Theodicy-Why do bad things happen to good people

Randy B · Jun 17, 2020

My loss of faith began with scientific, or historical, questions. Since then, though, many philosophical questions have risen that lead me to further question Christian faith. I believe the foremost of these is the question of theodicy.
If there is a loving, perfectly just, all-powerful God, why do bad things happen to good people? I am interested to hear how Christians on this forum address this.
My illustration is this:
In real life, I am the father of two girls, 6 and 8 years old. If I was sitting on one end of a room, with a gun in my hand, and someone was raping my daughter on the other end of the room, what kind of father would I be if I just sat there and watched and did nothing to stop it? I have a gun in my hand, I could do something to stop it, but for whatever reason, I chose not to. Judging by the lowliest human standards, in my opinion, I would not have met my duties as a father. If God is perfectly just and all-powerful, how can He stand by and watch children starve to death, be raped, and murdered?

Radagast · Jun 17, 2020

Randy B said:
If there is a loving, perfectly just, all-powerful God, why do bad things happen to good people?

Short answer: because of sin.

Long answer: read this book.

Randy B said:
If God is perfectly just and all-powerful, how can He stand by and watch children starve to death, be raped, and murdered?

Well, God didn't "stand by." Jesus was born in Bethlehem to put in place a complete and thorough solution to the problems of sin, pain, and death.

And when I say "complete and thorough" I mean that it's not just rapists and murderers that constitute the problem. The problems of the human race go far deeper than one or two "bad apples."

Randy B · Jun 17, 2020

Well, God didn't "stand by." Jesus was born in Bethlehem to put in place a complete and thorough solution to the problems of sin, pain, and death.[/QUOTE]

You think that Jesus being born in Bethlehem gives one ounce of comfort to a child (who perhaps has never even heard of Jesus) who is being raped or murdered? And yes, he did stand by. He didn't do anything to stop it. He allowed it to happen, though he supposedly could have stopped it with a snap of his fingers.
What is just about that? Does that seem fair to you?

Mountainmanbob · Jun 17, 2020

Randy B said:
If there is a loving, perfectly just, all-powerful God, why do bad things happen to good people?

I am interested to hear how Christians on this forum address this.
My illustration is this:
In real life, I am the father of two girls, 6 and 8 years old. If I was sitting on one end of a room, with a gun in my hand, and someone was raping my daughter on the other end of the room, what kind of father would I be if I just sat there and watched and did nothing to stop it? I have a gun in my hand, I could do something to stop it, but for whatever reason, I chose not to. Judging by the lowliest human standards, in my opinion, I would not have met my duties as a father. If God is perfectly just and all-powerful, how can He stand by and watch children starve to death, be raped, and murdered?

Let me go find a good person
and I'll get back to you.
M

Radagast · Jun 17, 2020

Randy B said:
And yes, he did stand by. He didn't do anything to stop it. He allowed it to happen, though he supposedly could have stopped it with a snap of his fingers.
What is just about that? Does that seem fair to you?

As I suspected from your introduction, this is anti-Christian polemic rather than genuine questions. I will not be responding to your other posts.

But would you have preferred God's other option? All sinful human beings are instantly exterminated (including you, of course)?

disciple Clint · Jun 17, 2020

Randy B said:
My loss of faith began with scientific, or historical, questions. Since then, though, many philosophical questions have risen that lead me to further question Christian faith. I believe the foremost of these is the question of theodicy.
If there is a loving, perfectly just, all-powerful God, why do bad things happen to good people? I am interested to hear how Christians on this forum address this.
My illustration is this:
In real life, I am the father of two girls, 6 and 8 years old. If I was sitting on one end of a room, with a gun in my hand, and someone was raping my daughter on the other end of the room, what kind of father would I be if I just sat there and watched and did nothing to stop it? I have a gun in my hand, I could do something to stop it, but for whatever reason, I chose not to. Judging by the lowliest human standards, in my opinion, I would not have met my duties as a father. If God is perfectly just and all-powerful, how can He stand by and watch children starve to death, be raped, and murdered?

It is not possible for us to understand God, I am certain that you have read the book of Job. We live in a fallen world filled with sin, man misuses his freewill agency. If there was no suffering there would be no need for us to help each other. We are not going to be able to change the world but we can reach out to help others who need our help and we can reach out to others when we need help ourselves. The Kingdom of God is people helping people in God's name. I trust God, I have been through some difficult times and experiences but God has always been there for me when I absolutely needed Him. I have faith that he will be there for you and your family. satan wants you to give up hope and serve him, that would be the worst thing you could do for your family. God moves very slowly but He always gets there in time. Prayers for you and your family. by the way lock the gun up.

Randy B · Jun 17, 2020

Mountainmanbob said:
Let me go find a good person
and I'll get back to you.
M

How do you apply this to innocent children? Babies? This is a genuine question. I am not attacking Christianity.

Mountainmanbob · Jun 17, 2020

Randy B said:
How do you apply this to innocent children? Babies? This is a genuine question. I am not attacking Christianity.

I think that what we call good and what God calls good to be two different things.
M

Randy B · Jun 17, 2020

Radagast said:
As I suspected from your introduction, this is anti-Christian polemic rather than genuine questions. I will not be responding to your other posts.

But would you have preferred God's other option? All sinful human beings are instantly exterminated (including you, of course)?

I believe that there may have been a third option: prevent suffering among innocent children, without exterminating all sinful human beings...

Mountainmanbob · Jun 17, 2020

If we question God
we probably do not
understand or know him.

Book of Job
puts man in his place regarding this issue.

M

Randy B · Jun 17, 2020

Mountainmanbob said:
I think that what we call good and what God calls good to be two different things.
M

How can God deem innocent children not to be good?

Mountainmanbob · Jun 17, 2020

Randy B said:
How can God deem innocent children not to be good?

I'm not saying that He does.
Do you have a Bible verse that states that?
M

This may help?

Tolworth John · Jun 17, 2020

Randy B said:
I believe that there may have been a third option: prevent suffering among innocent children, without exterminating all sinful human beings..

You admit adults are sinful, yet maintain that children are innocent.
Your problem is if God delt with all sinful adults it would, in your words, leave innocent children to starve.

There is also the problem of who's system of morality do we use, yours or humanities or the creator God's?

Randy B said:
how can He stand by and watch children starve to death, be raped, and murdered?

What about the responcibility of those doing the raping and murdering?
Is it only God who is responsible?

Starvation, why are they starving, an act of God or act of man?

The challenge to all humanity is to live as God wants us to live and that means caring for those in destress, caught by earthquakes, hurricanes etc etc.

A question for you.
Why do you care about children dying in Yeman?
What reason do you have for caring, that is in what set of ideas do you get the idea that you should care?

Randy B · Jun 17, 2020

Mountainmanbob said:
If we question God
we probably do not
understand or know him.

Book of Job
puts man in his place regarding this issue.

M

Shouldn't authority stand up to questioning?
Yes, Job...Where God and Satan play a game with the lives of Job and his family. Satan bets that Job will curse God to his face if Job's life is made unpleasant enough. So God kills Job's children and sends various torments upon him. Although Job curses the day he was born and says some nasty things about God, he doesn't curse God , so he is rewarded with a new, even better, children.
If you heard of someone killing someone's children to test their faith, would that be ok?

This is what I don't understand. For some reason, God gets a pass. If a person did some of this stuff, everyone would call it despicable.
I have logic and I have morals. Why shouldn't I be able to use them and why wouldn't God's actions hold up to those standards?

Randy B · Jun 17, 2020

What about the responcibility of those doing the raping and murdering?
Is it only God who is responsible?

Starvation, why are they starving, an act of God or act of man?

The challenge to all humanity is to live as God wants us to live and that means caring for those in destress, caught by earthquakes, hurricanes etc etc.

A question for you.
Why do you care about children dying in Yeman?
What reason do you have for caring, that is in what set of ideas do you get the idea that you should care?[/QUOTE]

Is God the only one responsible? No, but he can do something about it and chooses not to.
They're starving because of a lack of food in the region. It could be anybody's fault.

I care about children dying in Yemen because innocent children are suffering through no fault of their own. I would hate if that were my children. It seems to me that the less suffering, the better.

Dave L · Jun 17, 2020

Randy B said:
My loss of faith began with scientific, or historical, questions. Since then, though, many philosophical questions have risen that lead me to further question Christian faith. I believe the foremost of these is the question of theodicy.
If there is a loving, perfectly just, all-powerful God, why do bad things happen to good people? I am interested to hear how Christians on this forum address this.
My illustration is this:
In real life, I am the father of two girls, 6 and 8 years old. If I was sitting on one end of a room, with a gun in my hand, and someone was raping my daughter on the other end of the room, what kind of father would I be if I just sat there and watched and did nothing to stop it? I have a gun in my hand, I could do something to stop it, but for whatever reason, I chose not to. Judging by the lowliest human standards, in my opinion, I would not have met my duties as a father. If God is perfectly just and all-powerful, how can He stand by and watch children starve to death, be raped, and murdered?

In some cases, the suffering of the children is directly related to the sins of their fathers.
“Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;” Exodus 20:5 (KJV 1900)

Randy B · Jun 17, 2020

Mountainmanbob said:
I'm not saying that He does.
Do you have a Bible verse that states that?
M

This may help?

I said that children were good.
You said that "I think that what we call good and what God calls good to be two different things."
Seems to me that you were implying that God doesn't necessarily think children are good. I must have misunderstood.

Randy B · Jun 17, 2020

Dave L said:
In some cases, the suffering of the children is directly related to the sins of their fathers.
“Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;” Exodus 20:5 (KJV 1900)

Does that seem fair and just to you? To punish children for their father's deeds.

If I sent someone to jail because their father murdered someone, would that be ok?
I'm just trying to apply the common morals we use today to things that are going on today and to the Bible.

Dave L · Jun 17, 2020

Randy B said:
Does that seem fair and just to you? To punish children for their father's deeds.

If I sent someone to jail because their father murdered someone, would that be ok?
I'm just trying to apply the common morals we use today to things that are going on today and to the Bible.

He forbids you sending someone to jail for someone else's crime. But scripture says what it says and the more you read, the worse it looks for sinners and their families.

Randy B · Jun 17, 2020

Dave L said:
He forbids you sending someone to jail for someone else's crime. But scripture says what it says and the more you read, the worse it looks for sinners and their families.

He forbids you for sending someone to jail for someone else's crime, but it's ok for God to punish someone their father's sins? How does that work?

“Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;” Exodus 20:5 (KJV 1900)

Theodicy-Why do bad things happen to good people

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