LDS Did you keep your First Estate?
- Thread starter Rescued One
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"If you met up with a few of those that lost their first estate, you will see why they lost their first estate. They hated and still hate God on sight. They have not of measure of repentence in them, and would reject soundly any attemp from God to save them at this point. They would much rather rule in hell than be under the rule of God in heaven."
Where does Mormon scripture say that? Nowhere! Who are you quoting or are you just expressing your opinion? Which Mormon heaven does your god rule? Are you talking about temporary hell in the Mormon spirit world or Mormon outer darkness?
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Peter1000
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When you read the bible and Jesus meets these evil spirits, not one time do you hear any of them say, thou art the Christ and we know you, please save us from our stupid choice that we made in our first estate.
Here is an experience that Jesus had with devils that were in a man:
Matthew 8:28-31 King James Version (KJV)
28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
Notice, no attempt at repentence or forgiveness, but "what have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God. They knew Jesus, but did not bend to his will. They did ask if they could take the bodies of swine though. Which tells you that to them that kept not their first estates understood how important a body is.
See also Mark 1:23-25
Those who followed lucifer in the war in heaven (revelations 12) were expelled out of heaven and lost their first estate. Do you think satan is in a repentant mood? Well neither are his followers.
We are not talking about the temporary hell, I am talking about those that go to outer darkness.
God and Jesus rule in the Celestial kingdom.
Christ visits the Terestrial kingdom occasionally.
The Holy Spirit only visits the Telestial kingdom, occasionally.
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- Dec 12, 2002
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Next time try telling people what you're talking about instead of withholding Mormon teachings.
I already know those peculiar teachings, but thanks for informing the other readers.
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Peter1000, your god failed to save Jeffrey Dahmer, Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler, and millions of others. Yet they supposedly sided with Christ before being sent to earth.
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He is the way
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Jeffrey Dahmer, Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler, and millions of others made wrong choices while they were here on the earth.
(New Testament | Romans 6:16)
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
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- Dec 12, 2002
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Of course they did and so does every healthy person on this planet! In fact, many obey false teachers!
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He is the way
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True teachers teach people to keep the commandments:
(New Testament | Matthew 5:17 - 20)
17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
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The Holy Spirit teaches God's words to Christians.
Romans 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Romans 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
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He is the way
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This is the righteousness of God, that we keep His commandments of LOVE:
(New Testament | Romans 13:6 - 14)
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
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Ran77
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Interesting. This would seem to indicate that the God who represents your beliefs has saved all of the people that were mentioned. If Dahmer and Stalin are on the list, is there anyone who hasn't been saved? And if everyone is saved, what is the purpose of sharing the Good Word with unbelievers?
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Peter1000
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There are 3 estates. The 1st estate was our pre-earth life in heaven. We were taught the gospel and learned what we needed to do to enjoy our 2nd estate. Some of the spirit children rebelled against God, face to face, and will suffer eternal damnation for their seriously bad decision. (no 2nd estate, for they kept not their 1st estate, no 3rd estate, no progression, no bodies, forever in outer darkness.)
Those that sided with Christ were given the opportunity to progress to the 2nd estate. Here is the real testing grounds. God is not seen face to face. We have to have faith to move forward. If we choose Christ again and do good, it will be to our eternal happiness in our 3rd and final estate. If we reject Christ and do bad it will be to something much less, but only a few will end up with satan and his angels in outer darkness.
Finally, our 3rd estate. After the resurrection and we recieve our new and improved immortal bodies and are judged according to our works, we find ourselves in 1 of 3 levels of glory in heaven.
Jeffrey Dalmer, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin will all be judged according to their works and will find themselves in one of the 3 glories in heaven. Probably the lower level called the Terrestria kingdom. They will be visited by the Holy Spirit from time to time. No progression, no expansion, understanding the profound reality of the second death, for they will never see the Father or the Sons face, forever and ever.
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He is the way
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God said both things and they do not conflict with each other.
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