Number one thing to understanding end times bible prophecy.....

keras said:

Yes, Lazarus died again and the dead man in Luke 7:15, plus the boy Elijah revived.
The Trib martyrs are 'brought back to life', no mention of immortality.

Maybe those resurrected martyrs will live for the entire 1000 years of the reign of Jesus, but it will not be until they stand before God on His GWT, Revelation 20:11-15, that they and everyone whose names are in the Book of Life; will receive immortality.
If you have been taught and believe, anything else, you have believed a lie.

You don't see the 100+ other scriptures describing the Day of the Lords fiery wrath? Here's an eye-opener for you:
Deuteronomy 32:41 When I set My hand to judgement, My sword will devour flesh.

Isaiah 28:21-22 The Lord will arise and storm with rage, destruction is decreed upon the earth.

Isaiah 66:16 He will judge with fire, many will be slain by Him.

Isaiah 34:5 For My sword is prepared, it descends in judgement on those doomed for death.

Isaiah 51:6 The sky will be dispersed like smoke and the people will die like flies.

Jeremiah 25:33 Those that the Lord kills on that Day will lie scattered from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be mourned or buried, they will be as dung on the ground.

Isaiah 63:1-6 The Lord comes from the nations, His garments splashed with blood, His Day of vengeance had come and He tramped on them and spilled out their blood.

Psalm 37:20 Evil people will die, they will be incinerated and go up in smoke.

Isaiah 13:12 Humans will become scarce, more rare that fine gold.

Ezekiel 30:4-5 Egypt will suffer anguish...her slain will fall along with all the Arab lands.

Zephaniah 1:3 & 11 I shall destroy humans and animals, I shall bring the godless to their knees. Dire distress will come to sinful peoples, their blood and guts will spill on the ground.

Jeremiah 9:22 Corpses will lie like dung in the fields, with no one to gather them.

Ezekiel 21:3 My sword of judgement will kill both the righteous and wicked alike, from the Negev, Northward.

Jeremiah 11:16 Once you were My people, now with a great noise, you will be burned & consumed.

Isaiah 5:25 His anger is roused against His people and as He strikes them down the mountains shake. Their bodies lie like refuse in the streets.

Ezekiel 32:6 I shall drench the land with blood, the villages will be filled with it.

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You are WRONG.
You say these will suffer a second deathl. The word of God says they won't. That means they can't die. They are immortal. They will never die. You need to pay more attention to God.

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

keras said:

What unscriptural nonsense!
No one receives immortality until after the Book of Life is opened at the Great White Throne Judgment, Revelation 20:11-15

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Now that you have opened mouth and insert foot to its fullest.,I will correct you.
These who are resurrected in the first resurrection are immortal. They do not suffer a second death. They cant die.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

keras said:

Yes, Lazarus died again and the dead man in Luke 7:15, plus the boy Elijah revived.
The Trib martyrs are 'brought back to life', no mention of immortality.

Maybe those resurrected martyrs will live for the entire 1000 years of the reign of Jesus, but it will not be until they stand before God on His GWT, Revelation 20:11-15, that they and everyone whose names are in the Book of Life; will receive immortality.
If you have been taught and believe, anything else, you have believed a lie.

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If you have been taught that these are not immortal. Then you have been taught a lie Keras.
And you have lied to me. Stop lying to me Keras.

These do not suffer a second death. They live forever.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Douggg said:

I am talking about the text of Revelation 6:12-16. I don't see any mass number of persons killed in that text. In that text is the appearance of the sign of the Son of Man in heaven.

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Did you notice the great earthquake, and every mountain and island being moved out of their places? Do large earthquakes kill people?

Does this happen in heaven, or on the earth?

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Are you going to add these earthly events to your chart?

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Douggg said:

Jesus is thus in heaven at the time of the sixth seal event.

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We seem to be making progress.

You have admitted the great earthquake in Revelation 6 can kill people on the earth.

Does the text say Jesus is in heaven, or are you trying to make the Book of Revelation in a certain chronological order?

The people in this passage are hiding from the Lamb.

The text says this is the day of the Lord's wrath.


Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


This passage is one of many which proves the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

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Douggg said:

What you need to learn is the difference between what the text "says" and what the text "indicates". What the text "says" is the direct quote of the text. The copy and paste.

What the text "indicates" is our interpretation, understanding, and application of the text.

No, the text "says".... the copy and paste.

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

In the fifth seal...

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

In the sixth event, the vengeance of the Lord, called the wrath of the Lamb, is come. But is not executed until Jesus returns 45 days later, when he returns to earth in Revelation 19:17-21.

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If you try to ignore the "great earthquake" in Revelation chapter 6, and Christ coming "as a thief" at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16, and the greatest earthquake in history in Revelation 16, then maybe you can make your viewpoint work.

These passages are also visions of the Second Coming of Christ, which is found in Revelation 19.

Can you show the words "45 days later" in the Book of Revelation?

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Douggg said:

We have been through this before. But for the sake of new readers. The greatest of all time earthquake in the 7th vial of God's wrath is on my chart in the proper place.


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No, because it is not found in Revelation, nor is the "Sign of the Son of Man" wording. Both come from other text. Daniel 12:11-12. And Matthew 24:29-30.

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Your claim that Revelation 6 is only about a "sign" in the heavens falls apart with the "great earthquake" in Revelation 6.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Notice the characters in chapter 6, and chapter 19.

Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

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shilohsfoal said:

You are WRONG.
You say these will suffer a second deathl. The word of God says they won't. That means they can't die. They are immortal. They will never die. You need to pay more attention to God.

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

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Phew! I sure rattled your cage!
You post the scripture, it does NOT say the martyrs who are brought back to life, are made immortal.
You want that to happen because of your other false belief; of the Church being taken to heaven. People must become immortal before living in heaven.

NOBODY is made immortal until the Book of Life is opened. Revelation 20:11-15

keras said:

Phew! I sure rattled your cage!
You post the scripture, it does NOT say the martyrs who are brought back to life, are made immortal.
You want that to happen because of your other false belief; of the Church being taken to heaven. People must become immortal before living in heaven.

NOBODY is made immortal until the Book of Life is opened. Revelation 20:11-15

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Immortal is having eternal life Keras. Look it up.
Those who are resurrected in the first resurrection have eternal life. They will not die a second death.

Do you comprehend?

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Douggg said:

The sequence of events in Matthew 24:29-30 do not fall apart nor change with the words "great earthquake" in Revelation 6:12. There are several places in the bible using the great earthquake terminology. But in Revelation 16, at the 7th vial of God's wrath, that earthquake will be the greatest earthquake of all times.

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Here is where you go wrong.
What is described in Rev 6:12 and 14, is not so much of an earthquake, as tectonic plate shift.
As you say, the greatest earthquake of all time, will happen at the Seventh Bowl. Revelation 16:17-18 But even that is localized, at Armageddon.

I can't understand why you are so determined to shift the Sixth Seal from its Revelation sequence.
It isn't logical to do that, or even scripturally sound, as Jesus Returns to reign as King over the world. Not too smart to destroy it then!

What is sensible and logical, is there is coming a world changer, just as 2 Peter 3:1-7 tell us. It will be the great and terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath and that will commence all the prophesied things to happen before Jesus Returns.

Douggg said:

Is not indicated to be "localized".

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

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'fled away and not found' are different from 'moved out of their place'.
So Revelation 16:12-21 is all about the destruction at Armageddon, with some side effects. NOT the Sixth Seal.

Douggg said:

The first seal event of the rider on a white horse, given a crown, is the start of the seven years; and the riders thereafter are the great tribulation getting progressively worse. And them in the fifth seal are the great tribulation martyrs. And the time of the wrath of the Lamb has come in the sixth seal is Jesus about to carry out vengeance for their deaths when he returns to earth in Revelation 19:17-21.

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The belief of the first five Seals not being open yet, is your mistake.
How can they start at the beginning of the final 7 years? That time is marked only by a treaty being signed.
Jesus opened those Seals when He Ascended to heaven. All the martyrs since Stephen have their souls kept under the Altar in heaven.

Jesus made it plain that His Day of fiery wrath is His next action on earth.

Douggg said:

If you made a chart of your theory, you would have the sixth seal event being before the great tribulation. Which conflicts with Matthew 24:29-30a, which is near the end of the great tribulation.

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There is no conflict with the Sixth Seal being the next event and the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, being the Great Trib, during the final 3 1/2 years. As referred to in Matthew 24:29
It is error to place the SS in the GT.
Placing the SS at the Return is a serious change around of Revelation.