An Adventist Church pioneer makes it to "heretic of the week" list for Jan 2020

BobRyan · Jun 22, 2020

Jan 2020 - Catholic Herald lists Ellen White in -- "Heretic of the Week"

So no doubt they find that the Catholic denomination and the Seventh-day Adventist denomination differ on some doctrines - but the question is do they get "the details right" about what they claim Adventists teach, or what the historic facts of the 1800's were?

Heretic of the week: Ellen G White - Catholic Herald

1. They claim that William Miller (who was never a Seventh-day Adventist BTW) claimed to be prophet. (which of course he did not).

"Adding to the general excitement, a self-described biblical prophet, William Miller, came up with two dates for Doomsday in that fraught decade"

Miller never claimed to be a prophet. He claimed to be able to study the Bible and understand prophecy - much like someone in Christ's day would read Daniel 9 and claim that the time had come for the Messiah to appear. Reading Daniel 9 would not make them a prophet. See that publication does not do well on that particular "detail".

As for "predicting two dates" - Miller never gave any specific date - from his own study .. rather he thought that 1833-1844 spring (any time in that year) was the year that Daniel 8:14 pointed to as the year for the second coming.

(of course we now know that Dan 8:14 was not talking about the 2nd coming).

Samuel Snow then argued for another date - Oct 22, 1844 which Miller rejected but then eventually in the month of October he joined the group that was promoting Oct 22.

====================================

How does that article do on the other claims it makes?

BobRyan · Jun 22, 2020

Second problem with historic facts for that article above -

"But a remnant retained the faith in Miller that Miller himself lacked. At the head of many of these emerged Ellen G White (1827-1915), a native of Maine. Shortly after Miller’s second debacle in 1844, she received the first of more than 2,000 visitations she claimed to have from Christ.

Ellen Harmon would have turned 17 in 1844 just after Samuel Snow's Oct 22 prediction for the 2nd coming failed. And she was not "the leader" of anything in 1844, 1845 etc though she had her first vision in the fall of 1844.

"Her ongoing revelations formed the basis of the doctrine upon which she and her husband, James, founded the Seventh-day Adventist Church"

Turns out all the doctrines at that time and to this very day that can be found in the published statement of Adventist Beliefs - use as their proof -- Bible texts and not a single reference to Ellen White's statements for basing their doctrinal claims.

The Catholic Church will base its doctrinal statements on a combination of tradition and the Bible that they freely demonstrate in their Catechism.

Adventists also freely demonstrate the basis and "proof" for their doctrinal statements in their own 28 Fundamental beliefs. And it is the Bible.

That is just the nature of how it works -- each group shows the basis for its beliefs using the sources it believes makes the case - when it publishes its statement of beliefs.

So that article gets a low score for accuracy on that particular claim as well.

NBB · Jun 22, 2020

The bible plus Ellen White though.

Like the sabbath.
Michael the arcangel i think.
And hell not being eternal.

BobRyan · Jun 22, 2020

NBB said:
The bible plus Ellen White though.

Like the sabbath.
Michael the arcangel i think.
And hell not being eternal.

1. hell not being eternal is in our fundamental beliefs and references Matthew 10:28 .. not Ellen White.
2. There is nothing about Michael the archangel in our doctrinal statement of beliefs - and never has it been there. A lot of us believe like many non-SDA scholars that "the Angel of the Lord" in the Bible is in fact God the Son - ... and many of us also believe that one of his titles is Michael "The" Archangel. (There is only one archangel) as one of the forms that God the Son, 2nd person of the Godhead, takes.
3. The Sabbath is in our fundamental beliefs and references Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 66:23 etc..not Ellen White.
4. And while it is true that the RCC states in their statement of beliefs that their source is tradition plus the bible, our statement of beliefs is strictly confined to the Bible as its source of proofs.

Aussie Pete · Jun 22, 2020

BobRyan said:
1. hell not being eternal is in our fundamental beliefs and references Matthew 10:28 .. not Ellen White.
2. There is nothing about Michael the archangel in our doctrinal statement of beliefs - and never has it been there. A lot of us believe like many non-SDA scholars that "the Angel of the Lord" in the Bible is in fact God the Son - ... and many of us also believe that one of his titles is Michael "The" Archangel. (There is only one archangel) as one of the forms that God the Son, 2nd person of the Godhead, takes.
3. The Sabbath is in our fundamental beliefs and references Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 66:23 etc..not Ellen White.
4. And while it is true that the RCC states in their statement of beliefs that their source is tradition plus the bible, our statement of beliefs is strictly confined to the Bible as its source of proofs.

Ellen G. White was apparently a proponent of vegetarianism. This is plainly unbiblical. If people want to be vegetarians, fine. Their choice. But it is a natural issue, not spiritual.

BobRyan · Jun 22, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Ellen G. White was apparently a proponent of vegetarianism.

That is true but our statement of beliefs says this -
https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf

============================================
22. Christian Behavior:
We are called to be a godly people who think, feel, and act in harmony with the principles of heaven. For the Spirit to recreate in us the character of our Lord we involve ourselves only in those things which will produce Christlike purity, health, and joy in our lives. This means that our amusement and entertainment should meet the highest standards of Christian taste and beauty. While recognizing cultural differences, our dress is to be simple, modest, and neat, befitting those whose true beauty does not consist of outward adornment but in the imperishable ornament of a gentle and quiet spirit. It also means that because our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, we are to care for them intelligently. Along with adequate exercise and rest, we are to adopt the most healthful diet possible and abstain from the unclean foods identified in the Scriptures. Since alcoholic beverages, tobacco, and the irresponsible use of drugs and narcotics are harmful to our bodies, we are to abstain from them as well. Instead, we are to engage in whatever brings our thoughts and bodies into the discipline of Christ, who desires our wholesomeness, joy, and goodness. (Rom. 12:1, 2; 1 John 2:6; Eph. 5:1-21; Phil. 4:8; 2 Cor. 10:5; 6:14-7:1; 1 Peter 3:1-4; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; 10:31; Lev. 11:1-47; 3 John 2.)
==========================================

Nothing in there of the form "because Ellen White wrote this or that".
Not even a statement about being vegan.

Having said that - God did show Ellen White a number of details about how eating meat causes disease - and would be more and more unhealthy as time progresses

At this point it is "science fact"

Aussie Pete said:
This is plainly unbiblical.

Aussie Pete said:
If people want to be vegetarians, fine. Their choice.

turns out -- that is true.

But it is a natural issue, not spiritual.

Eating poison and cancer, covid-19 is a sin against the body - Paul makes a point of stating that all such things including drug abuse is not for Christians in his letter to the Corinthians.

Daniel Marsh · Jun 24, 2020

What is their, catholic definition of cult?

BobRyan · Jun 25, 2020

Daniel Marsh said:
What is their, catholic definition of cult?

Not sure - but they did include the condemnation of this --

"These doctrines included ... identification of the pope as Antichrist; three separate Divine Persons rather than the orthodox doctrine of Trinity; and several other unique teachings."

Heretic of the week: Ellen G White - Catholic Herald

reddogs · Jun 25, 2020

BobRyan said:
Jan 2020 - Catholic Herald lists Ellen White in -- "Heretic of the Week"

So no doubt they find that the Catholic denomination and the Seventh-day Adventist denomination differ on some doctrines - but the question is do they get "the details right" about what they claim Adventists teach, or what the historic facts of the 1800's were?

Heretic of the week: Ellen G White - Catholic Herald

1. They claim that William Miller (who was never a Seventh-day Adventist BTW) claimed to be prophet. (which of course he did not).

Miller never claimed to be a prophet. He claimed to be able to study the Bible and understand prophecy - much like someone in Christ's day would read Daniel 9 and claim that the time had come for the Messiah to appear. Reading Daniel 9 would not make them a prophet. See that publication does not do well on that particular "detail".

As for "predicting two dates" - Miller never gave any specific date - from his own study .. rather he thought that 1833-1844 spring (any time in that year) was the year that Daniel 8:14 pointed to as the year for the second coming.

(of course we now know that Dan 8:14 was not talking about the 2nd coming).

Samuel Snow then argued for another date - Oct 22, 1844 which Miller rejected but then eventually in the month of October he joined the group that was promoting Oct 22.

====================================

How does that article do on the other claims it makes?

I just saw that in the Walter Veith program 'Whats up Prof', let me see if I can find it as he really hit on those points and more.

Search

Search

An Adventist Church pioneer makes it to "heretic of the week" list for Jan 2020

BobRyan

Junior Member

More options

BobRyan

Junior Member

More options

NBB

Well-Known Member

More options

BobRyan

Junior Member

More options

Aussie Pete

Well-Known Member

More options

BobRyan

Junior Member

More options

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member

More options

BobRyan

Junior Member

More options

reddogs

Contributor

More options

Similar threads