something on my mind

Gold fish

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In 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 it talks about what it looks like an out of body experience.I was just wondering.If God would help a non believer have an out of body experience.Just because he wanted them to.Would they believe it later?And believe it was from God?Also what if They were in front of God Like john the apostle?Would that help them believe?
 

A_Thinker

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In 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 it talks about what it looks like an out of body experience.I was just wondering.If God would help a non believer have an out of body experience.Just because he wanted them to.Would they believe it later?And believe it was from God?Also what if They were in front of God Like john the apostle?Would that help them believe?
Lots of people have claimed to.have experienced out of body experiences.

I don't know if it helps them believe in God or not ...
 
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In 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 it talks about what it looks like an out of body experience.I was just wondering.If God would help a non believer have an out of body experience.Just because he wanted them to.Would they believe it later?And believe it was from God?Also what if They were in front of God Like john the apostle?Would that help them believe?

I would think the only way a person can believe in Jesus...God...is if God allows you to believe in Him.
 
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Francis Drake

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I would think the only way a person can believe in Jesus...God...is if God allows you to believe in Him.
That contradicts what Paul says in Romans, God does not allow us, he demands we make that choice!
Rom1v18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
For men to suppress the truth, they must already possess that truth!

19because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
This tells it plainly, God has shown them all they need.

20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
The invisible God is clearly seen and known and understood by all men because God speaks Spirit to spirit deep in every heart.
Therefore the responsibility to respond is entirely down to man, not God!
 
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John Helpher

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In 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 it talks about what it looks like an out of body experience.I was just wondering.If God would help a non believer have an out of body experience.Just because he wanted them to.

What God wants is for people to recognize his goodness; that he's the boss, he knows better, and we should listen to and obey him. If someone wants some kind of religious experience, but they're not prepared to obey his teachings, then whatever experience they have will be useless. We can see that in many charismatic churches today where people claim to have tremendous, earth-shattering, miraculous experiences, and yet in their day-to-day, practical lives they don't even try to obey Jesus.

Also what if They were in front of God Like john the apostle?Would that help them believe?

The people in Jesus' day saw many miracles. Some of them believed as a result, but many of them did not. At one point, after miraculously feeding thousands of people, those same people chased after Jesus the next day; they wanted to make him a king. Amazing, right? As King, Jesus could have instituted moral laws and decrees etc. But, Jesus knew better. He rebuked them because they were only following him to get more miracles and sure enough, their response was, "If you really are who you say you are, show us another miracle". They wanted him to be king, not because they believed he had the truth, but because they wanted to exploit his miraculous powers for their own selfish interests.

At one point Jesus practically pleaded with the religious leaders that if they were not willing to believe him for the sake of the truth of his words, to at least believe him because of the miracles, but the record shows that whether it's words of truth or practical-reality miracles, some people will not believe simply because they do not want to submit themselves to God's authority.

The Revelation makes this message pretty clear, too. It describes two sets of miracle workers; one set is the Beast and False Prophet, both of whom are described as having the power to call fire down from Heaven, which they use to shock and amaze the world (though Paul refers to this as lying signs and wonders).

The second set is the two witnesses, who are described as having the power, (among others),to burn their enemies with fire from their mouths. The surrounding context indicates that this is a literal fire and not metaphorical (i.e. powerful speech).

Two sets of two, both performing miracles; anyone who's faith requires the performance of miracles will almost certainly be deceived by the wrong set of two (who use their power to amaze, as opposed to God's messengers who use their power to rebuke).

Miracles, no matter how amazing, simply will not guarantee faithfulness, loyalty, or integrity. Jesus makes this point clear to the disciples when, after he was resurrected, he shows himself to some of them. However, one disciple who did not see Jesus during these prior visits was Thomas. He doubted. He said, "Unless I see the man himself, his wounds, and touch those wounds with my own two hands, I will not believe"! Then, a few days later he did see Jesus and

Jesus asked him to touch his wounds and as a result Thomas expressed his belief. Jesus was glad for this, but he included an important caveat; he said, "You believe because you have seen, but rather blessed are those who believe even without seeing".

In other words, those people who need some kind of miracle to believe in Jesus actually have less faith than those who are willing to believe simply because they're responding to God's spirit of truth. \

In 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 it talks about what it looks like an out of body experience.

I believe Paul is referring to John's witness to the Revelation; Paul saw what John saw. Notice that he starts out by referring to visions and revelation of the Lord. In other places Paul also refers to the abundance of revelations he's had, the "mysteries" of God, and references which are consistent with lessons from the Revelation (i.e. he says that death will be the last enemy defeated; in Revelation 6:2-8 we read about 4 hoursemen, the first being Jesus riding out to conquer and the forth (last) being death).

However, despite these allusions to his exposure to miraculous revelation from God, and even despite his initial miraculous vision from Jesus (which triggered his conversion) I believe that Jesus only offered such miracles because he knew that Paul was sincere enough not to need them. To be sure they helped and encouraged him, but we also see that Paul went through some pretty serious suffering, too. When one of the believes expressed incredulity at a persecutor like Saul suddenly converting and requiring trust, Jesus responded with, "I will show him how greatly he must suffer".

It's easy to look at Paul's example today and build a statue to his greatness; it's easy to admire him and wish that we could have the same kind of access to spirituality; to witness miracles, to heal, to cast out demons, but very few of us would be willing to suffer the way he did.
 
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AWorkInProgress

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In 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 it talks about what it looks like an out of body experience.I was just wondering.If God would help a non believer have an out of body experience.Just because he wanted them to.Would they believe it later?And believe it was from God?Also what if They were in front of God Like john the apostle?Would that help them believe?

"Soli Deo gloria"
God alone be the glory

Everything that God does is in accordance with his will and for his glory. I won't get all wrapped up about the "outer body experience" part, but the Lord speaks to believers and non-believers any way he wishes. Typically through visions much like Isaiah 6, or the scripture you have here.

My mother in law grew up in a pretty Godless/Catholic area of Pheonix, and my wife and I are amazed she survived as sane as she is from all the murder and rape that happened there. She had a vision that didn't make sense till later in her life.

'She was collecting veggies in the fields and seriously hurt her back. She had to stay home to recover. She told us she got a vision of an ultra-large book that fell from the sky and landed in the neighborhood. When she saw it people had it open and standing on the book pages. She was asking people what were they doing. They said checking to see if their names were in the book. She asked why and they answered to see if they would go into Heaven. She got scared and asked if she could check to see if her name was in it. They agreed and helped her move the giant pages over to where her name might be. She looked hard and she couldn't find her name at all. She was afraid.'

She didn't know a thing about the Lamb's book of Life till she became saved years later. My Mother in law is a heart for ministering to/praying for broken women, as well as the gift of hospitality. All to the glory of God!
 
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