Jesus is the Archangel Michael??

YeshuaFan said:

Both claimed infallibility for the teachings of their founders!

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And of course, you are very proud of your slave approving founders who also owned slaves.

mmksparbud said:

And of course, you are very proud of your slave approving founders who also owned slaves.

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We are talking about claiming to be prophet of God, as both Joseph Smith and Ellen White failed the test of a true One!

YeshuaFan said:

We are talking about claiming to be prophet of God, as both Joseph Smith and Ellen White failed the test of a true One!

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Sorry---but you have not proven where EGW failed her tests. She passed all of them.

YeshuaFan said:

We are talking about claiming to be prophet of God, as both Joseph Smith and Ellen White failed the test of a true One!

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And---FYI---this thread is not about EGW, JW;'s, nor Joseph Smith---It is about Michael. All, we have done is quote the bible. It is always you people who bring in EGW and everyone else.

mmksparbud said:

Sorry---but you have not proven where EGW failed her tests. She passed all of them.

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She was not Jewish, did no prophesy nor miracles, and she went against the prior revelations from God!

mmksparbud said:

And---FYI---this thread is not about EGW, JW;'s, nor Joseph Smith---It is about Michael. All, we have done is quote the bible. It is always you people who bring in EGW and everyone else.

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We must do that, as sda has no understanding on what scriptures teach, other then what EW wrote and spoke about!

YeshuaFan said:

She was not Jewish, did no prophesy nor miracles, and she went against the prior revelations from God!

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Not Jewish???? And??? Neither was Abraham!! Again---where is your proof?? I see none, all I see is your opinion! She most certainly did prophecies and never went against any prior revelations from God! Please document your case, for you have nothing but your own opinion---that counts for nothing!

YeshuaFan said:

We must do that, as sda has no understanding on what scriptures teach, other then what EW wrote and spoke about!

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Well, all we did was quote scripture---again---you are the ones bringing her in----we only quote scripture!
Obviously we know more about it than you do!

YeshuaFan said:

She was not Jewish, did no prophesy nor miracles, and she went against the prior revelations from God!

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Look---I have been on here for years--I've had real debates about her---not this empty stuff you are presenting. I've had very good presentations where people had quotes, excerpts from her writings, actual documentation that they felt was proof she was not genuine. All have been refuted and proven to be false. You just talk and present no documentation--it is obvious that you do not know what you are talking about and are only repeating some things you have heard. Nothing you have read for yourself. At least her statement about Jesus had documentation, it is just that her whole statement was not read and when it is read, it is still ignored. So, as they say---put up or.....She absolutely believed in Jesus as the 3rd part of the deity. All her writings attest to that. Get some sources quoted, that can actually be debated---just post the entire quote, not just a sentence and then try to make something she did not mean out of it.

mmksparbud said:

Not Jewish???? And??? Neither was Abraham!! Again---where is your proof?? I see none, all I see is your opinion! She most certainly did prophecies and never went against any prior revelations from God! Please document your case, for you have nothing but your own opinion---that counts for nothing!

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The Sabbath as the seal of God bogus, that is the Holy Spirit,Investigative Judgement not in Bible, neither is OT diet laws under NC!

mmksparbud said:

Look---I have been on here for years--I've had real debates about her---not this empty stuff you are presenting. I've had very good presentations where people had quotes, excerpts from her writings, actual documentation that they felt was proof she was not genuine. All have been refuted and proven to be false. You just talk and present no documentation--it is obvious that you do not know what you are talking about and are only repeating some things you have heard. Nothing you have read for yourself. At least her statement about Jesus had documentation, it is just that her whole statement was not read and when it is read, it is still ignored. So, as they say---put up or.....She absolutely believed in Jesus as the 3rd part of the deity. All her writings attest to that. Get some sources quoted, that can actually be debated---just post the entire quote, not just a sentence and then try to make something she did not mean out of it.

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She denied the Pauline Justification of the Gospel, and that alone can make her a False prophet!

YeshuaFan said:

The Sabbath as the seal of God bogus, that is the Holy Spirit,Investigative Judgement not in Bible, neither is OT diet laws under NC!

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|Do you even know what a seal is, what it contains that makes it a seal? Do you know what the seal of the beast is---it stste4s there is one---it says everyone will have a mark, either sealed to the beast with his mark, or sealed to God with His mark. You should be able to state what those seals are since you claim to know.The dietary laws of the OT are very much still a part of God's health plan for us. It has been proven in every research conducted by non SDA that those who follow those rules live longer and healthier. Even the Jews today---those that keep those health principals are healthier than the Jews who do not. What God has deemed abominable, He has never cleansed. He never cleansed the unclean animals and Peter's dream had nothing to do with the eating of unclean animals. He clearly states what God's vision meant when he said that no man is to be called unclean, God's Holy Spirit is given to all men, not just Jews. If y0u do not wish to follow the health principals---then don't---just do not whine and snivel to God for Him to heal you of what you would not have gotten had you obeyed His word. The human body has not changed. Jew or Gentile, we still have that which is best for our health and God create3d us and knows what is best for us.

Jesus was the Sacrificial Lamb and now is our High Priest. Do you know what that entails? When Jesus returns He says His reward is with Him and He comes only for the saved.

Rev_22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


That means the decision as to who is lost and who is saved will have been made. Jesus is doing that right now. The record is kept. The wicked will be judged according to their works.

mmksparbud said:

No---that is what you have been taught---it is not what the bi8ble says. This is at His 2nd coming. After this is the 100 years, After the 100 years is the judgement of the wicked and their demise. This empty, void, burned up and useless earth is where Satan and his angels spend their 1000 years. The New Earth is right after the wicked are destroyed by the fire of God. Jesus returns at the end of the tribulation to take His resurrected and living saints home. This is the Day of the Lord, this is His 2nd coming. The living wicked are destroyed and the rest of the wicked do not live again until after the 1000 years. You will, of course, continue to believe as you have been told.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


God is very organized, very methodical about what He does. It is 6 days, then a day of rest, 6 years of tilling the soil and then the land has a sabbath rest of one year---it is 6,000 years---then a rest of the planet for a 1000 years. I know you prefer what you have been taught.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The city does not get set down until the earth is made new. Satan and his followers had tried to take over the city as it was descending. The fire came down from God. God and Jesus will be with the new earth, but not until it is remade.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

We will all see pretty soon what the sequence is. God has never removed anyone from tribulation but has always lead them through it. He lead them through the flood, in a boat, He did not take the Israelites out of Egypt before sending the 10 plagues, but kept them safe during the 7 last plagues. He will protect us during the last plagues of the tribulation and then He will come for us. As He did the Israelites.

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NOPE! I once again have to disagree with you. I bet you are surprised at that aren't you.

I hate to say things that hurt people because that just is not what I do.

However my dear, your theology is so far removed from Bible truth that it is hard for me to believe. I am not going to engage with you the things you just posted about 100 years and Satan ruling 1000years and so because it is so farfetched and wrong I would not know where to begin.

However, I will be glad to list for you what is just over the hilltop ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE ITSELF without SDA imput as
The Bible has, then, a very specific program or calendar of events for this present age.

1. Next Event: The Imminent Translation of the Church/RAPTURE.
This event is described not only in 1 Thessalonians 4 but more specifically in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52. At this time, the Judgment Seat of Christ will take place where ALL believers of ALL ages will be rewarded.

2. The Seventieth Week of Daniel which is the Tribulation Peroid of Seven Years.

Daniel 9:27 which predicts that there is yet ahead a period of seven years of human history on earth which will begin with a covenant between the Gentile world ruler and the Jewish people. Palestine is set apart as the national home for Israel, where Jews are protected and sheltered. This enables Israel to re-establish their ancient sacrifices. This will be cut short by the beginning of the great tribulation and the breaking of the covenant with the Jews, with the result that Israel becomes the object of persecution and wrath instead of being protected.

3. Judgment of Living Gentiles

In Matthew 25:31-46 the Gentiles are gathered and judged by God. These are not resurrected ones, but living Gentiles who have come through the time of tribulation and now are being judged by Christ in relation to their fitness for entrance into the millennial kingdom of righteousness and peace. The separation of the sheep from the goats takes place and the sheep are ushered into the kingdom. The goats, those unworthy, are cast into everlasting fire. The basis of this judgment is the treatment given “my brethren,” the Jews. In the tribulation, no one except a believer in Christ will befriend the Jews. Accordingly, kindness to the Jews becomes an evidence of salvation by faith.

4. Regathering and Judgment of Israel

A forth event described in Ezekiel 20:34-38 is the judgment of Israel. The regathering of Israel has already begun in our present generation. Over 1,800,000 Jews are now in Palestine. More than ten percent of all the Jews in the world have gone back to the land of Palestine. This process of regathering is going to be continued after Christ comes for His church and will proceed during the first three and one-half years of that seven-year period prophesied by Daniel. This regathering will be abruptly stopped at the beginning of the great tribulation.

5. Armageddon

Revelation 19 tells us the whole story.

6. The Millennial Reign of Christ

This will take place immediately after Armageddon. The sixth division of the divine calendar is the millennial reign of Christ itself. In Revelation 20:4-6, it is disclosed very specifically that this is going to be a period of one thousand years beginning at the return of Christ and ending with some very specific events. The Scriptures declare that during this time Satan will be bound. All demonic activity will cease in that time, and for the first time in all the history of the human race man will be without any satanic temptation. Any evil which arises must arise in that time from the heart of man alone. Christ will reign over this world and there will be righteousness, peace, and justice. There will be joy in the earth and prosperity in economic things.

7. The Final Judgment at the Great White Throne.

At the close of the millennium there will be a seventh great event in God’s calendar: the final rebellion and the judgment of the great white throne. Scripture indicates that Satan will be loosed from his binding and he will be permitted once again to deceive the nations. As he goes forth to deceive the nations, a great horde of the human population from those who are born on the earth during the millennium—who merely professed to follow Christ without ever having been really born again—will follow Satan and be deceived by him. The Scriptures state that fire will come from heaven and devour them. The millennial earth and the present heaven will be destroyed, and a new heaven and a new earth will be created. Before the new heaven and new earth are created, the judgment of the great white throne, described in Revelation 20:11-15, will take place. Christ will bring into judgment every unsaved soul, and everyone who does not have eternal life—whose name is not written in the Lamb’s book of life—will be cast into the lake of fire and they will be there forever and ever.

8. Creation of New Heavens and New Earth

The great climactic event, the creation of the new heavens and the new earth (Rev. 21:1), follows immediately the final judgment, beginning what Peter seems to refer to as the Day of God (2 Pet. 3:12), the eternity which stretches on without end, concerning which we have no detailed program revealed in the Scripture.

The prophetic program of Scripture emphasizes the urgency to receive Christ and to trust Him for Salvation. We need the assurance that our part in that program will be that of one who has trusted in Christ, who is a member of the body of Christ, bound for glory.

BobRyan said:

Until you read what she wrote.



More than one or two people here will agree that Christ on Earth was not "blinding people by the brightness of His presence"... That is a given.

When He spoke to Moses on Sinai - He said that Moses could not see Him "and live" - but on Earth even Judas could "see Christ" .. so He was not walking around in the unveiled "mighty God" form as He was on Sinai... we call it the "incarnation".

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With Moses on the mountain, He was in His glory and majesty and no one could look upon him and live.

With Judas He was in a body of flesh and as such anyone could see Him and touch Him. He was the God-MAN, God in the flesh.

The two do not go together but are independent with context being the determining factor.

YeshuaFan said:

was Jesus able to sin by EW?

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From.....Ellen White: Teaches Jesus was a Sinner
Ellen White taught that both herself and Jesus Christ were sinners. I don’t personally have a problem believing that Ellen White was a sinner and I don’t believe that SDA struggle with this either. But to teach that Jesus was a sinner would mean that we would have no atonement, no sinless sacrifice as the propitiation of sins.

The truth is that we were warned this would happen a very long time ago by Paul.

1 Timothy 4:1-5......….
“Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, ; through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, ; who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. ; For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, ; for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.”

That passage fits Ellen White to a tee. She was a messenger of a very deceitful spirit, be it her own imagination or that of a demon. She taught abstinence from food that God had made clean and created to be received. She is a false prophet and you need not fear her. There are enough laws in the Bible we don’t need more, to do so is blasphemy as one has to put themselves in the place of God to make laws of God.

Ellen G White FALSE PROPHET Great Controversy SDAEllen G White FALSE PROPHET Great Controversy SDA

mmksparbud said:

Not Jewish???? And??? Neither was Abraham!! Again---where is your proof?? I see none, all I see is your opinion! She most certainly did prophecies and never went against any prior revelations from God! Please document your case, for you have nothing but your own opinion---that counts for nothing!

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Actually Abraham was the Father of the Jews my dear.

Genesis 12:1...…..
"The LORD told Abram, “You are to leave your land, your relatives, and your father’s house and go to the land that I’m going to show you. 2 I’ll make a great nation of your descendants, I’ll bless you, and I’ll make your reputation great, so that you will be a blessing. 3 I’ll bless those who bless you, but I’ll curse the one who curses you, and through you all the people of the earth will be blessed.”

From----(Ellen G. White, Early Writings, 1963, pp. 32,33).

I saw that the holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers; and that the Sabbath is the great question to unite the hearts of God's dear, waiting saints.

The summary meaning of this Ellen G. White's vision is stated as follows:
In this revelation, Mrs. White was carried down to the close of time and saw the Sabbath as the great testing truth on which men decide whether to serve God or to serve an apostate power (Ellen G. White, Early Writings, pp. 21,22).

Ellen G White vs John Who Saw No Temple!

Several important points need to be mentioned about this key Ellen G. White's vision:
(1) She had this vision of the Holy City and stated that she saw a temple there.

(2) In contrast to this, the Apostle John saw the Holy City and stated that it had no temple:

Revelation 21:22...…...