WHAT HAPPENS TO THE UNREPENTANT WICKED AFTER THE 2ND COMING?

HARK! · Jun 16, 2020

bbbbbbb said:
Let's stick with the truth then.

Let's do that.

bbbbbbb said:
One must be utterly sinless and perfect to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Can you show me the proof of your assertion in scripture?

bbbbbbb · Jun 16, 2020

HARK! said:
Let's do that.

Can you show me the proof of your assertion in scripture?

Matthew 5:48 Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

HARK! · Jun 16, 2020

bbbbbbb said:
Matthew 5:48 Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

This verse mentions nothing about the qualifications for entering the Kingdom of Heaven.

I thought that we were going to stick with the truth. Remember?

Can you show me scripture which proves your unfounded assertion as truth?

axelthefox · Jun 16, 2020

One thing i wonder is if God would change his laws on homosexuality that there been science stating that many are born that way from what i have read or such. Or would he keep true to his laws on homosexuality and not change on the laws. I think God probably has seen the scientists doing the work and having those findings. I wonder how he would view the findings.

Dkh587 · Jun 16, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
Yes, but David didn't have the benefit of the revelation of the Father in the Son. In Christ God is reconciling the whole world to Him, not counting men's sins against them (2 Cor 5:19-20).

Jesus teaches us that the things of God are spiritually discerned, a lesson not lost on Paul, that great apostle, when he says:

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. (1 Cor 2:14)

So the everlasting destruction of the wicked is not achieved by natural earthly means. Rather, it is achieved by our conversion, our renewal in the life of Christ through the baptism of holy fire and the Spirit.

For everyone will be salted with fire, and salt is good. (Mk 9-49)

Behold I am making all things new (Rev 21:5)

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. (1 Jn 4:7-8)

For Jesus is the Salvation of God the Father of mankind who comes to save the world and is the beginning and the end of all things.

The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all. (1 Cor 15:26-28)

David was a Prophet of God:

Acts 2:30

Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne

And God does nothing that he doesn’t reveal first to his Prophets

Amos 3:7

Surely the Master Yahweh will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

the Prophets taught long ago what would happen to the wicked: they would be destroyed forever - Messiah & the Apostles confirmed their teachings.

The Messiah did not teach in opposition to the Prophets that proceeded him, but rather he fully revealed what they taught - they did not teach the wicked attaining eternal life, but rather, they taught eternal death of the wicked.

in fact, everything Messiah and the Apostles taught must line up with what the Prophets taught, and not the other way around.

none of the Prophets taught anything other than eternal destruction for the wicked. It is a wonderfully simple reality - no hopscotching, shucklebucking, or sugar footing necessary to understand it.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 16, 2020

bbbbbbb said:
Matthew 5:48 Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Good scripture. This scriptures is an interesting one especially as applied to the rest of the chapter in MATTHEW 5's contexts.

JESUS came to magnify the LAW from the INSIDE OUT quoting MATTHEW 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *ISAIAH 42:21. This is to show that unless our RIGHTOUESNESS EXCEEDS the OUTWARD RIGHTOUESNESS of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. EVIL begins in the HEART. BREAKING GOD's 10 COMMANDMENTS from the heart defile a man *MATTHEW 15:18-19.

JESUS is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:27-28. JESUS magnified the LAW to the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the HEART (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the NEW COVENANT promise and need to be BORN AGAIN by Faith in God's WORD for salvation to be free from SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

If we are not BORN AGAIN into the NEW COVENANT promise and continue in it we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. ALL those who KNOWINGLY break any one of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who KNOWINGLY CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

RIGHTESOUSNESS comes from LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very expression of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. He that does not LOVE does not KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are BORN AGAIN have a NEW HEART TO LOVE and FOLLOW GOD *1 JOHN 4:7. This is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Those who are BORN AGAIN do not practice SIN (breaking God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4-9. This is why JOHN finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me KEEP my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN under the NEW COVENANT to LOVE we will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the INSIDE OUT.

Now back to MATTHEW 5:48 and the question can we be perfect as our father in Heaven is perfect? Absolutely, because God's forgiveness is perfect forgiveness and when he forgives us for our sins we stand before God perfect because of the death of God's dear son. Does that mean that we are no longer sinners in need of a Saviour? Absolutely NOT! All we can do without JESUS and God working in us is sin because we have a sinful nature that God needs to change *JOHN 15:5; PHILIPPIANS 2:13; JOHN 3:3-7.

The best way to explain our perfect walk in when the scriptures talk about the example of a new Christian being a babe in Christ needing to milk of the Word of God *HEBREWS 5:12-13; 1 PETER 2:2; 1 CORINTHIANS 3:2 while those who are mature eat the meat of the Word of God *ISAIAH 28:9-10.

When we are newborns we do not know much about God's Word but have repented from the sins we know about and through faith have accepted God free gift of Grace through JESUS. We need to grow in order to have a closer walk with JESUS and as we continue to learn more from Gods' Word God reveals things (sins) in our lives that need changing from the heart. So in times of ignorace God winks at but whey he gives us a knowledge of the truth ha calls us to believe and follow his Word *ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17.

The other terms used here is justification or forgivness through repentance, confession and faith and sanctification which is learning more and more every day to be like JESUS *MATTHEW 5:48 which is the work of a lifetime. At every stage of our walk with God we are perfect as we abide in Christ and covered by His blood.

God bless

HARK! · Jun 16, 2020

axelthefox said:
One thing i wonder is if God would change his laws on homosexuality that there been science stating that many are born that way from what i have read or such. Or would he keep true to his laws on homosexuality and not change on the laws. I think God probably has seen the scientists doing the work and having those findings. I wonder how he would view the findings.

1 Timothy 6:20

King James Version

20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

TheBornGayHoax.pdf

bbbbbbb · Jun 16, 2020

HARK! said:
This verse mentions nothing about the qualifications for entering the Kingdom of Heaven.

I thought that we were going to stick with the truth. Remember?

Can you show me scripture which proves your unfounded assertion as truth?

I have never asserted that absolute perfection is a condition for salvation. If you remember, I gave two conditions on which all Christians agree. You seemed surprised that I only listed two and I asked you what other conditions you would add, saying that many Christians add one or two other conditions and some add a virtually endless list of conditions.

Absolute perfection is a condition that some Christians add to the two. I do not include it and merely provided the verse which others use to support their assertion. I recommend that you find someone who holds this view and ask them to defend it for you.

Back to my previous question which remains unanswered. What other conditions do you maintain are requisite for personal human salvation?

bbbbbbb · Jun 16, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Good scripture. This scriptures is an interesting one especially as applied to the rest of the chapter in MATTHEW 5's contexts.

JESUS came to magnify the LAW from the INSIDE OUT quoting MATTHEW 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *ISAIAH 42:21. This is to show that unless our RIGHTOUESNESS EXCEEDS the RIGHTOUESNESS of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. EVIL begins in the HEART. BREAKING GOD's 10 COMMANDMENTS from the heart defile a man *MATTHEW 15:18-19.

JESUS is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:27-28. JESUS magnified the LAW to the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the HEART (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the NEW COVENANT promise and need to be BORN AGAIN by Faith in God's WORD for salvation to be free from SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

If we are not BORN AGAIN into the NEW COVENANT promise and continue in it we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. ALL those who KNOWINGLY break any one of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who KNOWINGLY CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

RIGHTESOUSNESS comes from LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very expression of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. He that does not LOVE does not KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are BORN AGAIN have a NEW HEART TO LOVE and FOLLOW GOD *1 JOHN 4:7. This is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Those who are BORN AGAIN do not practice SIN (breaking God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4-9. This is why JOHN finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me KEEP my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN under the NEW COVENANT to LOVE we will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the INSIDE OUT.

Now back to MATTHEW 5:48 and the question can we be perfect as our father in Heaven is perfect? Absolutely, because God's forgiveness is perfect forgiveness and when he forgives us for our sins we stand before God perfect because of the death of God's dear son. Does that mean that we are no longer sinners in need of a Saviour? Absolutely NOT! All we can do without JESUS and God working in us is sin because we have a sinful nature that God needs to change *JOHN 15:5; PHILIPPIANS 2:13; JOHN 3:3-7.

The best way to explain our perfect walk in when the scriptures talk about the example of a new Christian being a babe in Christ needing to milk of the Word of God *HEBREWS 5:12-13; 1 PETER 2:2; 1 CORINTHIANS 3:2 while those who are mature eat the meat of the Word of God *ISAIAH 28:9-10.

When we are newborns we do not know much about God's Word but have repented from the sins we know about and through faith have accepted God free gift of Grace through JESUS. We need to grow in order to have a closer walk with JESUS and as we continue to learn more from Gods' Word God reveals things (sins) in our lives that need changing from the heart. So in times of ignorace God winks at but whey he gives us a knowledge of the truth ha calls us to believe and follow his Word *ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17.

The other terms used here is justification or forgivness through repentance, confession and faith and sanctification which is learning more and more every day to be like JESUS *MATTHEW 5:48 which is the work of a lifetime. At every stage of our walk with God we are perfect as we abide in Christ and covered by His blood.

God bless

Thank you for your excellent post.

God bless you.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 16, 2020

axelthefox said:
One thing i wonder is if God would change his laws on homosexuality that there been science stating that many are born that way from what i have read or such. Or would he keep true to his laws on homosexuality and not change on the laws. I think God probably has seen the scientists doing the work and having those findings. I wonder how he would view the findings.

Hey Axcel, nice to meet you here and welcome

.

God does not change his mind on these things. God is above science so called and knows all and he says homosexuality is an unatural abomination and a sin that will keep one out of his Kingdom.

God bless.

HARK! · Jun 16, 2020

bbbbbbb said:
I have never asserted that absolute perfection is a condition for salvation.

Let's recap.

bbbbbbb said:
One must be utterly sinless and perfect to enter the kingdom of heaven.

HARK! said:
Can you show me the proof of your assertion in scripture?

bbbbbbb said:
Matthew 5:48 Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

bbbbbbb said:
I have never asserted that absolute perfection is a condition for salvation.

Mr. M · Jun 16, 2020

Isaiah 11:4. But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

HARK! · Jun 16, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

That sounds like his word.

Mr. M · Jun 16, 2020

HARK! said:
That sounds like his word.

Now who is guessing?

shavet peh=rod/sceptre mouth
As in:
Genesis 49:10. The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Breath of his lips:
breath-ruach=spirit. But you knew that.
The law, quickened by the spirit. The formula remains the same. The Gospel.

HARK! · Jun 16, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
The law, quickened by the spirit. The formula remains the same. The Gospel.

In the beginning was the word.

(CLV) Jn 14:6
Jesus is saying to him, "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one is coming to the Father except through Me.

==================================================
THE WAY
==================================================

(CLV) Ex 18:20
You will warn them with the statutes and the laws and make known to them the way in which they shall go and the deeds which they shall do.

(CLV) Dt 10:12
And now, Israel, what is Yahweh your Elohim asking of you, save to fear Yahweh your Elohim, to walk in all His ways, to love Him and to serve Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul,

(CLV) Jos 22:5
But observe meticulously to keep the instruction and the law that M woses the servant of Yahweh enjoined on you: to love Yahweh your Elohim and to walk in all His ways, to observe His instructions, to cling to Him and to serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul.

(CLV) 1Ki 2:3
You will keep the charge of Yahweh your Elohim to walk in His ways, to observe His statutes and His instructions, His ordinances and His testimonies as written in the law of Moses, so that you may act intelligently in all that you do and everywhere that you turn around,

(CLV) Ps 119:1
Happy are those whose way is flawless, Who are walking in the law of Yahweh.

(CLV) Pr 6:23
For instruction is a lamp, and law is a light, And the reproofs of admonition are the way to life,

(CLV) Isa 2:3
Many peoples will come and say: Come, and let us ascend to the Mount of Yahweh, To the house of the Elohim of Jacob; And He shall direct us out of His ways, So that we may indeed walk in His paths. For from Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of Yahweh from Jerusalem.

(CLV) Mal 2:8
Yet you withdraw from the way. You cause many to stumble at the law. You ruin the covenant of Levi, says Yahweh of hosts.

(CLV) Ac 24:14
"Yet I am avowing this to you, that, according to the way which they are terming a sect, thus am I offering divine service to the hereditary God, believing all that is written, according to the law and in the prophets,

==================================================
THE TRUTH
==================================================

(CLV) Ps 119:142
Your righteousness is eonian righteousness, And Your law is truth.

(CLV) Mal 2:6
The law of truth, it came to be in his mouth, and iniquity, it was not found on his lips. In peace and in uprightness he walked with Me, and turned many back from depravity.

(CLV) Jn 8:31
Jesus, then, said to the Jews who have believed Him, "If ever you should be remaining in My word, you are truly My disciples,

(CLV) Jn 8:32
and you will know the truth, and the truth will be making you free."

(CLV) Ro 2:20
a discipliner of the imprudent, a teacher of minors, having the form of knowledge and the truth in the law.

==================================================
THE LIFE
==================================================

(CLV) Jb 33:30
To restore his soul from the pit, To enlighten him with the light of the living.

(CLV) Ps 36:9
For with You is the fountain of life; In Your light shall we see light.

(CLV) Pr 6:23
For instruction is a lamp, and law is a light, And the reproofs of admonition are the way to life

===============================================
THE LIGHT
==================================================

(CLV) Jn 8:12
Again, then, Jesus speaks to them, saying, "I am the Light of the world. He who is following Me should under no circumstances be walking in darkness, but will be having the light of life."

(CLV) Jb 24:13
They are among those revolting against the light; They neither recognize its ways Nor dwell in its tracks.

(CLV) Ps 119:105
Your word is a lamp to my feet, And a light to my tracks.

(CLV) Pr 6:23
For instruction is a lamp, and law is a light, And the reproofs of admonition are the way to life,

(CLV) Isa 51:4
Attend to Me, My people, And, My folk, give ear to Me! For a law shall go forth from Me, And My judgment for a light of the peoples.

(CLV) 2Co 6:14
Do not become diversely yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness? Or what communion has light with darkness?

(CLV) 1Jn 1:7
Yet if we should be walking in the light as He is in the light, we are having fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, is cleansing us from every sin.

==================================================
THE WORD
===============================================

(CLV) Jn 1:14
And the Word became flesh and tabernacles among us, and we gaze at His glory, a glory as of an only-begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

(CLV) Isa 2:3
Many peoples will come and say: Come, and let us ascend to the Mount of Yahweh, To the house of the Elohim of Jacob; And He shall direct us out of His ways, So that we may indeed walk in His paths. For from Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of Yahweh from Jerusalem.

(CLV) Jn 8:31
Jesus, then, said to the Jews who have believed Him, "If ever you should be remaining in My word, you are truly My disciples,

(CLV) Jn 8:32
and you will know the truth, and the truth will be making you free."

(CLV) Ps 119:105
Your word is a lamp to my feet, And a light to my tracks.

Yahshua is the living Torah!

If we walk in his ways; we walk in the Torah.

Mr. M · Jun 16, 2020

HARK! said:
In the beginning was the word.

(CLV) Jn 14:6
Jesus is saying to him, "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one is coming to the Father except through Me.

==================================================
THE WAY
==================================================

(CLV) Ex 18:20
You will warn them with the statutes and the laws and make known to them the way in which they shall go and the deeds which they shall do.

(CLV) Dt 10:12
And now, Israel, what is Yahweh your Elohim asking of you, save to fear Yahweh your Elohim, to walk in all His ways, to love Him and to serve Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul,

(CLV) Jos 22:5
But observe meticulously to keep the instruction and the law that M woses the servant of Yahweh enjoined on you: to love Yahweh your Elohim and to walk in all His ways, to observe His instructions, to cling to Him and to serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul.

(CLV) 1Ki 2:3
You will keep the charge of Yahweh your Elohim to walk in His ways, to observe His statutes and His instructions, His ordinances and His testimonies as written in the law of Moses, so that you may act intelligently in all that you do and everywhere that you turn around,

(CLV) Ps 119:1
Happy are those whose way is flawless, Who are walking in the law of Yahweh.

(CLV) Pr 6:23
For instruction is a lamp, and law is a light, And the reproofs of admonition are the way to life,

(CLV) Isa 2:3
Many peoples will come and say: Come, and let us ascend to the Mount of Yahweh, To the house of the Elohim of Jacob; And He shall direct us out of His ways, So that we may indeed walk in His paths. For from Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of Yahweh from Jerusalem.

(CLV) Mal 2:8
Yet you withdraw from the way. You cause many to stumble at the law. You ruin the covenant of Levi, says Yahweh of hosts.

(CLV) Ac 24:14
"Yet I am avowing this to you, that, according to the way which they are terming a sect, thus am I offering divine service to the hereditary God, believing all that is written, according to the law and in the prophets,

==================================================
THE TRUTH
==================================================

(CLV) Ps 119:142
Your righteousness is eonian righteousness, And Your law is truth.

(CLV) Mal 2:6
The law of truth, it came to be in his mouth, and iniquity, it was not found on his lips. In peace and in uprightness he walked with Me, and turned many back from depravity.

(CLV) Jn 8:31
Jesus, then, said to the Jews who have believed Him, "If ever you should be remaining in My word, you are truly My disciples,

(CLV) Jn 8:32
and you will know the truth, and the truth will be making you free."

(CLV) Ro 2:20
a discipliner of the imprudent, a teacher of minors, having the form of knowledge and the truth in the law.

==================================================
THE LIFE
==================================================

(CLV) Jb 33:30
To restore his soul from the pit, To enlighten him with the light of the living.

(CLV) Ps 36:9
For with You is the fountain of life; In Your light shall we see light.

(CLV) Pr 6:23
For instruction is a lamp, and law is a light, And the reproofs of admonition are the way to life

===============================================
THE LIGHT
==================================================

(CLV) Jn 8:12
Again, then, Jesus speaks to them, saying, "I am the Light of the world. He who is following Me should under no circumstances be walking in darkness, but will be having the light of life."

(CLV) Jb 24:13
They are among those revolting against the light; They neither recognize its ways Nor dwell in its tracks.

(CLV) Ps 119:105
Your word is a lamp to my feet, And a light to my tracks.

(CLV) Pr 6:23
For instruction is a lamp, and law is a light, And the reproofs of admonition are the way to life,

(CLV) Isa 51:4
Attend to Me, My people, And, My folk, give ear to Me! For a law shall go forth from Me, And My judgment for a light of the peoples.

(CLV) 2Co 6:14
Do not become diversely yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness? Or what communion has light with darkness?

(CLV) 1Jn 1:7
Yet if we should be walking in the light as He is in the light, we are having fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, is cleansing us from every sin.

==================================================
THE WORD
===============================================

(CLV) Jn 1:14
And the Word became flesh and tabernacles among us, and we gaze at His glory, a glory as of an only-begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

(CLV) Isa 2:3
Many peoples will come and say: Come, and let us ascend to the Mount of Yahweh, To the house of the Elohim of Jacob; And He shall direct us out of His ways, So that we may indeed walk in His paths. For from Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of Yahweh from Jerusalem.

(CLV) Jn 8:31
Jesus, then, said to the Jews who have believed Him, "If ever you should be remaining in My word, you are truly My disciples,

(CLV) Jn 8:32
and you will know the truth, and the truth will be making you free."

(CLV) Ps 119:105
Your word is a lamp to my feet, And a light to my tracks.

Yahshua is the living Torah!

If we walk in his ways; we walk in the Torah.

Messiah 101:
Isaiah 11:4. But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Genesis 49:10. The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Add them to your database!

HARK! · Jun 16, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Add them to your database!

I'm well familiar with the scripture. Pretty standard fare.

Mr. M · Jun 17, 2020

Isaiah 30:33. For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.
Tophet=Lake of Fire

Shrewd Manager · Jun 17, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Mt 22:41
Now, the Pharisees being gathered, Jesus inquires of them,

(CLV) Mt 22:42
saying, "What are you supposing concerning the Christ? Whose Son is He?" They are saying to Him, "David's."

(CLV) Mt 22:43
He is saying to them, "How, then, is David, in spirit, calling Him Lord, saying,

(CLV) Mt 22:44
`Said the Lord to my Lord, "Sit at My right, Till I should be placing Thine enemies" underneath "Thy feet"'?

(CLV) Mt 22:45
If, then, David is calling Him Lord, how is He his Son?"

(CLV) Mt 22:46
And not one was able to answer Him a word, neither dares anyone, from that day, inquire of Him any longer.

Jesus schooling the Pharisees on this point does show that David was aware that Jesus was greater than him, as Salvation proceeds from, and is the highest expression of, Love. But was David briefed up on the revelation of grace and truth to come at Calvary?

The fact that he was aware of the pattern of suffering and redemption (he lived it, after all), but not of the means, is amply demonstrated by the famous Psalm 22, where one could surmise that as a prophet David was aware of the great glory God would achieve through the travails of a faithful suffering servant, with the result:

All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, And all the families of the nations will worship before You. For the kingdom is the LORD'S And He rules over the nations. All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship, All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him, Even he who cannot keep his soul alive. (Ps 22:27-29)

So it was indeed given to David to foresee God's great victory over death, and all the nations being subdued by God's righteousness (v.31). But the fulfilment of the promise will not occur until the end times, as we see in Rev 21:24a and 22:2c:

The nations will walk by its light [...] and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

So great harmony of the scriptures emerges from a spiritual reading and faith in the total victory of Christ, the salvation of all mankind.

Shrewd Manager · Jun 17, 2020

Dkh587 said:
the Prophets taught long ago what would happen to the wicked: they would be destroyed forever - Messiah & the Apostles confirmed their teachings.

Agreed.

Dkh587 said:
The Messiah did not teach in opposition to the Prophets that proceeded him, but rather he fully revealed what they taught - they did not teach the wicked attaining eternal life, but rather, they taught eternal death of the wicked.

Agreed. The wicked are destroyed in order that they be saved. The old man put off, the robes washed, the flesh killed, the self died-to, the lepers cleansed, the dead raised up and so on. The metaphors are plentiful, and are all associated with the great revelation of ultimate salvation that the prophets understood. But in Jesus the dimensions of salvation are shown to be absolute. The resurrection of Jesus is God's revelation of the destiny of humanity. All things made new in Christ, the way the truth and the life, the alpha and omega.

Dkh587 said:
in fact, everything Messiah and the Apostles taught must line up with what the Prophets taught, and not the other way around.

none of the Prophets taught anything other than eternal destruction for the wicked. It is a wonderfully simple reality - no hopscotching, shucklebucking, or sugar footing necessary to understand it.

It's a shame that you consider the soaring scriptures I gave in such a poor light, and suggest that Jesus was just another prophet. He was the son of God, the word made flesh, come to fulfil the law and reveal the truth. Unfortunately many still find ways to doubt.

"Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU, FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED." (Rev 15:4, Song of Moses and the Lamb)

The Bible is saturated in universalist promise and prophecy, so don't be afraid to read scripture Christologically, and do feel free to have a little faith in the total victory of Christ.

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE UNREPENTANT WICKED AFTER THE 2ND COMING?

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Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

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