WHAT HAPPENS TO THE UNREPENTANT WICKED AFTER THE 2ND COMING?

Der Alte · Jun 24, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
Does not Christ raise the dead to life time and again? Why do you think death or hell are impediments to salvation? Blessed are those who have not seen, and yet believe.

In other words you cannot show me two or more scriptures which unequivocally state "that faith comes through hearing, the heart is changed and the scales fall from the eyes. Behold the new man in Christ," happens after death, in the lake of fire etc..
All I see is assumption/presupposition.

bbbbbbb · Jun 24, 2020

Der Alte said:
In other words you cannot show me two or more scriptures which unequivocally state "that faith comes through hearing, the heart is changed and the scales fall from the eyes. Behold the new man in Christ," happens after death, in the lake of fire etc..
All I see is assumption/presupposition.

Not to mention wild speculation.

Aijalon · Jun 24, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
WHAT HAPPENS TO THE UNREPENTANT WICKED AFTER THE SECOND COMING?
(WHAT UNIVERSALISM WILL NOT TEACH YOU).

Wicked shall be destroyed
Psalms 145:20 The Lord preserveth all them that love him, but all the wicked He shall destroy
Psalms 101:8 I will early destroy all the wicked of the land, that I may cut off all wicked doers from the city of the Lord
Pslams 37:9-11 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait on the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yes, you shall diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

*
*
*

Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death

…………….

What meaning can be attached to the words "burned up" if not utter consumption or destruction? It is almost unbelievable that men can read these statements, that He (God) will make an utter end and they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry," and clear finite usage of terms like 'destruction', 'death', 'destroy', 'cut off', 'burn up' and 'be no more' and still believe in a literal, endless hell or the wicked will still be living being prepared for everlasting life (Universalism). The above is an ongoing and unfinished work some of which has been picked up from other places and added to which is simply all God's Word not mine.

May God bless you all as you seek him through His Word

This in no way defends universalism, it is evident that not all are saved. Rather we do know that the Lord DESIRES that all be saved. :angel:

Who the wicked are is a great question, and it will be quite a surprise to many who believe they are righteous (the self righteous). The trouble about that, too much is made of righteousness by creed, credentials. Say the right words, have the right friends..... presto. But sadly, even the righteous few who are the end times church at the second coming will be holding on to their faith by a nail. The church will be a prostitute of full display, and "out of her" will come the remnant of faithful believers. The apostasy is upon us good sir, it's well on its way. :liturgy:

Roasted? Or "Roasted".
No question that the wicked are destroyed, but the question is HOW does that take place. It is worth considering that the fire of their destruction is not a literal fire, but a verbal one. Essentially, the fire is what proceeds from the mouth of the Lord. He doesn't breath fire like a dragon, his "fire" is his speech. He condemns the wicked, and banishes them into outer darkness. The outer darkness is anywhere that the Light of his love and truth is not shining.

So, consider that there will be territory reserved for the wicked to live on earth, outside of the rule of law and order. They will have no "rain", which is in contrast to the saints, who receive the "later rain" which is eternal life (immortality). The wicked mortals may even continue to procreate and have a society, although not a very good one. :sick:

Shrewd Manager · Jun 24, 2020

bbbbbbb said:
Not to mention wild speculation.

That's it, the Bible's full of wild speculation:

Through Abraham's offspring all the families of the earth will be blessed. (Gen 26:24, Acts 3:25, Gal 3:8)

All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will worship before Him. (Ps 22:27)

All the earth shall fear the LORD; All the inhabitants of the world will stand in awe of Him. (Ps 33:8)

All kings bow down before him, all nations serve him. (Ps 72:11)

All nations shall call Him blessed. (Ps 72:17)

All nations shall come and worship before the Lord, and they shall glorify His name. (Ps 86:9)

The nations will fear the name of the LORD And all the kings of the earth His glory. (Ps 102:15)

All flesh will bless His holy name forever and ever. (Ps 145:21)

All the nations will come and worship before Him, because His righteous acts will be revealed. (Rev 15:4)

The nations will walk by Heaven's light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. (Rev 21:24)

The leaves of the tree of life will heal the nations (Rev 22:2)

Shrewd Manager · Jun 24, 2020

Der Alte said:
In other words you cannot show me two or more scriptures which unequivocally state "that faith comes through hearing, the heart is changed and the scales fall from the eyes. Behold the new man in Christ," happens after death, in the lake of fire etc..
All I see is assumption/presupposition.

Have it your own way der Alte, when God swears an oath that EVERYONE will pledge allegiance to Him, He surely means everyone except for the many who don't...and they get fried instead smh.

As I've shown you on so many occasions, the great promises and prophecies that saturate the OT regarding ALL the nations to the ends of the earth coming to worship, are fulfilled in the final visions of Revelation, when God makes all things new (Rev 21:5) and the nations emerge from the fire in to worship (Rev 21:24-26) and get healed (Rev 22:2).

Their rebellion and sinfulness has been destroyed, consumed in the fire of the love of God. It's really very straightforward, like saying 1+1+x=3. Solve for x. If it's too tough, you can phone a friend.

bbbbbbb · Jun 24, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
That's it, the Bible's full of wild speculation:

Through Abraham's offspring all the families of the earth will be blessed. (Gen 26:24, Acts 3:25, Gal 3:8)

All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will worship before Him. (Ps 22:27)

All the earth shall fear the LORD; All the inhabitants of the world will stand in awe of Him. (Ps 33:8)

All kings bow down before him, all nations serve him. (Ps 72:11)

All nations shall call Him blessed. (Ps 72:17)

All nations shall come and worship before the Lord, and they shall glorify His name. (Ps 86:9)

The nations will fear the name of the LORD And all the kings of the earth His glory. (Ps 102:15)

All flesh will bless His holy name forever and ever. (Ps 145:21)

All the nations will come and worship before Him, because His righteous acts will be revealed. (Rev 15:4)

The nations will walk by Heaven's light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. (Rev 21:24)

The leaves of the tree of life will heal the nations (Rev 22:2)

You probably know the saying, "Any verse taken out of context is a pretext for error."

Shrewd Manager · Jun 25, 2020

bbbbbbb said:
You probably know the saying, "Any verse taken out of context is a pretext for error."

Are you saying none of these verses mean what they say? Are you saying God did not actually mean it when He swore an oath that EVERYONE would swear allegiance to Him in Isa 45:23? And St Paul then erroneously took this great covenant promise out of context in Rom 14:11 and Phil 2:10-11?

Congratulations Sir, you've found the Bible to be riddled with error! Report this at once to your local minister.

bbbbbbb · Jun 25, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
Are you saying none of these verses mean what they say? Are you saying God did not actually mean it when He swore an oath that EVERYONE would swear allegiance to Him in Isa 45:23? And St Paul then erroneously took this great covenant promise out of context in Rom 14:11 and Phil 2:10-11?

Congratulations Sir, you've found the Bible to be riddled with error! Report this at once to your local minister.

I am not sure what the Minister of Health and Education would say if I told him such. He would probably be in hearty agreement.

Der Alte · Jun 25, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
Are you saying none of these verses mean what they say? Are you saying God did not actually mean it when He swore an oath that EVERYONE would swear allegiance to Him in Isa 45:23? And St Paul then erroneously took this great covenant promise out of context in Rom 14:11 and Phil 2:10-11?
Congratulations Sir, you've found the Bible to be riddled with error! Report this at once to your local minister.

Quoting Out of Context, [QOC] an informal, or material fallacy, is just such an example of a faulty understanding, which is then turn offered as a reason for some conclusion. As stated within the name, this particular fallacy is self-explanatory:
QOC happens when an individual quotes a statement that carried one nuanced meaning in its original conversation and context (literary or actual)¹ but then employs the same statement in such a way that the quote carries a meaning other than its original, to prove a point for which the statement was never intended.²
Because of the relative ease of recognizing such a fallacy, it may seem that it is not worth contemplating. However, the fallacy remains potent due to the fact that many hearers are not aware of the context out which the statement originated. Herein lies the power of such a fallacy. The concept is relatively easy to grasp; let us look to a few examples.
https://ses.edu/quoting-out-of-context/

Shrewd Manager · Jun 25, 2020

Der Alte said:
Quoting Out of Context, [QOC] an informal, or material fallacy, is just such an example of a faulty understanding, which is then turn offered as a reason for some conclusion. As stated within the name, this particular fallacy is self-explanatory:
QOC happens when an individual quotes a statement that carried one nuanced meaning in its original conversation and context (literary or actual)¹ but then employs the same statement in such a way that the quote carries a meaning other than its original, to prove a point for which the statement was never intended.²
Because of the relative ease of recognizing such a fallacy, it may seem that it is not worth contemplating. However, the fallacy remains potent due to the fact that many hearers are not aware of the context out which the statement originated. Herein lies the power of such a fallacy. The concept is relatively easy to grasp; let us look to a few examples.
https://ses.edu/quoting-out-of-context/

I hope you're prepared to apply that to your own remarks der Alte.

The proper context of any Biblical passage is ultimately Christ, the alpha and omega, the salvific plan of God from time immemorial. I'm perfectly happy to use this principle as a touchstone of interpretation of any passage. Do I err greatly in so doing, my friend?

Shrewd Manager · Jun 26, 2020

bbbbbbb said:
I am not sure what the Minister of Health and Education would say if I told him such. He would probably be in hearty agreement.

Because he would be a minion of the prince of this world. But God's glorious plan to restore creation as revealed on every page of the Bible testifies against him.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 28, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
Because he would be a minion of the prince of this world. But God's glorious plan to restore creation as revealed on every page of the Bible testifies against him.

Hmm what?

LoveGodsWord · Jun 28, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
I hope you're prepared to apply that to your own remarks der Alte.

The proper context of any Biblical passage is ultimately Christ, the alpha and omega, the salvific plan of God from time immemorial. I'm perfectly happy to use this principle as a touchstone of interpretation of any passage. Do I err greatly in so doing, my friend?

Shrewd take the help dear friend. You have been provided context and it disagrees with you. Be blessed and receive Gods' Word, ignoring it does not make it disappear.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 28, 2020

@Shrewd Manager what is funny about ignoring scripture context? Doing so can lead us away from God and His Word. What do you think 2 PETER 3:16-17 means? We need to turn away from the teachings of men and ask God to be our guide and teacher. *JOHN 14:26.

Shrewd Manager · Jun 29, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
what is funny about ignoring scripture context?

You tell me, my friend.

LoveGodsWord said:
What do you think 2 PETER 3:16-17 means?

It means NEVER FORGET OR READ DOWN GOD'S GREAT COVENANT OATH TO SAVE ALL MANKIND.

Do you sir overlook that overarching supervening paramount emphatic universal absolute rock-solid divine commitment?

LoveGodsWord said:
We need to turn away from the teachings of men and ask God to be our guide and teacher. *JOHN 14:26.

Yes indeed we do.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 29, 2020

LoveGodsWord said: Shrewd take the help dear friend. You have been provided context and it disagrees with you. Be blessed and receive Gods' Word, ignoring it does not make it disappear.

You applied a funny rating to the post above to which I responded below...

@Shrewd Manager what is funny about ignoring scripture context? Doing so can lead us away from God and His Word. What do you think 2 PETER 3:16-17 means? We need to turn away from the teachings of men and ask God to be our guide and teacher. *JOHN 14:26.

Your response...

Shrewd Manager said:
You tell me, my friend.

I was not providing funny ratings on statements made stating that scripture context should not be ignored in interpretation. As posted already ignoring scripture context can lead us away from God and His Word.

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ What do you think 2 PETER 3:16-17 means?

Your reponse here..

Shrewd Manager said:
It means NEVER FORGET OR READ DOWN GOD'S GREAT COVENANT OATH TO SAVE ALL MANKIND. Do you sir overlook that overarching supervening paramount emphatic universal absolute rock-solid divine commitment?

According to God's Word and scripture context God does not save the unrepentant wicked after the second coming they are destroyed (scriptures support here linked)

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ We need to turn away from the teachings of men and ask God to be our guide and teacher. *JOHN 14:26.

Your response here...

Shrewd Manager said:
Yes indeed we do.

The bible does not teach that the unrepentant wicked receive eternal life after the second coming. It teaches they are destroyed and partake of the second death (scriptures support here linked).

Hope this helps.

FineLinen · Jun 29, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
The bible does not teach that the unrepentant wicked receive eternal life after the second coming. It teaches they are destroyed and partake of the second death (scriptures support here linked).

Hope this helps.

It helps ziltch!

Your addition "after the second coming" demonstrates how much is evading your grasp.

1. The vast vast majority of mankind have never experienced conversion in this present life.

2. There are no time limits of the steadfast love of the Lord that never ceases.

3. The vast segments of Abba's reconciliation is in the dispensation of the fulness of times.

4. The God who IS salvation is the Beginning & Ending of the all: the ta panta.

5. The Source, Guide & Goal of the all is Abba.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 29, 2020

FineLinen said:
It helps ziltch!

Your addition "after the second coming" demonstrates how much is evading your grasp.

1. The vast vast majority of mankind have never experienced conversion in this present life.

2. There are no time limits of the steadfast love of the Lord that never ceases.

3. The vast segments of Abba's reconciliation is in the dispensation of the fulness of times.

4. The God who IS salvation is the Beginning & Ending of the all: the ta panta.

5. The Source, Guide & Goal of the all is Abba.

Well it depends I guess dear friend if we believe the scriptures are the Word of God or not. I have only provided you with the scriptures that are God's Word not mine because I believe them and to me they are God's Word not my words which are sent only in love and as a help to those who believe them. In response you provide your words that are not God's but yours over the Words of God. Perhaps it is best for us to leave it for the reader to decide. You are of course free to believe as you wish. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them anything else is polluted waters from broken cisterns. I would say to all that it is time to leave the lady of second chances (Universalism) and drink from the living waters of eternal life. Don't gamble with the gambling lady's doctrine of second chances. According to the scriptures there is no second chances for the unrepentant wicked after the second coming, only the second death in the lake of fire (scriptures support here linked).

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

Shrewd Manager · Jun 30, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
ccording to the scriptures there is no second chances for the unrepentant wicked after the second coming, only the second death in the lake of fire

That's right! There are indeed NO SECOND CHANCES FOR THE UNREPENTANT WICKED. They cannot avoid their fate. Their sin-loving false identities will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire...and they will be RAISED TO LIFE ANEW.

You want evidence? Look to the fruits of the 'holy fire treatment' in Revelation, fellow:

Nations are consumed (20:9), then arise again (21:24)
Nations come as enemies (20:8), then return as friends (21:24)
Unbelievers hurt by the second death (2:11, 20:14), then healed by the leaves of the tree of life (22:2)
Men go in sinful (21:8, 22:15), then emerge as overcomers welcome into heaven (Rev 22:14, 21:25)
Sinners go in cursed (21:8), then come out blessed (22:3).
Robes now impure and dirty (21:25), then washed white (22:14)
Death goes in (20:14), Life comes out (Rev 22:17).

And what happens in the interim? 'Behold I am making all things anew' (Rev 21:5).

Never forget sir, that God has pledged His word to save all mankind, and His word shall not return void.

I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. (Isa 45:23, Rom 14:11, Phil 2:10)

And the Book of Revelation contains the revelation of the method: by Grace, through Faith, in Christ.

Now will you sing this song?

And they sang the song of Moses, the bond-servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, "Great and marvelous are Your works, O Lord God, the Almighty; Righteous and true are Your ways, King of the nations! "Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU, FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED." (Rev 15:3-4)

See how it is with God that all things work together for the good?

TexFire316 · Jun 30, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
WHAT HAPPENS TO THE UNREPENTANT WICKED AFTER THE SECOND COMING?
(WHAT UNIVERSALISM WILL NOT TEACH YOU).

…………….

What meaning can be attached to the words "burned up" if not utter consumption or destruction? It is almost unbelievable that men can read these statements, that He (God) will make an utter end and they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry," and clear finite usage of terms like 'destruction', 'death', 'destroy', 'cut off', 'burn up' and 'be no more' and still believe in a literal, endless hell or the wicked will still be living being prepared for everlasting life (Universalism). The above is an ongoing and unfinished work some of which has been picked up from other places and added to which is simply all God's Word not mine.

May God bless you all as you seek him through His Word

Looks like you answered the question without any of my help.

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE UNREPENTANT WICKED AFTER THE 2ND COMING?

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Well-Known Member

Sayin' it like it is

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

Well-Known Member

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

Well-Known Member

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

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Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

Come as a child, with no agenda

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