White Posters Only- Do you see the problem of racism against black people as...

  • 1. The fault of white people everywhere, including yourself, either consciously or unconsciously

  • 2. The fault of other white people, you make mistakes, but you don't really hold any racist views

  • 3. The fault of everyone regardless of race. We are all racist sometimes.


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Ana the Ist

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I'd like this thread to be an honest open discussion about racism and the current iteration of the Black Lives Movement. I feel like that's something hard to do on this forum with all the flaming, and goading, and finger pointing. Please don't post some snarky 2 sentence joke or trolling statement, don't try to make this about Trump or any other politician. Please, try to make a thoughtful post that adds to the discussion.

In the past couple of weeks, I've noticed a more aggressive and more direct tone and message from the protesters, BLM, and it's supporters. The title of the thread is a phrase I've seen thrown around a lot. The phrase White Silence is Violence. It's also written as To Be Silent Is To Be Complicit. For example...

Black Lives Matter: Silence is 'complicity,' say many white protesters | News24

I disagree with the message. That simply isn't how problems work. The problem, generally speaking, is racism towards blacks. The word complicit has a pretty specific meaning....

Definition of COMPLICIT

helping to commit a crime or do wrong in some way

If I told you that staying silent about Islamic terrorism made you complicit, you would probably think I had gone bonkers. Simply not talking about a problem doesn't make you a part of the problem.

I also think it's wrong that this statement is, in any meaningful way, directed at white people....as if racism is all our fault. In many cases, I think the people saying it want white people to speak up against the racism they hear from other white people. The reality is though, that I along with many other white people, don't hear any racism from the people we are around the vast majority of the time. I work in law enforcement and I can honestly say I don't remember the last time any of my friends or coworkers said anything racist....even a little bit racist.

If you don't think this message is directed at white people....here's a recent example...

Steve Harvey Calls BLM Protests ‘One of the Greatest Movements Since the Civil Rights Movement’

Kimberly Jones is an Atlanta based BLM activist...

"I think the only way something is going to come out of this is if we start making the necessary changes ourselves," Jones said. "Because it's been proven time and time again that we're on our own. The saddest part about that is that racism is not a Black issue that white people need to empathize with. Racism is a white problem. They caused it. They need to fix it. But I don't have faith anymore that that's going to happen."

This is a view that a shocking number of people hold. It's been hinted at for years....when ideas like white privilege were used to shame white people. It's the subtext when the same people tried to redefine racism as something only white people are guilty of. It's implied in ideas like "white fragility" and "whitesplaining".

A couple of years back, research showed that only white people....specifically white liberals....are the only racial group with an out-group bias. That means out of each racial group, only white people viewed themselves in a more negative way than others. A lot of conservatives found this amusing....I found it sad.

No one should ever be ashamed of their skin color. No one should view themselves in a negative way because of their skin color. This is a relatively new phenomenon and I can only imagine that it's because of the constant shaming and blaming of whites that has been allowed to go on for so long.

The reason it's gone on for so long is that BLM and other activists and race "scholars" have pushed this viewpoint and they do not allow for any honest and open debate or discussion (like the one I'm trying to have here). If you don't agree with them, you're labeled a racist and part of the problem. This creates an echo chamber where only one opinion is allowed. That's why we're seeing openly racist statements about white people (like the one above). That's why black people are advocating for discrimination against whites in job hiring (which I also have a thread on).

This is why I cannot support BLM even though I believe in racial equality and accountability for police. Their methods are faulty....and their message is too often deplorably racist.

There shouldn't be anything controversial about saying "All Lives Matter" or "It's ok to be white". Those are simple truths that everyone should agree with.

I could go on...but I fear I've lost most readers by now lol. I look forward to seeing your thoughts about this issue.
 

Albion

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What you're referring to, Ana the lst, is the recent phenomenon of using words to mean whatever the speaker wants them to mean, even if it's patently nonsense.

Apparently no one is going to be sued if the defense is simply that the speaker holds that opinion and it doesn't refer to any specific action that could be judged false. So, we'll see more of this.

The absurdity in this one is that "White Silence is Violence" but "Cops in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" is not a call for violence.

:destroyed:
 
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I feel as though none of these apply. I have grace in the area of racism but im no better then those who are racist as i have struggled in other areas

The devil is to blame. Remember our battle is not with flesh and bones but with spirits and principals. Racism is a spirit, a close relative of pride

It doesnt do much good to call people out and label them. Or shame them, or cancel them

This stuffs not gonna go away so its best that we lean on God and ask him for his wisdom to help us all get through this and treat people in a kind and gentle manner, while showing sympathy and compassion to those who have had to deal with racism
 
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solid_core

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What is happening in the USA these days is terrible, there is no rationality in it anymore.

The USA are so much internally divided and whites are so weak to say "no! its enough". There is 13% of blacks in the US population but it seems that the whole world is about them. Because of media.

Many of them are not even descendants of the slaves, but immigrated to the USA later, as many of whites are not descendants of slave owners, but either immigrated to the USA later or simply their ancestors did not own slaves. But it seems today that all whites should be somehow punished for that history and that all blacks are victims of slavery and should be repaid. Which is of course absurd.
 
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Silmarien

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I have a very negative view of some of what is currently going on, since I've seen white progressives refer to black conservatives as effectively race traitors who are profiting from an unjust system at the expense of their own people. If a predominately white social movement is policing what black voices are and are not considered legitimate, that's colonialism, pure and simple.

I don't love the "white silence is violence" shtick, since I think it conflicts with the idea that we're supposed to listen to what the black community (i.e., all of it, not just the voices that already agree with us) is saying without just wandering around screaming our own opinion to the four winds. I do think we should be engaging with these issues and not pretending that they have nothing to do with us, but making it all about white people just reintroduces the white savior complex under a new guise.
 
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-57

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To be honest I personally don't see the problem of racism in this country.

You has said...." that I along with many other white people, don't hear any racism from the people we are around the vast majority of the time." I would be in the same situation.

So, where do I see racism? As it should be no surprise, on the main stream media. Racism in the USA is pushed as an agenda.

You can have the exact same happen to an Oriental, Native American, Latino, Caucasian or an African American...who ever they may be....and only the African American story will make the news. I'm sure someone can find the exception to the rule but for the most part what I have said is true.

I would add a 4th option to your survey....The fault of a particular group creating racism in the country.

The question is who is stirring the pot and advancing racism and division in the USA and why are they doing it?

I have my suspects.
 
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Broken Fence

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I am sorry my choice was not up there. Racism is not white only. People of other races are prejudice. Because I am white, I am racist is completely ridiculous. Racism is a prejudice against a person because of race. I am white and people are racist against me because of my skin color.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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I'd like this thread to be an honest open discussion about racism and the current iteration of the Black Lives Movement. I feel like that's something hard to do on this forum with all the flaming, and goading, and finger pointing. Please don't post some snarky 2 sentence joke or trolling statement, don't try to make this about Trump or any other politician. Please, try to make a thoughtful post that adds to the discussion.

In the past couple of weeks, I've noticed a more aggressive and more direct tone and message from the protesters, BLM, and it's supporters. The title of the thread is a phrase I've seen thrown around a lot. The phrase White Silence is Violence. It's also written as To Be Silent Is To Be Complicit. For example...

Black Lives Matter: Silence is 'complicity,' say many white protesters | News24

I disagree with the message. That simply isn't how problems work. The problem, generally speaking, is racism towards blacks. The word complicit has a pretty specific meaning....

Definition of COMPLICIT

helping to commit a crime or do wrong in some way

If I told you that staying silent about Islamic terrorism made you complicit, you would probably think I had gone bonkers. Simply not talking about a problem doesn't make you a part of the problem.

I also think it's wrong that this statement is, in any meaningful way, directed at white people....as if racism is all our fault. In many cases, I think the people saying it want white people to speak up against the racism they hear from other white people. The reality is though, that I along with many other white people, don't hear any racism from the people we are around the vast majority of the time. I work in law enforcement and I can honestly say I don't remember the last time any of my friends or coworkers said anything racist....even a little bit racist.

If you don't think this message is directed at white people....here's a recent example...

Steve Harvey Calls BLM Protests ‘One of the Greatest Movements Since the Civil Rights Movement’

Kimberly Jones is an Atlanta based BLM activist...

"I think the only way something is going to come out of this is if we start making the necessary changes ourselves," Jones said. "Because it's been proven time and time again that we're on our own. The saddest part about that is that racism is not a Black issue that white people need to empathize with. Racism is a white problem. They caused it. They need to fix it. But I don't have faith anymore that that's going to happen."

This is a view that a shocking number of people hold. It's been hinted at for years....when ideas like white privilege were used to shame white people. It's the subtext when the same people tried to redefine racism as something only white people are guilty of. It's implied in ideas like "white fragility" and "whitesplaining".

A couple of years back, research showed that only white people....specifically white liberals....are the only racial group with an out-group bias. That means out of each racial group, only white people viewed themselves in a more negative way than others. A lot of conservatives found this amusing....I found it sad.

No one should ever be ashamed of their skin color. No one should view themselves in a negative way because of their skin color. This is a relatively new phenomenon and I can only imagine that it's because of the constant shaming and blaming of whites that has been allowed to go on for so long.

The reason it's gone on for so long is that BLM and other activists and race "scholars" have pushed this viewpoint and they do not allow for any honest and open debate or discussion (like the one I'm trying to have here). If you don't agree with them, you're labeled a racist and part of the problem. This creates an echo chamber where only one opinion is allowed. That's why we're seeing openly racist statements about white people (like the one above). That's why black people are advocating for discrimination against whites in job hiring (which I also have a thread on).

This is why I cannot support BLM even though I believe in racial equality and accountability for police. Their methods are faulty....and their message is too often deplorably racist.

There shouldn't be anything controversial about saying "All Lives Matter" or "It's ok to be white". Those are simple truths that everyone should agree with.

I could go on...but I fear I've lost most readers by now lol. I look forward to seeing your thoughts about this issue.

Lately I have some of the following observations and insights.


1) Social Justice warriors like to play both sides of an issue, I believe this is just an elaborate game of what was called in the old book "Games People Play", as "Now I've Got You, You Son of a B".

It's a cheap power grab maneuver of putting people on the defensive for anything they may have done in the past, perceived to have done, or in this case what their ancestors might have done, or the system may have done. And what's worse about it is people are not even consistent. At one time, it is bad to ignore black/ African culture, but when that changes and white people begin to embrace various cultural things, then the reverse thing happens where people do the opposite and complain about "cultural appropriation", all of this just points to things just being a power game/ grab of manipulation by the offended.

And I got more to say, but that will start things off.


Games People Play (book) - Wikipedia.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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2) Racism seems to be used as universal theory of why things are screwed up in the US. And well there are lots of other variables at work. I actually can point to a lot of things that happened with the Great Society of the 1960s that I think actually screwed things up systemically speaking.



3) Things will never get better as long as we tolerate reverse discrimination, where minorities do crimes, and openly discriminate against whites etc. because they feel it is OK, that they are entitled to do that etc.



4) Things will never get better until we address other problems like juvenile delinquency and single parent households etc. and stop blaming those problems on racism etc.
 
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childeye 2

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It's a problem with the psycho-linguistics inherent in conflating the meaning of race and racism.

We all have Human Genes, but which stock is better is a damned if you do and damned if you don't proposition founded on carnal vanity. The term Racism is easily conflated with race by not qualifying the difference between noticing we're all different with who is better or worse.

And this real carnal problem is exacerbated in the abstract when applied to a left/right dichotomy where the negative prejudice will inevitably form on two subjective sides as seeing we're different is not bad on one side, but is bad on the other.
 
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Noxot

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There is good in BLM. There is good in resisting the bad parts of BLM. We all have to be on guard or we could sink into the shadow of the image of the good. I think there is a difference between evolutionarily and unconsciously preferring those closer to your DNA and in the sickness of racism. Humans are complex enough to not easily be simplified into narrow categories. What's happening now will push some whites to become more racist, because they may feel threatened and desire those that are less likely to threaten them.

I think part of the problem is the left's idea that freedom of speech is evil. if freedom of speech is not good then Maybe sometimes you are allowed to say some things and not allowed to say other things. many in the BLM movement think it is not the right time to say all lives matter, they think that when we say such things that we are taking away from their movement and specific issue of black lives mattering.

I think that this is in part because many have too strong of a victim mentality. I kind of have a victim mentality too and it's something that can start to stagnate and rot you. I don't want to take away from the fact that black people do suffer unjustly sometimes, and even more than other racial groups in some ways and in some instances. But the reality is that people other than those that are black are still suffering in the world too. White people are not owning black slaves anymore and a lot of us feel guilt that that happened. But many of us also know that black people were not the only slaves and that throughout history peoples have enslaved others. Today's modern world is a much better place for black people nowadays, thank God.
 
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-57

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I am sorry my choice was not up there. Racism is not white only. People of other races are prejudice. Because I am white, I am racist is completely ridiculous. Racism is a prejudice against a person because of race. I am white and people are racist against me because of my skin color.

You are racist for whatever reason CNN or MSNBC says you are.......and don't you forget it.
 
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Broken Fence

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You are racist for whatever reason CNN or MSNBC says you are.......and don't you forget it.
I guess so. If the media and everyone says I am. Must be true. All I can say is people are lucky I know Jesus, because in my youth I would of been toe to toe with anyone who called me a racist. Lucky for me Jesus saved me and put real love in my heart. So all I can do is say God bless, may He guide you.
 
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I think it's an error to always look at things from the view of collectivism. The individual and the Collective are two sides of the same evolutionary coin.
 
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childeye 2

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I'd like this thread to be an honest open discussion about racism and the current iteration of the Black Lives Movement. I feel like that's something hard to do on this forum with all the flaming, and goading, and finger pointing. Please don't post some snarky 2 sentence joke or trolling statement, don't try to make this about Trump or any other politician. Please, try to make a thoughtful post that adds to the discussion.

In the past couple of weeks, I've noticed a more aggressive and more direct tone and message from the protesters, BLM, and it's supporters. The title of the thread is a phrase I've seen thrown around a lot. The phrase White Silence is Violence. It's also written as To Be Silent Is To Be Complicit. For example...

Black Lives Matter: Silence is 'complicity,' say many white protesters | News24

I disagree with the message. That simply isn't how problems work. The problem, generally speaking, is racism towards blacks. The word complicit has a pretty specific meaning....

Definition of COMPLICIT

helping to commit a crime or do wrong in some way

If I told you that staying silent about Islamic terrorism made you complicit, you would probably think I had gone bonkers. Simply not talking about a problem doesn't make you a part of the problem.

I also think it's wrong that this statement is, in any meaningful way, directed at white people....as if racism is all our fault. In many cases, I think the people saying it want white people to speak up against the racism they hear from other white people. The reality is though, that I along with many other white people, don't hear any racism from the people we are around the vast majority of the time. I work in law enforcement and I can honestly say I don't remember the last time any of my friends or coworkers said anything racist....even a little bit racist.

If you don't think this message is directed at white people....here's a recent example...

Steve Harvey Calls BLM Protests ‘One of the Greatest Movements Since the Civil Rights Movement’

Kimberly Jones is an Atlanta based BLM activist...

"I think the only way something is going to come out of this is if we start making the necessary changes ourselves," Jones said. "Because it's been proven time and time again that we're on our own. The saddest part about that is that racism is not a Black issue that white people need to empathize with. Racism is a white problem. They caused it. They need to fix it. But I don't have faith anymore that that's going to happen."

This is a view that a shocking number of people hold. It's been hinted at for years....when ideas like white privilege were used to shame white people. It's the subtext when the same people tried to redefine racism as something only white people are guilty of. It's implied in ideas like "white fragility" and "whitesplaining".

A couple of years back, research showed that only white people....specifically white liberals....are the only racial group with an out-group bias. That means out of each racial group, only white people viewed themselves in a more negative way than others. A lot of conservatives found this amusing....I found it sad.

No one should ever be ashamed of their skin color. No one should view themselves in a negative way because of their skin color. This is a relatively new phenomenon and I can only imagine that it's because of the constant shaming and blaming of whites that has been allowed to go on for so long.

The reason it's gone on for so long is that BLM and other activists and race "scholars" have pushed this viewpoint and they do not allow for any honest and open debate or discussion (like the one I'm trying to have here). If you don't agree with them, you're labeled a racist and part of the problem. This creates an echo chamber where only one opinion is allowed. That's why we're seeing openly racist statements about white people (like the one above). That's why black people are advocating for discrimination against whites in job hiring (which I also have a thread on).

This is why I cannot support BLM even though I believe in racial equality and accountability for police. Their methods are faulty....and their message is too often deplorably racist.

There shouldn't be anything controversial about saying "All Lives Matter" or "It's ok to be white". Those are simple truths that everyone should agree with.

I could go on...but I fear I've lost most readers by now lol. I look forward to seeing your thoughts about this issue.
Why would you start off a poll about negative prejudice with "white posters only"...? I'll be surprised if this thread is not closed according to the TOS.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I'd like this thread to be an honest open discussion about racism and the current iteration of the Black Lives Movement. I feel like that's something hard to do on this forum with all the flaming, and goading, and finger pointing. Please don't post some snarky 2 sentence joke or trolling statement, don't try to make this about Trump or any other politician. Please, try to make a thoughtful post that adds to the discussion.

In the past couple of weeks, I've noticed a more aggressive and more direct tone and message from the protesters, BLM, and it's supporters. The title of the thread is a phrase I've seen thrown around a lot. The phrase White Silence is Violence. It's also written as To Be Silent Is To Be Complicit. For example...

Black Lives Matter: Silence is 'complicity,' say many white protesters | News24

I disagree with the message. That simply isn't how problems work. The problem, generally speaking, is racism towards blacks. The word complicit has a pretty specific meaning....

Definition of COMPLICIT

helping to commit a crime or do wrong in some way

If I told you that staying silent about Islamic terrorism made you complicit, you would probably think I had gone bonkers. Simply not talking about a problem doesn't make you a part of the problem.

I also think it's wrong that this statement is, in any meaningful way, directed at white people....as if racism is all our fault. In many cases, I think the people saying it want white people to speak up against the racism they hear from other white people. The reality is though, that I along with many other white people, don't hear any racism from the people we are around the vast majority of the time. I work in law enforcement and I can honestly say I don't remember the last time any of my friends or coworkers said anything racist....even a little bit racist.

If you don't think this message is directed at white people....here's a recent example...

Steve Harvey Calls BLM Protests ‘One of the Greatest Movements Since the Civil Rights Movement’

Kimberly Jones is an Atlanta based BLM activist...

"I think the only way something is going to come out of this is if we start making the necessary changes ourselves," Jones said. "Because it's been proven time and time again that we're on our own. The saddest part about that is that racism is not a Black issue that white people need to empathize with. Racism is a white problem. They caused it. They need to fix it. But I don't have faith anymore that that's going to happen."

This is a view that a shocking number of people hold. It's been hinted at for years....when ideas like white privilege were used to shame white people. It's the subtext when the same people tried to redefine racism as something only white people are guilty of. It's implied in ideas like "white fragility" and "whitesplaining".

A couple of years back, research showed that only white people....specifically white liberals....are the only racial group with an out-group bias. That means out of each racial group, only white people viewed themselves in a more negative way than others. A lot of conservatives found this amusing....I found it sad.

No one should ever be ashamed of their skin color. No one should view themselves in a negative way because of their skin color. This is a relatively new phenomenon and I can only imagine that it's because of the constant shaming and blaming of whites that has been allowed to go on for so long.

The reason it's gone on for so long is that BLM and other activists and race "scholars" have pushed this viewpoint and they do not allow for any honest and open debate or discussion (like the one I'm trying to have here). If you don't agree with them, you're labeled a racist and part of the problem. This creates an echo chamber where only one opinion is allowed. That's why we're seeing openly racist statements about white people (like the one above). That's why black people are advocating for discrimination against whites in job hiring (which I also have a thread on).

This is why I cannot support BLM even though I believe in racial equality and accountability for police. Their methods are faulty....and their message is too often deplorably racist.

There shouldn't be anything controversial about saying "All Lives Matter" or "It's ok to be white". Those are simple truths that everyone should agree with.

I could go on...but I fear I've lost most readers by now lol. I look forward to seeing your thoughts about this issue.

I think there is a substantive semantic difference between saying "All Lives Matter" and "It's ok to be white." The former sounds like an effort to be attentive to issues of equality and/or egalitarianism; the latter sounds like a ploy by which White folks attempt to excuse themselves from proactive concerns about JUSTICE for everyone, everywhere.

o_O
 
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Broken Fence

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What is happening in the USA these days is terrible, there is no rationality in it anymore.

The USA are so much internally divided and whites are so weak to say "no! its enough". There is 13% of blacks in the US population but it seems that the whole world is about them. Because of media.

Many of them are not even descendants of the slaves, but immigrated to the USA later, as many of whites are not descendants of slave owners, but either immigrated to the USA later or simply their ancestors did not own slaves. But it seems today that all whites should be somehow punished for that history and that all blacks are victims of slavery and should be repaid. Which is of course absurd.

Well said.
 
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As Groucho Marx famously put it, I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member. That goes for every aspect of the Balkanization of society, racial or not. I don't go in for the modern social justice stuff or whatever, because I already have my own religion (so I don't need this cheap knockoff pseudo-religion), and there it's obvious that I'm a white person, and equally obvious that nobody cares. Funny how all this "systemic blahblahblah" stuff only works in America and other western countries, whereas in places where people face oppression that is at levels beyond what anyone in the USA is going through today, they're much, much tougher and don't resort to this kind of stereotyping or cleverly redefining 'bad' words in a way that (ahem) systematically excludes them from being guilty of what they say everyone else is guilty of merely by existing.

It should be obvious to everyone on Christian Forums of all places that life is much more difficult for a poor Coptic Christian in Egypt than it is for non-white people in general in the United States (due to matters that actually are encoded explicitly into the law code in Egypt that simply have no analogue in the West, such as article 2 of the Egyptian constitution mandating that all laws are to be in conformity with Islam), yet people in that country actually try to lessen the divide that exists between the communities (where, again, one is explicitly marked as socially 'better' in the law, so the hierarchy is clear) by seeking common ground (see video/song below), not by constantly rubbing it in the faces of the dominant group that they are responsible for how bad things are and for not 'centering' Coptic voices or whatever (again, there's no real analogue to this in Egypt, so that's not even the right way to put it; I just mean that most Muslims who I've talked to don't spend any amount of time feeling bad let alone guilty of anything for being Muslims, and most Coptic people don't ask them to):



Of course, that's not to say that there is no systematic racism in the sense of racial disparities being baked into the system in the USA (e.g., things like sentencing for identical drug offenses are often brought up); it just becomes a bit much when this way of looking at things so overwhelms the entire society so that the idea of interpersonal racism goes away, and suddenly it's like we're dealing with plastic models of entire populations, rather than people who live in the same society and have to learn to share better or else consign themselves to getting more and more neurotic and irrational about all of this stuff.

I'm 100% pro black lives matter (it'd be kind of hard to be in communion with 50+ million native Africans if I didn't care black people), but the social or political aspects of this stuff are not going to be replacing my conviction that we are all deserving of equal rights as people equally made in the image of God and equally beloved by Him, since all they have to offer in place of that is that I feel bad for being white and prostrate myself before them instead for the original sin of having a skin color I have no more control over than they have over their own. Nah. That's not what my grandmother came to this country from Mexico for, I don't think. If you want someone to agree with you that the cops murdered George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, and many other black people who didn't do anything that could've conceivably warranted lethal use of force, then I'm here for that, but not all this other stuff. Like a lot of revolutionary political movements, I think focus is being lost as more and more people join and expand the list of things they're looking to reform/destroy/replace, which is a shame because there really is a problem that the police can murder people and get away with it.
 
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