resurrection results in the saints reigning with Christ a thousand years - but it cannot be a "spiritual" thousand years since the saints will have now been bodily resurrected in what is still the first resurrection.

It is a scriptural fact, for someone to move from death and the grave (in the natural or the spiritual) to life (of either type) requires of necessity resurrection.
It's not a scriptural fact at all, because it's not a "spiritual resurrection" that takes place it's a spiritual birth that takes place - and this is what JESUS said, it's not what I say. And if whatever we say is not what Jesus said, our words do not count:

According to your theory and the church theology which produced it, JESUS said the following:

`Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and resurrected spiritually because he is dead spiritually, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;

that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been resurrected from spiritual death is spirit.
`Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be resurrected spiritually

But that is NOT what Jesus said, no matter how much your theology changes His words and the meaning of His words. What He said was,

John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born (gennao) of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;
that which hath been born (gennao) of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born (gennao) of the Spirit is spirit.
`Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born (gennao) from above;

Strongs: G1080
γεννάω gennaō ghen-nah'-o
From a variation of G1085; to procreate (properly of the father but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate: - bear beget be born bring forth conceive be delivered of gender make spring.


It is only figuratively to regenerate. You were only figuratively "regenerated" - but as JESUS stated, your spirit was only born when the Spirit of Christ breathed life into you (the way He had done with Adam when Adam became a living soul). Due to the fall of Adam, death was brought to all men, and you were born physically alive with a soul, but you had no spirit because the spirit of Adam was dead. God had to breathe life into you so that you could become a living soul:

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 1 Cor 15:45


It is not a regeneration of the old creation - it is a NEW creation:

for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation; Gal 6:15

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor 5:17


Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 1Cor 15:46-47

The word "quickened" and the word "regenerated" are not speaking of the same thing. The former relates to spiritual birth when God breathes life into you and you once again become a living soul (like Adam was, before the fall, before he died spiritually). The latter relates to resurrection from death - which in all New Testament verses mentioning it, is always bodily resurrection by virtue of the fact that you are alive spiritually because God breathed the Spirit of Christ into you when you heard the gospel, believed, repented, and turned and placed your faith in Christ.

It's also not every son of Adam who was quickened when you were quickened. It was every son of Adam who died spiritually when Adam died, and the last Adam quickens whomever believes in Him.
ERROR IN RED:

By our very union with Christ and the victory He has already wrought for us over death we enter into the triumph of both spiritual and physical resurrection.
Truth of the above statement IN BLUE:
By our very union with Christ and the victory He has already wrought for us over death we enter into the triumph of
both spiritual and spiritual birth from above and physical resurrection.

The rest of the theological and doctrinal error is based on the above error:
Upon conversion we are immediately raised from spiritual death by way of spiritual resurrection
by being raised from the grave of sin and debauchery. It is the resurrection of the spirit that causes the new birth. When resurrected our spirits are brought from death to life, this causes a new spiritually birth within our being.
We are born again (or born from above).

Praise be to God for the fact that many Christians (not all, but many) believe what Jesus said when they read what He said for themselves, and the manifold errors of "qualified" leaders make no difference to those who love Christ and His Word, and place God's Word above all things and reject doctrinal/theological errors like these:

TRUE PART:
When viewing this subject we must always remember, we are body, soul and spirit. The dead area within the human being prior to conversion is the spirit. The body is alive and the soul (the old man) is alive but the spiritual part of him – his spirit – is dead. It is therefore the dead spirit that is (1) quickened,
FALSE:
and (2) resurrected from its death that begets life
TRUE:
..and spiritual birth from above by the Spirit of Christ that begets life when God breathes Christ's life into your soul and you become a living soul.
TRUE:
The work of the Holy Spirit in sanctification is then a process of bringing body and soul into subjection of that live spirit and therefore a new nature or a living spiritual man.

This mixture of truth/error is caused from reading into scripture what is not there (eisegesis), and this is what causes you to misinterpret many other parts of scripture, because you have to get the square peg of your eisegesis to fit into the perfectly round scriptural statements.

I refer you back to the OP of this thread and encourage you to read all the scriptures listed there and consider the questions which follow - because the scriptures themselves prove beyond the shadow of any doubt that regeneration/resurrection from death refers only to the regeneration of the creation (the creature) through Christ and to the bodily (physical) resurrection from death of the saints. The New Testament does not equate spiritual birth from above with "resurrection". There is no such thing as a spiritual "regeneration". JESUS said you had to be born from above by the Spirit of God in order to enter the Kingdom of heaven.

I've no doubt that most "A-millennialils" are born from above and have life - but I also have no doubt that they have inherited a mixed up interpretation of these things and of the millennium from the first "educated expert" who, in his attempts to make sense of what did not make sense to him, developed this theory. For all we know, many of the first authors of this theology had changed their minds by the time they died but their first works survived in manuscripts.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Yes. Therefore we are raised with Him bodily when He returns for His elect, just as Paul said:

1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is still the first resurrection because it takes place by virtue of His resurrection and the fact that those who died in Christ and are "asleep" in Christ will rise first, and those who are alive in Christ will be changed. The second death will have no power over us or them. You can't make the bodily resurrection to occur when Christ returns a "second" resurrection.

So you've just admitted that the bodily resurrection of the saints which will occur when Christ returns is still the first resurrection, which bodily resurrection results in the saints reigning with Christ a thousand years - but it cannot be a "spiritual" thousand years since the saints will have now been bodily resurrected in what is still the first resurrection.


It's not a scriptural fact at all, because it's not a "spiritual resurrection" that takes place it's a spiritual birth that takes place - and this is what JESUS said, it's not what I say. And if whatever we say is not what Jesus said, our words do not count:

According to your theory and the church theology which produced it, JESUS said the following:

`Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and resurrected spiritually because he is dead spiritually, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;

that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been resurrected from spiritual death is spirit.
`Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be resurrected spiritually

But that is NOT what Jesus said, no matter how much your theology changes His words and the meaning of His words. What He said was,

John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born (gennao) of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;
that which hath been born (gennao) of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born (gennao) of the Spirit is spirit.
`Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born (gennao) from above;

Strongs: G1080
γεννάω gennaō ghen-nah'-o
From a variation of G1085; to procreate (properly of the father but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate: - bear beget be born bring forth conceive be delivered of gender make spring.


It is only figuratively to regenerate. You were only figuratively "regenerated" - but as JESUS stated, your spirit was only born when the Spirit of Christ breathed life into you (the way He had done with Adam when Adam became a living soul). Due to the fall of Adam, death was brought to all men, and you were born physically alive with a soul, but you had no spirit because the spirit of Adam was dead. God had to breathe life into you so that you could become a living soul:

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 1 Cor 15:45


It is not a regeneration of the old creation - it is a NEW creation:

for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation; Gal 6:15

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor 5:17


Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 1Cor 15:46-47

The word "quickened" and the word "regenerated" are not speaking of the same thing. The former relates to spiritual birth when God breathes life into you and you once again become a living soul (like Adam was, before the fall, before he died spiritually). The latter relates to resurrection from death - which in all New Testament verses mentioning it, is always bodily resurrection by virtue of the fact that you are alive spiritually because God breathed the Spirit of Christ into you when you heard the gospel, believed, repented, and turned and placed your faith in Christ.

It's also not every son of Adam who was quickened when you were quickened. It was every son of Adam who died spiritually when Adam died, and the last Adam quickens whomever believes in Him.
ERROR IN RED:


Truth of the above statement IN BLUE:
By our very union with Christ and the victory He has already wrought for us over death we enter into the triumph of
both spiritual and spiritual birth from above and physical resurrection.

The rest of the theological and doctrinal error is based on the above error:


Praise be to God for the fact that many Christians (not all, but many) believe what Jesus said when they read what He said for themselves, and the manifold errors of "qualified" leaders make no difference to those who love Christ and His Word, and place God's Word above all things and reject doctrinal/theological errors like these:

TRUE PART:

FALSE PART:

TRUE PART:

Do you reject the fact that Jesus is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5)?
 
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