Spurgeons most controversial statement ever.

Neostarwcc · Jun 21, 2020

For those of you who dont know who Charles Spurgeon is, he was one of the greatest minds and Pastors who ever lived. Even people who didnt subscribe to Reformed theology loved his great mind and ferocity when he preached back in the mid-late 19th century.

I wanted to talk about Spurgeon because I wanted to talk about his most controversial statement ever. It was controversial when he said it and it's still highly controversial today. Thats his famous statement that since there was such a vast multitude of people in the book of life (See Genesis 15:5, Revelation 7:9) that he believed there are going to end up being more people in Heaven than in Hell.

So was Spurgeon right? Are the multitude of people really so vast that it could even surpass our wildest dreams?

I say perhaps. I mean after all, Reformed theology (and Protestant theology in general) is growing at a now alarming rate. Nearly one tenth of today's global Protestants are in fact, Reformed. Not that Reformed theology or Protestantism saves I'm not trying to claim that. Salvation is purely a work of God and God's sheep come from all across the globe. I'm just saying that more and more people are accepting the gospel and are ever evolving on the right interpretations of scripture than ever before in history. Either the five points of Calvinism or the five points of Arminianism are the dominating theologies of Protestantism today. More and more Christian's are accepting the five Solas whether they identify as Protestant or not. Things are just growing at such an alarming rate that its unbelievable.

So yes, it's possible that one of the greatest minds of all time could be right. There could be more people in heaven than in hell. But it will always be speculatory as it is impossible to completely know for sure until we get there. But, what do you think?

Of the Kingdom · Jun 21, 2020

Mostly I think we ought not have any confidence in our ability to predict who will be in heaven and who will not. God may know that one per cent or ninety nine per cent of all people will be saved, no harm or foul either way.

I'm not familiar with that particular sermon; I hope Charles Spurgeon did not claim to have the answer, but merely that it could be possible and that we should hope for as many as could to be saved.

friend of · Jun 21, 2020

I'm aware of Spurgeon and I even heard the sermon which he preached that controversial statement on YT. I forget what it was called. Basically Spurgeon said that the devil and hell would mock Christ if more were turned out for damnation than salvation. I believe spurgeon is correct. I would like nothing more than to believe God will save more than he will damn. That seems to be in line with His justice. We also dont really know how we will all be judged. Perhaps there will be unexpected mercy for many on that great day of judgement. I would like nothing more than to believe as such.

Halbhh · Jun 21, 2020

Neostarwcc said:
For those of you who dont know who Charles Spurgeon is, he was one of the greatest minds and Pastors who ever lived. Even people who didnt subscribe to Reformed theology loved his great mind and ferocity when he preached back in the mid-late 19th century.

I wanted to talk about Spurgeon because I wanted to talk about his most controversial statement ever. It was controversial when he said it and it's still highly controversial today. Thats his famous statement that since there was such a vast multitude of people in the book of life (See Genesis 15:5, Revelation 7:9) that he believed there are going to end up being more people in Heaven than in Hell.

So was Spurgeon right? Are the multitude of people really so vast that it could even surpass our wildest dreams?

I say perhaps. I mean after all, Reformed theology (and Protestant theology in general) is growing at a now alarming rate. Nearly one tenth of today's global Protestants are in fact, Reformed. Not that Reformed theology or Protestantism saves I'm not trying to claim that. Salvation is purely a work of God and God's sheep come from all across the globe. I'm just saying that more and more people are accepting the gospel and are ever evolving on the right interpretations of scripture than ever before in history. Either the five points of Calvinism or the five points of Arminianism are the dominating theologies of Protestantism today. More and more Christian's are accepting the five Solas whether they identify as Protestant or not. Things are just growing at such an alarming rate that its unbelievable.

So yes, it's possible that one of the greatest minds of all time could be right. There could be more people in heaven than in hell. But it will always be speculatory as it is impossible to completely know for sure until we get there. But, what do you think?

In this speculative idea, we have better (best!) the words from Christ in Matthew 7:12-14, and learn there that a majority isn't possible.

Of the Kingdom · Jun 21, 2020

In Mark 10, we learn that the way is so narrow that no one can be saved. But for the grace of God, heaven would be empty.

Mark 10:26 They were exceedingly astonished, saying to him, “Then who can be saved?”
Mark 10:27 Jesus, looking at them, said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God, for all things are possible with God.”

bekkilyn · Jun 21, 2020

I believe that anyone who chooses to be with God will be with him, and any existence of "hell" (however we might define it) is to allow for our free will (*gasp*) in making such a choice.

messianist · Jun 21, 2020

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Paul4JC · Jun 21, 2020

Totally different time he lived in. He didn't know of what the world would be like today. Well let's see what God does.

I think the text basis is Col 1:18

Neostarwcc · Jun 22, 2020

Halbhh said:
In this speculative idea, we have better (best!) the words from Christ in Matthew 7:12-14, and learn there that a majority isn't possible.

Question. How can it be speculative when God said a vast multitude and John saw a vast multitude? Yes, few find the narrow gate to life but the actual number of people that do are incountable. I believe Jesus said the way is narrow because he is narrow. Lifelong faith in him without being unhardens by God is impossible.

You can count millions of people itd take a long time but it's possible. But several billion? Tens of billions? Hundreds of billions? God never says the exact number of saved but at what point does a number of people become impossible to count?

Compare that incountable number to the number of people who have lived over the course of this planets 6,000 ish year history and it could be possible.

Neostarwcc · Jun 22, 2020

Paul4JC said:
Totally different time he lived in. He didn't know of what the world would be like today. Well let's see what God does.

I think the text basis is Col 1:18

Yes, there is more violence today then there was during the time of Spurgeon. I know you cant take the number of Protestants and Catholics "claiming" faith. But let's say half of the professing Christians today are actually true Christians. There are approximately 1 billion Protestants in the world today (so let's say 500 million are actually saved Christians) And 2.5 billion Christians total (so let's lower that to 1 billion for the sake of argument and easy math.) So that means today there are 1.5 billion Christians in the world. There are 7.59 billion people that live in the world as of a 2018 census. So that means approximately 1 in 5 people who live in the world today are actually Christians and Christianity is growing more each and everyday. The Bible is the most read and sold more copies than any other book ever.

Idk it's hard mind boggling math but if 1 in 5 Christian's are saved today and it increases to 1 in 4 it might be a possibility. Especially due to how many believers existed in the past when a majority of the known world believed. Just read the book of Acts and how many people the Apostles saved, or read the gospels and look at how many Christ saved. Just... loads of people.

Paul succeeded in spreading the gospel literally all around the known world at that time.

Victor in Christ · Jun 22, 2020

Spurgeon was a mighty preacher and i use his daily devotional 'Cheque Book of the bank of faith - journal edition' that was given to me by a dear Christian friend.

Revelations 7:9 is a mighty verse in Scripture. 'a great multitude, which no man could number'. How will i ever know if there will be more people in Heaven than in hell? I can't tell, unless the scripture shows me there will be.

Has Spurgeon found that passage of scripture or did he have a foreknowledge, an assurance from the Lord that when Christ's work on the cross for our Salvation and his ascension to heaven was done, Satan's power is declining leading to his ultimate destruction..

Makes you think how precious life is and how important it is to protest against abortion, war, violence and advocate Love. Agape love.

Victor in Christ · Jun 22, 2020

Halbhh said:
In this speculative idea, we have better (best!) the words from Christ in Matthew 7:12-14, and learn there that a majority isn't possible.

The bible I'm using, has a commentary on Matthew 7:12-20 which is enlightening.

v 12 The Golden rule, as this saying is commonly known, is not unique to Jesus or Christianity, for it is found in most religions on some form. In Judaism, it is found in the negative form. One ancient Jewish rabbi, Rabbi Hillel, summarized it as follows; "What is hateful to yourself, do to no other." The Christian form as given by Jesus is, however, more positive and powerful than the negative form, which does not deny the good intention of the negative form. This proverbial saying is simply another way of expressing the fundamental Kingdom ethic of loving one another. The Golden rule, expressing the law of love, is what the law and the prophets were all about.

13-20 this section addresses the problem of false teachers and commitment to the teachings of Jesus. We are again introduced to the Jewish idiom of two opposing ways - here, one way is narrow, the other way broad. The narrow way is the more difficult. Jesus knows that the road ahead for the disciples will entail opposition and even serious persecution. Faced by such difficulties, disciples will be tempted to choose the easier way, perhaps that of retaining their Jewish religion based on law rather than following God in freedom.

Halbhh · Jun 22, 2020

Neostarwcc said:
Question. How can it be speculative when God said a vast multitude and John saw a vast multitude? Yes, few find the narrow gate to life but the actual number of people that do are incountable. I believe Jesus said the way is narrow because he is narrow. Lifelong faith in him without being unhardens by God is impossible.

You can count millions of people itd take a long time but it's possible. But several billion? Tens of billions? Hundreds of billions? God never says the exact number of saved but at what point does a number of people become impossible to count?

Compare that incountable number to the number of people who have lived over the course of this planets 6,000 ish year history and it could be possible.

Ever looked at one of those really large crowds of close to a million people in some march? It's so many really. Even just a tiny poriton out of of dozens of billions of people can be a great multitude. Even just 10 million is a vast multitude, yes?

But 10 million is only the slightest sliver out of 50 billion, for example. 10 million is only 0.0002 times 50 billion -- 2/10ths of 1%. 10 million would be a very small few of all humans that have lived, while also a vast multitude. So also would 100 million, or a billion, be also only "few" yet a vast number.

Halbhh · Jun 22, 2020

Victor in Christ said:
The bible I'm using, has a commentary on Matthew 7:12-20 which is enlightening.

v 12 The Golden rule, as this saying is commonly known, is not unique to Jesus or Christianity, for it is found in most religions on some form. In Judaism, it is found in the negative form. One ancient Jewish rabbi, Rabbi Hillel, summarized it as follows; "What is hateful to yourself, do to no other." The Christian form as given by Jesus is, however, more positive and powerful than the negative form, which does not deny the good intention of the negative form. This proverbial saying is simply another way of expressing the fundamental Kingdom ethic of loving one another. The Golden rule, expressing the law of love, is what the law and the prophets were all about.

13-20 this section addresses the problem of false teachers and commitment to the teachings of Jesus. We are again introduced to the Jewish idiom of two opposing ways - here, one way is narrow, the other way broad. The narrow way is the more difficult. Jesus knows that the road ahead for the disciples will entail opposition and even serious persecution. Faced by such difficulties, disciples will be tempted to choose the easier way, perhaps that of retaining their Jewish religion based on law rather than following God in freedom.

While commentaries often fall short of what we can learn from just listening, that was largely correct I think, though still, as all others, less than complete (as every commentary must be), because this summary of all the law isn't only about 1 major challenge in one era, but about all of life for all time, entirely. I think it's very apropos that verse 13 and 14 follow immediately on verse 12. They form a passage really, because verse 12 is for all of time. Doing the full positive action form of the golden rule, as Christ gave us, is not hard most of the time...but sometimes it's far harder to do, such as at moments when we are attacked for instance, if we try to do it without Him. But with Him, we can do all things.

Praise the Lord!

Broken Fence · Jun 22, 2020

Many are called, but few are chosen. The true test of your faith is just beginning. The time will come when you will have to choose. Martyred for Christ or the microchip, if you choose microchip, you accept the beast. I know how crazy that sounds. That is where we are nonetheless. I pray God helps His people stand strong. We are at a tipping point on the world stage. If America falls to globalism and surrenders soveignity, the world will fall to the beast. God bless, help us to stand against the beast and the rise of the antichrist. In Jesus's name. Amen.

Halbhh · Jun 22, 2020

Broken Fence said:
Many are called, but few are chosen. The true test of your faith is just beginning. The time will come when you will have to choose. Martyred for Christ or the microchip, if you choose microchip, you accept the beast. I know how crazy that sounds. That is where we are nonetheless. I pray God helps His people stand strong. We are at a tipping point on the world stage. If America falls to globalism and surrenders soveignity, the world will fall to the beast. God bless, help us to stand against the beast and the rise of the antichrist. In Jesus's name. Amen.

God is in control of those big picture key things. It will all happen according to the prophecies He has caused to be revealed to us, though they intentionally cannot be easily understood in all ways ahead of time I think. But the general flow of events in Revelation will happen nevertheless as foretold, even if we only partly understand. The world will not fall except in the way and time God has determined that it will, and then it will, as He has determined -- He has control over such key things, not us. Nothing we can do will somehow prevent events in Revelation. We can't ourselves somehow save the temporary nation called 'America' from the ultimate progression of those events. We can only individually hold to Him and His words, to endure and make it.

rhern · Jun 22, 2020

Neostarwcc said:
For those of you who dont know who Charles Spurgeon is, he was one of the greatest minds and Pastors who ever lived. Even people who didnt subscribe to Reformed theology loved his great mind and ferocity when he preached back in the mid-late 19th century.

I wanted to talk about Spurgeon because I wanted to talk about his most controversial statement ever. It was controversial when he said it and it's still highly controversial today. Thats his famous statement that since there was such a vast multitude of people in the book of life (See Genesis 15:5, Revelation 7:9) that he believed there are going to end up being more people in Heaven than in Hell.

So was Spurgeon right? Are the multitude of people really so vast that it could even surpass our wildest dreams?

I say perhaps. I mean after all, Reformed theology (and Protestant theology in general) is growing at a now alarming rate. Nearly one tenth of today's global Protestants are in fact, Reformed. Not that Reformed theology or Protestantism saves I'm not trying to claim that. Salvation is purely a work of God and God's sheep come from all across the globe. I'm just saying that more and more people are accepting the gospel and are ever evolving on the right interpretations of scripture than ever before in history. Either the five points of Calvinism or the five points of Arminianism are the dominating theologies of Protestantism today. More and more Christian's are accepting the five Solas whether they identify as Protestant or not. Things are just growing at such an alarming rate that its unbelievable.

So yes, it's possible that one of the greatest minds of all time could be right. There could be more people in heaven than in hell. But it will always be speculatory as it is impossible to completely know for sure until we get there. But, what do you think?

Matthew 7: (KJV)
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Victor in Christ · Jun 22, 2020

rhern said:
Matthew 7: (KJV)
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Does this have any relationship with the first tabernacle where the offerings made for atonement for sin were placed before the opening/door of the outer court? In NT language there's no other way to salvation for sin than to enter through Christ's opening/door.

rhern · Jun 22, 2020

Victor in Christ said:
Does this have any relationship with the first tabernacle where the offerings made for atonement for sin were placed before the opening/door of the outer court? In NT language there's no other way to salvation for sin than to enter through Christ's opening/door.

The wide gate is the way to destruction.
But the narrow gate is the way to eternal life
in order to find it you have to diligently search for it.

This is a representation of the Judgement where people will be separated as sheep and goats.
The sheep enter eternal life but the goats are cast into eternal damnation, the lake of fire which burns for ever and ever yet the body is not consumed.

The first tabernacle was a shadow of things to come. They sacrificed bulls and goat.
This atonement commanded by God was a temporary covering for sin which was repeated every year.
By Jesus Christ shedding His Blood became the Perfect Sacrifice for all times. His death burial and resurrection to rise and be at the right hand of the Father is The Gospel of Salvation from God's wrath.
By believing in this Gospel you will be saved.

1 Corinthians 3 (KJV)
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1213 · Jun 23, 2020

Neostarwcc said:
... But, what do you think?

I hope many will find life, but unfortunately:

Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it. How narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it.
Matt. 7:13-14

Spurgeons most controversial statement ever.

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We are saved purely by the work and grace of God.

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