- Nov 29, 2011
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That's a decision one has to make. The debt has been paid regardless.
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Who are the sheep in John 10?
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That's a decision one has to make. The debt has been paid regardless.
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Jesus does not save anyone then. He only makes it possible for people to save themselves = self-righteousness.
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- Aug 21, 2003
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Good Day, Peter
Um no Jesus died to secure eternal life for his people he redeems them for real ( have)though His blood.
Potential redemption is NOT redemption, the Kinsman redeemer always pays the price for the freedom of the slave...
If the son shall set you free you are free indeed... That is real freedom
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
You assume that His people, or in this cause His sheep are only Jews... you have no basis for such assumption. He lays down His life for His sheep.
Just to remind you my Brother, I am not a member of the Roman church so I do not share their flawed view of Salvation, or the Gospel
In Him
Bill
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- Nov 29, 2011
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If that's your interpretation then you should re-read what the Bible says about it.
Jesus' sacrifice paid the price for all sin by everyone. If a debt has been paid then it no longer exists. Whether people accept that or not has no bearing on the fact.
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- Aug 21, 2003
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Good Day, Pescador
To whom was the debt owed?
Why does the debt exist?
What is the total price to be paid?
In Him,
Bill
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- Aug 21, 2003
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Good Day, Pescador
You are still asserting the price was paid to the people... it was for the people.. but not to the people.
in Him,
Bill
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- Nov 29, 2011
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The debt was owed to God (the Father) because He demanded that sin be paid for. Although most times it was paid for by the blood of animals, the final payment for all sin was Jesus' blood.
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- Nov 29, 2011
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Your logic is seriously flawed. All are potentially saved; all they have to do is accept the gift.
If I send you a gift and you won't open it that doesn't negate my gift.
Why are you trying to argue against this most fundamental Christian truth? If you're trying to sound clever or intelligent you're having just the opposite effect.
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This reminds me of a conversation we had with a non-Christian once. We asked him if he had been born again and he said that he was half born again. Our response was that if a woman is expecting a baby she cannot be half pregnant and give half birth to her baby.
The problem is the question of efficacy. If, indeed, Jesus Christ has done everything necessary for the salvation of all mankind then all will be saved without any further conditions applied.
If on, the other hand, Jesus Christ has not done everything necessary for the salvation of all mankind, was he either unable or unwilling to do so?
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- Nov 29, 2011
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I'm not sure where you're going with this, or why. You are right when you say, "Jesus Christ has done everything necessary for the salvation of all mankind then all will be saved without any further conditions applied."
All are saved, but they must accept that fact for themselves. It's a two-part action.
Again, if I send you a gift and you throw it away without accepting it whose fault is that?
I won't continue this discussion if all you want to do is argue.
All are saved, but they must accept that fact for themselves. It's a two-part action.
Again, if I send you a gift and you throw it away without accepting it whose fault is that?
I won't continue this discussion if all you want to do is argue.
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You have added a condition for salvation. Jesus Christ has only accomplished a portion of the salvation process and leaves the other portion for people to accomplish. My question is whether He was unable to accomplish complete salvation for all of humanity without any strings attached or whether He was merely unwilling to do so.
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- Dec 13, 2015
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When Jesus refers to his sheep or the elect or to the "overcomers" in the gospels and book of Revelation he means those who God wrote in the book of life from before the foundation of the world. God's very elect. From the book of Genesis to Revelation God had a special group of people in mind to spend eternity with and he had a group of people that he decided to punish. This doesnt make God unjust or unfair because even if God decided to only save one sinner he would have been a kind and merciful God worthy of worship and praise. If he decided to save none and just completely wipe out or punish his creation he would be just. But he decided nothing of the sort. From the very beginning God decided to save a large number of people that no man can count. From across the whole world. As for those God chose to punish theres nothing unfair or unjust about it because we are ALL guilty.
His creation sinned the punishment for sin is death. Therefore all deserve to be punished. It's only due to God's overwhelming grace and mercy that God saved any of us.
His creation sinned the punishment for sin is death. Therefore all deserve to be punished. It's only due to God's overwhelming grace and mercy that God saved any of us.
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Even if that would be just (to save none), would it be love, and would it be merciful?
To expand the question, would it be love and mercy to decide certain individuals from the beginning of time to be punished without any hope of salvation?
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- Dec 13, 2015
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Oh yes. God's love and mercy is shown in the fact that Christ died for us. God willingly sacrificed himself to be with his own people. If that's not love and mercy, I dont know what is. You know when it comes to God choosing the Jews nobody beats an eye or calls anything unfair. If all we had in the Old Testament were promises to save the Kewish people and that's all there was than nobody would blink an eye but when God reveals that his elect extends past the Jews and throughout the whole world people get offended.
God is just, loving, and merciful all at the same time. Nobody knows just exactly how many people are with God right now at this moment. Nobody knows the final number that will be in heaven just that it's a number greater than the stars and a number greater than any man can count from across the whole world! I don't know about you but that shows God's love and mercy to us. Because we were ALL guilty and God set us free! God never abandons or forsakes his people and he loves all of us equally. That is love my friend!
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