White Posters Only- Do you see the problem of racism against black people as...

  • 1. The fault of white people everywhere, including yourself, either consciously or unconsciously

  • 2. The fault of other white people, you make mistakes, but you don't really hold any racist views

  • 3. The fault of everyone regardless of race. We are all racist sometimes.


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Ana the Ist

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What you're referring to, Ana the lst, is the recent phenomenon of using words to mean whatever the speaker wants them to mean, even if it's patently nonsense.

Apparently no one is going to be sued if the defense is simply that the speaker holds that opinion and it doesn't refer to any specific action that could be judged false. So, we'll see more of this.

The absurdity in this one is that "White Silence is Violence" but "Cops in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" is not a call for violence.

:destroyed:

Redefining words and terms like "racism" and "white privilege" while also inventing new terms like "whitesplaining" to dismiss the views of an entire race of people is such a blatantly obvious attempt at controlling dialogue and discussion that it's hard for me to believe the people who go along with it don't really see it

That's not even including the digital shaming and humiliation of people on social media.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I don't know. my first knee jerk reaction was that the solution is to function in the lower rather than the higher. I have no faith in human systems. ;/

Heavenly Unity cannot be created bottom up. Unity of individuals that form X group is still a separation from other groups. To focus on your race is to not focus on God and the things that are eternal. In Heaven There is diversity. There can be no Union without separation. But race is part of the animal human which Fades away. It's only a theme so that we can either do good or evil with it. I am more my soul and my spirit than I am My Flesh. I think that only the radicalness of the Kingdom of Heaven truly solves these problems and so there is no point to play politics games or race games. I hereby renounce my whiteness. I don't care about it one iota nor about any color. Animals are dead and only actual persons are eternal. Anything concerned with race is now a filthy rag to me that I Cast Away From Me.

To some extent, that's what I was saying, but maybe without some of the denunciation about the value of our flesh. As for 'being White,' I don't really care about that either. But let me be clear that while I don't think that our primary work as Christians is to bring about legal coercion, I do think we are prescribed in Christ to work toward justice and equality for everyone as a part of our ongoing work as His Church to spread the Good News. These aren't separate things; one is integral to the other.

When I say, "I believe in resurrection, not insurrection; I believe in revelation, not revolution!," I mean it. But what this doesn't mean is total political inactivity. What it can mean is feeding the hungry, aiding the destitute, offering equanimity for the disenfranchised, especially those who have been actively disenfranchised by abuse and negligence in a political system with systemic "racial" asymmetries.
 
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childeye 2

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Because I'm curious about how white posters on this forum view their role in racism.

If non-white posters respond, it won't tell me anything about how the white posters see things.

The thread is open to anyone.
Thank you for the response. I'm just trying to point out that asking only white people what they think, is racist in it's premise. Not that you are deliberately racist for articulating it as such. Therefore the problem is with the term "racism/racist" when it is conflated with "race" in our psycho-linguistics. Please note choice number three: The fault of everyone regardless of race. We are all racist sometimes. That's conflating the two terms in the mind of the reader.

You're probably meaning we all suffer the same blindness or even maybe we all look out for our people, but nonetheless it remains postured in the negative for all, in that we're all racists so we're all even. But this effectually only validates racism as not imaginary, meaning there's actual reason to fear the other.

Allow me to point out that racism is a negative phenomenon that is imaginary in the sense that it is formed through a negative prejudice manifesting from two subjective views of us and them. If you ask white people what they think about their role in perpetuating a "negative prejudice" based on race, the reader gets a different picture then when you say "racism ". One that will most likely be unanimous in concluding that a negative prejudice is obviously irrational, regardless of race. You can't ask peoples opinions on a subject using unstable terms and expect to get clear answers.
 
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bèlla

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They even call one another white when someone does something that they don't perceive as being black

That’s true. I experienced it a lot growing up. I didn’t look the part. I spoke differently and my dress and manner weren’t the same. When they questioned my ethnicity I knew the issue. They wanted to be me but they couldn’t.

That was my first lesson in power. I never forgot it. The display of weakness and internal tumult that compelled them to articulate their thoughts ignited something within me.

My killer instinct emerged that day. I grew up playing chess at a young age. My aunt insisted on that, checkers or Scrabble. She’s 40 years older. That isn’t a fair fight. But it made me shrewd. That’s how I addressed the situation and those that followed.

I didn’t play their game, react or apologize. I outwitted them. The goal was my diminishment. So I raised the stakes and scaled higher. Beyond their reach.

Sometimes you have to play offense against your environment. Satan throws many things in our path to trip us up. Keeping a cool head and responding in wisdom is the difference between success and an apology or whipping post.

~Bella
 
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Pavel Mosko

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I have noticed the irony of attacking people who share their opinions on the matter to the point where sharing an opinion can cost someone their job....then complaining that people aren't speaking out about the issues they care about.

It shows that they don't really want a discussion or even want to hear opinions. They simply want you to tell them they're right.

Yep for me the whole irony of the recent food company mascot controversy came to light.


1) They are mad at Aunt Jemima and uncle Ben's mascots... seeing them as racist.

2) But in the past people like Jesse Jackson has gone to various companies looking at their ethnic representation, and I'm pretty sure if their were no black food company mascots, people like that would find a problem with that.

I laughed a day or two ago, when V logger Journalist, Tim Pool remarked how nobody has complained about some white mascots like the Mr. Clean, or the Brawny paper towel lumber jack, but I'm pretty sure a grocery store with products that have only white people on the box or label would be seen as inherently racist etc.
 
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jacks

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Redefining words and terms like "racism" and "white privilege" while also inventing new terms like "whitesplaining" to dismiss the views of an entire race of people is such a blatantly obvious attempt at controlling dialogue and discussion that it's hard for me to believe the people who go along with it don't really see it

That's not even including the digital shaming and humiliation of people on social media.

Yes, I think it's hard to get a handle on what people are really thinking. Brings to mind the fable "The Emperor Has No Clothes." No one dares to say that they do not see the emperors clothes out of fear. I suppose it can work in any direction and probably shifts over time, but right now there is definitely acceptable and unacceptable speech on race.
 
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Noxot

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This is a noble attitude, but unfortunately it is not appropriate at this time. In order to deal with the real-world problems racism has caused we must FIRST understand the lived experience of those whose skins are a different color from ours. We cannot move to the glory of dessert before we've choked down our brussel sprouts.



If people hadn't been able to utilize the Bible itself to support their racist views we might have something there. I'm not saying that God likes slavery or racism (not because the Bible stands against it or anything like that) but rather that there have been well-meaning people who thought they were following God's words who used those same words to justify their own racism. They may have been wrong but it doesn't really matter, does it. God himself has not stepped in to keep George Floyd from being choked to death on the pavement. So we are left with taking actions ourselves.
it's true that we are in this world to act. it's hard to come up with good Solutions when society as a whole is really not going to be willing to embrace big change. but it wouldn't be much at all to treat everyone as equals, we already often do that in our daily lives. Society tends to improve in small increments. So many humans are stubborn in their ways. So many are accepting of how things are. that's partially because disagreeing with the status quo can get you killed as those black men that resist often display.

I've been choked to the point of blacking out so I know how it feels. Honestly it starts to feel good but my jaw hurt for about a year after I got beat up. My brothers have been repeatedly beat up by both criminals and cops. I think I can circumvent your problem by simply hating what is evil and loving what is good. I will support whatever is good and condemn what is evil as much as I can, like I have been trying to do.

The law system is corrupt. Citizens are also corrupt. Anyone who functions in the law or lawlessness rather then the holy spirit is corrupt. I wont reduce this to a race problem, though that is part of it. it is a spiritual problem, a problem of people's desires and perceptions. it is a problem of lack of wisdom and lack of love. People of all stripes are sinners and that's why evil exists. the human race is tormented because we live in a world of Good and Evil. the legal system needs to be greatly reduced so that cops don't do dumb things and citizens are less likely to feel like they are going to be punished for dumb things. Improving relations between cops and citizens means less black people will unjustly die by cops. it also means that cops will kill criminals who try to hurt or kill them. Killing someone for smoking crack in their car is a very evil thing. Cops have no business trying to enforce every jot and iota of arbitrary and random Empty laws. Laws must be reduced to a minimum so that they are important again. cops should be respected and loved but they should also be worthy of respect. the only people that should fear cops are people that commit atrocious crimes such as stealing people's livelihood, rape, murdering.

you can only commune with God in as much as you are like God. There will never be a solution for this world of its own self, it is condemned to the sphere of necessity and animal programming.
Goodness comes from a completely different reality than this one and anyone that doesn't partake of it will have the poverty that this one gives. Those who refuse to go beyond the Bible and live in the Holy Spirit are dead just as much as atheist that don't believe in God who is goodness and Truth itself. Everyone partakes of the good as much as they want to be they religious or be they atheist.
 
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solid_core

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Imagine that some of the black slave hunters in africa, who hunted black people and sold them to Europeans, had children and those children later emmigrated to the USA and today want reparations because they are black.

And there is nothing improbable about this.

Collective guilt is always a wrong way to go. Learn from Europe after the WWII, how they supported Germany to become strong and peaceful nation instead of blaming it again and again.

You can never blame somebody for something that happened 200 years ago, because there is nobody alive who is guilty of it.
 
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Noxot

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Did you ever embrace your whiteness? Do you have to renounce it if you never embraced it?
I kind of don't get what whiteness is, or Blackness for that matter. aesthetically speaking, both colors look pretty nice. I think I prefer the extremes of Snow White and deep dark black. What does it mean to embrace my whiteness or to embrace blackness? Does it mean to be stereotyped? Does it mean to care for my race? I'm against both of those already because a stereotype is a lack of freedom and I'd rather care for All Souls like God taught me to.

AlI know is that I hate my whiteness more than I used to now, seems kind of useless to me. I was thinking about the letter of Jude. I actually can't stand being a creature in general. It's full of the pride of life. I Want To Be My Soul and Spirit I don't want to be this flesh. What use is this flesh anyways? It's constantly bothering me about needing food and shelter. My flesh is my oppressor. To be a creature is to be a victim.

I was okay with my whiteness. Never really thought about it much. Did not feel especially privileged since I grew up in various poor places with various colors, was always bullied for being a socially awkward nerd, quit school in 9th grade, worked a job with people of both genders and all colors and we all got paid the same since we are all low tier and easily replaced cogs. I didn't feel especially privileged when I got arrested by a cop for me simply crawling under a fence to pass a railroad track. Maybe some would argue that a black person would have had a harsher punishment. That just makes me hate the law even more though.
 
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That’s true. I experienced it a lot growing up. I didn’t look the part. I spoke differently and my dress and manner weren’t the same. When they questioned my ethnicity I knew the issue. They wanted to be me but they couldn’t.

That was my first lesson in power. I never forgot it. The display of weakness and internal tumult that compelled them to articulate their thoughts ignited something within me.

My killer instinct emerged that day. I grew up playing chess at a young age. My aunt insisted on that, checkers or Scrabble. She’s 40 years older. That isn’t a fair fight. But it made me shrewd. That’s how I addressed the situation and those that followed.

I didn’t play their game, react or apologize. I outwitted them. The goal was my diminishment. So I raised the stakes and scaled higher. Beyond their reach.

Sometimes you have to play offense against your environment. Satan throws many things in our path to trip us up. Keeping a cool head and responding in wisdom is the difference between success and an apology or whipping post.

~Bella
I admire the way you could of let that unfair criticism bring you down, or you could have conformed to it and tried to fit a mold...but you didn't.

My girlfriend has had a tough time finding a job. She blames it solely on being black and says none of these interviewers want to hire her

I tried to mention in a delicate way that developing exceptional communication skills is a way around that. I also offered to do practice interviews with her and said to her it would be good for me to practice too

But it only led to her getting angry at me and verbally body slamming me through a table!!

So i do truly admire the strength and wisdom God blessed you with!! And your Aunt as well
 
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Ana the Ist

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I have a very negative view of some of what is currently going on, since I've seen white progressives refer to black conservatives as effectively race traitors who are profiting from an unjust system at the expense of their own people. If a predominately white social movement is policing what black voices are and are not considered legitimate, that's colonialism, pure and simple.

I don't love the "white silence is violence" shtick, since I think it conflicts with the idea that we're supposed to listen to what the black community (i.e., all of it, not just the voices that already agree with us) is saying without just wandering around screaming our own opinion to the four winds. I do think we should be engaging with these issues and not pretending that they have nothing to do with us, but making it all about white people just reintroduces the white savior complex under a new guise.

You think white people shouldn't offer their opinions on the problem of racism and how to work on it?
 
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Silmarien

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You think white people shouldn't offer their opinions on the problem of racism and how to work on it?

Offer, yes. Scream it to the four winds? No.

The world doesn't revolve around us, so we really do need to learn how to listen also. The progressives know this, though I'm not convinced that they're all that good at actually doing it.
 
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bèlla

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I admire the way you could of let that unfair criticism bring you down, or you could have conformed to it and tried to fit a mold...but you didn't.

My parents were adamant we were leaders not followers. They reinforced that and the necessity for excellence constantly. We learned black history at home and at school (from K through 6th grade). I had a clear sense of my identity. My mother's family emphasized gentility and ladyship. Being well mannered was expected at all times. When others acted out of turn we were expected to keep our cool and rise to the occasion.

Fitting the mold was never an option. I knew my place and that was the difference. I didn't see color as a hindrance or color at all to be honest. I knew my history and roots and embraced all facets of my makeup. I didn't esteem one over the other. The French, English and Jewish parts of me are evident.

My girlfriend has had a tough time finding a job. She blames it solely on being black and says none of these interviewers want to hire her. I tried to mention in a delicate way that developing exceptional communication skills is a way around that. I also offered to do practice interviews with her and said to her it would be good for me to practice too

I don't understand race-based ideologies. I can't think like that at all. Seriously. Someone once told me I was too white and had too many white friends. But when Satan was kicking my butt and trying to keep me in his camp my Caucasian friends jumped in and took the blows with me. For the sake of love and my welfare. You can't drink the koolaid.

But it only led to her getting angry at me and verbally body slamming me through a table!!

That would not do! There's a fine line between flippancy and disrespect. Both are out of bounds. There must be a line you don't cross. I've dated outside my race since I was 19. Life is hard enough without justifying my race. I can't.

So i do truly admire the strength and wisdom God blessed you with!! And you Aunt as well

I am not responsible for the choices of my forefathers. They worked cohesively towards a vision for my betterment. I won't apologize for their forethought or sacrifice. I won't feel guilt because they wanted to smooth the path for my benefit. I'm not ashamed of their work ethic or willingness to pay it forward. I'm adding to the heap.

I'm purpose driven and legacy minded. I'm chasing His mark. That's my priority.

~Bella
 
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MehGuy

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The public school system I grew up under helped me develop a white guilt complex. A major factor I believe made it so effective was that the preaching and instilling of guilt was done by mostly other white people. While I do not know of any studies, it would be interesting if there is a correlation between being a weak willed white person filled with guilt and someone with a backbone who actually thinks for him/herself and their daily interaction with people of color. With the former being more insulated among white faces and the latter less so.

Fortunately interacting with racial justice activists withered away my white guilt. As has already been said, they do not want a real discussion they just want compliance. Unfortunately I think the only real solution is enduring more of this walk on egg shells treatment and unquestioned compliance before the bubble finally bursts and people start airing their honest thoughts and a real discussion can begin. Even then, many don't now how far (racial) masochism can go.
 
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My parents were adamant we were leaders not followers. They reinforced that and the necessity for excellence constantly. We learned black history at home and at school (from K through 6th grade). I had a clear sense of my identity. My mother's family emphasized gentility and ladyship. Being well mannered was expected at all times. When others acted out of turn we were expected to keep our cool and rise to the occasion.

Fitting the mold was never an option. I knew my place and that was the difference. I didn't see color as a hindrance or color at all to be honest. I knew my history and roots and embraced all facets of my makeup. I didn't esteem one over the other. The French, English and Jewish parts of me are evident.



I don't understand race-based ideologies. I can't think like that at all. Seriously. Someone once told me I was too white and had too many white friends. But when Satan was kicking my butt and trying to keep me in his camp my Caucasian friends jumped in and took the blows with me. For the sake of love and my welfare. You can't drink the koolaid.



That would not do! There's a fine line between flippancy and disrespect. Both are out of bounds. There must be a line you don't cross. I've dated outside my race since I was 19. Life is hard enough without justifying my race. I can't.



I am not responsible for the choices of my forefathers. They worked cohesively towards a vision for my betterment. I won't apologize for their forethought or sacrifice. I won't feel guilt because they wanted to smooth the path for my benefit. I'm not ashamed of their work ethic or willingness to pay it forward. I'm adding to the heap.

I'm purpose driven and legacy minded. I'm chasing His mark. That's my priority.

~Bella
I appreciate your honesty and your insight. I wish race wasnt brought up so often because like you i dont believe anyone should be put into a box

Anyone who listens to society and allows society to dictate how they live and think will end up in a box (mentally)

Its sad anyone would expect or think you should apologize for your forefathers sacrificing for future generations. You are blessed with great ancestors that would not let the future generations fall into a pit. They built there house on rock instead of sand
 
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Monna

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Collective guilt is always a wrong way to go. Learn from Europe after the WWII, how they supported Germany to become strong and peaceful nation instead of blaming it again and again.

You can never blame somebody for something that happened 200 years ago, because there is nobody alive who is guilty of it.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.​

1 Corinthians 10:11
These things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our instruction, on whom the ends of the ages have come.​

If the two Bible quotations are the truth, consider the example of Nehemiah's prayer in Nehemiah 1:4-7
'When I heard these things, I sat down and wept. For some days I mourned and fasted and prayed before the God of heaven.
Then I said: “Lord, the God of heaven, the great and awesome God, who keeps his covenant of love with those who love him and keep his commandments, let your ear be attentive and your eyes open to hear the prayer your servant is praying before you day and night for your servants, the people of Israel. I confess the sins we Israelites, including myself and my father’s family, have committed against you. We have acted very wickedly toward you. We have not obeyed the commands, decrees and laws you gave your servant Moses..."'

Nehemiah was heard by God because he included himself in the collective sins of his ancesters. Jesus did not pick and choose who he identified with. In his baptism he identified with all sinners everywhere and through all time, though John was technically correct when he told Jesus "you have no need to be baptised." And when he was baptised God spoke “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.” (Mark 1:11) He was not ashamed to be crucified with criminals, though the highest power in the land had said only hours before "I find nothing worthy of death in him."

There are sins of commission and sins of omission. If I have not actively taken a stand against wrong-doing of any kind, including discrimination of people of ethnicities different from mine, discrimination on the basis of gender, faith, handicap, income level, social standing or whatever, I am guilty of a "social debt" of sin - just as one of the two versions of the Lord's prayer says "Forgive our debts, as we forgive those who are indebted to us." Jesus continues to intercede for us, because we continue to live up to the requirements of both the laws of Moses and of love. When I point a finger at anyone else for wrong-doing I am very conscious that there are three fingers pointing back at me.

Not only so. James (ch 2:10) says "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."

And we are called to intercede for others too, following our Lord's example.
 
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Ana the Ist

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To be honest I personally don't see the problem of racism in this country.

You has said...." that I along with many other white people, don't hear any racism from the people we are around the vast majority of the time." I would be in the same situation.

I get what you're saying....and it's the same for the cast majority of white people I know. I think that part of the reason why open dialogue would benefit BLM and and a great many race activists is this giant disconnect between what they think white people experience and what we actually experience.

I think there's racism....I think it impacts a lot of people in small and large ways. I don't think the problem is as the activists describe it. It gets described as this all consuming, future destroying, career stunting whirlpool that mainly black people are in the middle of. thlxey have to fight ten times harder than anyone else to keep their heads above the water.

So, where do I see racism? As it should be no surprise, on the main stream media. Racism in the USA is pushed as an agenda.

You can have the exact same happen to an Oriental, Native American, Latino, Caucasian or an African American...who ever they may be....and only the African American story will make the news. I'm sure someone can find the exception to the rule but for the most part what I have said is true.

I would add a 4th option to your survey....The fault of a particular group creating racism in the country.

The question is who is stirring the pot and advancing racism and division in the USA and why are they doing it?

I have my suspects.

I have no doubt that the media is pushing it...traditional media is pushing it and social media creates a sort of echo chamber where bad ideas are never examined critically, and they get repeated until they're taken as fact.

Why? First and foremost because it sells. If you tell a group of people that the bad things that happen to them aren't their fault...they're the fault of another group....and that other group should make amends in the form of money and power....

Well honestly, people would love that explanation. It absolves them of any responsibility and requires no self examination.

I would guess there's other reasons too....like politics. It's hard to keep people focused on anything for extended periods of time...but an endless supply of outrage seems to work pretty well. If that outrage can be directed at a politician or political party...you have an effective way of influencing the voters.
 
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bèlla

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I appreciate your honesty and your insight. I wish race wasnt brought up so often because like you i dont believe anyone should be put into a box

I was a child with many wondering why my hair curled and my skin burned when the sun shone. What was I supposed to do? I was 5 years old when it started. I understand what it means to march to your own drumbeat.

Its sad anyone would expect or think you should apologize for your forefathers sacrificing for future generations. You are blessed with great ancestors that would not let the future generations fall into a pit. They built there house on rock instead of sand

Assimilation is a crime. I'm supposed to be uncomfortable. I'm supposed to be afraid. I should never be in an environment dominated by one demographic and feel at home. I'm not supposed to fit. There's an idea of suffering that should be the norm for all people of color.

But that isn't my reality. I don't feel hate or anger. I believe He'll accomplish His mission in spite of the challenges we face.

~Bella
 
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