Anyone want to discuss KJVO ?

Dansiph

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I believe KJVO is not a true doctrine, as it has no Scriptural support, even in the KJV itself. Anyone wanna try to defend KJVO ?
Have you considered non-doctrinal and non-Spiritual reasons? The academic credentials of the translators for example? The amount of men working on the translation or the time spent translating the KJV? Also what Bible version do you use?
 
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JIMINZ

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I do not believe the KJVO belief either needs or has to be defended, any more than Christianity itself needs or has to be defended, those who do believe in KJVO do so by faith.

All of the arguments I have heard against KJVO belief centers around semantics, grammar, ease of reading, if that is all one wants or needs then fine with me, read what you want, but don't make KJVO another battleground for Christians to divide themselves over.

Personally I go for clarity of understanding, continuity of thought, I'm content to be a KJVO advocate when asked, I have never in all my 53yrs of walking with the Lord, ever felt I needed anything else to bolster or give me deeper Understanding and Knowledge, it doesn't need to go any further than that.

As far a debating the issue, there is no issue, it's OPINION.
You are entitled to yours, I am entitled to mine, in the end were still Brothers in Christ and that is all that matters.

Be Blessed in HIM
 
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robycop3

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Have you considered non-doctrinal and non-Spiritual reasons? The academic credentials of the translators for example? The amount of men working on the translation or the time spent translating the KJV? Also what Bible version do you use?

The KJV, as all translations are, is a product of God's perfect word handled by imperfect men.

The lack of Scriptural support is alone a good reason to reject KJVO. God is not limited to any one translation in any language. While some languages may have only one translation, there's nothing preventing further ones from being made.

What versions do I use ? Mostly, the NKJV & NASV. I study the older ones from Wycliffe's thru the Bishop's & the KJV, especially the AV 1611.
 
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robycop3

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I do not believe the KJVO belief either needs or has to be defended, any more than Christianity itself needs or has to be defended, those who do believe in KJVO do so by faith.

All of the arguments I have heard against KJVO belief centers around semantics, grammar, ease of reading, if that is all one wants or needs then fine with me, read what you want, but don't make KJVO another battleground for Christians to divide themselves over.

Personally I go for clarity of understanding, continuity of thought, I'm content to be a KJVO advocate when asked, I have never in all my 53yrs of walking with the Lord, ever felt I needed anything else to bolster or give me deeper Understanding and Knowledge, it doesn't need to go any further than that.

As far a debating the issue, there is no issue, it's OPINION.
You are entitled to yours, I am entitled to mine, in the end were still Brothers in Christ and that is all that matters.

Be Blessed in HIM

KJVO has become quite an issue, opinion or not, in more than one congregation. Some even claim it to be a salvation issue ! If that were true, there would've been no Christians til 1611 !

When I witness, I want to present the Gospel in MODERN English, as I have yet to encounter anyone still using Elizabethan-Jacobean English as a primary language.

And the KJV has its shares of goofs & booboos, such as "Easter" in Acts 12:4, & the words "and shalt be" ADDED to Rev. 16:5. (That phrase is NOT found in any ancient Greek mss. of the Revelation !)

Why not use a Bible version in our own language ?
 
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Dansiph

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The KJV, as all translations are, is a product of God's perfect word handled by imperfect men.

The lack of Scriptural support is alone a good reason to reject KJVO. God is not limited to any one translation in any language. While some languages may have only one translation, there's nothing preventing further ones from being made.

What versions do I use ? Mostly, the NKJV & NASV. I study the older ones from Wycliffe's thru the Bishop's & the KJV, especially the AV 1611.
I would like to ask where is God's perfect Word then? Why can't a translation be accurate?

I really don't understand how you can say there is no Scriptural support when the Bible itself is the support. My last thought is I don't think people's issue is another translation being made. It's another translation that affects the text and doctrine. I've heard "KJVO" people say themselves, even Pastors, that they wouldn't care if it was updated into a modern language. That isn't what modern versions do though.

The problem for me personally is it wouldn't be anywhere near as powerful and also the use of thee, thou, thine, ye etc for me is a good thing.
 
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robycop3

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I would like to ask where is God's perfect Word then? Why can't a translation be accurate?

Every valid translation is FAIRLY-accurate, but none can perfectly convey every subtlety & nuance of the original writings. (Or at least the closest thing to the originals we have.)

I really don't understand how you can say there is no Scriptural support when the Bible itself is the support.

In that case, please show us any Scripture that points specifically to the KJV.

My last thought is I don't think people's issue is another translation being made. It's another translation that affects the text and doctrine. I've heard "KJVO" people say themselves, even Pastors, that they wouldn't care if it was updated into a modern language. That isn't what modern verisons do though.

That's a matter of opinion. We weren't there when the manuscripts were made; we don't know who wrote most of them, where or when, nor do we know what their sources were. Thus, one has no authority to say a given Scriptural ms. is incorrect if it doesn't exactly match the Textus Receptus.

The problem for me personally is it wouldn't be anywhere near as powerful and also the use of thee, thou, thine, ye etc for me is a good thing.

"Power" doesn't matter if ACCURACY isn't there. The KJV has its share of inaccuracies. And again, no one regularly uses Elizabethan-Jacobean English any more in everyday life.
You're free to make your own choice, however, and so am I. And I choose to present God's word when I witness in the language the audience understands best.
 
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Dansiph

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And again, no one regularly uses Elizabethan-Jacobean English any more in everyday life.
As far as I know, even in the 17th century people did not speak like the King James Bible in every day speech.

More info about that is mentioned in this website post: Authorized Review – Chapter 5: The KJV as a Second Language

Also in response to some of your earlier points I will send this post: Where does God say the book of Esther is perfect Scripture? – AV1611 Blog It goes on to address some of what you said.

The reason I am sending website pages and not answering myself is because I agree with them and would just be repeating what they say but not as eloquently.
 
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JIMINZ

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"Power" doesn't matter if ACCURACY isn't there. The KJV has its share of inaccuracies.

Who says the accuracy isn't there, YOU?
Inaccuracies according to who?

Sounds more like you just don't believe what is because you personally weren't there to witness it.

You either believe what is written or you don't, after all what we profess is Faith not proof.

Are there things which don't fit your Doctrine?
 
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robycop3

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Who says the accuracy isn't there, YOU?
Inaccuracies according to who?

Many Greek readers, among others, say "Easter" in the KJV's Acts 12:4 is a goof. And, while I don't read Greek, I know that's indeed a goof. EASTER DIDN'T EXIST when Luke wrote "Acts". And if it had, neither Herod nor the Jews he was trying to please wouldn't've left off dealing with Peter to have observed it.

And no one can show us any ancient Scriptural manuscript that has the words "and shalt be" in Rev. 16:5.

That's just TWO of the KJV's goofs & booboos. There are plenty more, found by Greek readers worldwide.

Sounds more like you just don't believe what is because you personally weren't there to witness it.

You either believe what is written or you don't, after all what we profess is Faith not proof.

Are there things which don't fit your Doctrine?

If you're KJVO, your "faith" in it is actually guesswork. The KJVO myth is 100% man-made, derived from a cult official's book, without one quark of Scriptural support.
 
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robycop3

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As far as I know, even in the 17th century people did not speak like the King James Bible in every day speech.

More info about that is mentioned in this website post: Authorized Review – Chapter 5: The KJV as a Second Language

Also in response to some of your earlier points I will send this post: Where does God say the book of Esther is perfect Scripture? – AV1611 Blog It goes on to address some of what you said.

The reason I am sending website pages and not answering myself is because I agree with them and would just be repeating what they say but not as eloquently.

The KJV, even the 1769 revision used today, is a lot closer to the writings of Shakespeare, or of King james himself, than it is to current vernacular. And it was largely made from the Geneva & Bishop's versions that immediately preceeded it.

While the Model T is still a street-legal car, my new Fusion is more-comfortable & better in every way when compared to a Model T. Same with newer Bible versions. The Model T was made for what served as roads in 1909, as the KJV was made for the British of the 17th C. I use Bible translations written in the language I use today, which any other English user can understand.

While the Holy Spirit is the ultimate Teacher, we must give Him the material to work with. He won't give us the understanding of God's word if we don't READ OR HEAR His word in our own language.
 
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Strong in Him

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I believe KJVO is not a true doctrine, as it has no Scriptural support, even in the KJV itself. Anyone wanna try to defend KJVO ?

I agree with you.
But if anyone said that NIVO, GNBO etc was not a doctrine, I'd agree with that too.

Just read the Bible folks; what translation you use is up to you.
 
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I do not believe the KJVO belief either needs or has to be defended, any more than Christianity itself needs or has to be defended, those who do believe in KJVO do so by faith.

All of the arguments I have heard against KJVO belief centers around semantics, grammar, ease of reading, if that is all one wants or needs then fine with me, read what you want, but don't make KJVO another battleground for Christians to divide themselves over.

Personally I go for clarity of understanding, continuity of thought, I'm content to be a KJVO advocate when asked, I have never in all my 53yrs of walking with the Lord, ever felt I needed anything else to bolster or give me deeper Understanding and Knowledge, it doesn't need to go any further than that.

As far a debating the issue, there is no issue, it's OPINION.
You are entitled to yours, I am entitled to mine, in the end were still Brothers in Christ and that is all that matters.

Be Blessed in HIM

There's nothing wrong with reading the KJV
There's not even anything wrong with reading no other Bible but the KJV.
The problem comes when people claim that the KJV alone is the word of God and that all other versions are corrupt. Usually people will concede that the newer, and "corrupt" versions have the same Gospel as the KJV, and will concede that God can still speak through them. But some don't.

If you are saying that it doesn't matter, and that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, I agree with you.
 
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Strong in Him

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I would like to ask where is God's perfect Word then?

Jesus.

Why can't a translation be accurate?

They are as accurate as people can make them.
But language changes, and new discoveries are made.

I really don't understand how you can say there is no Scriptural support when the Bible itself is the support.

The Bible does NOT say "The KJV is the ONLY Bible that Christians should use". Therefore, there is no Scriptural support for that claim.

My last thought is I don't think people's issue is another translation being made. It's another translation that affects the text and doctrine. I've heard "KJVO" people say themselves, even Pastors, that they wouldn't care if it was updated into a modern language. That isn't what modern verisons do though.

No, some modern versions omit words that were never in the Greek text but which were ADDED by the KJV.
In previous arguments, KJV onlyists have always compared the modern versions with the KJV, and where they've differed, forwarded that as proof that the KJV is the more accurate. That is not correct - we need to compare all versions with the Hebrew/Greek texts to see which are the closest. It seems that KJVO folk are not keen to do this - probably because they may find that their preferred version is not the most accurate.

The problem for me personally is it wouldn't be anywhere near as powerful and also the use of thee, thou, thine, ye etc for me is a good thing.

God's word has enormous power.
By his word the world was created; by his words sicknesses have been healed and the dead raised.
 
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Dansiph

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Jesus.



They are as accurate as people can make them.
But language changes, and new discoveries are made.



The Bible does NOT say "The KJV is the ONLY Bible that Christians should use". Therefore, there is no Scriptural support for that claim.



No, some modern versions omit words that were never in the Greek text but which were ADDED by the KJV.
In previous arguments, KJV onlyists have always compared the modern versions with the KJV, and where they've differed, forwarded that as proof that the KJV is the more accurate. That is not correct - we need to compare all versions with the Hebrew/Greek texts to see which are the closest. It seems that KJVO folk are not keen to do this - probably because they may find that their preferred version is not the most accurate.



God's word has enormous power.
By his word the world was created; by his words sicknesses have been healed and the dead raised.
That is not correct - we need to compare all versions with the Hebrew/Greek texts to see which are the closest. It seems that KJVO folk are not keen to do this
Many "KJVO" people are fluent in Greek and can read Koine Greek. I'm currently learning Greek myself. Please read the above links sent to Robycop also.
 
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