Tellyontellyon

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I'm a Buddhist, but I'm curiously drawn to reading the Bible and feel a certain comfort in reading and holding it.
In Buddhism we do have different schools and styles, but for the most part, we respect each others denominations and see them all as valid.

I find Christians seem to have much sharper divisions. I don't really know why because, as an outsider the differences seem slight, and don't warrant a separate church.
But in Christianity we see people from different denominations who won't worship together or even recognise each other as on a true path to heaven.
Are Catholics going to hell? Are protestants going to hell? Lutherans? Baptists? Seventh Day Adventists?
I suspect, if Christianity is true, then you can all go to heaven... and then you will HAVE to get along!

Anyway, a question or two!?

♥ Why?

♥ Is my impression of Christianity way off, or is it as bad as it appears?

♥ How would you change it if you could?
 

maintenance man

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Is my impression of Christianity way off, or is it as bad as it appears?

Is close to as bad as it appears. Of course, all Christians are individuals and denominations to not reflect personal views. Not all Catholics think alike. Not all Baptist think alike. We do all share Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Of course, some will argue about that as well when it comes to certain denominations.

How would you change it if you could?

I would like to see all Christians pointed in the same direction. I'm not sure how that would be accomplished.
 
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Tolworth John

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Are Catholics going to hell? Are protestants going to hell? Lutherans? Baptists? Seventh Day Adventists

Differences can be theological or historical, and it is the theological difference that matter.
 
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-57

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I'm a Buddhist, but I'm curiously drawn to reading the Bible and feel a certain comfort in reading and holding it.
In Buddhism we do have different schools and styles, but for the most part, we respect each others denominations and see them all as valid.

I find Christians seem to have much sharper divisions. I don't really know why because, as an outsider the differences seem slight, and don't warrant a separate church.
But in Christianity we see people from different denominations who won't worship together or even recognise each other as on a true path to heaven.
Are Catholics going to hell? Are protestants going to hell? Lutherans? Baptists? Seventh Day Adventists?
I suspect, if Christianity is true, then you can all go to heaven... and then you will HAVE to get along!

Anyway, a question or two!?

♥ Why?

♥ Is my impression of Christianity way off, or is it as bad as it appears?

♥ How would you change it if you could?

Some "denomination" strip Christ of His divinity and reduce Him to nothing more than a man with a high calling.

Some denominations insist you must earn or merit your way into heaven.

Some denominations don't accept the Trinity.

Some denominations don't accept the physical resurrection of Christ.

.....These theological points (and others) are important as many follow false doctrine and a false Jesus.
 
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salt-n-light

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I'm a Buddhist, but I'm curiously drawn to reading the Bible and feel a certain comfort in reading and holding it.
In Buddhism we do have different schools and styles, but for the most part, we respect each others denominations and see them all as valid.

I find Christians seem to have much sharper divisions. I don't really know why because, as an outsider the differences seem slight, and don't warrant a separate church.
But in Christianity we see people from different denominations who won't worship together or even recognise each other as on a true path to heaven.
Are Catholics going to hell? Are protestants going to hell? Lutherans? Baptists? Seventh Day Adventists?
I suspect, if Christianity is true, then you can all go to heaven... and then you will HAVE to get along!

Anyway, a question or two!?

♥ Why?

♥ Is my impression of Christianity way off, or is it as bad as it appears?

♥ How would you change it if you could?


1.Why do we have different denominations?

We tend to like complicating stuff and build tribes off of a thought leader that agrees with what we envision the church structure to be or to focus on. I call it following commentaries.
Its not a new thing, I would study the letters of Paul in the Bible( Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Philemon, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, Ephesians, Colossians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy and Titus). but especially 1 Corinthians 1, which addresses division in the church. Some follow teaching of certain men, but God's wish is unity. And they is a shell of what the church is made of (some apostles, some teachers, etc), but its all to support and strengthen the discipleship and mission of all of us as one body. Unfortunately, its the pride of men's wisdom that ends up resulting in division.

What determines a Christians is simply one following Christ. That means that they believe in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus sent from God born of Mary, and the receiving of the Holy Spirit which is shown through discipleship of the Word. That's it. That's salvation, through Jesus not based on what we do,wear, etc. Everything else are commentaries. Some people recognize this and its in the message of that denomination, some people don't and you also see it in that denomination.

2.Is your impression way off or as bad.

Historically it is bad, there's a great book called "Protestants", at least on that end, that talks about how different denominations came about and historical influences. Idk about books on Catholicism or Orthodox. But I'm sure they have their own problems.

But at most it has created meaningful discussions and awareness about the history of the Church. It also helps me better understand my understanding of the Church, and things that can be done to bridge unneeded gaps between us as believers.

So its bad, definately not off, but isn't hopeless. For the most part, we do see each other as valid as long as what they are teaching is not against the core belief for a Christian. Someone believing that we should keep the Sabbath doesn't go against anything or if they decide to keep any dietary laws, or wear certain outfits, or highlight certain attributes of the Word. Again as long as they recognize that those things are of commentary and not for salvation, its fine. The rebuttal though is sometimes people are more loyal to the denomination than the gospel, to the point that they do compromise their faith.

3. How would you change it if you could?

I mean, the division is not the fault of the Gospel of Jesus, but the byproduct of living in this world filled with factors outside a church service. People grow up in different cultures, have different experience, and uphold different views on how we should gather, what should we promote, etc. Everyone is responsible for what they harbor in their heart as well as knowing what God stance are on things. That's why i pray everyday, that we all keep our hearts in check with what God said.

But the one thing I think would bring more unity, other than just everyone individually keeping the faith, is learning more on Church History. More promotion of learning not only the Bible but also the formation and transformation of how we gather. Leaders of the church shouldn't only be charity organizations, but also equipped the saints with knowledge and awareness of history. Not just of one's own denomination, but on those outside ourselves to bring more meaningful conversations and not just see those as "others". Alot of times, people just repeat things, but not understand where that understanding may have been sourced from.

That's one thing I appreciate about the forum. That I can talk to people who are open to discuss things outside their way of thinking in cases where I may not have had that much opportunity.
 
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com7fy8

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I'm a Buddhist, but I'm curiously drawn to reading the Bible and feel a certain comfort in reading and holding it.
I would be interested in your sharing what in the Bible has been comforting.

And in considering your post, I see how you could be making a point > how the Bible has been so good for you, yet you see people claiming the Bible as Christians, yet we are not benefitting from God's word because of how we are busy with fighting and fussing on each other's views.

Indeed, I would say a number of us Bible-claiming people could do well to actually read more of what God's word says for us, instead of getting sidetracked with trying to prove and disprove some few in number of ideas that we can spend much time debating. And if ones get into seminary . . . ones then can be there to get even more education for proving and disproving certain ideas . . . and not even know a few more Bible verses by the time we get out!!

And here you are, a Buddhist, and you have invested time in actually reading God's word.

amen :)

But I do think of this, Tellyontellyon > I have become acquainted with the whole Bible. You could name a scripture and I likely could quickly take you to it, or know pretty much where it is. And you could give me any more usual topic, and I could give you scripture about it.

B-u-t > now I would say I have mainly benefitted from how I actually experience how God has me living what He means, and I have people who have been my examples and ones who have helped to deeply correct me so I can find out how to love. I mean, among other things > God's love in me has been my example of how to become kind and caring and tender with compassion and hope for anyone; and while I am doing various things, I keep hearing in my mind things of God's word and correction to help me get more real with God and loving the way the Bible says.

So, the Bible has not been only ideas, for me, and not for me to use to try to self-produce what it says God wants. But God is not distant and impersonal only keeping a record on us and maybe answering a prayer if we use the correct words to ask.
 
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Andrewn

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I find Christians seem to have much sharper divisions. I don't really know why because, as an outsider the differences seem slight, and don't warrant a separate church. But in Christianity we see people from different denominations who won't worship together or even recognise each other as on a true path to heaven. Are Catholics going to hell? Are protestants going to hell? Lutherans? Baptists? Seventh Day Adventists? I suspect, if Christianity is true, then you can all go to heaven... and then you will HAVE to get along!
Your observations are quite correct. The differences between Christian denominations are minor and should be viewed like a smorgasbord to choose from. Unfortunately, many Christians do not view the differences this way. Your impression is right on the money. I wouldn't dare say this in the EO Forum or the RC Forum, however. One time I alluded to the idea in a conversation with a priest and he looked at me like I was from Mars :).

Anyway, a question or two!? ♥ Why? ♥ Is my impression of Christianity way off, or is it as bad as it appears? ♥ How would you change it if you could?
Why: From the early centuries Christians developed the illusion that doctrine is more important than love and that communion can be denied to those with different views. I don't know where they got this from but I suspect it started in order to distinguish themselves from those who regarded Jesus as only as a man and those who regard him as only a spirit from God.

I'd say modern denominationalism is often for financial gain. Fortunately, a lot of denominations now practice "open communion" which is an attitude of acceptance to other Christians. Different churches also help each other in community service. So, if we worship together and serve together then we are one. Ever person can have their own theological opinions.

I'm a Buddhist, but I'm curiously drawn to reading the Bible and feel a certain comfort in reading and holding it.
I suspect this is the case with many atheists / agnostics / buddhists who frequent the CF. They know, unconsciously in their heart, that Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. But they reject Christianity as they understand it.

In Buddhism we do have different schools and styles, but for the most part, we respect each others denominations and see them all as valid.
As an outsider, the way I see Buddhism is not like a religion but like several different religions that share a philosophical core. In the 3rd century, Ãyīnⁱ Mānī did not have a problem mixing Buddhism with Christianity in his religion that became very widespread. Most Westerners are only concerned about the core. Perhaps Christians should learn to be concerned only about the core, which is the Kingdom of God.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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I'm a Buddhist, but I'm curiously drawn to reading the Bible and feel a certain comfort in reading and holding it.
In Buddhism we do have different schools and styles, but for the most part, we respect each others denominations and see them all as valid.

I find Christians seem to have much sharper divisions. I don't really know why because, as an outsider the differences seem slight, and don't warrant a separate church.
But in Christianity we see people from different denominations who won't worship together or even recognise each other as on a true path to heaven.
Are Catholics going to hell? Are protestants going to hell? Lutherans? Baptists? Seventh Day Adventists?
I suspect, if Christianity is true, then you can all go to heaven... and then you will HAVE to get along!

Anyway, a question or two!?
I have fellowshipped and done outreaches with each group you listed.
I see each groups as fellow christians and look forward to being with them in heaven.
How did you get the hearts?
Basically differences are mostly man made and the result of majoring in minors.
I doubt every church has everything perfectly correct. But, All true Christian groups agree on basic major theology like in I Cor 15 and believes Jesus is God.
There are cults or alternative sects that teach false doctrines in the major theology area.
Even thou they call themselves Christian, they really are not.
♥ Is my impression of Christianity way off, or is it as bad as it appears?
True Christianity is based on who Jesus is (God in the flesh) and what he did(dying for our sins). I once visited a church that I did not know was a cult. They got down on me for not wearing a suit. I said, read the book of James hypocritic and left. When I left several people got up and left with me.
♥ How would you change it if you could?

Encourage all Christians to be filled with the Spirit daily, practice agape(God's Love) towards everyone and walk in the Holy Spirit to bear the fruits of the Spirit. I would also encourage everyone to study historical christianity.

The Church I belong too says something like In Major Theology Unity, In Minor Theology Charity. Concerning the day of worship Romans 14 says it is ok for us to worship on any day we feel. Protestants and Catholics simply have different ways of describing grace and salvation. Some make a big deal about how to Baptize, even thou a early church manual called the Didache allows all forms of Baptism based on availability of water. The discussions get passionate because we all have different emphasis in our walk with God.
In short, everyone are just fallible human beings.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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I just googled buddhist wars violence and many pages came up with examples of such among buddhists.

"Buddhists are people, and people are violent. But the fact that Buddhist monks incite violence against Muslims is disturbing to many Westerners — especially to Buddhist practitioners who consider the Buddha’s teaching to be completely non-violent. Many of us struggle with how to understand the violence encouraged by nationalistic Buddhist narratives found in Myanmar, Thailand, and Sri Lanka." Is Buddhism Violent?
Violent Buddhist extremists are targeting Muslims in Sri Lanka
Buddhism, War, and Violence - Oxford Handbooks
Conflict in Buddhism: 'Violence for the sake of peace?' - CNN
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326940969_Buddhism_war_and_violence

Don't Forget, Buddhists Are Only Human
Of course, Buddhists are human beings and it should come as no surprise that lay Buddhists over the centuries have sometimes marched out to war. Some have committed murder, and many eat meat despite theological teachings that stress vegetarianism. To an outsider with a perhaps stereotypical view of Buddhism as introspective and serene, it is more surprising to learn that Buddhist monks have also participated in and even instigated violence over the years.

Buddhist Warfare

Violence and Buddhism Are Opposites - or Are They?
The darker side of Buddhism


Bottom line people are only human.
 
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hedrick

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Multiple denominations aren’t really a big deal. Most Protestants think that Church is basically a single congregation, and that larger organizations exist to do things that are better done cooperatively. In that context, lots of denominations aren’t a problem.

What is a problem is that there are major differences on what Christianity is. There aren’t as many of these are there are denominations. E.g. the major mainline denominations pretty much agree on theology, and are in communion with each other. Even Catholic theologians and scholars are part of this community, though the official position of the church doesn’t always reflect it.

Similarly, I think conservative churches have tended to coalesce around “evangelicalism.” Yes, Baptists don’t believe in baptizing infants, but I think conservative Baptists hold largely the same faith as other evangelicals. Pentecostals may be a bit more different, with speaking of tongues and expectation of spiritual gifts, but still, if you don’t include the non-trinitarian Pentecostals I think they hold basically an evangelical faith.

This kind of difference in interpretation existed in the early Church, and continued until the State adopted Christianity and enforced conformity. It immediately restarted as soon as states were no longer willing to enforce conformity. Even during the period when the State enforced conformity, it involved a few standards — there will still lots of difference in interpretation.

Some people treat Christianity as if God had revealed a theology textbook, and being Christian was all about preserving it. But he didn’t. Jesus was more about attitudes, and he taught using an approach that was more about provoking personal reaction than teaching theology. CF tends to emphasize differences in doctrine, but I don’t think that’s such a major part of most Christians’ lives.

However I do think there are several different emphases that affect people’s lives, and different denominations and communities reflect a different balance among them. I agree that in other religions the same kinds of differences exist, but aren’t reflected in competing organizations. But Christianity has always had more organized structure than Buddhism. A lot of it may go back to the early years. Christianity was persecuted intermittently since the beginning. The structure helped it survive. And once you have a powerful organization, it always finds ways to preserve itself. But I think for most Christians, the Christian life centers on putting Jesus’ teachings into practice, and participating in worship and other activities in their church, and the conflicts among church really don’t have much effect on them.
 
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Monksailor

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TELLYONTELLYON said that there were ONLY two schools of division in Buddhism and while I was responding with this over an hour long to produce post they changed what they said and took the TWO out of it.

You are mistaken about Buddhism having only two divisions:
"The classification and nature of various doctrinal, philosophical or cultural facets of the schools of Buddhism is vague and has been interpreted in many different ways, often due to the sheer number (perhaps thousands) of different sects, subsects, movements, etc. that have made up or currently make up the whole of Buddhist traditions. The sectarian and conceptual divisions of Buddhist thought are part of the modern framework of Buddhist studies, as well as comparative religion in Asia." Schools of Buddhism - Wikipedia

Your issue with DENOMINATIONS is a pet peeve of mine and has been most of my 45 yrs of being a Christian, it took a few years to realize its depth and galvanization.

The division in Christianity is ABSOLUTELY NOT at all what our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, God the Son, the Creator and Sustainer of all, has clearly communicated to us how to relate with our fellow believers in HIM. Jesus CLEARLY communicates His desire for us to be in UNITY of mind and spirit. Read ch 17 of John. He prayed this as He prepared to leave earth through His torturous atonement sacrifice on our behalf in order to make redemption for our sins possible. The why of it all is simple, PRIDE, satan's chief tool of all kinds of sin and possibly the strongest disrupter of human relations. Divide and Conquer works very well and internal division is the most effective. Satan is very clever and his primary objective is to get as many people with him in hell. His chief enemy down here on earth is Christianity and Judaism so satan has been very active since the beginning trying to conquer those influences. I believe satan uses pride and such to cause division ultimately to conquer the church, at large, on earth.

I tell you what, as long as you find it such perplexing problem in one's religion/faith, why don't you first find out why it is such a perplexing problem in your own. Very big log in your own eye?

 
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seeking.IAM

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I have always liked the way C.S. Lewis wrote about it in Mere Christianity as being like a house with many rooms and rules common to the whole house:

"It is more like a hall out of which doors open into several rooms. If I can bring anyone into that hall, I have done what I attempted. But it is in the rooms, not the hall, that there are fires and chairs and meals. The hall is a place to wait in, a place from which to try the various doors, not a place to live in. For that purpose the worst of the rooms (whichever that may be) is, I think preferable. It is true that some people may find they have to wait in the hall for a considerable time, while others feel certain almost at once which door they must knock at. I do not know why there is this difference, but I am sure God keeps no one waiting unless He sees that it is good for him to wait. When you do get into the room you will find that the long wait has done some kind of good which you would not have had otherwise. But you must regard it as waiting, not as camping. You must keep on praying for light: and, of course, even in the hall, you must begin trying to obey the rules which are common to the whole house. And above all you must be asking which door is the true one; not which pleases you best by its paint and paneling.

In plain language, the question should never be: "Do I like that kind of service?" but "Are these doctrines true: Is holiness here? Does my conscience move me towards this? Is my reluctance to knock at this door due to my pride, or my mere taste, or my personal dislike of this particular door-keeper?"

When you have reached your own room, be kind to those who have chosen different doors and to those who are still in the hall. If they are wrong they need your prayers all the more; and if they are your enemies, then you are under orders to pray for them. This is one of the rules common to the whole house."


-C.S. Lewis Mere Christianity
 
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Tellyontellyon

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TELLYONTELLYON said that there were ONLY two schools of division in Buddhism and while I was responding with this over an hour long to produce post they changed what they said and took the TWO out of it.
No I didn't, that is a lie.
 
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Monksailor

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No I didn't, that is a lie.
Well, unfortunately, I cannot prove it isn't so I apologize, if so. But regardless of that, the FACT remains that division is certainly NOT restricted to Christianity and CERTAINLY a BIG PROBLEM in Buddhism. So why do make it such a BIG problem for Christians and apparently no problem for Buddhists? If you are really plagued with such a problem it would stand to reason that you would want to solve it for your own home, FIRST, right?
 
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Tellyontellyon

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Well, unfortunately, I cannot prove it isn't so I apologize, if so. But regardless of that, the FACT remains that division is certainly NOT restricted to Christianity and CERTAINLY a BIG PROBLEM in Buddhism. So why do make it such a BIG problem for Christians and apparently no problem for Buddhists? If you are really plagued with such a problem it would stand to reason that you would want to solve it for your own home, FIRST, right?
You can't prove it because it didn't happen, but the mods can check it for you I'm sure!
There are many different sects in Buddhism, what I said was is that they generally, mostly, respect each other and see other paths as valid.
(That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions to this, and it doesn't mean there aren't violent Buddhists, many Kamikaze pilots were blessed by Zen priests!) There are plenty of bad Buddhists, I wasn't trying to single out Christianity in that regard!
But!
The denominations of Christianity do seem to have a sharper edge and I see talk, even on this forum, that gives that impression.
I don't think it is the blame of Christianity per se. I said that from my point of view it was unnecessary and based on minor issues. I don't think I was attacking Christianity or trying to put Buddhism up there on a pedestal over your faith.
 
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hedrick

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I agree that Christians tend to have sharper edges on our disagreements.

While every religion has differences of opinion, Christianity from very early came to define itself as based on specific beliefs much more strongly than other religions.

This was bad enough, but then the Roman Emperor embraced Christianity, and wanted to use it to hold the Empire together. To him that implied that Christians all had to agree, and those who didn’t were traitors to the State.

That approach continued for more than 1000 years. In the 16th Cent most governments got out of the business of enforcing theology, but Christians had gotten so used to controlling beliefs that they were unwilling to relax when things changed.

Mainline Christianity doesn't do that, but the one thing that all conservative Christians agree on is that mainline Christianity is unacceptable. (The current Pope seems to be close to a mainline Protestant, but so far his impact on the Catholic church as a whole has been minimal.)
 
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I think Christianity like all things where humans are concerned we are a fickle creature. Never happy when someone won't see our way and when we do it's still not correct. I think your views personally are quite valid. I believe we can all get heaven as Christians we are on different roads, sadly we tend to at times into other travelers and hence a little road rage.

If there were anything I could change I would remove the disunity that has and still causes so many problems,
 
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In answer to the question posed by the OP, I'd say that the "problem" was painted too strongly. And although I can agree to the characterization of Buddhist divisions, Buddhism is quite different from Christianity, theologically speaking, which probably accounts for the perception you outlined for us.

And that's just Buddhism; my understanding of other major world religions is that their divisions are more contentious than the Christian denominations.

Consider the Shiites and Sunnites in Islam, for example. And that's saying nothing of the Druze, Bahai, and others that are in an even worse position vis-a-vis the major Islamic groups.
 
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I find Christians seem to have much sharper divisions. I don't really know why because, as an outsider the differences seem slight, and don't warrant a separate church.

I agree that Christians seem to have sharper divisions. I also agree that there is not much warrant for it.

♥ Why?

♥ Is my impression of Christianity way off, or is it as bad as it appears?

♥ How would you change it if you could?

There's a lot of history that has created divisions that have stuck. Others have mentioned some of it. I don't think your impression is way off. It is bad, and it's probably one of the great weaknesses of Christianity, historically speaking. The NT scriptures are so clear that we are to be united. And I believe if Christians were, it would change the world (more than it already has). Christian unity in love is one of the primary ways we were given to show that Christ is our Lord (John 13:35). But, is that what we do? Nope. We fuss and fight over doctrine, practice, and who gets wetter when being baptized. It's truly something to bemoan. Doxastic humility is not a virtue with which many Christians are familiar. So, that would be a good place to start, I think.
 
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