Are All Slaveowners Equal?

Archivist said:

That’s why I asked about slaveowners.

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Not really being qualified to answer, I will reply with How could they possibly all be alike?
Not even all the citizens of Cairo, Illinois are all alike.

Every advanced culture at one time utilized slaves. It's what led them to be advanced. At other times those same became slaves when a newer power conquered them.

There are statues in Greece of Pericles who was a slave owner, for 500 years many Greeks especially the women were sold into slavery to the Berbers of North Africa by the Ottomons until 1908.
You can and should commemorate your people's trials and accomplishments. But in the end of the day get over it. No one cares. Especially since most in this country arrived after 1892 thru Ellis Island. No one gives a cr*p about your suffering.

JIMINZ said:

Yeah your 100% correct, that is exactly the reason every statue was erected.

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Feel free to look when most Confederate statues were erected. It wasn't immediately after the Civil War, it was decades, many decades later, and done so during Jim Crow during moments of social unrest in which African Americans were speaking out.

So, yeah, those Confederate statues were erected intentionally to terrorize black people and to be symbols of white hegemony.

Nobody is talking about all statues.
Most are not talking about all statues of people who happened to own slaves.
Most are talking about statues of people who fought as traitors for the cause of slavery and whose statues were erected specifically and intentionally as symbols of racism and violence against people of African descent.

-CryptoLutheran

JIMINZ said:

That was the way things were in that era.

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And.
It.
Was.
Wrong.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

Feel free to look when most Confederate statues were erected. It wasn't immediately after the Civil War, it was decades, many decades later, and done so during Jim Crow during moments of social unrest in which African Americans were speaking out.

So, yeah, those Confederate statues were erected intentionally to terrorize black people and to be symbols of white hegemony.

Nobody is talking about all statues.
Most are not talking about all statues of people who happened to own slaves.
Most are talking about statues of people who fought as traitors for the cause of slavery and whose statues were erected specifically and intentionally as symbols of racism and violence against people of African descent.

-CryptoLutheran

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Taking down certain statues isn't worrisome. It's that fact that angry mobs are coming together to destroy anything they deem offensive. What happens when its you or your family they become offended by?

Jermayn said:

Taking down certain statues isn't worrisome. It's that fact that angry mobs are coming together to destroy anything they deem offensive. What happens when its you or your family they become offended by?

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Should I be more worried about those who want to remove statues, or those who break into people's homes and murder them while they are in their bed?

Frankly, I look around me and I'm more afraid of those with badges, not those protesting injustice. And I say that as a person with white privilege. I've generally lived my life without fear of the police, on account of my being white.

But right now? After all I've seen? I saw a group of cops shove a frail 75 year old man onto pavement causing him to bleed from his skull. If they'll do that to a frail 75 year old white dude, they'll do it to anyone.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

And.
It.
Was.
Wrong.

-CryptoLutheran

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Yes.
It.
Was.
It.
Has.
Changed.
Since Then!

ViaCrucis said:

Should I be more worried about those who want to remove statues, or those who break into people's homes and murder them in their sleep?

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Is that meant to depict a clear perspective on priorities of value?

ViaCrucis said:

Frankly, I look around me and I'm more afraid of those with badges, not those protesting injustice. And I say that as a person with white privilege. I've generally lived my life without fear of the police, on account of my being white.

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Rom. 13:3,4
3) For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4) For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Anyone who abuses that Power Authority given to them by God will be heald responsible for any abuse.

We do not need to see a public flogging to know, God is Just and He will repay.

ViaCrucis said:

But right now? After all I've seen? I saw a group of cops shove a frail 75 year old man onto pavement causing him to bleed from his skull. If they'll do that to a frail 75 year old white dude, they'll do it to anyone.

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It was two (2) Police which pushed him, and because he was 75 he lost his balance, I know because I am 75 it's easily done even without being pushed.

You are recounting an incident incorrectly, which constitutes Gossip, it does nothing but further the anger and hatred against ALL police, not every Policeman is like the one that Killed (Murdered) Floyd, but they are all being painted with the same broad brush.

People want to De-fund the Police Dept's.

Remember.
"Be careful what you pray for, you just might get it."

Archivist said:

We have seen statues of numerous Confederate leaders come down. More recently statues honoring slaveowners who predated the Civil War have been removed.

But, are all slaveowners created equal? I would first note that at one point in his life Benjamin Franklin owned two slaves. Turning against slavery, Franklin eventually freed them. He went on to become the president of an abolitionist organization. Likewise James Wilson owned one slave who he freed. He thereafter worked against slavery, a practice that he believed would die out. James Buchanan actually purchased two slaves in Virginia who he took to Pennsylvania and freed. Yes, there was a political reason for this--he didn't want to run for office with a slaveowner in the family--but he still freed two slaves.

Should these men be placed in the same category as those who owned but never freed their slaves? I don’t think so--I think their statues should stay up (assuming there are statues of Wilson)--but I’m eager to hear what others think.

Benjamin Franklin . Citizen Ben . Abolitionist | PBS

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George Washington made a will to set his slaves free after he died. The northern states abolished slavery by 1804. Abraham Lincoln set the slaves free after General Lee surrendered to General Grant at Appomattox Court House, VA.

Archivist said:

We have seen statues of numerous Confederate leaders come down. More recently statues honoring slaveowners who predated the Civil War have been removed.

But, are all slaveowners created equal? I would first note that at one point in his life Benjamin Franklin owned two slaves. Turning against slavery, Franklin eventually freed them. He went on to become the president of an abolitionist organization. Likewise James Wilson owned one slave who he freed. He thereafter worked against slavery, a practice that he believed would die out. James Buchanan actually purchased two slaves in Virginia who he took to Pennsylvania and freed. Yes, there was a political reason for this--he didn't want to run for office with a slaveowner in the family--but he still freed two slaves.

Should these men be placed in the same category as those who owned but never freed their slaves? I don’t think so--I think their statues should stay up (assuming there are statues of Wilson)--but I’m eager to hear what others think.

Benjamin Franklin . Citizen Ben . Abolitionist | PBS

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I am not sure why depictions of past historical figures in stone should have any value in a Christians walk. I say bring down all depictions even one's that depict Christ. Be blessed.

Archivist said:

Even if they turned from slavery?

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Repentance only works for the Lord's forgiveness. It doesn't erase the consequences of evil deeds done. Criminals who repented still have to spend time in jail, some experience setbacks, even some denied a statue.

Worse, some people you've wronged could still commit acts of revenge against you even if you have begged them for forgiveness.

Repentance won't erase consequences in this world. You would get saved BUT you still have to suffer to your history of evil deeds.

Hind sight is 20/20. One would think if it was history they were concerned about you would be looking at ones that started or had something to do with it.

No not equal. Before this.. 2 months ago? I was looking in to that. Watching those that were still alive and hearing their story. Many were so mistreated.. many others were not. Its nice to be reminded how far we have come. A year ago.. this very old black man said "racist use to be the last word you would ever hear. Today its the first word". Seen so many of them speaking out.. America is not racist. Hearing that from countless black people. Anyway

Slave owners.. were not the same. So many that at one time had slaves.. saw the light so to speak and did things for the rest of their life to stop it.

Archivist said:

We have seen statues of numerous Confederate leaders come down. More recently statues honoring slaveowners who predated the Civil War have been removed.

But, are all slaveowners created equal? I would first note that at one point in his life Benjamin Franklin owned two slaves. Turning against slavery, Franklin eventually freed them. He went on to become the president of an abolitionist organization. Likewise James Wilson owned one slave who he freed. He thereafter worked against slavery, a practice that he believed would die out. James Buchanan actually purchased two slaves in Virginia who he took to Pennsylvania and freed. Yes, there was a political reason for this--he didn't want to run for office with a slaveowner in the family--but he still freed two slaves.

Should these men be placed in the same category as those who owned but never freed their slaves? I don’t think so--I think their statues should stay up (assuming there are statues of Wilson)--but I’m eager to hear what others think.

Benjamin Franklin . Citizen Ben . Abolitionist | PBS

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People should not be judged by the world they inherited but by what they did with that world. Slavery had always existed Just like despotic human government. Despotic human government had to go first because it imposed slavery. The founding fathers barely had the power to do that with the aid from other nations. They did not have the power to rid the nation of slavery but they absolutely set in on the course to do that.

The Northwest Ordinance. One of the first laws past by congress banned slavery in any new states.

As far as individuals are concerned. Let’s take the two most famous. Washington and Jefferson. They were citizens of the state of Virginia. IT WAS ILLEGAL TO FREE ANY SLAVES IN THAT STATE. There was a ten year period where you could free them upon your death as long as those slaves received an inheritance from your estate that would provide them a living for life. Washington took advantage of this and did so. The law was done away with. Jefferson as a junior member of Virginia’s house signed on with a senior member to try to pass a law that gave Virginians the right to free thier slaves. He said of the sponsor of the bill. He has never to this day seen a man more abused, libeled and vilified Than the sponsor of that bill. Never passed.

The king of England imposed slavery on all the colonies. That was the real start of the move towards independence. Pennsylvania has banned it long before that. In fact Pennsylvania’s model was the model the founders tried to follow. Once independence was won most northern states outright banned it or phased it out by law.

They simply did not have the power to do this in the whole nation. Once the founders began to die off. As they were way to popular to politically oppose. That was when the Democratic Party was formed to oppose the founders vision for the nation under Trail of Tears slave monger Andy Jackson who set the nation on course to civil war. The Democrat party dominated the federal government from that point on until Abraham Lincoln got elected. They used the federal governments power to completely reverse the course the founders of the nation put it on. It was a horrible, horrible time.

ViaCrucis said:

Should I be more worried about those who want to remove statues, or those who break into people's homes and murder them while they are in their bed?

Frankly, I look around me and I'm more afraid of those with badges, not those protesting injustice. And I say that as a person with white privilege. I've generally lived my life without fear of the police, on account of my being white.

But right now? After all I've seen? I saw a group of cops shove a frail 75 year old man onto pavement causing him to bleed from his skull. If they'll do that to a frail 75 year old white dude, they'll do it to anyone.

-CryptoLutheran

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Well, you shouldn't be worried about anything, but it should be of some concern that there are groups of people destroying anything they deem offensive and trying to take over large areas of big city's to start their own "country". Also, I wouldn't live in terror of the police just because the news channels are doing everything in their power to cast a negative light on them. How many people do you figure were helped by the police in comparison to the instance of the 75 year old? I remember 10 or 15 years ago when everyone thought the sharks had gone insane and were hunting down any human that even touched the ocean. In actuality, shark attacks were occurring at the same frequency as any other year. Everyone had just become so paranoid because every incident of it was being plastered all over the news.

Michael Collum said:

Today we still have slavery, it's just called human trafficking.

So taking down statues of prominent figures who owned slaves is still very relevant.

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Its not about blacks! The blacks are being used as an exploited tool by the propaganda machine that is wishing to divide and conquer.

We all should be made aware of the following. The blacks think they have a monopoly.

Do you spank a man for something he did as a child? After he's grown up and no longer doing such things?

and, so? .....

Do you spank a nation for something it did as a child? After its matured and grown and is no longer doing that thing?

We should load all the blacks who are bitter into a time machine and let them attack the guilty. Not Us! We had nothing to do with it.

If anything? Its these bitter blacks who are now committing atrocities that they should be spanked for! They are just as bad as the slave owners were.

JIMINZ said:

Were Slave holders all Racists, Bigots, Haters of Black people, or was it a way of life and of the time, when machinery was not available?

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Are you being serious?

JIMINZ said:

That was the way things were in that era.

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Were really in trouble if this is the way Christians think as as well. But you are entitled to your own views I understand.

genez said:

Do you spank a man for something he did as a child? After he's grown up and no longer doing such things?

and, so? .....

Do you spank a nation for something it did as a child? After its matured and grown and is no longer doing that thing?

We should load all the blacks who are bitter into a time machine and let them attack the guilty. Not Us! We had nothing to do with it.

If anything? Its these bitter blacks who are now committing atrocities that they should be spanked for! They are just as bad as the slave owners were.

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The more I read the more ridiculous these comments are by loving Christians.