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HARK!

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We both need to identify WHO IS UNDER THE LAW, in this context. True or false?

That is exactly what I gathered and anylized the scripture to do. I understand it.

In Rom chapter 3 the Jews are Israel.

Faulty premise.

SO ISRAEL IS UNDER THE LAW.

Faulty conclusion.

Proving this context identify Jews as under the law.

Proving nothing.

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Rom 3:1

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much in every manner. For first, indeed, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God."


It's actually a no-brainer that Paul is referencing the Jews, as those who are under the law in Rom 3:19.

I think it would be fair to assume that the Jews would be included among every mouth in the entire world.

Let's read it again:

19 Now we are aware that, whatever the law is saying, it is speaking to those under the law, that every mouth may be barred, and the entire world may become subject to the just verdict of God,

Yes, it doesn't specifically say Jews; but I, sure that they would be included.

That's kinda funny. Your highlighted words are trying to say, the text is saying, the entire world is under the law

I don't know how you came to that conclusion. That's not what Paul said. He said that every mouth in the entire world may become subject to YHWH's just verdict.


and not the Jews.

Why would you suppose that "the Jews" would be excluded from every mouth in the entire world?

And that, everyone will be judged by the law.

That is not what this verse actually says. Let's read it again for clarity.

19 Now we are aware that, whatever the law is saying, it is speaking to those under the law, that every mouth may be barred, and the entire world may become subject to the just verdict of God,

Paul comments further on this subject here:


(CLV) Ro 2:12
for whoever sinned without law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.





That would contradict what Paul establishes as Christian doctrine in Rm 3:20 and 21. That judgement will not be by the law.

(CLV) Ro 3:20
because, by works of law, not flesh at all shall be justified in His sight, for through law is the recognition of sin.

(CLV) Ro 3:21
Yet now, apart from law, a righteousness of God is manifest (being attested by the law and the prophets),

This verse says that you won't be exonerated by works of law; but "works of law" opens up another can of Paul's beans.

The Judaeans we're well familiar with YHWH's Law (Torah), but they were also practicing Works of Law.

I don't see "Works of Law" mentioned in the Torah. I don't see any mention of it by Yahshua. Paul is the only one in the Bible to use this expression. Where is Paul getting this?

It is mentioned 6 times in Galatians, and maybe 2 times in Romans.
Galatians 2:16, 3:2, 3:5, 3:10 Romans 3:27, 9:32

It is also mentioned in the Qumran Scrolls.

Q394 (4QMMTa) 4QHalakhic Letter
Dead Sea Scrolls Project: 4QMMT

Definition of halacha
: the body of Jewish law supplementing the scriptural law and forming especially the legal part of the Talmud
Definition of HALACHA

Yahshua rebuked putting the traditions of men over the Torah. Yahshua kept the Torah and called us to follow his example. Paul followed yahshua's example and called us to follow his example.

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.
==========================================================

Here is what Paul says in Galatians 2 concerning works of law:

(CLV) Ga 2:16
having perceived that a man is not being justified by works of law, except alone through the faith of Christ Jesus, we also believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by the faith of Christ and not by works of law, seeing that by works of law shall not flesh at all be justified.

But here is what Paul said in Romans 2 concerning law:

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

Now either Paul can't keep his story straight; or works of law is different than law.


==========================================================

What is Paul referring to in Galatians 3:10?

Galatians 3

10 For whoever are of works of law are under a curse, for it written that, Accursed is everyone who is not remaining in all things written in the scroll of the law to do them.

Deuteronomy 27


15 Cursed be the man who makes a carving or a molten image, an abhorrence to Yahweh, the work of an artificer's hands, and places it in concealment. Then all the people will respond and say:Amen!" 16 Cursed be the one dishonoring his father or his mother. Then all the people shall say:Amen! 17 Cursed be the one moving the boundary marker of his associate. Then all the people will say:Amen! 18 Cursed be the one causing the blind to err on the road. Then all the people will say:Amen! 19 Cursed be the one turning aside the judgment of the sojourner, the orphan or the widow. Then all the people will say:Amen!" 20 Cursed be the one lying with the wife of his father, for he exposes his father's hem. Then all the people will say:Amen!" 21 Cursed be the one lying with any beast. Then all the people will say:Amen! 22 Cursed be the one lying with his sister, the daughter of his father or the daughter of his mother. Then all the people will say:Amen!" 23 Cursed be the one lying with his sister-in-law. Then all the people will say:Amen! 24 Cursed be the one smiting his associate in concealment. Then all the people will say:Amen! 25 Cursed be the one taking a bribe to smite a soul of innocent blood. Then all the people will say:Amen! 26 Cursed be the one who is not performing all the words of this law to do them. Then all the people will say:Amen!

Certainly he is not saying that Yahshua died so that we are free to take part in all of the wickedness.




That's what Rom 3:9 says... all under sin, not all under law.
Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

What is sin?

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Hark, Not so fast, Where does it say that the whole world will be judged by the law in Rom 3?

Paul defined two groups early in this letter. The chapters and verses were not in the original letter. These were added later. In order to truly grasp what Paul is attempting to say in this letter; it must be read as a letter.

(CLV) Ro 2:12
for whoever sinned without law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

There are those who will die; and there are those who will be judged.


What did I say that was not civil in that post? I brought up sin because Hebrew 3:9 said "all have sinned." You're claiming that bringing up sin means bringing up law breaking. Not true. You have a premise that; "sin is transgression of the law. NOT ME. My explanation of 1John 3:4 is different than yours. I don't agree that you can inject this premise on Paul, so that you can contradict Paul's authority and doctrine. As we walk through Rom 3, you pull the brakes on Paul right before he says in Rom 3:20-21 That God's judgement and righteousness will not be by the law.

This has nothing to do with Paul's authority. Scripture doesn't contradict itself. If there seems to be a contradiction; it is a sign that we are not properly understanding the scripture. Paul so not so easy to understand. However, Yahshua is crystal clear.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

Nothing Paul says can override Yahshua.
 
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HARK!

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LGW says the ten commandments are not the laws of sin and death And Paul says they are.

"Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory,....." 2Cor 3:7 Those commandments pointed out ten of the many sins man commits. Even if man could have kept from sinning against all the sins of the World they could not have given man eternal life. Death is a promise. Life after death is also a promise and that promise is "because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death." Rom 8:2 and "The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law." 1Cor 15:56 How glorious to know that the Holy Spirit succeeds the law that brought death.

"will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?" 2Cor 3:8 It is really impossible for man to know just how wonderful it is to have God within us as our guide. We are truly blessed. Our Savior died to do away with the laws of sin and death and give us the gift of the Spirit that guides us to everlasting life with the One who loves us so much that He was willing to leave His eternal home became man and faced all and more than we will ever face.

"If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!" 2Cor 3:9 The ministry of the Holy spirit guides man to eternal Glory. The ten commandments could only condemn man of ten sins and could not have any saving grace for those ten sins.

"For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory." 2Cor 3:10 The ten commandments contained only 10 sins, just the tip of the iceberg of sins man can and does against his fellow man and God. The Holy Spirit which replaced the ten as mans guide convicts us of all sin.

"And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!" 2Cor 3:11 The ten commandments were as Paul wrote temporary. They ended along with the rest of the law at Calvary. The Holy Spirit will be with us guiding us for ever.

LGW would rather believe and teach from the writings of a false prophet than to see and hear the truth from the Holy Writ. His rehearsed arguments sound plausible and to those who have not studied the real truth could even sound convincing. Buyer beware.

I find it interesting that Paul only mentions "The Law of Sin and Death" only once on all of scripture; but that you didn't present that verse.


Romans 8 (CLV)
1 Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit, 2 for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death.

Paul is presenting a dichotomy between two types of law. Paul was a lawyer. He speaks of at least 8 categories of law in this letter alone. Leave it to a lawyer...

Consequently? This is a conclusion. What is this conclusion drawn from?

Oh, here it is, in the verse right before it:

24 A wretched man am I! What will rescue me out of this body of death? Grace! 25 I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law."

Hmm...was there any bias in that chapter break? LOL!

Which of these two laws do you suppose reflects the Decalogue?


Leviticus 18:5
You are to observe my laws and rulings; if a person does them, he will have life through them; I am Adonai.

Ezekiel 18:27
And when the wicked person turns away from all the wickedness he has committed and does what is lawful and right, he will save his life.
 
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Bob S

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I find it interesting that Paul only mentions "The Law of Sin and Death" only once on all of scripture; but that you didn't present that verse.
Glad you found it interesting Hark. Why should I mention it, it had already been presented and Paul backed it up with the verses I presented? I find it interesting that you didn't write anything negative about my comparison.
 
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Bob S

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We already discussed this in previous posts in the past Bob. 2 Corinthians is talking about the MINISTRATION of the law, not the Ten Commandments itself. No where in the Ten Commandments does it give penalties or what to do for breaking those rules. The ministration is the sacrificial system, temple services, etc, etc...
Hi Andre, where does it say "the MINISTRATION of the law"? Why are you writing something that Scripture does not say? Why are you so bent on upholding ten commands as our guide when scripture tells us the Holy Spirit is our guide? By changing the meaning of scripture you are only showing us that your agenda supersedes what God has revealed to His ambassador, Paul. What was engraved in letters on stones that involved Moses? Paul says it was the ministry that brought death. 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, the ten commandments, came with glory,.....

I usually do not use the Living Bible Version, but in this case it really brings out the real truth of what we are debating.

2Cor 3:6 He is the one who has helped us tell others about his new agreement to save them. We do not tell them that they must obey every law of God or die; but we tell them there is life for them from the Holy Spirit. The old way, trying to be saved by keeping the Ten Commandments, ends in death; in the new way, the Holy Spirit gives them life.

7 Yet that old system of law that led to death began with such glory that people could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For as he gave them God’s law to obey, his face shone out with the very glory of God—though the brightness was already fading away. 8 Shall we not expect far greater glory in these days when the Holy Spirit is giving life? 9 If the plan that leads to doom was glorious, much more glorious is the plan that makes men right with God. 10 In fact, that first glory as it shone from Moses’ face is worth nothing at all in comparison with the overwhelming glory of the new agreement. 11 So if the old system that faded into nothing was full of heavenly glory, the glory of God’s new plan for our salvation is certainly far greater, for it is eternal.




It's telling you CLEARLY here that it this MINISTRY:
"If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!" 2Cor 3:9
Clearly it was the ten commandments. The ten could only condemn if one broke any one of them. In the case of the ten they posted on tables of stone pointing out a few of the acts man was not to do. A parallel would be a speed limit sign posted on a highway. Break the speed limit and if caught face a penalty. The sign doesn't specify the penalty, but it does tell us what is required and if broken brings on condemnation.

Proof that the commandments are still important and part of the NEW COVENANT. This shows how you do not understand what ministration means in 2 Cor 3:9
The word ministration isn't used. It is the ministry that brings condemnation if one does not abide by that ministry. It is you that are not correctly reading the verses.

New Covenant confirmed at the cross
Luke 22:20 "Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you."

According to the Commandment which was done after the New Covenant was confirmed.
Luke 23:56 "And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment."
That does not indicate that anyone was still under the rules of the old covenant. They, at that point, had not understood hardly anything that was later reveled by Paul and other men that God used to administer the glorious new covenant.

Psalm 119:
44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
46 I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.
47 And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.
48 My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.

Psalm 119 shows David loving the commandments and that he will walk at LIBERTY!
David only knew the laws God had given Israel. The were perfect for Israel. God doesn't do anything that is not perfect. The fact is that the laws of the covenant made at Sinai were repeatedly broken and the rules of the covenant made it clear that if the Israelites broke those rules the covenant would become void. No covenant , no rules of that covenant.

This obviously proves that the ministration change of 2 Corinthians 3 is Moses to Jesus NOT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.
Obviously as mud. The verses tell us the ministry change is the ministry of the ten commandments to the ministry of the Holy Spirit. That is what is obvious. You are teaching a great error Andre.

You cannot minister without a law. Moses shone with Glory and it's also what it's talking about because the glory of God reflected in his face but it faded, just like his ministry.
Really??? What was Jesus doing then when He ministered the Beatitudes to the people. The ten commandments came with glory. Actually, your statement is a disjointed theory.
 
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Lost4words

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Nonsense. Although the Catholic Church may say Gods 10 commandments are the moral foundation which they are, they do not keep God's 2nd commandment and have changed the 4th. It seems you do not know what legalism is or that your following the Catholic teachings of Sunday worship which has led many to break Gods' 4th commandments which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. *ROMANS 3:20. No one follows the Spirit of the law by ignoring the letter of the law that the Spirit works from as God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God and works through the Word not outside of it *JOHN 6:63; JOHN 17:17. BABYLON has fallen has fallen dear friend. Time to return back to the pure Word of God.

God's Sheep hear His Voice.

Going by what you write, it seems that you very much misunderstand scripture and have no idea of Catholicism at all.

God bless you
 
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HARK!

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Glad you found it interesting Hark. Why should I mention it, it had already been presented and Paul backed it up with the verses I presented? I find it interesting that you didn't write anything negative about my comparison.

Well, at least other than that Paul himself contradicts your attempted contradiction of LGW, in Paul's only mention of the language in question.
 
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Bob S

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Bob your trying to argue a point away from context in your post here. The context we are discussing is ROMANS 6; ROMANS 7 and ROMANS 8 not the two covenants of 2 CORINTHIANS 3:11.
2Cor 3:6-11 very much parallels Rom 7:6. 2Cor tells us we are no longer under the guidance of the ten commandments, the written code. We are under the new way of the Holy Spirit guiding us into a righteous life in Christ.
6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, (the ministry that brought death) we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

It is God's Word not mine that says that the law of sin and death in Romans is the unconverted carnal mind, flesh or sinful nature not me as shown in these scriptures...
I do not understand "not me". Please show us where in scripture we can find a description of the law of sin and death. A much better rendition of Rom 8:2 is "the POWER of sin that leads to death". The ten commandments, if not kept perfectly condemned the Israelite to death. Sin is a powerful force. In Rom 7 Paul writes about himself and the fight he has to contend with because of sins power over him. 2Cor 3 confirms this fact.

Bob what do you think the new covenant is and how does it differ from the old covenant? The bible does not teach what you are teaching here Bob.
You ask me a question and before I can answer it you tell me, according to you, I am teaching something other that what the Bible is teaching. Great debating. Well, according to all that you write you are trying to defend, with scripture, that we are under the ten commandments and the fact is that only Israel was under all of those 10 commands. Gentiles, which make up the remainder of the World's population, have never been under all of those 10 commands. You are telling us we have to do something that God never asked of us. Now who is it that is teaching falsehood?


Sin is the breaking of anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following God's Word and the wages of sin is death. Gods Law (10 commandments) only gives us a knowledge of what sin is and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith and is a part of the everlasting gospel.
What a narrow minded view of what is sin. Sin is all acts against another person or our God. The nine acts against God and man are just the iceberg of moral issues. That is why Jesus gave us a new command to love others as He loves us. That command supersedes all commands dealing with morality. All of the ritual commands, which included the weekly Sabbath, were given to one nation, Israel.
 
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HARK!

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That is why Jesus gave us a new command to love others as He loves us. That command supersedes all commands dealing with morality.

Not according to Yahshua.

(CLV) Mt 22:36
"Teacher, what is the great precept in the law?"

(CLV) Mt 22:37
Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole comprehension.

(CLV) Mt 22:38
This is the great and foremost precept.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Going by what you write, it seems that you very much misunderstand scripture and have no idea of Catholicism at all.
God bless you

Perhaps more then you think dear friend. What is it that you disagree with?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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2Cor 3:6-11 very much parallels Rom 7:6. 2Cor tells us we are no longer under the guidance of the ten commandments, the written code. We are under the new way of the Holy Spirit guiding us into a righteous life in Christ.
Yes and no Bob, we have to have the written code to give us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7. We are not saved by it and neither do we get our righteousness from it *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. God's law only gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7. If we do not know what sin is, we have no knowledge of sin and we do not know that we are all sinners in need of salvation from our sins and have no need of Christ which is the role of God's Law in the new covenant *GALATIANS 3:22-25. It is the letter of the law that brings condemnation and death. It is the Spirit of the law that brings life and peace through the promises of God's Word as we believe them which is the new covenant. The two together are a part of the same Gospel of our Lord JESUS CHRIST.
6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, (the ministry that brought death) we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
ROMANS 7:6 "DYING TO WHAT ONCE BOUND US" IS SIN and sins condemnation and penalty which is death *ROMANS 6:23. Sin has bound us and Gods' law simply gives us the knowledge of what sin is, as stated in ROMANS 7:7 which is the next verse after ROMANS 7:6. This is showing the contexts of ROMANS 7:6 in ROMANS 7:5 which says "For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit to death" and ROMANS 7:7 that states the Law gives us a knowledge of. Your disregarding scripture context.
I do not understand "not me". Please show us where in scripture we can find a description of the law of sin and death. A much better rendition of Rom 8:2 is "the POWER of sin that leads to death". The ten commandments, if not kept perfectly condemned the Israelite to death. Sin is a powerful force. In Rom 7 Paul writes about himself and the fight he has to contend with because of sins power over him. 2Cor 3 confirms this fact.
You were provided the bibles definition of the law of sin and death already through the scriptures in ROMANS 7:7. God's Law simply gives us a knowledge of what sin is and sin brings death. The law is not sin but Holy, Just and Good. It is all of us who are not good because we sin and have a sinful nature (carnal mind). The law of sin and death as shown in ROMANS 8:1-4 is the sinful human nature. This is proven and shown in the context of ROMANS 8:1-4 in ROMANS 7:5 and ROMANS 7:23. Please read the scriptures as they were previously provided to you. They are God's Words not mine.
You ask me a question and before I can answer it you tell me, according to you, I am teaching something other that what the Bible is teaching. Great debating. Well, according to all that you write you are trying to defend, with scripture, that we are under the ten commandments and the fact is that only Israel was under all of those 10 commands. Gentiles, which make up the remainder of the World's population, have never been under all of those 10 commands. You are telling us we have to do something that God never asked of us. Now who is it that is teaching falsehood?
Bob, I asked you the question on what you think the new covenant is in order to help the discussion as I think this is where I believe you may not have a correct understanding of the scriptures as there is no where in the old and new testament scriptures that teach God's 10 commandments written with the finger of God on two tables of stone are abolished. This is not biblical as shown in the scriptures provided in previous posts. They are God's great moral standard of right and wrong, good and evil, sin and righteousness *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7: 1 JOHN 3:4 and if we knowingly break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11: HEBREWS 10:26-31. This includes God's 4th commandment "seventh day Sabbath" which is God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is. Not believing and following God's Word is also sin *ROMANS 14:23. According to the scriptures all those who knowingly practice sin do not enter into God's kingdom because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *HEBREWS 10:26-31.
What a narrow minded view of what is sin. Sin is all acts against another person or our God. The nine acts against God and man are just the iceberg of moral issues. That is why Jesus gave us a new command to love others as He loves us. That command supersedes all commands dealing with morality. All of the ritual commands, which included the weekly Sabbath, were given to one nation, Israel.
You may need to take that one up with God dear friend. I have only posted God's definitions of sin which is God's Word not mine. God's Word says (not me) that sin includes breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following God's Word *ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; ROMANS 14:23. God's Word says (not me) that God's 10 commandments give us the knowledge of right and wrong, good and evil, sin and righteousness *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7: 1 JOHN 3:4 and if we knowingly break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11: HEBREWS 10:26-31. Now what is it that you do not understand dear friend?

Hope this helps Bob.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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@Bob S this may be helpful Bob...

2 CORINTHIANS 3:1-14
[1], Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, letters of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
[2], you are our letter written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
[3], For as much as you are manifestly declared to be the letter of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.

Note: in [v3] that Paul is stating that the Corinthians here are letters of Christ ministered by Paul and his companions “written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone (reference to the 10 commandments) but IN the fleshly tables of the HEART! Pauls reference here is to Gods new covenant promise of JEREMIASH 31:31-34 repeated by Paul in HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT that i will make with the house of israel after those days, said the lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a god, and they shall be to me a people.

So the context here is the ministration (Paul and his companions being the ministers) of the new covenant Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ of which the Corinthians are examples who have been given a new heart to love God and walk in his commandments which is the new covenant promise of JEREMIAH 31:31-34 repeated by Paul in HEBREWS 8:10-12 and HEBREWS 10:15-17.

[4], And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
[5], Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God.
[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW COVENANT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

Note: in [6] the context are repeated from [v3] that is that Paul and his companions were the MINISTERS of the NEW COVENANT. “NOT OF THE LETTER OF THE LAW BUT OF THE SPIRIT; FOR THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE”.

Note: no where here does [v6] teach that God’s law is abolished. It simply states that “the letter killeth” that is the letter of the law gives us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 when God’s 10 commandments are broken and the penalty of sin is death *ROMANS 6:21-23; ROMANS 8:13 but it is not able to save us from sin and change our hearts to love and follow God.

Note: in [v6] continued “FOR THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE” reference to the new covenant promise of JEREMIAH 31:31-34; HEBREWS 8:10-12 and HEBREWS 10:15-17. The Jews had the letter of the law but did not have the Spirit of the law. JESUS said to the Jews that “unless your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven” *MATTHEW 5:20; MATTHEW 23:13. The Scribes and Pharisees had the letter of the law but not the Spirit of the law. They had the outward appearance as to what the law required but not the change of heart that the new covenant promised *JEREMIAH 31:31-34; HEBREWS 8:10-12; HEBREWS 10:15-17. “THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE”. They had the letter or outward forms and ceremonies but were not born again *JOHN 3:3-7; 1 JOHN 3:6-9 by the Spirit to love through a change of heart by the Spirit that brings life. On the OUTSIDE the Scribes and Pharisees appeared righteous to men but inwardly they were breaking God’s law and were full of dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:25:28.

JESUS came to magnify the LAW from the INSIDE OUT quoting MATTHEW 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *ISAIAH 42:21. This is to show that unless our RIGHTOUESNESS EXCEEDS the RIGHTOUESNESS of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. EVIL begins in the HEART. BREAKING GOD's 10 COMMANDMENTS from the heart defile a man *MATTHEW 15:18-19. JESUS is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:27-28.

JESUS magnified the LAW to the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the HEART (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the NEW COVENANT promise to LOVE and need to be BORN AGAIN by Faith in God's WORD for salvation to be free from SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

This is leading to the NEW COVENANT PROMISE of a NEW HEART to LOVE *HEBREWS 8:10-12; JOHN 5:42; 1 JOHN 5:17-19; 1 JOHN 4:16; 1 JOHN 5:3; 1 JOHN 4:8.

We do not have the LOVE of GOD in us *JOHN 5:42. We need to be BORN OF GOD to LOVE *1 JOHN 4:7 and partake of the NEW COVENANT promise. This is why JESUS teaches in *JOHN 3:3-7 that UNLESS we are made CLEAN from the INSIDE OUT and BORN AGAIN to LOVE we cannot enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. This is what JESUS is talking about in MATTHEW 5:20 when discussing the Scribes and the Pharisees teaching the application of God's LAW from the INSIDE OUT.

Whosoever is BORN of GOD to LOVE in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12 does not commit SIN *1 JOHN 3:9; ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12; ROMANS 3:31; MATTHEW 22:36-40. This is the GOOD NEWS of the Gospels in the NEW COVENANT we have a SAVIOUR to save us from sin (not in sin) but we have to be made new to walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 8:1-4.

1 JOHN 3:3-10 is talking about all those who are BORN AGAIN to LOVE and it is LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This results in a people that keep God's LAW (10 commandments) from the INSIDE OUT. *REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; HEBREWS 8:10-12. Unless we are BORN AGAIN to LOVE we cannot enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7.

[7], BUT IF THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED IN STONES, WAS GLORIOUS, SO THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL COULD NOT STEADFASTLY BEHOLD THE FACE OF MOSES FOR THE GLORY OF HIS COUNTENANCE; WHICH GLORY WAS TO BE DONE AWAY:

Note: It is condemnation and death (sin) that is to be done away with and the letter through the Spirit not God’s law as God’s law is not sin but is Holy, Just and Good * ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 7:11-12 and gives us a knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7 and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25

[8], HOW SHALL NOT THE MINISTRATION OF THE SPIRIT BE RATHER GLORIOUS?
[9], FOR IF THE MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION BE GLORY, MUCH MORE DOES THE MINISTRATION OF RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCEED IN GLORY.

Note: The 10 commandments (the letter) written on stone is the “MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION” that is it condemns sin or the breaking of God’s 10 commandments. It brings a knowledge is sin and condemnation brings the guilt of sin which is death. Through the Spirit of JESUS our sins are forgiven as we have faith in God’s Word *JOHN 3:16-19; 1 JOHN 1:9 and His Spirit through faith in the Word of God *JOHN 6:63 changes our heart *HEBREWS 8:10-12 to love and obedience that leads to righteousness *ROMANS 13:8-10; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4; ROMANS 6:14:16; ROMANS 1:5; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-9; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14.

[10], FOR EVEN THAT WHICH WAS MADE GLORIOUS HAD NO GLORY IN THIS RESPECT, BY REASON OF THE GLORY THAT EXCELS.
[11], FOR IF THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, MUCH MORE THAT WHICH REMAINS IS GLORIOUS.

Note: The purpose of God’s law was only to give us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20 and to lead us to JESUS *GALATIANS 3:22-25. It could never change us and free us from the power and condemnation of sin. The old covenant Sanctuary laws for remission of sins (burnt offerings and animal sacrifices and blood offerings) pointed to JESUS and God’s plan of salvation in the new covenant and God’s promise of salvation from sin’s power *JEREMIAH 31:31-34; HEBREWS 8:10-12; HEBREWS 10:15-17; JOHN 8:31-36; 1 JOHN 3:6-9.

[12], Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
[13], AND NOT AS MOSES, WHICH PUT A VEIL OVER HIS FACE, THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL COULD NOT STEADFASTLY LOOK TO THE END OF THAT WHICH IS ABOLISHED:

Note: the veil to be abolished is the “letter of condemnation and sin” which leads to the Spirit of life which is received by faith in God’s Word that leads us to the Spirit of Christ that works in us to love *PHILIPPIANS 2:13; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4; GALATIANS 3:22-25; GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 JOHN 3:6-9; REVELATION 14:12.

[14], BUT THEIR MINDS WERE BLINDED: FOR UNTIL THIS DAY REMAINS THE SAME VEIL NOT TAKEN AWAY IN THE READING OF THE OLD TESTAMENT; WHICH VEIL IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST.
[15], BUT EVEN TO THIS DAY, WHEN MOSES IS READ, THE VEIL IS ON THEIR HEART.

Note: Following the “letter of the law”(old covenant) only leads to the outward appearance of righteousness condemned by JESUS when talking to the Scribes and Pharisees as highlighted above and in MATTHEW 5:20; MATTHEW 23:13 MATTHEW 23:25-28. We need to be saved from the INSIDE and receive a new heart to love. Outward obedience to God’s law does not save us because sin originates from the heart *MATTHEW 5:17-27.

[16], NEVERTHELESS WHEN IT SHALL TURN TO THE LORD, THE VEIL SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY.
[17], NOW THE LORD IS THAT SPIRIT: AND WHERE THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS, THERE IS LIBERTY.
[18], BUT WE ALL, WITH OPEN FACE BEHOLDING AS IN A GLASS THE GLORY OF THE LORD, ARE CHANGED INTO THE SAME IMAGE FROM GLORY TO GLORY, EVEN AS BY THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD.

The Spirit of the law is JESUS and God’s new covenant promise of salvation from sin and a new heart to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; Whosoever is born of God does not practice sin *1 JOHN 3:6-9. Sin is breaking anyone of God’s 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11 or not believing and following Gods’ Word *ROMANS 14:23.

Sorry Bob, it seem God’s Word disagrees with you and is not teaching what you are.

Hope this is helpful
 
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Bob S

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Sorry LGW, sin is: not loving our God and our fellow man. The ten commandments list nine ways we sin against God and our fellow man. Paul, in Gal 5, lists seventeen plus there are many more ways we sin. He tells us if we allow the Spirit to lead us we are not even under the ten commandments.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;
Adultery,
fornication,
uncleanness,
lasciviousness,
Idolatry,
witchcraft,
hatred,
variance,
emulations,
wrath,
strife,
seditions,
heresies,
Envyings,
murders,
drunkenness,
revellings,
and such like:
of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Notice that of all the list of sins we can commit Paul doesn't list the old covenant law of Sabbath keeping. You know, the one command Ellen White tells the flock is so important that it has a halo around it. Paul's list lists some of the ways we can harm ourselves and our fellow man when we have not love. He goes on to tell us that if our hearts are right with God because we now have the gift of the Holy Spirit as our guide our fruits are;
joy,
peace,
longsuffering,
gentleness,
goodness,
faith,
Meekness,
temperance

Notice in in the list of the fruits of the Spirit there again is nothing about the command with the halo around it.

The fact is LGW Paul in his letter to the Corinthians told them them the same thing as He told the Galatians. if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 2Cor 3: tells us that the ten commandments, as the guide for Israel, have been replaced by the Holy Spirit. The following taken from your post in capitol letters reveals that the ten commandments have been replaced by the Holy spirit;

[8], HOW SHALL NOT THE MINISTRATION OF THE SPIRIT BE RATHER GLORIOUS?
[9], FOR IF THE MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION BE GLORY, MUCH MORE DOES THE MINISTRATION OF RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCEED IN GLORY.

In your post you wrote; "Note: no where here does [v6] teach that God’s law is abolished. It simply states that “the letter killeth” that is the letter of the law gives us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20;" You are correct. Pray tell us why you even mentioned that fact? It was not supposed to reveal that fact. The abolish fact fact came later in verse ten and eleven which you also put in capitol letters, but because of your preconceived beliefs wouldn't consider; [10], FOR EVEN THAT WHICH WAS MADE GLORIOUS HAD NO GLORY IN THIS RESPECT, BY REASON OF THE GLORY THAT EXCELS.
[11], FOR IF THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, MUCH MORE THAT WHICH REMAINS IS GLORIOUS. "Done away" absolutely tells us the ten commandments were indeed abolished.

You use the fact that Jesus magnified the law as, I suppose, you are trying to tell me that since He did that it somehow is more our guide now than it was for those it was given. The fact is Jesus magnified laws from the ten commandments and the laws He had Moses write in the book.(603) Why is it you don't abide by the laws of the 603 that would pertain to someone like you that Moses wrote in the book? Jesus did.

You tell me, in your post, it is the ten commandments that is written on our hearts. Who gave you the authority to teach that? Where do you find that in all of scripture? Certainly "My laws" do not indicate that they are the now defunct ten commandments. Jesus magnified laws from the laws He dictated to Moses, are they included? God gave Abraham a law that he and his offspring were to be circumcised, so is that written in our hearts. How about God's law given to Noah which allowed him to eat the flesh of every thing? Is the law from the dictated laws of what flesh the Israelites could not eat written in our hearts? Is the Sabbath law written in our hearts LGW? Why, if it is, wasn't it revealed to your prophet through the Holy Spirit? It was Joseph Bates that told her about some people he ran across who were keeping Sabbath. She then ran with the news and when the churches didn't buy into her new found "truth" she named them Babylon and accepted the theory that the Pope is the anti christ.

Jesus said He came to fulfill the law and the prophets. Fulfill means to bring to an end. Everything Paul wrote indicates that indeed Jesus did just that. Eph 2:15




 
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LoveGodsWord

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Sorry LGW, sin is: not loving our God and our fellow man. The ten commandments list nine ways we sin against God and our fellow man. Paul, in Gal 5, lists seventeen plus there are many more ways we sin. He tells us if we allow the Spirit to lead us we are not even under the ten commandments.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;
Adultery,
fornication,
uncleanness,
lasciviousness,
Idolatry,
witchcraft,
hatred,
variance,
emulations,
wrath,
strife,
seditions,
heresies,
Envyings,
murders,
drunkenness,
revellings,
and such like:
of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Notice that of all the list of sins we can commit Paul doesn't list the old covenant law of Sabbath keeping. You know, the one command Ellen White tells the flock is so important that it has a halo around it. Paul's list lists some of the ways we can harm ourselves and our fellow man when we have not love. He goes on to tell us that if our hearts are right with God because we now have the gift of the Holy Spirit as our guide our fruits are;
joy,
peace,
longsuffering,
gentleness,
goodness,
faith,
Meekness,
temperance
Notice in in the list of the fruits of the Spirit there again is nothing about the command with the halo around it.

The fact is LGW Paul in his letter to the Corinthians told them them the same thing as He told the Galatians. if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 2Cor 3: tells us that the ten commandments, as the guide for Israel, have been replaced by the Holy Spirit. The following taken from your post in capitol letters reveals that the ten commandments have been replaced by the Holy spirit;

[8], HOW SHALL NOT THE MINISTRATION OF THE SPIRIT BE RATHER GLORIOUS?
[9], FOR IF THE MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION BE GLORY, MUCH MORE DOES THE MINISTRATION OF RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCEED IN GLORY.

In your post you wrote; "Note: no where here does [v6] teach that God’s law is abolished. It simply states that “the letter killeth” that is the letter of the law gives us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20;" You are correct. Pray tell us why you even mentioned that fact? It was not supposed to reveal that fact. The abolish fact fact came later in verse ten and eleven which you also put in capitol letters, but because of your preconceived beliefs wouldn't consider; [10], FOR EVEN THAT WHICH WAS MADE GLORIOUS HAD NO GLORY IN THIS RESPECT, BY REASON OF THE GLORY THAT EXCELS.
[11], FOR IF THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, MUCH MORE THAT WHICH REMAINS IS GLORIOUS. "Done away" absolutely tells us the ten commandments were indeed abolished.

You use the fact that Jesus magnified the law as, I suppose, you are trying to tell me that since He did that it somehow is more our guide now than it was for those it was given. The fact is Jesus magnified laws from the ten commandments and the laws He had Moses write in the book.(603) Why is it you don't abide by the laws of the 603 that would pertain to someone like you that Moses wrote in the book? Jesus did.

You tell me, in your post, it is the ten commandments that is written on our hearts. Who gave you the authority to teach that? Where do you find that in all of scripture? Certainly "My laws" do not indicate that they are the now defunct ten commandments. Jesus magnified laws from the laws He dictated to Moses, are they included? God gave Abraham a law that he and his offspring were to be circumcised, so is that written in our hearts. How about God's law given to Noah which allowed him to eat the flesh of every thing? Is the law from the dictated laws of what flesh the Israelites could not eat written in our hearts? Is the Sabbath law written in our hearts LGW? Why, if it is, wasn't it revealed to your prophet through the Holy Spirit? It was Joseph Bates that told her about some people he ran across who were keeping Sabbath. She then ran with the news and when the churches didn't buy into her new found "truth" she named them Babylon and accepted the theory that the Pope is the anti christ.

Jesus said He came to fulfill the law and the prophets. Fulfill means to bring to an end. Everything Paul wrote indicates that indeed Jesus did just that. Eph 2:15

No need to be sorry Bob. Your misreading the scriptures. I did not think you would address the last two posts on 2 CORINTHIANS 3 or respond to them. Thats ok as you are free to believe as you wish as we all answer only to God come judgement day as we are to all work out our own salvation with fear and trembling according to the scriptures. I believe God's Word has been shared with you. It is you choice to believe the scriptures share with you or not believe them. I do not judge you as this is between you and God. Much of your post here is already answered in the second post to you on the new covenant and what it means to be born again to love (last one above yours).

It is true that sin is not loving God and your fellow man. According to the scriptures no one loves God or their neighbore by breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments.

We do not love God by...

1. Having other God's *EXODUS 20:3
2. Making idols and bowing down to them and worshipping them *EXODUS 20:4-5
3. Using God's name in vain *EXODUS 20:7
4. Forgetting God's "seventh day" Sabbath and not keeping it Holy and working on it *EXODUS 20:8-11

Just the same as we do not love our neighbour by...

5. Not honouring our parents *EXODUS 20:12
6. Killing our neighbour*EXODUS 20:13
7. Committing adultery with their spouses *EXODUS 20:14
8. Stealing from them *EXODUS 20:15
9. Lying to them *EXODUS 20:16
10. Coveting what they have been given from God *EXODUS 20:17

This is why JESUS says "ON THESE TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS OF LOVE TO GOD AND MAN" HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets. *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

You cannot separate love from obedience to God's law as it is only through a new heart to love *JOHN 3:3-7; JOHN 5:42; HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:6-9 that God's law is expressed *ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12 and established *ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4 in the lives of those who believe Gods' Word and walk in God's Spirit *GALATAINS 5:16 and been born again through faith to love *1 JOHN 3:6-9; 1 JOHN 4:7; 1 JOHN 5:4; 1 JOHN 5:18.

If you read my posts to you and the scriptures in them, then you would know that the new heart that is given the believer is a new heart to love. It is by love that God's people keep God's commandments. We do not keep God's commandments to be saved as we are already saved by faith as we continue in God's Word (present tense). It is because we love God that we keep his commandments. We need to be born again to Love BOB and love establishes God's law in the life of those who believe Gods' word and walk in his Spirit.

The rest of your post here is repitition already covered in earlier posts.

Sorry Bob, you are mistaken if you think you can love God and your neighbore by breaking anyone of God's 10 commandment when JESUS says on these two great commandments of love hang all the law and the prophets. Love is expressed through obedience to God's law. Without love all we can do is sin. Abide in me and I in you without me you can no nothing. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. God is love and this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God.

Do you know these scriptures Bob? No one loves God or their fellow man by breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.
 
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No need to be sorry Bob. Your misreading the scriptures. I did not think you would address the last two posts on 2 CORINTHIANS 3 or respond to them. Thats ok as you are free to believe as you wish as we all answer only to God come judgement day as we are to all work out our own salvation with fear and trembling according to the scriptures. I believe God's Word has been shared with you. Much of your post here is already answered in the second post to you on the new covenant and what it means to be born again to love (last one above yours).
What you believe doesn't jive with what is the real truth. You thought wrong too because I indeed did answer your last two posts The fact is you cannot refute what I wrote, so you conveniently skip over or ignore the real truth in favor of what you have been taught by Ellen White. I will supply you what I wrote about 2Cor 3

The fact is LGW Paul in his letter to the Corinthians told them them the same thing as He told the Galatians. if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 2Cor 3: tells us that the ten commandments, as the guide for Israel, have been replaced by the Holy Spirit. The following taken from your post in capitol letters reveals that the ten commandments have been replaced by the Holy spirit;
[8], HOW SHALL NOT THE MINISTRATION OF THE SPIRIT BE RATHER GLORIOUS?
[9], FOR IF THE MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION BE GLORY, MUCH MORE DOES THE MINISTRATION OF RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCEED IN GLORY.

In your post you wrote; "Note: no where here does [v6] teach that God’s law is abolished. It simply states that “the letter killeth” that is the letter of the law gives us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20;" You are correct. Pray tell us why you even mentioned that fact? I asked you a question and you just ignored it It was not supposed to reveal that fact. The abolish fact came later in verse ten and eleven which you also put in capitol letters, but because of your preconceived beliefs wouldn't consider; [10], FOR EVEN THAT WHICH WAS MADE GLORIOUS HAD NO GLORY IN THIS RESPECT, BY REASON OF THE GLORY THAT EXCELS.
[11], FOR IF THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, MUCH MORE THAT WHICH REMAINS IS GLORIOUS. "Done away" absolutely tells us the ten commandments were indeed abolished. You ignored this fact.

You use the fact that Jesus magnified the law as, I suppose, you are trying to tell me that since He did that it somehow is more our guide now than it was for those it was given. The fact is Jesus magnified laws from the ten commandments and the laws He had Moses write in the book.(603) Why is it you don't abide by the laws of the 603 that would pertain to someone like you that Moses wrote in the book? Jesus did. Why did you completely ignore the question?

You tell me, in your post, it is the ten commandments that is written on our hearts. Who gave you the authority to teach that? Another question you ignored Where do you find that in all of scripture? Another ignored question Certainly "My laws" do not indicate that they are the now defunct ten commandments. Jesus magnified laws from the laws He dictated to Moses, are they included? Boy, you will not respond to anything will you God gave Abraham a law that he and his offspring were to be circumcised, so is that written in our hearts. How about God's law given to Noah which allowed him to eat the flesh of every thing? one more question unanswered Is the law from the dictated laws of what flesh the Israelites could not eat written in our hearts? Another Is the Sabbath law written in our hearts LGW? Why, if it is, wasn't it revealed to your prophet through the Holy Spirit? Now that one baffles me completely. You tell us it is the ten commandments that is written on our hearts and yet even the so called more than a prophet never felt any urge to honor the command. You could have made some points if you could have or would have answered that It was Joseph Bates that told her about some people he ran across who were keeping Sabbath. She then ran with the news and when the churches didn't buy into her new found "truth" she named them Babylon and accepted the theory that the Pope is the anti christ.

Jesus said He came to fulfill the law and the prophets. Fulfill means to bring to an end. Everything Paul wrote indicates that indeed Jesus did just that. Eph 2:15

It is true that sin is not loving God and your fellow man.
You agreed with my statement which makes the statement you made about the ten being what points out sin inherently wrong or issues with morality toward God and our fellow man very incomplete. Plus since God gave the ten only to Israel they do not even pertain to us.

According to the scriptures no one loves God or their neighbor by breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments.
What scripture. You reference more scripture that anyone I have ever debated with and yet at certain times you are vague or don't reference anything.


We do not love God by...

1. Having other God's *EXODUS 20:3
2. Making idols and bowing down to them and worshipping them *EXODUS 20:4-5
3. Using God's name in vain *EXODUS 20:7
4. Forgetting God's "seventh day" Sabbath and not keeping it Holy *EXODUS 20:8-11

Just the same as we do not love our neighbour by...

5. Not honouring our parents *EXODUS 20:12
6. Killing them *EXODUS 20:13
7. Committing adultery with their spouses *EXODUS 20:14
8. Stealing from them *EXODUS 20:15
9. Lying to them *EXODUS 20:16
10. Coveting what they have been given from God *EXODUS 20:17

This is why JESUS says "ON THESE TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS OF LOVE TO GOD AND MAN" HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets. *MATTHEW 22:36-40.
Yes, Jesus made that point and you narrow mindlessly omit 603 laws of the old covenant and all the previous laws God has given to man and focus on just those incomplete ten commands. It seems like you think those nine commands are all the ways man can and does harm God and his fellow man. That is so completely wrong.

You cannot separate love from obedience to God's law as it is only through a new heart to love *JOHN 3:3-7; JOHN 5:42; HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:6-9 that God's law is expressed *ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12 and established *ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4 in the lives of those who believe Gods' Word and walk in God's Spirit *GALATAINS 5:16.
Why would you post Jn 5:42???? 42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. Are you using scripture to tell me what you really think of me?

If you read my posts to you and the scriptures in them, then you would know that the new heart that is given the believer is a new heart to love. It is by love that God's people keep God's commandments. We do not keep God's commandments to be saved as we are already saved by faith as we continue in God's Word (present tense). It is because we love God that we keep his commandments. We need to be born again to Love BOB and love establishes God's law in the life of those who believe Gods' word and walk in his Spirit.
If you are a true SDA then you know that the church teaches that in order to be saved you must "keep" the Sabbath command. Plus the fact that you are told never to say you are saved. Your statement doesn't ring true with your belief system. You pride yourselves on being God's commandment keeping people. SDAs may keep from killing someone, but as far as keeping the Sabbath given only to one nation, Israel, I have never met one that really keeps it as required by the rules set forth in the old covenant. Your prophet tells you that you have to become perfect because in the end you will be standing alone without Jesus the mediator. That is pretty close to saying you have to keep the laws of the Sinai covenant in order to be saved which refutes your statement. I certainly would not want to involve myself in a system that teaches such things. A system that is telling the world that they cannot be saved unless they become Sabbath keepers is not Biblical.

The rest of your post here is repitition already covered in earlier posts.
And yours aren't?

Sorry Bob, you are mistaken if you think you can love God and your neighbore by breaking anyone of God's 10 commandment when JESUS says on these two great commandments of love hang all the law and the prophets.
There you go trying to make the ten commandments the law. Jesus said he kept the law, meaning of the 613 laws that would pertain to Him. He asks us to keep His law of loving others as He loves us. There is absolutely no law other than Jesus law that tell us we should lay down our lives for our fellow man. That is God's law to all mankind. The laws you are trying to promote were for only one nation, Israel. The law you don't mention but are trying to promote, the Sabbath command has nothing to do with loving God and our fellow man. It was a law that demanded Israelites to rest on a certain day.

Love is expressed through obedience to God's law.
God's law to Israel was 613 commands. God's law to Gentiles was, according to Jewish scholars, I believe, seven laws and none of the had anything to do with observing a day. All you are doing is to try to make us believe God's law somehow morphed into ten commands.

Without love all we can do is sin. Abide in me and I in you without me you can no nothing. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. God is love and this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God. Do you know these scriptures Bob? No one loves God or their fellow man by breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments.
How shallow, especially when we know that we are not under the ten commandments. Eph 2:15
 
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Cribstyl

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Depends if one believes in scripture context as a rule for scripture interpretation as I do and have been trying to share with you or you believe in cherry picking scripture taken out of context to support what one believes I guess. I believe context has been provided now so all are free to believe as they wish as we all answer only to God come judgement day. I only wish all well and only point all to God and his Word because it is only here we find love and truth.
I can't find what you're accusing me of. Repost it.


 
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LoveGodsWord

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What you believe doesn't jive with what is the real truth.
Sure it does Bob. I have only posted Gods' Word. God's Word is not my words but God's Word and is Spirit and is truth *JOHN 6:63. It seems you do not believe them though. They are Gods' Word not mine so I will leave that between you and God to work through and we will have to agree to disagree.
You thought wrong too because I indeed did answer your last two posts The fact is you cannot refute what I wrote, so you conveniently skip over or ignore the real truth in favor of what you have been taught by Ellen White. I will supply you what I wrote about 2Cor 3
Nonsense Bob. Everything you have written in relation to your claims that God's 10 commandments has been abolished and are not a moral obligation to christians, has been shown to be in error and is not biblical or does it agree with the rest of the bible. Scripture alone has been provided to you, to prove that your claims are not true and have shown context you and your friends are disregarding posts # 469 linked; post # 498 linked; post # 499 linked and post # 500 linked.
The fact is LGW Paul in his letter to the Corinthians told them them the same thing as He told the Galatians. if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Bob, as posted earlier to you no one has God's Spirit by not believing and following what God's Word says *ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 5:29-32. Of course no one is "UNDER THE LAW" if they have God's Spirit as they have been forgiven for their sins by faith in God's Word and walk in God's Word through faith *1 JOHN 5:4; 1 JOHN 1:9. According to the scriptures in ROMANS 3:19 we are only "UNDER THE LAW" if we stand guilty before God of breaking the law.
2Cor 3: tells us that the ten commandments, as the guide for Israel, have been replaced by the Holy Spirit. The following taken from your post in capitol letters reveals that the ten commandments have been replaced by the Holy spirit; 8, How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9, For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more does the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
Nonsense Bob. According to the scriptures Gods' ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word (scripture support here). God's Word is to ISRAEL which is simply a name given by God to all those who believe and follow God's Word. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL then you have no part in Gods new covenant promise of a new heart to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12 from JEREMIAH 31:31-34. The letter being replaced by the Spirit is not doing away with the letter as the letter leads to the Spirit. You cannot have one without that other what brings the Spirit is the letter as we believe what God's Word says. It is the Spirit of truth and there is no Spirit if there is no word that bring truth as it is written faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *JOHN 6:63; JOHN 17:17; ROMANS 10:17. How can you have faith when there is no word (letter) to believe?
In your post you wrote; "Note: no where here does [v6] teach that God’s law is abolished. It simply states that “the letter killeth” that is the letter of the law gives us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20;" You are correct.
Indeed. It is God's Word not mine.
Pray tell us why you even mentioned that fact? I asked you a question and you just ignored it It was not supposed to reveal that fact. The abolish fact came later in verse ten and eleven which you also put in capitol letters, but because of your preconceived beliefs wouldn't consider; 10, For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excels. 11, For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remains is glorious."Done away" absolutely tells us the ten commandments were indeed abolished. You ignored this fact.
Nonsense Bob, I did not ignore anything. This is why I asked you from the beginning if you would tell us what you think the old and new covenants are and precisely what you believe is abolished. You ignored this question to you. Where I believe your have difficulties is in understanding what the old covenant is. 2 CORINTHIANS 3 is in regards to the two old and the new covenants not the 10 commandments which are God's moral standard for christian living and repeated all through the new covenant scriptures. Your confusing God's eternal law written on stone with the finger of God with the Mosiac book of the law for remission of sins written by Moses that were shadows of things to come *HEBREWS 10:1-12. According to God's Word not mine the purpose of God's law (10 commandments) in both the old and the new covenants are to give us the knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and PSALMS 119:172 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. Your disagreeing with JESUS, MATTHEW, MARK LUKE JOHN, PAUL, JAMES, PETER, JOHN, well pretty much all the old and new testament scriptures dear friend that disagree with you. (1. Scripture proof here linked. 2. More scripture proof here and 3. more here linked). There is too much scripture here that disagrees with you dear friend. Does this not concern you? It should.
You use the fact that Jesus magnified the law as, I suppose, you are trying to tell me that since He did that it somehow is more our guide now than it was for those it was given. The fact is Jesus magnified laws from the ten commandments and the laws He had Moses write in the book.(603) Why is it you don't abide by the laws of the 603 that would pertain to someone like you that Moses wrote in the book? Jesus did. Why did you completely ignore the question?
No Bob, this only shows you did not understand what was written to you here. JESUS magnified the law from the inside out to show us that we need to be saved from the inside out and that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour. Your confused here Bob, how many commandments are there in God's 10 commandments? Is it 9; 10 or 613? (scripture please). Here is mine *EXODUS 34:28; DEUTERONOMY 4:13; DEUTERONOMY 10:4. God's eternal law (10 commandments) that was written with the finger of God on tables of stone according to the new covenant scriptures give us the knowledge of right and wrong, good and evil, sin and righteousness *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin. According to the scriptures, those who knowingly continue in known unrepentant sin do not enter into the kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing dispite to the Spirit of God's Grace *HEBREWS 10:26-31; ROMANS 6:23.
You tell me, in your post, it is the ten commandments that is written on our hearts.
Nonsense. I have never said any such things. I said God gives us a new heart to love and it is love the establsihes God's law by faith and quoted *MATTHEW 22:36-40; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:4 as scripture evidence.
Who gave you the authority to teach that?
God did as shown above in *MATTHEW 22:36-40; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:4; HEBREWS 10:26-31; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:4-10; REVELATION 14:12 too many scriptrures to post (further scripture proof here linked and more scripture proof here and more here linked)
Another question you ignored Where do you find that in all of scripture? Another ignored question
Nonsense Bob, the scriptures have been quoted all through the content of the posts you have not been responding to (see previous sections above this and all the posts to you in posts # 469 linked; post # 498 linked; post # 499 linked and post # 500 linked.)
Certainly "My laws" do not indicate that they are the now defunct ten commandments.
Certainly dear friend, as God's 10 commandments are not defunct as shown in the new covenant scriptures (scripture proof here linked and more scripture proof here and more here linked).
Jesus magnified laws from the laws He dictated to Moses, are they included? Boy, you will not respond to anything will you God gave Abraham a law that he and his offspring were to be circumcised, so is that written in our hearts.
Yep. Circumcision was a shadow law from the Mosaic book of the law that is a sign of a new heart to love God and keep his commandments...

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:[29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and CORCUNCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART IN THE SPIRIT, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

1 CORINTHIANS 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

Circumcision is simply a sign of the new covenant promise given in JEREMIAH 31:31-34 repeated by PAUL in HEBREWS 8:10-12.
How about God's law given to Noah which allowed him to eat the flesh of every thing? one more question unanswered Is the law from the dictated laws of what flesh the Israelites could not eat written in our hearts? Another Is the Sabbath law written in our hearts LGW? Why, if it is, wasn't it revealed to your prophet through the Holy Spirit?
There is no questions unanswered Bob as shown above already. It is you who do not answer questions. If we love God we will keep his commandments as it is written in MATTHEW 22:36-40; JOHN 14:15. Do you love God Bob? No one loves God by breaking his commandments and not believing and following God's Word. *1 JOHN 2:3-4.

Sorry Bob it seems God's Word disagrees with you.

to be continued....
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Now that one baffles me completely. You tell us it is the ten commandments that is written on our hearts and yet even the so called more than a prophet never felt any urge to honor the command. You could have made some points if you could have or would have answered that It was Joseph Bates that told her about some people he ran across who were keeping Sabbath. She then ran with the news and when the churches didn't buy into her new found "truth" she named them Babylon and accepted the theory that the Pope is the anti christ.
Well that one baffles me to as I have said no such thing to you. I said God gives us a new heart to love and it is love that establsihes God's law by faith and quoted *MATTHEW 22:36-40; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:4 as scripture evidence that is in fulfillment of God's new covenant promise from JEREMIAH 31:31-34 and HEBREWS 8:10-12.
Jesus said He came to fulfill the law and the prophets. Fulfill means to bring to an end. Everything Paul wrote indicates that indeed Jesus did just that. Eph 2:15
Nonsense dear friend. JESUS did not come to fulfill (πληρόω G4137 means to do or fulfill or complete[d]) the law so that we are now free to break the law.
The Greek word used here
BDAG GREEK LEXICON
fulfill οὐκ ἦλθον καταλῦσαι ἀλλὰ πληρῶσαι Mt 5:17; depending on how one prefers to interpret the context, πληρόω is understood here either as fulfill=do, carry out, or as bring to full expression=show it forth in its true meaningg., or as fill up=complete

Fulfill means to do. The same as it is written in ROMANS 13:8-10

ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW.

Note: the Greek word used here for FULFILLED is the same used in reference to the believer as used in reference to JESUS in MATTHEW 5:17 G4137 πληρόω; plēroō means to execute and to satisfy; to accomplish; to perfect; to complete; to perfect or to supply or give. The context is the law nomos; application and context is the 10 commandments.

Not the application here to the believer is the 10 commandments...

[9], For this (loving another v8), YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT KILL, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, YOU SHALL NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

The scriptures are not teaching what you are here Bob.
You agreed with my statement which makes the statement you made about the ten being what points out sin inherently wrong or issues with morality toward God and our fellow man very incomplete.
Actually Bob, I disagreed with you and said showing why your claims are not biblical by saying it is true that sin is not loving God and your fellow man. According to the scriptures no one loves God or their neighbore by breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments.

We do not love God by...

1. Having other God's *EXODUS 20:3
2. Making idols and bowing down to them and worshipping them *EXODUS 20:4-5
3. Using God's name in vain *EXODUS 20:7
4. Forgetting God's "seventh day" Sabbath and not keeping it Holy and working on it *EXODUS 20:8-11

Just the same as we do not love our neighbour by...

5. Not honouring our parents *EXODUS 20:12
6. Killing our neighbour*EXODUS 20:13
7. Committing adultery with their spouses *EXODUS 20:14
8. Stealing from them *EXODUS 20:15
9. Lying to them *EXODUS 20:16
10. Coveting what they have been given from God *EXODUS 20:17

This is why JESUS says "ON THESE TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS OF LOVE TO GOD AND MAN" HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets. *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

You cannot separate love from obedience to God's law as it is only through a new heart to love *JOHN 3:3-7; JOHN 5:42; HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:6-9 that God's law is expressed *ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12 and established *ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4 in the lives of those who believe Gods' Word and walk in God's Spirit *GALATAINS 5:16 and been born again through faith to love *1 JOHN 3:6-9; 1 JOHN 4:7; 1 JOHN 5:4; 1 JOHN 5:18.
Plus since God gave the ten only to Israel they do not even pertain to us.
According to the scriptures God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow Gods Word (scripture support here). If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in God's new covenant promise of a new heart to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles believers are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27.
What scripture. You reference more scripture that anyone I have ever debated with and yet at certain times you are vague or don't reference anything.
All scripture Bob. God's Word is scripture and we are to live by every word of it *MATTHEW 4:4; 2 TIMOTHY 3:16. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. *ROMANS 3:4; ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 5:29-32.
Yes, Jesus made that point and you narrow mindlessly omit 603 laws of the old covenant and all the previous laws God has given to man and focus on just those incomplete ten commands. It seems like you think those nine commands are all the ways man can and does harm God and his fellow man. That is so completely wrong.
Nonsense Bob, unless your trying to teach that we are to continue making animal sacrifices for sin offerings. The shadows laws from the Mosaic book of the old covenant EXODUS 24:7 are fulfill in the new (read HEBREWS 10:1-27). This is why I asked you about your understanding of the old covenant. It seems to do not understand what is a shadow and what is eternal.
LoveGodsWord said: You cannot separate love from obedience to God's law as it is only through a new heart to love *JOHN 3:3-7; JOHN 5:42; HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:6-9 that God's law is expressed *ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12 and established *ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4 in the lives of those who believe Gods' Word and walk in God's Spirit *GALATAINS 5:16.
Your response here...
Why would you post Jn 5:42???? 42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. Are you using scripture to tell me what you really think of me?
Try reading what you are quoting from again dear friend. It is about all of us. We do not have the love of God in us and that is why we need a new heart to love God and keep his commandments. This is the new covenant promise.
If you are a true SDA then you know that the church teaches that in order to be saved you must "keep" the Sabbath command.
Nonsense. Your making things up now Bob that no one believes. Let's be clear here so there is no confusion your side. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.
Plus the fact that you are told never to say you are saved. Your statement doesn't ring true with your belief system.
God's Word teaches that we are being saved and are saved (present tense) if we believe and follow Gods' Word. Salvation is conditional on believing and following God's Word always present tense. There is no such thing as once saved always saved according to the scriptures (scripture support here)
You pride yourselves on being God's commandment keeping people. SDAs may keep from killing someone, but as far as keeping the Sabbath given only to one nation, Israel, I have never met one that really keeps it as required by the rules set forth in the old covenant. Your prophet tells you that you have to become perfect because in the end you will be standing alone without Jesus the mediator. That is pretty close to saying you have to keep the laws of the Sinai covenant in order to be saved which refutes your statement. I certainly would not want to involve myself in a system that teaches such things. A system that is telling the world that they cannot be saved unless they become Sabbath keepers is not Biblical.
Not really Bob. This is simply more repitition already addressed elsewhere Bob. According to the scriptures God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow Gods Word (scripture support here). According to the scriptures we are already saved by God's Grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. We keep God's laws because he has given us a new heart to love God and walk in His Spirit. *HEBREWS 8:10-12; GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 8:4; ROMANS 3:31; 1 JOHN 3:6-9; REVELATIONS 14:12; REVELATIONS 22:14.

Sorry Bob, it seems Gods Words disagrees with you.

Hope this is helpful.
 
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Bob S

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In post# 399 LGW wrote; (Note: I used the bold and blue on the part that, in fact, LGW did write that it is the ten commandments that is written in our hearts. In his last post he
denied writing exactly what he now denies.)

LGW' post #499

Note: in [v3] that Paul is stating that the Corinthians here are letters of Christ ministered by Paul and his companions “written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone (reference to the 10 commandments) but IN the fleshly tables of the HEART! Pauls reference here is to Gods new covenant promise of JEREMIASH 31:31-34 repeated by Paul in HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT that i will make with the house of israel after those days, said the lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a god, and they shall be to me a people.

LGW's post #505
Well that one baffles me to as I have said no such thing to you. I said God gives us a new heart to love and it is love that establsihes God's law by faith and quoted *MATTHEW 22:36-40; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:4 as scripture evidence that is in fulfillment of God's new covenant promise from JEREMIAH 31:31-34 and HEBREWS 8:10-12.

Bob wrote:
You tell me, in your post, it is the ten commandments that is written on our hearts.
LGW answered:
Nonsense. I have never said any such things. I said God gives us a new heart to love and it is love the establsihes God's law by faith and quoted *MATTHEW 22:36-40; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:4 as scripture evidence.

Bob wrote:
In your post you wrote; "Note: no where here does [v6] teach that God’s law is abolished. It simply states that “the letter killeth” that is the letter of the law gives us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20;" You are correct. Pray tell us why you even mentioned that fact? I asked you a question and you just ignored it It was not supposed to reveal that fact. The abolish fact came later in verse ten and eleven which you also put in capitol letters, but because of your preconceived beliefs wouldn't consider; [10], FOR EVEN THAT WHICH WAS MADE GLORIOUS HAD NO GLORY IN THIS RESPECT, BY REASON OF THE GLORY THAT EXCELS.
[11], FOR IF THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, MUCH MORE THAT WHICH REMAINS IS GLORIOUS. "Done away" absolutely tells us the ten commandments were indeed abolished. You ignored this fact.

LGW truncated what I wrote to this: (note: he purposely omitted the facts I presented)
In your post you wrote; "Note: no where here does [v6] teach that God’s law is abolished. It simply states that “the letter killeth” that is the letter of the law gives us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20;" You are correct.
LGW's answer:
Indeed. It is God's Word not mine.

If that is not the poorest way of debating an issue I would like to know one worse. How can anyone give any credence to what LGW writes?

He uses words like "nonsense", "not really" and pats himself for his "superior" posts by writing "Sorry Bob, it seems Gods Words disagrees with you." All this to make the opponent's statements seem trivial or worthless.

All I can say is that I have taken an honest approach by using scripture, in context, to prove what I have gleaned is the real truth. The Plan of Salvation is simple and we are following the Truth if we believe in the One God sent to earth and taught us to love one another as He loves us. I do not see in His Plan of Salvation anything that would indicate that Christians are under any law to keep the rituals given only to the now defunct nation of Israel. Furthermore, I believe the tree Christians are grafted into is Jesus not a nation that broke God's covenant in every way possible and is no longer.
 
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I do not see in His Plan of Salvation anything that would indicate that Christians are under any law

Rom 3: 31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Where that law includes the one where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment. Eph 6:1-2

No wonder then that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

No wonder then gentiles are specifically singled out for blessing who choose not to "Profane my Sabbath" in Is 56:6-8

No wonder Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
 
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