Down under the law

LoveGodsWord said:

Let's clarify perhaps it may have been best written as all have sinned and all are sinners in need of God's salvation. That does not mean that christians do not sin. They simply do not practice known sin. Neither does it mean that they cannot be tempted to sin what they already know to be sin and have repented from. There is a difference between known sin and unknown sin (justification and sanctification). We are only held accountable to God for what we know, not what we do not know to be sin.

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I agree that Philippians 3:16 shows that we need to walk in the light we have. However, Hebrews 6 and 2 Peter 1 also shows us that we are expected to not stay ignorant, but to keep growing and perfecting.

I have to disagree that any apostle teaches the defeatist doctrine that a true Christian will continue to sin, as you said, "That does not mean that Christians do not sin." When John's whole purpose in his writings if so we will not sin. 1 John 2:1

Paul - We are dead to sin. We are not in the flesh but in the Spirit.

Peter - 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

John - 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

eleos1954 said:

??????

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9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

LoveGodsWord said:

No one loves God by breaking his commandments the same as no one loves their neigbour by stealing from them, lying to them, committing adultery with their spouse, murdering them, dishonouring their parents, or coveting what God has given them. You cannot separate love from God's law as love is expressed through obedience to God's law and is why JESUS says "ON THESE TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS (of love to God and man) HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets. *MATTHEW 22:36-40. Paul says the same thing in ROMANS 13:8-10 which is simply a reference to HEBREWS 8:10-12.

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If you love Jesus then keep HIS commandments. I do. You only preach keeping His Fathers commandments. Where in the Ten Commandments does it say to believe in Jesus Christ. Or to love your enemy?

Word and Spirit said:

I agree that Philippians 3:16 shows that we need to walk in the light we have. However, Hebrews 6 and 2 Peter 1 also shows us that we are expected to not stay ignorant, but to keep growing and perfecting.

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Indeed, as the scriptures also say that we need to continue believing and following His Word in order to be His disciples and the promise is given we will know the truth and the truth will set us free from sin, to walk like JESUS *JOHN 8:31-36; GALATIANS 5:16; MATTHEW 5:48; HEBREWS 12:14; 1 JOHN 3:4-9; REVELATION 14:12.

Word and Spirit said:

I have to disagree that any apostle teaches the defeatist doctrine that a true Christian will continue to sin, as you said, "That does not mean that Christians do not sin." When John's whole purpose in his writings if so we will not sin. 1 John 2:1

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You would be disagreeing with yourself then as no one has said that a true Christian continues in known unrepentant sin. If no one has said such things why are you pretending that they have? What do you think the difference between known sin and unknown sin is and those who are babes in the Word of God and those who God teaches knowledge and the meat of the Word of God? What do you think ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17 mean? Perhaps you have a misunderstanding of what was being shared with you although I thought I clarified this in the earlier posts.

Word and Spirit said:

Paul - We are dead to sin. We are not in the flesh but in the Spirit.

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True. Those who are in the Spirit do not practice known sin (breaking anyone of God's commandments). Does one sin if they do not know what sin is and have not been given a knowledge of sin? What do you think ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17 means?

Word and Spirit said:

Peter - 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

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True we are indeed to add to our faith knowledge, virtue, self control, perserverance, godliness, brotherly kindness and love. Does this happen over time or instantly? How does this relate to the questions and scriptures shared with you in the previous section of this post? Can you walk before you can crawl and does one become fully grown in the Word of Grace before they are babes feeding on milk? Who does God teach knowledge and when?

Word and Spirit said:

John - 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

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The reference here should be 1 JOHN 3:9. The Greek actually reads to practice sin.

1 JOHN 3:9 Πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ ἁμαρτίαν οὐ ποιεῖ, ὅτι σπέρμα ἐν αὐτῷ μένει· καὶ οὐ δύναται ἁμαρτάνειν, ὅτι ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ γεγέννηται.

Anyone having been born of God sin not practices because seed of Him in Him abines and not able to continue sinning because of God he has been born.

It does not mean does not do any sin. The Greek here is in reference to knowingly practicing sin. As there are sins we do not know that are sin until God gives us a knowledge of His truth and convicts us something that we are doing is sin.

Hope this is helpful.

Word and Spirit said:

If you love Jesus then keep HIS commandments. I do. You only preach keeping His Fathers commandments. Where in the Ten Commandments does it say to believe in Jesus Christ. Or to love your enemy?

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JESUS and his father are one JOHN 17:21. If a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand *MARK 3:25. JESUS and the Father are one and do not have different commandments. JESUS is the living Word of God *JOHN 1:1-4; 14 and it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. *MATTHEW 4:4 (from DEUTERONOMY 8:3). If you keep God's commandments you would keep his 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that express love to God and man. Do you keep all of God's commandments of love dear friend?

Word and Spirit said:

9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

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1 John 3:9
English Standard Version
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Even being born again ... Yes we sin ... however ... because God's seed is in us .... He will help us overcome it (over time) IF we continue in Him .... we don't become sinless ... nor does that exclude us from sinning.

1 John 1:8

7But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.…

LoveGodsWord said:

You would be disagreeing with yourself then as no one has said that a true Christian continues in known unrepentant sin.

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How would I be disagreeing with myself, when I've said a true Christian doesn't sin (willfully and knowingly)? That doesn't make sense.

LoveGodsWord said:

What do you think ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17 mean? Perhaps you have a misunderstanding of what was being shared with you although I thought I clarified this in the earlier posts.

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Acts 17:30-31 means from Old Testament times before Christ.

James 4:17 shows a hypocrite (fake Christian) who isn't walking in the light he has from knowledge of the Word. He doesn't have the Spirit.

LoveGodsWord said:

True we are indeed to add to our faith knowledge, virtue, self control, perserverance, godliness, brotherly kindness and love. Does this happen over time or instantly? How does this relate to the questions and scriptures shared with you in the previous section of this post? Can you walk before you can crawl and does one become fully grown in the Word of Grace before they are babes feeding on milk? Who does God teach knowledge and when?

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That is not justification and sanctification, but being glorified. This is the process of growth we were talking about earlier. Those that submit to this growth of becoming like Christ will never stumble and sin (a true Christian).

2 Peter 1:10-11
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

LoveGodsWord said:

The reference here should be 1 JOHN 3:9. The Greek actually reads to practice sin.

1 JOHN 3:9 Πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ ἁμαρτίαν οὐ ποιεῖ, ὅτι σπέρμα ἐν αὐτῷ μένει· καὶ οὐ δύναται ἁμαρτάνειν, ὅτι ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ γεγέννηται.

Anyone having been born of God sin not practices because seed of Him in Him abines and not able to continue sinning because of God he has been born.

It does not mean does not do any sin. The Greek here is in reference to knowingly practicing sin. As there are sins we do not know that are sin until God gives us a knowledge of His truth and convicts us something that we are doing is sin.

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A true Christian does not commit an act of lawlessness (vs. 4) for it is already written in their hearts and is part of their new nature. This chapter is not about unknown sins not unto death, but sins unto death. In other words we cannot commit these sins even once, let alone practice them.

LoveGodsWord said:

JESUS and his father are one JOHN 17:21. If a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand *MARK 3:25. JESUS and the Father are one and do not have different commandments. JESUS is the living Word of God *JOHN 1:1-4; 14 and it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. *MATTHEW 4:4 (from DEUTERONOMY 8:3). If you keep God's commandments you would keep his 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that express love to God and man. Do you keep all of God's commandments of love dear friend?

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21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.

Do not murder is the Old Covenant, but Jesus goes to the root of the problem and says do not hate, then gives His own Spirit to fill us and accomplish true righteousness. That is the difference between the Father's Commandments that were holy, but "For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law, and Jesus's commandments - the law of the Spirit of life in Christ.

eleos1954 said:

1 John 3:9
English Standard Version
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Even being born again ... Yes we sin ... however ... because God's seed is in us .... He will help us overcome it (over time) IF we continue in Him .... we don't become sinless ... nor does that exclude us from sinning.

1 John 1:8

7But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.…

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I John 1:8 is not a Christian but mankind before accepting Christ and confessing that he is a sinner. Vs. 9 then Christ cleanses him from ALL UNRIGTEOUSNESS, and 1 John 3:1 calls us, not a sinner, but a child of God.

Word and Spirit said:

I John 1:8 is not a Christian but mankind before accepting Christ and confessing that he is a sinner. Vs. 9 then Christ cleanses him from ALL UNRIGTEOUSNESS, and 1 John 3:1 calls us, not a sinner, but a child of God.

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the apostle is not speaking of mankind in general who sin, for Christ is not an advocate for all that sin, but of these in particular; (those who have fellowship with God - believers - christians)

eleos1954 said:

the apostle is not speaking of mankind in general who sin, for Christ is not an advocate for all that sin, but of these in particular; (those who have fellowship with God - believers - christians)

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Let's get something straight. Do you believe that 1 John 1:8 is a Christian? What about 1 John 1:6 those who walk in darkness? Christians walk in the light 1:7.

Word and Spirit said:

How would I be disagreeing with myself, when I've said a true Christian doesn't sin (willfully and knowingly)? That doesn't make sense.

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Quite easily, your making an argument no one is making (strawman). You posted...

I have to disagree that any apostle teaches the defeatist doctrine that a true Christian will continue to sin, as you said, "That does not mean that Christians do not sin." When John's whole purpose in his writings if so we will not sin. 1 John 2:1

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What are you disagreeing with if no one has ever made that argument? You also never once added the words "willfully and knowingly". Your making arguments no one is making therefore your argument is with yourself as no one is making this argument accept you.

Word and Spirit said:

Acts 17:30-31 means from Old Testament times before Christ.

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Hmm.. nope, that is not the meaning of ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31. Did you want to have another go?

Word and Spirit said:

James 4:17 shows a hypocrite (fake Christian) who isn't walking in the light he has from knowledge of the Word. He doesn't have the Spirit.

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If you do not know just say so. Did you want to have another go?

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ True we are indeed to add to our faith knowledge, virtue, self control, perserverance, godliness, brotherly kindness and love. Does this happen over time or instantly? How does this relate to the questions and scriptures shared with you in the previous section of this post? Can you walk before you can crawl and does one become fully grown in the Word of Grace before they are babes feeding on milk? Who does God teach knowledge and when?

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Your response...

Word and Spirit said:

That is not justification and sanctification, but being glorified.

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Hmmm what??? Where in the post section your quoting from do I give a definition of justification? All you have done here is seek to avoid every question asked of you. You do not have to answer the questions if you do not know the answers or do not want to, just say so. Each of the questions asked relate directly to the scriptures. Let me know if you would like me to share them with you.

Word and Spirit said:

A true Christian does not commit an act of lawlessness (vs. 4) for it is already written in their hearts and is part of their new nature. This chapter is not about unknown sins not unto death, but sins unto death. In other words we cannot commit these sins even once, let alone practice them.

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Nonsense. Your teaching the false doctrine of perfectionism which is not biblical. If that were true what is the point of temptation if we cannot be tempted to sin? That is why I asked you earlier what do you think the meaning of ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31 and JAMES 4:17 means. Justification is forgivness for sins we know are sin after confession and repentance. Sanctification is growing in the knowledge of God's Word and learning more about sin and holiness for which no man shall see God. This is a work of the lifetime. We are all at different stages of our walk with JESUS based on our understanding and application of God's Word as we believe and follow what God teaches us. Justification is expressed in the scriptures PROVERBS 28:13; 1 JOHN 1:9, EPHESIANS 2:8-9; JOHN 3:16. Sanctification is expressed in the scriptures

2 PETER 1:4-8
[4], Whereby are given to us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[5], And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[6], And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[7], And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[8], For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Sanctification is the work of a lifetime and what it means to grow in God's grace and the knowledge of his Word through faith.

Dear friend, you claim to love God and keep his commandments and not sin. Yet according to the scriptures sin is breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments in thoughts *MATTHEW 5:27-28 or in action *JAMES 2:10-11. I am not suggesting you do not love God but can I ask you how can you say you love God from the heart while knowingly breaking God's 4th commandments?

You did not answer this question I asked you earlier. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7. Now if you did not know that breaking God's law was sin what do you think ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31 and JAMES 4:17 might mean in relation to Christian growth?

Hope this is helpful.

Word and Spirit said:

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.

Do not murder is the Old Covenant, but Jesus goes to the root of the problem and says do not hate, then gives His own Spirit to fill us and accomplish true righteousness. That is the difference between the Father's Commandments that were holy, but "For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law, and Jesus's commandments - the law of the Spirit of life in Christ.

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Hmm yeps. So how does this post here relate to what you are quoting from here....

LoveGodsWord said: ↑JESUS and his father are one JOHN 17:21. If a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand *MARK 3:25. JESUS and the Father are one and do not have different commandments. JESUS is the living Word of God *JOHN 1:1-4; 14 and it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. *MATTHEW 4:4 (from DEUTERONOMY 8:3). If you keep God's commandments you would keep his 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that express love to God and man. Do you keep all of God's commandments of love dear friend?

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I am sorry I do not see how what you have written here answers any question asked of you dear fiend or what you have written here addresses anything in the post you are quoting from? I posted the above scriptures in relation to your earlier claims that the commandments of JESUS and the Father are not the same and somehow different and what it means to believe in JESUS who is the living Word of God. So what you have posted here is not relavant to what you are quoting from or a part of the dicussion or the question asked of you. I am happy to discuss it if you like but why did you post what you posted here? It seems not relevant to what we were discussing. Of course all God's commandments must be kept from the heart through faith that works by a new heart to love. That is the purpose of MATTHEW 5 sermon on the mount. This also includes God's 4th commandments and the question your avoiding answering.

Cribstyl said:

False doctrines are often commentary and questions designed to contradict scriptures.

The Son of God died on a cross. True or False? True. Did God die on a cross? Yes or No? No.
The triune God we worship is understood as 1 God in 3 persons. The personage of the Godhead are distinct characters but are still one God. The father is not the Son.
What you're presenting would contradict countless scriptures including Jesus saying:
Jhn 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Mat 5:21¶Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
At the sermon on the mount,(above) Jesus referenced commandments in the law as given
by them of old times(Moses), and not as commandments given by Himself. That fact is why John can write:

Jhn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ

The law of Christ are the commandments taught by Christ, His apostles and Paul. Scriptures distinguishes Christ's commandments from the law given to Moses.
James called it the law of liberty.
John called it grace and truth.
Mark 3:25 is a reference to God's house vs Satan's house. The father and the Son's house is 1 but the Son is subjected to the Father. They have different ministries but the same purpose. To save mankind from sin.

LGW, as your custom, you ignored what Word and Spirit said (below) to make questionable opposing statements using various scriptures and comment that don't address what he posted.
Word and Spirit said: ↑
If you love Jesus then keep HIS commandments. I do. You only preach keeping His Fathers commandments. Where in the Ten Commandments does it say to believe in Jesus Christ. Or to love your enemy?
Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

LGW, you often isolate this text from context as if referring to the ten commandments when it's not. You know better, but you do it all the time. This text is what is being presented to as Christ's commandments, is supported in context (below)as specifically what Jesus taught His disciples were His commandments.
Jhn 15:10

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Jhn 15:11

These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
Jhn 15:12

This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Jhn 15:13

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Jhn 15:14

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

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I see. So did JESUS give commentary on the scriptures and ask questions to those who came to him? Now if JESUS gave commentary and interpreted the scriptures and asked questions are you also saying that he was teachings false doctrines with that line of thinking? I do not believe you are accusing JESUS or the Apostles but how are we to know who has the truth of God's Word and who does not?

The religious teachers in the time of JESUS certainly thought the same as what your stating here dear friend. The religious teachers in the days of JESUS certainly accused JESUS of contradicting and misinterpreting the scriptures, peddling false doctrines and blaspheming God in his day. Note it was also the religious teachers in the days of Jesus and the Apostles that accused them of being from the devil and his followers being a cult. Yet it was this very JESUS that was the living Word of God and His Apostles and Prophets that the religious teachers of the day killed and sought to stop by putting their fingers in their ears lest they should hear God's Word and be reconcilled to God through repentance, confession and faith in the Words of God's messengers. The religious teachers of the day, thought that they were doing God service by killing his only begotten son and all his prophets before him and his Apostles after him. Yet it was those who the religious teachers of the day claimed were a cult of the devil that had the truth of God's Word?

There is nothing new here under the sun. As it was in the days of JESUS and the prophets and Apostles so will it be again and always has been throughout time to this present day.

Reminds me of what JESUS was sharing with the disciples in more then one place in the scriptures...

MATTHEW 5:11 [11] Blessed are you, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. [12], Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

and again here...

MATTHEW 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

Now if those who oppose God's Word and the religious teachers of the day are the ones accusing JESUS of being from the devil and his Word being false doctrine and his followers being a cult from the devil. How are you going to know who has the truth of God's Word and who has not accoriding to your line of thinking? God sent the religious teachers of the day all through time the prophets, to help His people return to God.

Today we are the children of the prophets yet all through time to this very present day the Word of God is fulfilled; "Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which showed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom you have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it" ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 7:52-53

Thankyou for your blessings dear friend but for me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God. BABYLON the great has fallen has fallen, it is now time to come out and be separate and return back to the pure Word of God as God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth.

No one loves God by breaking his commandments or is Grace a lisence to sin. The scriptures however are very clear as to who is from God and who is not...

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Sin which is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11 and not believing and following God's Word *ROMANS 14:23 is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:9-10. Those who are the children of God do not practice sin (breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments) *1 JOHN 3:6-9; REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14.

Hope this is helpful.

LoveGodsWord said:

What are you disagreeing with if no one has ever made that argument? You also never once added the words "willfully and knowingly". Your making arguments no one is making therefore your argument is with yourself as no one is making this argument accept you.

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I apologize if you do not believe true Christians willfully sin. Then we agree.

LoveGodsWord said:

Hmm.. nope, that is not be meaning of ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31. Did you want to have another go?

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I already said what the truth is. If you disagree, then tell me your truth with corroborating scripture.

LoveGodsWord said:

Hmm yeps. So how does this post here relate to what you are quoting from here....

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Two different covenants. The first was a weak representation of the eternal law and could not make anyone righteous, and the second is the one that can truly make us righteous and holy, ready to live with God forever.

LoveGodsWord said:

That is the purpose of MATTHEW 5 sermon on the mount. This also includes God's 4th commandments and the question your avoiding answering.

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Where in the Sermon on the Mount did Jesus address the 4th commandment? You are assuming something that is not there.

Word and Spirit said:

I apologize if you do not believe true Christians willfully sin. Then we agree.

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That is ok. I think what we do not agree on is the application and meaning of ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31 and JAMES 4:17 and their application to known and unknown sin.

Word and Spirit said:

I already said what the truth is. If you disagree, then tell me your truth with corroborating scripture.

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Ok no problems. ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31 and JAMES 4:17 are related to the same subject matter of growth in the knowledge of Gods Word and God's grace to those that believe and follow God's Word.

ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31 [30], AND THE TIMES OF THIS IGNORANCE GOD WINKED AT; BUT NOW COMMANDS ALL MEN EVERY WHERE TO REPENT: [31], Because he has appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; whereof he has given assurance to all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.

links to...

JAMES 4:17 [17], Therefore TO HIM THAT KNOWS TO DO GOOD, AND DOES IT NOT, TO HIM IT IS SIN.

The scriptures state that in times of ignorance as long as we are living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to us through his Word we are not held accountable for what we do not know until God gives has a knowledge of the truth of His Word. At this time he calls us to believe and follow his Word. Hence we have two types of sin. That is known sin which is what we are all held accountable to God for and unknown sin that God will eventually teach us as we continue getting the knowledge of his Word as we are convicted by God's Spirit of His Word. This is the process of sanctification and holiness and Christian growth and God's salvation as we believe and follow God's Word.

Hope this is helpful

Word and Spirit said:

Two different covenants. The first was a weak representation of the eternal law and could not make anyone righteous, and the second is the one that can truly make us righteous and holy, ready to live with God forever.

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Hmm nope. In the post you are quoting from by me I was not talking about the two covenants. I simply provided scripture showing that JESUS and his father are one as are His commandments. In fact JESUS in MATTHEW 5 is magnifying the law (10 commandments) to our very thoughts and feelings by quoting EXODUS 20:13-14 and applying them to the thoughts of the heart in fulfillment of ISAIAH 42:21. Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees you shall in no wise enter into the Kingdom of heaven *MATTHEW 5:20. Still this is not relevant to what I posted to you in regards to JESUS and the Father being of one mind now is it?

Word and Spirit said:

Where in the Sermon on the Mount did Jesus address the 4th commandment? You are assuming something that is not there.

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Why does JESUS on the sermon on the mount need to address God's 4th commandment when he directly addresses what it really means to keep Gods 10 Commandments by quoting the 6th and 7th commandments as examples of what it means to obey God's 10 commandments from the heart? There are 10 commandments in God's 10 commandments is there not? Your not arguing that JESUS is saying we must only obey God's 6th and 7th of the 10 commandments and we are free to break the other 10 commandments are you? I am sure you are not but can you see that is where that line of reasoning leads? Why are you avoiding answering my questions in relation to love and keeping God's commandments, as you claim you keep in regards to God's 4th Commandment? It is ok you do not have to answer this question if you do not want to. I only hope the best for you and all love in the Lord JESUS.

God bless.

@LoveGodsWord

Will be back later when I can spend more time. But at first glance you seem to think that Jesus taught the Ten Commandments, instead of seeing the obvious improvement that the commandments of Jesus have through the gospel.