Resurrection, First Resurrection and New Birth

Zao is life

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You didn’t mention Matthew 27:51-53 in the OP. If the first resurrection is still future, do you have to spiritualize the event in Matthew 27?
Matthew 27:51-53 is referring to a bodily resurrection and it's not calling it a "spiritual" resurrection. The point is that in all the New Testament, there is no such thing as a "spiritual" resurrection either stated or implied. It's a bodily resurrection. The new birth is not a "resurrection". It's a spiritual birth.
 
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Zao is life

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Denying what the inspired text says does not negate the reality of the fact. You seem to think: if you repeat this enough someone will actually believe you. That is not the way it works! The above texts that have been submitted speak about the believer being raised from death to life by way of spiritual resurrection. We are shown to be buried with Christ in death, and resurrected in the likeness of His glorious resurrection into newness of life. This couldn't be clearer. This is a spiritual reality! Being raised from the grave of our sin and being born from above are 2 analogies that describe the same supernatural spiritual experience.

Acts 26:23 presents Christ’s physical resurrection as the first resurrection, saying, “Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first resurrection from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

Acts 26:23
That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.
Please explain how Christ's bodily resurrection which is being referred to in the above verse, equates to our spiritual birth when we are born again by the Spirit.

.. and stop playing games by side-stepping the issue.

Firstborn from the dead - the verses you quote below refer to Christ's bodily resurrection and do not equate to our new birth when we are born of the Spirit from above.

Stop playing games and side-stepping the issue:

Colossians 1:18 closely mirrors Acts 26:23, saying, “And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”

Revelation 1:5 uses the same Greek word to describe Christ’s triumphant resurrection, saying, “Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.”

Paul similarly says in 1 Corinthians 15:20, “now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

You have no evidence that the verses which are talking only about either Christ's bodily resurrection or the bodily resurrection of those found in Him or both, are equating spiritual birth from above with the bodily resurrection that ALL these verses are talking about, and you have utterly failed, till now, to provide evidence that Revelation 20:6 is not speaking of the first resurrection of the saints following the return of Christ and following the time of Christ's resurrection.

The verses you quote are also referring to a bodily resurrection - not to a born-again experience.

And since you have utterly failed to provide any evidence till now, you have shown that you cannot. It's simply what you have read into the scriptures which talk about the resurrection from the dead - your eisegesis.
 
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Zao is life

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That post is just full of personal opinion.
Even if it were it would make a nice change from threads being flooded with your posts full of nothing more than personal opinion based on your reading the word "resurrection" into what Christ said to us about being born from above.
 
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nolidad

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Seeing you carefully avoided this post on the last thread, I will re-post it here:

The Christian experiences two resurrections - spiritual and physical.

So if a Christian was spiritually dead before salvation and they are now spiritually alive, by what means does Scripture say we are brought from death into newness of life?

The only way that we can transition from death to life (both spiritually and physically) is by way of resurrection. There is no other way! This is demonstrated many times in Scripture in regard to both spiritual and physical resurrection.

Two resurrections result for the believer from Christ’s one resurrection. Man needs both spiritually redeemed and physically redeemed. When one gets saved they are spiritually redeemed. But they are not physically redeemed until resurrection day. His “first resurrection” secured both resurrections for those who will put their faith in Christ.

Romans 6:3-6 says, “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up (or) egeiro (Strong’s 1453) from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection (or) anastasis (Strong’s 386): Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”

There are two Greek words used in Romans 6:3-10 that are used to describe the resurrection of Christ, and that are significantly in turn purposely equated to the believer and the new birth experience; they are egeiro (Strong’s 1453) and anastasis (Strong’s 386). Such a correlation between these two diverse types of resurrection (physical and spiritual) is only secured through Christ’s sinless life, atoning death and glorious resurrection, enabling the believer to walk in resurrection power and “newness of life.” The believer here is therefore supernaturally transferred from a condition of death into one of life. This undoubtedly relates (1) to a spiritual state, and, (2), to the here in now. It cannot relate to the physical resurrection which is still future and which occurs at the second coming of Christ.

The first word egeiro (Strong’s 1453) is used many times throughout the New Testament to describe the Lord’s physical resurrection. These references are found in Matthew 14:2, 16:21, 17:9, 23, 20:19, 26:32, 27:63, 64, 28:6, 7, Mark 14:28, 16:6, 14, Luke 1:69, 9:22, 24:6, 34, John 2:19, 20, 22, 21:14, Acts 3:15, 4:10, 5:30, 10:40, 13:30, 37, Romans 4:24, 25, 6:4, 9, 7:4, 8:11, 34, 10:9, 1 Corinthians 6:14, 15:4, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20, 2 Corinthians 4:14, 5:15, Galatians 1:1, Ephesians 1:20, Colossians 2:12, 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and 1 Peter 1:21.

Similarly, the other Greek word anastasis (Strong’s 386), which is identified several times in Scripture with the new birth spiritual resurrection is also used several times to describe the Lord’s physical resurrection. It is derived from the root word anistemi (Strong’s 450). These are outlined in Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:34, 16:9, Luke 18:33, 24:7, 26, John 20:9, Acts 2:24, 31, 32, 3:26, 4:2, 33, 10:41, 13:33, 34, 17:3, 18, 26:23, Romans 15:12, Philippians 3:10 1 Thessalonians 4:14, 1 Peter 1:3, 3:21.

The same two Greek words that are repeatedly employed to describe Christ’s physical resurrection from the dead are also used in Ephesians 5:14 to describe the new birth experience of the believer. The sinner being commanded: Awake (or) egeiro (Strong’s 1453) thou that sleepest, and arise (or) anistemi (Strong’s 450) from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light (Ephesians 5:14).

The resurrection portrayed here is again not a physical resurrection, but, a spiritual resurrection in which the recipient (the sinner) receives the joy of salvation. Through this spiritual resurrection, the believer receives the “light” of God and is therefore spared the awful sentence of eternal wrath. The verb “arise” in this text specifically relates to salvation and is a metaphor describing the spiritual resurrection that Christians undergo when they are lifted from the grave of sin. It also demonstrates the blessing that follows this resurrection. The true child of God receives the blessed light of God’s dear Son the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Lord Himself declared in John 8:12, “I am the light of the world, he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.” It is worth noting, Paul is speaking to first century Ephesian citizens in this reading, who lived at least 1,950 years away from the actual return of the Lord. He is offering them the opportunity of walking in the fullness of the resurrection life then. Moreover, this resurrection life is still available today to sinners that humbly bow their knee to Christ.

If the Premillennialist can see that there is a resurrection in the New Testament, pertaining to the believer, which precedes the physical resurrection, which releases a man from the punishment of the second death (eternal wrath) – involving the new birth experience, then he should be able to accept the fact that it is the “first resurrection.”

Luke 2:34 also records, “Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again anastasis (or resurrecting, Strong’s 386) of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against.”

Matthew Henry explains in relation to this passage, “He (Jesus) is set for the rising again of many in Israel, that is, for the conversion of many to God that are dead and buried in sin, and for the consolation of many in God that are sunk and lost in sorrow and despair. Those whom he is set for the fall of may be the same with those whom he is set for the rising again of. He is set eis ptosin kai anastasin - for their fall, in order to their rising again; to humble and abase them, and bring them off from all confidence in themselves, that they may be exalted by relying on Christ; he wounds and then heals, Paul falls, and rises again”

The believer is raised from the grave of his sin and spiritual death at conversion, which of necessity must be a spiritual resurrection. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 1:8-10, “For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life: But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth (or) egeiro (Strong’s 1453) the dead: Who delivered us (past tense) from so great a death, and doth deliver (present tense): in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us (future tense).”

This whole passage is concentrated upon the great eternal provision of spiritual deliverance. The word “raiseth” in this reading is a present active verb, therefore it is talking about a resurrection that is happening now, rather than the future physical resurrection. This is obviously speaking of spiritual resurrection, because it alone has been ongoing since Christ’s first (physical) resurrection. This will, of course, culminate with the general physical resurrection at His return.

Paul goes on then to emphasise the victorious ongoing hope that the risen saints have through salvation, regardless of what is arrayed against them. He is reminding the believer of the security that exists “in Christ.” Whilst justification is an act (when we are spiritually redeemed) and glorification also an act (when we are physically redeemed), sanctification is a process of making us more like Christ. In all three experiences Christ holds a firm grip upon His people. He looks after them, and sustains them along the way. Christ therefore has “delivered,” (past tense) “doth deliver” (currently) and “will yet deliver” (future tense) Hi sheep.

So the allusion to “God which raiseth the dead” is talking in a broad sense about the day of salvation (the here-and-now). It describes the ongoing spiritual process secured through Christ’s glorious resurrection from the dead. For someone to move from death and the grave (in either the natural or the spiritual) to life (natural or spiritual) requires resurrection.

The same word repeatedly applied to Christ’s physical resurrection in the New Testament – egeiro – is here again used spiritually to describe the spiritual resurrection of the believer from the reality of spiritual death. It shows a present realisation and victorious triumph over that state in this testimony of Paul. This reading does not at all indicate that the believer will not experience natural death, no, but rather, that he wouldn’t experience spiritual death. It positively outlines that through the spiritual (or first) resurrection the believer is rescued from entering into the awful realisation of the second death (eternal punishment).

Colossians 2:10-14 says, “ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ‘ye are risen with him’ (or) sunegeiro (Strong’s 4891) through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised (or) egeiro (Strong’s 1453) him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened (or) suzoopoieo (Strong’s 4806) together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.”

This explicit passage describes the act of salvation as a resurrection feat. Moreover, the raising of the forgiven child of God in resurrection power in salvation is in turn carefully identified with, and connected to, Christ’s glorious resurrection. It confirms that our hearts “are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ” in salvation, and likens this supernatural work to a death, burial and resurrection. This reading shows how the child of God is “buried with him,” “quickened together with him,” and finally “risen with him.”

Before salvation we are carnally alive, but spiritually dead. Our natural man is alive and kicking but our spiritual man is totally unresponsive. So in order to shift from death to life our spiritual man must first experience the quickening power (or life giving touch) of the Holy Spirit in which our blind spiritual eyes are opened in order for us to see as God sees. In this he sees sin for what it is, putrid, ugly and destructive. He see that sin is an offence to God and that it must be punished. The Holy Spirit then shows the penitent sinner the way out – Jesus Christ and His shed blood at Calvary. He then trades His sin for Christ’s righteousness in salvation whereupon he is raised from the grave of his sin.

Salvation is a supernatural act in which God breathes spiritual life into the sinner through regeneration. He quickens the corpse through the work of the Spirit, enabling the sinner to recognise his plight and cry out for mercy. The sinner surrenders all confidence in self (he dies to self) and acknowledges his need of Christ. Spiritual resurrection results.

Concerning spiritual resurrection. You are more wrong than right. Prior to salvation, we were never alive spiritually! All of mankind is born dichotomous, that is only with a body and soul. We are spiritually born dead. When we are born again- it is not called a resurrection, but a new birth or being made a new creature and that is when we are trichotomous, body, soul and spirit! So there really is no spiritual resurrection.
 
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DavidPT

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The Christian experiences two resurrections - spiritual and physical.

So if a Christian was spiritually dead before salvation and they are now spiritually alive, by what means does Scripture say we are brought from death into newness of life?

The only way that we can transition from death to life (both spiritually and physically) is by way of resurrection. There is no other way! This is demonstrated many times in Scripture in regard to both spiritual and physical resurrection.

Two resurrections result for the believer from Christ’s one resurrection. Man needs both spiritually redeemed and physically redeemed. When one gets saved they are spiritually redeemed. But they are not physically redeemed until resurrection day. His “first resurrection” secured both resurrections for those who will put their faith in Christ.

Romans 6:3-6 says, “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up (or) egeiro (Strong’s 1453) from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection (or) anastasis (Strong’s 386): Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Here you go. This person has clearly been saved, and within hours of his death. So demonstrate how 2 resurrections apply to this person. Demonstrate how Romans 6 is applied to him the same way it is being applied to others who are still physically alive and are not having physical death staring them in the face at the time.

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Demonstrate how this also applies to the thief on the cross.
 
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shilohsfoal

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I asked some questions in another thread and received the following correct replies:

1. Would humans be able to be with God in heaven if they are not in Christ?

No, you must be born again to see or enter the Kingdom of God.

2. Do humans have to be born of the Spirit to be in Christ?

Yes.

SCRIPTURES RELATING TO THE RESURRECTION

1 Cor 15
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit (aparche), and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;

The above is referring to a bodily resurrection. Let's see if we can ascertain if any of the verses below are referring to a spiritual resurrection:

(A) BODILY RESURRECTION

John 6:40 (words of Christ): And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes on Him should have everlasting life. And I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Cor 6:14 And God has both raised up the Lord, and also will raise us up by His own power.

NOTE 1:

There is no New Testament verse where the Greek word anastasis (resurrection) is talking about anything other than the bodily resurrection of the dead. See for example:-

Mat 22:23; Mark 12:18; Luk 2:34; Luk 20:27; John 5:29; Acts:- 4:2; 17:18; 17:32; 23:8; 24:15; 2 Tim 2:18).

NOTE 2:

Likewise, there is no New Testament verse speaking about being raised up from death that is not speaking of being raised up bodily - they all refer to the bodily resurrection from the dead, example:-

Matthew:- 11:5; 16:21; 17:23; Mark:- 6:14; 14;28; Luke:- 7:22; 9:22; 20:37; John:- 12:1 & 9 & 17; Acts:- 2:24 & 32; 3:15 & 26; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30 & 34 & 37; Romans:- 4:24 & 25; 6:4 &9; 7:4; 8:11 & 34; 10:9; 1 Cor 6:14; 1 Cor 15:12-17 & 29 & 32 & 35 & 42-44 & 52-54; Gal 1:1; 1 Thess 1:10; 2 Tim 2:8; 1 Pet 1:21; Rev 1:18.

Romans 8
10 and if Christ is in you, the body, indeed, is dead because of sin, and the Spirit is life because of righteousness,
11 But if the Spirit of the One who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the One who raised up Christ from the dead shall also make your mortal bodies alive by His Spirit who dwells in you.

CHRIST'S RESURRECTION:

Rom 4:22 And therefore (Abraham's faith) was imputed to Abraham for righteousness.
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised (egeiro) up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised (egeiro) again for our justification.

As we can see, the bodily resurrection from the dead is a major theme in the New Testament, and is a major part of the gospel.

(B) BEING BORN FROM ABOVE

John 3:3 KJV
Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again (Greek: anothen), he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Strongs: G509
00509 G509 ἄνωθεν anōthen an'-o-then
From G507; from above; by analogy from the first; by implication anew: - from above again from the beginning (very first) the top.


JOhn 3:3 Young's Literal Translation
Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'

John 3:5-7 (Young's Literal Translation)

Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;

that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.

Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;


Compare the above with John's statement below:

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name,
John 1:13 who were born, not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.

CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS BASED ON THE ABOVE FACTS
(you can answer them if you like but I'm not demanding you do - I'm placing them here for consideration):-

1. Have we risen from the dead bodily?

2. Does being born from above imply birth, or bodily resurrection from death?

3. Did we die for the sins of the world and rise again from the dead? Or did Christ die for the sins of the world (and our sins) and rise again from the dead?

4. If we are born from above by the Spirit, and the Spirit is Christ's Spirit, are we IN HIM who died and rose again from the dead by virtue of our birth?

5. Are we in Christ who died for our sins and rose from the dead positionally by virtue of our having been born of His Spirit and by virtue of His bodily resurrection?

Or is it by virtue of our resurrection?

6. Are those who are born from above and found in Christ found IN HIM due to their works?

Or are they born from above and found in Christ because of Christ's works?

7. Did Christ rise again from the dead spiritually, or did He rise again from the dead bodily?

8. Remember that we are told, regarding the resurrection:

Rom 6:3 Do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father; even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been joined together in the likeness of His death, we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection;

1 Cor 15
20 And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead--the first-fruits (aparche) of those sleeping he became,
for since through man is the death, also through man is a rising again (anastasis, resurrection) of the dead,
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit (aparche), and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;

Therefore, bearing in mind that the Greek word anastasis (resurrection) and the concept of being raised from death in the New Testament is always talking about the BODILY resurrection, does the following mean that we are resurrected already?:-

Eph 2:6 and has raised us up together and made us sit together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,

Col 2:12 buried with Him in baptism, in whom also you were raised through the faith of the working of God, raising Him from the dead.

Col 3:1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God.

9. Does Eph 2:6 and Col 3:1 mean that we are already resurrected?

Or does it mean that we are not yet resurrected, but we are POSITIONALLY in Christ who is risen?

10. When in time does Paul say we will be resurrected?

11. Does being born from above mean we are resurrected?

AM I WRONG to say the following?

From all that the New Testament says regarding the resurrection, am I wrong to say that:-

1. NOWHERE in the New Testament do we see being born again from above by the Spirit of Christ being called a "resurrection" - we HAVE TO read such a notion INTO the scriptures in order to maintain that belief.

2. By virtue of our birth from above we are found IN CHRIST who died and was raised, and therefore we are now positionally with Him and have been raised with Him - THIS FACT is the guarantee, the deposit, of our coming inheritance in Christ, and our resurrection:

Rom 8:23 And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the firstfruit of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, awaiting adoption, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen is not hope; for what anyone sees, why does he also hope for it?

3. By virtue of our birth from above we are NOW positionally in Christ's death and resurrection because for those who have been born from above by the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Christ lives in our spirit, and our spirit lives in our soul, and our soul lives in our body. This is why we cannot die:

John 11: 25 Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live.
John 11:26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?

NOT THE HOUSE THAT JACK BUILT BUT THE HOUSE THAT GOD BUILT

Christ in us and we in Him (John 15:4). God's Spirit in our spirit, our spirit in our soul and our soul in our body

- but this is not the house that Jack built - it's the house that God built:

1 Cor 3:16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
1Cor 3:17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God shall destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which you are.

Therefore we live in the knowledge that because of Christ's resurrection (which is a bodily resurrection), THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN BORN FROM ABOVE will be bodily resurrected when Christ returns - but those who have died in Christ will rise first and those who are still alive will be changed and rise up together with them, to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess 4:16-18).

AM I WRONG TO CONCLUDE THE FOLLOWING:

1. Due to the fact that NOWHERE does the New Testament call being born from above either a "resurrection", nor "the first Resurrection", those who read "first resurrection" into a birth of the Spirit from above, are reading INTO the New Testament what is not there?

2. The scriptures show, when using exegesis instead of eisegesis, that the first (protos) resurrection following Christ's, who is the firsfruit (aparche) of the resurrection, is this one:

1 Cor 15
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit (aparche), and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;

and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.

This is the first (protos) resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years. (Rev 20:3-6).

You are correct on all counts as I see. No where in scripture is receiving the holy spirit or being born of the spirit the same as bejng resurrected from the dead. The resurrection is a whole new ballgame that none of us here has played.

1 Corinthians 13:12 Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Paul admitted he did not know everything even though he spent much time studying what the prophets before him wrote. But those prophets were only sent to Israel to testify and spoke of one resurrection. But John was given a clearer picture of the future consisting of two resurrections. One of which had been spoken of by the prophets and another later.
The reason Paul, Peter and others never mentioned two resurrections is because they didn't know about the second. That Revelation was not shared with them.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Concerning spiritual resurrection. You are more wrong than right. Prior to salvation, we were never alive spiritually! All of mankind is born dichotomous, that is only with a body and soul. We are spiritually born dead. When we are born again- it is not called a resurrection, but a new birth or being made a new creature and that is when we are trichotomous, body, soul and spirit! So there really is no spiritual resurrection.

It is both! These are 2 similar analogies used to impress the miracle of new life. How else are we translated from death to life spiritually?
 
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sovereigngrace

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You are correct on all counts as I see. No where in scripture is receiving the holy spirit or being born of the spirit the same as bejng resurrected from the dead. The resurrection is a whole new ballgame that none of us here has played.

Your conflict is with the inspired text. Please read it above. It refutes your opinion.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Here you go. This person has clearly been saved, and within hours of his death. So demonstrate how 2 resurrections apply to this person. Demonstrate how Romans 6 is applied to him the same way it is being applied to others who are still physically alive and are not having physical death staring them in the face at the time.

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Demonstrate how this also applies to the thief on the cross.

When he was saved, he was raised from the grave of his sin unto spiritual life. As a result of that: death has no hold on him. He now enters the presence of God to reign with Christ when he gives up the ghost. He will then experience the last aspect of redemption when his body is physically raised at the general resurrection at the climactic return of Christ to judge the living and the dead and introduce perfection and eternity.
 
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Zao is life

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It is both! These are 2 similar analogies used to impress the miracle of new life. How else are we translated from death to life spiritually?
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(John 3:6, words of Jesus Christ).

Read it to yourself over and over and over and over until the veil lifts from your eyes.
 
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grafted branch

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Matthew 27:51-53 is referring to a bodily resurrection and it's not calling it a "spiritual" resurrection. The point is that in all the New Testament, there is no such thing as a "spiritual" resurrection either stated or implied. It's a bodily resurrection. The new birth is not a "resurrection". It's a spiritual birth.

Regardless of whether the first resurrection is spiritual or physical, would you agree then that the first resurrection has already occurred?
 
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sovereigngrace

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Please explain how Christ's bodily resurrection which is being referred to in the above verse, equates to our spiritual birth when we are born again by the Spirit.

.. and stop playing games by side-stepping the issue.

Firstborn from the dead - the verses you quote below refer to Christ's bodily resurrection and do not equate to our new birth when we are born of the Spirit from above.

Stop playing games and side-stepping the issue:



You have no evidence that the verses which are talking only about either Christ's bodily resurrection or the bodily resurrection of those found in Him or both, are equating spiritual birth from above with the bodily resurrection that ALL these verses are talking about, and you have utterly failed, till now, to provide evidence that Revelation 20:6 is not speaking of the first resurrection of the saints following the return of Christ and following the time of Christ's resurrection.

The verses you quote are also referring to a bodily resurrection - not to a born-again experience.

And since you have utterly failed to provide any evidence till now, you have shown that you cannot. It's simply what you have read into the scriptures which talk about the resurrection from the dead - your eisegesis.

The Greek for “that hath part” is echo méros. The Greek verb echo correctly interpreted “that hath” in the King James Version is written in the present tense and in the active voice. Therefore, we can view the relevance and vitality of “the first resurrection” as being both current and ongoing. Christ’s victory over death is not simply a past event that has no active bearing upon what we are today; it is ongoing reality in the lives of God’s people. The Greek word translated “part” in the text is the word meros meaning share, allotment or portion. This reading tells us that all those that have come to the joy of saving faith in Christ have become partakers in the resurrection life, and through this will escape the horrors of the second death – eternal wrath.

This passage is describing the reality and result of our mystical union with Christ. The expression “in Christ” [Gr. en Christo] is found 216 times in the New Testament and refers to our federal and covenantal standing. It shows us that our spiritual status is totally derived from and dependent upon relationship with Christ.

Aorist Tense

The aorist is said to be "simple occurrence" or "summary occurrence", without regard for the amount of time taken to accomplish the action. This tense is also often referred to as the 'punctiliar' tense. 'Punctiliar' in this sense means 'viewed as a single, collective whole,' a "one-point-in-time" action, although it may actually take place over a period of time.

This matter is absolutely crucial to understanding Revelation 20 and conclusively damning for the Premil doctrine. That is why Premils duck round it.

When we get saved we become one with Jesus Christ spiritually. We identify with Christ and the victory He won over sin, death and the grave. As He died, was buried and conquered death, we also have our “part” in His success.

This is supported by Revelation 2:11, which similarly says: “He that overcometh (present active particle) shall not be hurt of the second death.”

The word "overcometh" here is actually written in the present active particle meaning it relates to the here-and-now. It is an experience that is realized in life. When you have "eth" in the KJV it means it is a present reality.

Anything that we are, or anything that we possess, that is of any spiritual worth, emanates solely from what Christ has done for us and how we partake in that, “For in him we live, and move, and have our being” (Acts 17:28). The fact is, “we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones” (Ephesians 5:30). This is indeed a deep spiritual mystery. Christ is our representative head who has obtained victory over sin, death, condemnation, guilt, fear, Satan and every other enemy of our soul. Romans 11:36 says, “For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever.”

Hebrews 3:14 records of those that are saved, “we are made partakers of Christ.” Peter says of us now, that we are “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4).

We cannot comprehend the authority of the child of God outside of this spiritual union, because without this oneness we are powerless. Christ is our representative head who has obtained victory over sin, death, condemnation, guilt fear, Satan and every other enemy of our soul. We reign because He reigns. We exercise authority because He exercises authority, at the right hand of majesty on high.

Romans 5:18-19 says, “as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”

The awful “condemnation” that afflicts every man since the fall through inherited sin is completely removed “in Christ” through the new birth experience. Through salvation the penitent is fully justified and “made righteous” in the eyes of God. He is taken instantly from spiritual death into spiritual life by being raised from a horrible spiritual grave.

Romans 6:4 says, “we are buried with him by baptism into death.”

Colossians 2:12 agrees, saying, we are “Buried with him in baptism.”

Romans 6:4 says, “like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

Colossians 2:12 again concurs, saying, ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”

The new birth that results, which is described in Romans 6:4 as a “newness of life,” is expressly associated with, and likened to, the resurrection of Christ. The old man dies and the new man rises in supernatural resurrection power. The exact wording reads, “like (or) hoósper (or) ‘exactly like’ as Christ was raised up from the dead … hoútoos (or) ‘in like manner’ (or) ‘on this fashion’ we also should walk in newness of life.”
 
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sovereigngrace

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Regardless of whether the first resurrection is spiritual or physical, would you agree then that the first resurrection has already occurred?

Of course! We have our part or portion in His "first resurrection" through salvation. That gives us victory over eternal punishment - "the second death." In salvation we identify with Christ in His life, death and resurrection. We come into spiritual union with Him, and become joint-heirs to His eternal inheritance.
 
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Zao is life

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Regardless of whether the first resurrection is spiritual or physical, would you agree then that the first resurrection has already occurred?
The words resurrection and references to being raised from death in ALL the verses talking about Christ's resurrection from the dead and about the resurrection of those who believe in Him are speaking only about the bodily resurrection.

JESUS told us we had to be born from above spiritually in order to see or enter the Kingdom of heaven - He did not say we needed to be "resurrected", nor did HE call it "the first resurrection" - and neither does any New Testament verse talking about being raised (egeiro) from the dead or resurrection (anastasis) from death.
 
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sovereigngrace

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That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(John 3:6, words of Jesus Christ).

Read it to yourself over and over and over and over until the veil lifts from your eyes.

I understand it is frustrating fighting with Scripture, but keep your insults to yourself.
 
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Zao is life

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Of course! We have our part or portion in His "first resurrection" through salvation. That gives us victory over eternal punishment - "the second death." In salvation we identify with Christ in His life, death and resurrection. We come into spiritual union with Him, and become joint-heirs to His eternal inheritance.
Nope.

The words resurrection and references to being raised from death in ALL the verses talking about Christ's resurrection from the dead and about the resurrection of those who believe in Him are speaking only about the bodily resurrection.

JESUS told us we had to be born from above (spiritually) in order to see or enter the Kingdom of heaven - He did not say we needed to be "resurrected", nor did HE call it "the first resurrection" - and neither does any New Testament verse talking about being raised (egeiro) from the dead or resurrection (anastasis) from death.
 
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Zao is life

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The Greek for “that hath part” is echo méros. The Greek verb echo correctly interpreted “that hath” in the King James Version is written in the present tense and in the active voice. Therefore, we can view the relevance and vitality of “the first resurrection” as being both current and ongoing. Christ’s victory over death is not simply a past event that has no active bearing upon what we are today; it is ongoing reality in the lives of God’s people. The Greek word translated “part” in the text is the word meros meaning share, allotment or portion. This reading tells us that all those that have come to the joy of saving faith in Christ have become partakers in the resurrection life, and through this will escape the horrors of the second death – eternal wrath.

This passage is describing the reality and result of our mystical union with Christ. The expression “in Christ” [Gr. en Christo] is found 216 times in the New Testament and refers to our federal and covenantal standing. It shows us that our spiritual status is totally derived from and dependent upon relationship with Christ.

Aorist Tense

The aorist is said to be "simple occurrence" or "summary occurrence", without regard for the amount of time taken to accomplish the action. This tense is also often referred to as the 'punctiliar' tense. 'Punctiliar' in this sense means 'viewed as a single, collective whole,' a "one-point-in-time" action, although it may actually take place over a period of time.

This matter is absolutely crucial to understanding Revelation 20 and conclusively damning for the Premil doctrine. That is why Premils duck round it.

When we get saved we become one with Jesus Christ spiritually. We identify with Christ and the victory He won over sin, death and the grave. As He died, was buried and conquered death, we also have our “part” in His success.

This is supported by Revelation 2:11, which similarly says: “He that overcometh (present active particle) shall not be hurt of the second death.”

The word "overcometh" here is actually written in the present active particle meaning it relates to the here-and-now. It is an experience that is realized in life. When you have "eth" in the KJV it means it is a present reality.

Anything that we are, or anything that we possess, that is of any spiritual worth, emanates solely from what Christ has done for us and how we partake in that, “For in him we live, and move, and have our being” (Acts 17:28). The fact is, “we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones” (Ephesians 5:30). This is indeed a deep spiritual mystery. Christ is our representative head who has obtained victory over sin, death, condemnation, guilt, fear, Satan and every other enemy of our soul. Romans 11:36 says, “For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever.”

Hebrews 3:14 records of those that are saved, “we are made partakers of Christ.” Peter says of us now, that we are “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4).

We cannot comprehend the authority of the child of God outside of this spiritual union, because without this oneness we are powerless. Christ is our representative head who has obtained victory over sin, death, condemnation, guilt fear, Satan and every other enemy of our soul. We reign because He reigns. We exercise authority because He exercises authority, at the right hand of majesty on high.

Romans 5:18-19 says, “as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”

The awful “condemnation” that afflicts every man since the fall through inherited sin is completely removed “in Christ” through the new birth experience. Through salvation the penitent is fully justified and “made righteous” in the eyes of God. He is taken instantly from spiritual death into spiritual life by being raised from a horrible spiritual grave.

Romans 6:4 says, “we are buried with him by baptism into death.”

Colossians 2:12 agrees, saying, we are “Buried with him in baptism.”

Romans 6:4 says, “like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

Colossians 2:12 again concurs, saying, ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”

The new birth that results, which is described in Romans 6:4 as a “newness of life,” is expressly associated with, and likened to, the resurrection of Christ. The old man dies and the new man rises in supernatural resurrection power. The exact wording reads, “like (or) hoósper (or) ‘exactly like’ as Christ was raised up from the dead … hoútoos (or) ‘in like manner’ (or) ‘on this fashion’ we also should walk in newness of life.”
You keep side-stepping the fact that the words resurrection and references to being raised from death in ALL the verses talking about Christ's resurrection from the dead and about the resurrection of those who believe in Him are speaking only about the bodily resurrection, as well as the fact that JESUS told us we had to be born from above (spiritually) in order to see or enter the Kingdom of heaven - He did not say we needed to be "resurrected", nor did HE call it "the first resurrection" - and neither does any New Testament verse talking about being raised (egeiro) from the dead or resurrection (anastasis) from death.
 
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sovereigngrace

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The words resurrection and references to being raised from death in ALL the verses talking about Christ's resurrection from the dead and about the resurrection of those who believe in Him are speaking only about the bodily resurrection.

JESUS told us we had to be born from above spiritually in order to see or enter the Kingdom of heaven - He did not say we needed to be "resurrected", nor did HE call it "the first resurrection" - and neither does any New Testament verse talking about being raised (egeiro) from the dead or resurrection (anastasis) from death.

In your theology, Jesus resurrection is ignored/overlooked as if it did not happen. You make man's resurrection the first, rather than Christ's. This is ridiculous, unscriptural and wrong. This is what Premil produces.

While Amils present countless Scriptures to corroborate their position, Premil has nothing. Notably, you cannot even address a basic question to support for your private opinion of Rev 20.

What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there are two distinct physical resurrection days (the first for the righteous, the second for the wicked) separated by a literal 1000 years+?

Your silence is deafening!
 
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