Dawkins Evolution vs God - (Both Win)

In early 1970's, I attended Richard Dawkins presentation on Darwin's Evolution in England.
Dawkins was using his famous computer simulation of the progression of Natural selection that build the "bat" shape.
To do this, he had a 3x3 grid with the progressing shape in the middle and he chose an addition out of 8 surrounding possibilities which would result in millions of combinations to reach that bat.
To save time in the presentation, Richard typed in the numbers that got him there.
eg. 1,3,8,2,6,1,7,5,3,4,9,3,4.
I said "Well why cannot God do this?"
Do we have any evidence of this? YES - The Bible has examples where God chose David, #11 son instead of the 10 elder sons, and Jacob over 1st born Esau.
This seems to me that God uses the PROCESS of EVOLUTION that we have discovered with all its possibilities, BUT God choses the path through these possibilities.
Note: Dawkins doesn't seem to use the program in the same way nowdays. Wonder if he realised the same issue?
Cheers
Stephen

Interested to hear any thoughts/questions as I'm looking at combining this into my current topics in trying to prove Genesis can be what it says.
Currently trying to resolve
Why Rainbow was not created, but appeared after the flood. Possibly why Egypt ended up with a famine and then the Sahara. (I need someone with expertise on weather/climate to help though)
Flood - Theory on water generation, now could it cover 5000metre mt Ararat - Was it water? we had a 7km thick Snowball Earth didn't we?
The Fall 1 - Why we are now dying due to fruit.
The Fall 2 - Childbirth Birth pains and Subordination to husband - (Think of the difference between human child and ape child.)
Are we descended from Apes? - I think Yes, Thanks to Dr Gerald Shroeder..

hi coffee4u,
Apologies for the delay.
This is really confusing to see who is who because the forum program doesn't separate more than one comment, but I hope this works.
Im going to have top split this into parts because the program cannot handle the number of characters *Sigh*

So you believe since David is the tenth son and because Jacob is the second son, this is proof that God created the world through Evolution?
How do you figure those numbers have anything to do with evolution and what about all the children who are differently numbered? Seth, Noah etc.
Scripture tells us in everyday language what happened.
Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

> David is either the 7th or Eighth.
> Joseph had at least 10.
For some reason, my notepad copy/paste cleared a line out :/
Anyway it gives me a chance to re-phrase.

>Evolution is survival from a group of possibilities.
We do not see God *choosing from the millions of possibilities of Dinosaurs, reptiles etc etc
But what we Do see, is :-
David was *chosen, The last son from a list of possibilities,
Did God Choose David Because He Had a Good Heart?
Joseph was *chosen, the last son from a list of possibilities.
God chose the last son, not the first son.
Naturally occuring Evolution may have probably choosen the first son.
> This to me was a fair example of God choosing people / the path of the Bible from a group of possibilities, the same way that Richard Dawkins chose the path of the "Evolutionary possibilities.".

Jacob "The deciever" was chosen over the firstborn.
When God had no reason to choose Jacob over Esau

>God knew whom He was going to choose from the evolutionary list of 2 in this case.
We do not know what the Bible would have looked like if God had chosen Esau over Jacob, but there would effectively have been a different "Evolutionary" direction.

I'm concentrating on the parrallel of choosing.
Choosing who is favoured in the Bible, and choosing a new step in animal development.
We know God didn't blast all species into existence, because God has laid evidence of His work. We know humans have adjusted species.
We Humans haven't stopped developing.
Three High-Altitude Peoples, Three Adaptations to Thin Air
https://journals.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/jappl.1958.13.2.211
Genetic mutation helps Aboriginal people survive tough climate, research finds

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Genesis tells us clearly that God created in 6 days through special creation.

Which Dr Shroeder agrees. Using Scientific Astrophysics, from the point of view of the centre of the universe, the total time - 14 billion years adjusts to 6.5 days.
Did you look at the video?
Looking at a baseball game, say, A pitcher pitches once every 30 seconds, The batter recieves the pitch every 30 seconds, but hits short, middle and long distance.
The time taken for the ball to go to hand is 2 seconds, 4 seconds (2 extra seconds), and 6 seconds (4 extra seconds), but the ball coming from the bat is always 2 seconds.
Earth is the Fielder, moving away from the centre of the universe collecting those 2 second hits at longer and longer times.
Scientists measuring time via light (which is not instantaneous), have to adjust to this. There is a Scientific formula. This affects ALL backwards time calculations.
If you apply this adjustment to 14 billion years of creation, then from the perspective of centre of the universe, the batter, 14 billion years is 6.5 days.
Please check, but this adjustment is in all estimates of earth history, which below may not be exact either.

Dating Rocks and Fossils Using Geologic Methods | Learn Science at Scitable
This is a cool Site. It shows estimate by laying the ranges of dates - note not exact dates ranges, so you could have a total date range max and minimum difference of bollions of years.

Uses carbon 14 depletion rates to determine dates, however, say there was a LOT of carbon 14 in one era of 1000 million years and almost none in the next era, 1000 million years, then thered be a difference.

This is just my example..
eg on a rainy day, it is hard to hang dry wet clothes. So in the first era the depletion would be 1/2 year's depletion per actual year (showing an era of "500 million years")
In the second it would be 3 year's depletion per actual year (showing an era of ("3000 million years")
True Total = 2000 Million years
Estimated total = 3500 million years, AND the rate of change in fossils between the two layers is totally changed; people would think that the development of creatures in the first era was incredibly fast, and the second incredibly slow, when in fact it was completely even.

The rainbow was a sign of Gods promise to never flood the entire world again.
1) The rainbow occurred then because there had been no rain up until the flood. Before that God watered the earth from below the ground.
Genesis 2:6
but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground.
Correct.
Everytime it rains and a rainbow appears it is a reminder to us that God won't cause this type of flood by rain ever again.

2) This is why nobody took any notice of Noah's preaching. Apart from being evil people, they didn't know what rain was, let alone a flood. They must have thought Noah was mad building a huge boat up on dry land. Noah believed by faith.
> Good point, If someone in accounting told me they were told by God to build the worlds largest Ski resort, I'd be a little worried. Then an Ice age came and I'd be like "drat it I should have listened!!"
> Also, Noah may well have had no idea of how to build a boat of the specifications that God gave him. Imagine being asked the build the Queen Mary ship. yes he had 120 years to work on it, and probably contractors, but still, it seems many people nowdays don't know how he physically built it. But the main point is he did, and it worked, because he believed God was going to make it happen.. Just like Peter when he started to walk on water. But unlike Peter, Noah was not fazed by any failures in the project.

2 Peter 2:5

5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;

2) This is also proof the flood was global not local, because God's promise was that he would never flood the earth like that again. If the flood was local than God has broken his promise many times over.
> True. Also, if it was only local, then why bother to get all of the animals on the ark?
> Trees seemed to have survived - obviously else Noah would have had to collect seeds, and Noah used trees to tell of the waters had receeded enough.

Genesis 9
13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.”

The world at creation was surrounded by a thick water vapour canopy.
> Agree, i think I came across a commentary that the Hebrew saw it as a blanket.
Genesis 1:7
Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.

This kept the earth warm and filtered out space radiation decreasing the rate of ageing. This allowed for long life and long growth times for certain animals. 900 seems to be about the average life span for mankind before the flood.
5 Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.
8 Altogether, Seth lived a total of 912 years, and then he died.
1 Altogether, Enosh lived a total of 905 years, and then he died.

You can see that happening repeatedly between the fall and the flood.

Part 2
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not sure what you mean by a snowball.
> Snowball Earth Ice covered the earth totally
Earth : The making of a planet
----------0650 Million Years ago
(Snowball Earth)
25:42 Southern Australia
26:00 Kilometre high wall of ice.

According the Doco, We then had fire cover the earth - which pushed all life back into the sea.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
----------0250 Million Years ago
(RE melting of Gondwana- The Permean Extinction)
50:00 "Siberian Flood basalt Eruption" Massive plume of mantle is rising up like a bubble of soup in a pot and breaks through fissures in Gondwana
51:40 Only affecting one side of Gondwana, however ash covers the unnafected areas killing all in those areas as well.
52:20 The atmosphere is full of sulfur dioxide creating sulfuric acid rain
53:00 Hotter, water evaporates, and Oxygen is stripped from the oceans
53:40 The Oceans are turning pink. Only Pink algae left. NONE of the previous Plants, animals in sea OR land exist
~~~~~
54:38 Methane (greenhouse gas) that had been frozen under the ocean bed is now escaping from the Oceans
55:46 500,000 years since the eruption. The Lava is the size of the USA, and 6km deep.
56:12 95% of life destroyed
56:33 250 million years ago and back to the start.
54:38 Methane (greenhouse gas) that had been frozen under the ocean bed is now escaping from the Oceans
55:46 500,000 years since the eruption. The Lava is the size of the USA, and 6km deep
58:14 Dinosaurs Appear - all evolved from the handful of survivor reptile.

This water was held up by God until the flood, at which point the 'windows of heaven opened'

> we have Humidity and Dew Point. Each change.
A very general example,
"The dew point is the temperature to which air must be cooled to become saturated with water vapor. When cooled further, the airborne water vapor will condense to form liquid water (dew). When air cools to its dew point through contact with a surface that is colder than the air, water will condense on the surface."
> So The Earth starts with High Humidity, and high temperature, So no condensation. No Rainbow.
> Then The Earth has High Humidity, and lower temperature, So condensation. Rainbow.

Genesis
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.
Mt Ararat and all the other mountains weren't nearly so tall to begin with, the flood itself pushed them up when the springs of the great deep burst forth. Earthquakes, volcanoes and lots of water from under the crust. the floodwaters came from two directions.

We are not dying from fruit, we are dying from disobedience> sin.
> I was making an obscure reference here We ate the fruit, fruit = plant, plant produces death. I'll explain my idea somewhere else..
BTW I'm throwing out theories, happy to have someone replace them with something else, or ask for more info.
Something like Creation requires an expert in every Science.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned-

Apes are animals, we are not.
> Because we have THE ADAM
1 Corinthians 15:39
All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.

We were made in God's own image from the clay and breathed into life with a soul and a spirit. Only humans have a spirit. If you are descended from an ape then you can't be saved because they do not have a spirit and can't sin. You need to be a sinner to be saved from your sin. Jesus only came to save the descendants of Adam, which is why he is the second Adam.
We need saving not because we were descended from anything; I believe that's not important, we could be descended from aliens, however
1. Because we were given the Adam, and
2. because we ate the fruit that shows us what is evil and good which much more importantly, gave us the choice between good and evil.
It's our deliberate CHOICES that are evil and need saving, not our body heritage.
OK so lets extend this logic a bit.

Jesus came to earth as a mankind because we were mankind at that stage:
If we had become parrots with THE ADAM, would Jesus have come down as a parrot?

> Torah says Make animals as Living souls.
> Torah then differentiates Man by saying IN our image.
> I contend the image of God is Spiritual. Jesus was both man and God.
> Adam was made from the Earth. Not made from Godly materials.
> If you stretch back "Man's" Evolution it is all earthly, so I do not see an issue here.
> The difference is words; I now like to see Adam as PROMOTED from the animals, rather than Created new.
> Adam was the first man. (Homo Sapien)
Torah
Genesis 1
20 RMT: and Elohiym said, the waters will swarm with swarmers of living souls and flyers will fly upon the land, upon the face of the sheet of the skies,
21 RMT: and Elohiym shaped the great crocodile
******
[NOTE!! Earth: the making of a planet has Crocodiles being the first to emerge from the water] and
----------0360 Million Years ago
41:00 tictalic becomes tetrapods - crocodile one of the first land dwellers
41:25 All 4 legged vertebrates come from this. Dinasaurs, Birds, Mammals, Man.
******
all the living souls, the treaders which swarm the waters to their kind, and all the flyers of the wing to his kind, and Elohiym saw that it was functional,
22 RMT: and Elohiym exalted them saying, reproduce and increase and fill the waters in the seas, and the flyers increased in the land,
23 RMT: and evening existed and morning existed, a fifth day,
24 RMT: and Elohiym said, the land will bring out living souls to her kind, beasts and treaders and living ones of the land to her kind, and he existed so,
25 RMT: and Elohiym made living ones of the land to her kind and the beast to her kind and all of the treaders of the ground to his kind, and Elohiym saw that it was functional,
26 RMT: and Elohiym said, we will make a human in our image, like our likeness, and he will rule in the fish of the sea and in the flyers of the skies, and in the beast, and in all the land, and in all the treaders treading upon the land,

> Note: Only Adam is described with the new description of "In our Image"
ie Gods Image ie With a Spirit, ie with THE ADAM.
Nothing to do with the physical body.

> Our Souls are saved, and we will be given a new body, so the concept of THE ADAM works here.
> If our bodies were any part of the saving, then we are going to be ressurrected as deformed, brain damaged, diseased etc.
> I contend that the Us is THE ADAM. (genderless)

Adam - Wikipedia
"Biblical Adam (man, mankind) is created from adamah (earth), and Genesis 1–8 makes considerable play of the bond between them, for Adam is estranged from the earth through his disobedience."

> I see Jesus as ADAM Mk 2 ie The Adam that was not wilful, obeyed God, and was the First.

> Also, how did immediate Biblical resurrection happen when the bodies were rotted?
Lazarus | Biblical Accounts, Description, & Facts
"The account notes that Jesus loved Lazarus and his sisters and that when Lazarus died of illness, Jesus wept and was “greatly disturbed.” Although Lazarus had been entombed for four days by the time Jesus arrived at Bethany, he was raised by Jesus from the dead and emerged from the tomb wearing his burial cloths."
> The person of Lazarus is his Spirit, his ADAM, that was what was placed back, and his body was recreated. = the body has nothing to do with the person.
So if I have a transplant, I do not become someone different, Spiritually or personality.

1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
The scriptures has all the answers in plain writing.

1 Corinthians 15 Interlinear Bible
So Also it has been written, Because the First man Adam into a Soul living the last Adam into a spirit life giving.
So Adam was "INTO A SOUL, Living". Sounds a lot like "Given THE ADAM" to me.

You also forgot the footnotes
I highlighted the bits that supports my points.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 15:45 - 1599 Geneva Bible

1 Corinthians 15:45 That is called a natural body, which is quickened and maintained by a living soul only, such as Adam was, of whom all we are born naturally: and that is said to be a spiritual, which together with the soul is quickened with a far more excellent virtue: to wit, with the Spirit of God, which descendeth from Christ the second Adam unto us.
1 Corinthians 15:45 Adam is called the first man, because he is the root as it were from which we spring: and Christ is the latter man: because he is the beginning of all them that are spiritual, and in him we are all comprehended.
1 Corinthians 15:45 Christ is called a Spirit, by reason of that most excellent nature, that is to say, God who dwelleth in him bodily, as Adam is called a living soul, by reason of the soul which is the best part in him.

can't delete posts..

coffee4u said:

I don't know what you have going on technically, are you not on a PC? But your post is confusing. Do you know how to make a quote? Replace the fancy bracket with the square brackets. {quote} text here {/quote}

I can understand that the post can be confusing; I am trying to tie in Torah with what humans think happened, so it is technical, not bed time reading.
I'm hoping that there are connections.
I'm also hoping that there are people on this forum that have their own ideas on how one oart of Creation/Evolution links to which part of the Bible, can help join the dots.
I'm not worried about people not understanding stuff, because
RE: Quotes,

"1. I worked in I.T. support in Commonwealth Government
2. As technical manager, I integrated a custom database with the Commonwealth website using Sharepoint products.
I program in Access, Sharepoint, Dos, Batchfiles, Windows startup (Regedit modifications), created Custom Application Installs... ... ... ...
So, yes I know a fair bit about I.T. and HTML.
I chose to integrate, not separate my reply as it is a long post, with much switching back and forth by the reader to find what part someone is answering. So I deliberately made it easier. by using a question/answer format."

First thing to know is that I am a literal 6 day creationist, so I am never going to agree with any of that evolution stuff that you have posted -just so you know.
> So what you actually believe in is 7 days creation then?
GEN2 v2 RMT: "and Elohiym finished in the seventh day his business which he did, and he ceased in the seventh day from all his business which he did,"
That's why Shroeder allowed for 6.5 days, because Jews / Torah only see the completion of a DAY as the END of a day.
We tend to see the 6th day Saturday all of today (20/6/20), but the Torah sees it as the 5th day still.
Why? because the Torah doesn't name days, it numbers them on completion.

I see zero connection between order of birth to evolution. God picks based on the heart regardless of when a person is born.
> So you have just just agreed with my thought on God Choosing the path, from alternatives.

God made land animals and man from clay, no blasting required.
> Again you are agreeing with me so far.

I only ever use the word evolving to mean one simple creature changing into a higher creature and that changing into an even more complex creature. From one cell to man or 'macro evolution'.

EG What is the difference?
Organism 1.0
......................Organism 1.2...Died out due to wrong colouring being too obvious to predators
......................Organism 1.3...Continued Producing due to colouring better concealing them from predators

Organism 1.0
......................Organism 1.2...God chose this species to continue
......................Organism 1.3...God *did not* choose his species to continue

If you mean a special adapting then this I call specialization. Of course, this happens, but it is not evolution. They may call it that but I won't.
> So you carry predudices into a logical proposal?
> Thats ok but you have to get rid of them if you are going to have a logical argument, otherwise you are not the droids I'm looking for.
> I could at any time start talking about aliens.
The answer is "aliens are probably not applicable at this point in the Bible because XYZ ."
The Answer is NOT "I don't believe in aliens so you are wrong."

The reason I only use it in that way is words have power. It was to the evolution movements advantage to take that word and use it for both things. This way they can confuse people because if one happens the other must have happened too. Something that I could not disagree with more.
So youre dissagreeing with the post because you dissagree with evolution movements, and not anything to do with what I wrote in the post?

God created the earth outside of time.
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
There was no time on earth at this point. Something created outside of time cannot be measured by time. Now I am not saying it doesn't give back a date in testing but it's neither here nor there. It's meaningless.
Also note creation week has not yet started.
GEN1 v5 RMT: "and Elohiym called out to the light, day, and to the darkness he called out, night, and evening existed and morning existed, a day unit,"
> Time starting BEFORE major creation / Evolution has started.

It may have started directly after this or it may have not. Being outside of time perhaps even the word next is incorrect.
I don't think we time-bound creatures can even fathom what being outside of time even is.
We cannot because everything we do is based on what we have just done - ie time past.
That is why there is so much discussion on wether "For Eternity", or "End of Time" is correct.

The difference with your clothes is that you were not only an eye witness to be able to verify when you put them out, both you and the clothes are inside of the same time Buble. Given that plus other facts that could be accurately measured on that day such as temperature, humidity, wind speed and clothing types, someone could measure how long they took to dry. I would agree here because all the facts were known.
With the earth, we are inside of the time Buble but the earth's creation was not.
Earths creation was at least day 2,3,4,5,6
This is why I do not believe any measurement given to the earth's age. Apart from no eyewitnesses, facts are missing.
Exactly, and that is exactly what I was saying.
This is what the Scientists are doing.
The Example of the clothes is to show that testing something just by saying it has X depleted carbons in it is an issue, if they assume that the depletion of carbons is a constant, which in my example using clothes is not constant.

A flood like that would rip up everything and kill all plants.
PLEASE look at the Bible verse.. the Flood was rising of waters, not a Tsunami.
Genesis 7:10 RMT: and it came to pass within the seven days, and the waters of the flood existed upon the land.

It's very dangerous to assume.
Also addressing below:
Genesis
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

But we know that Land had not formed, so at this stage - IF Science is correct, and this is what I am discussing in this post, then the waters is lava.
Like you say, God sees things differently, and FLUID that is H20 and FLUID that is Lava hotter than the sun may be the same.
Describing it to Moses as fluid may well have been perfectly OK, because Moses and his people would have been terrified by a description that water was not the water he saw coming out of a spring.

We modern people *Think* we know what happened, (that's why I'm trying to compare Bible verses to reality)

>Have you looked at the Earth: Video? and the Shroeder vids?
I keep saying this, but if you haven't then you do not have much connection to my topic.



Genesis 8
6 After forty days Noah opened a window he had made in the ark 7 and sent out a raven, and it kept flying back and forth until the water had dried up from the earth. 8 Then he sent out a dove to see if the water had receded from the surface of the ground. 9 But the dove could find nowhere to perch because there was water over all the surface of the earth; so it returned to Noah in the ark. He reached out his hand and took the dove and brought it back to himself in the ark. 10 He waited seven more days and again sent out the dove from the ark. 11 When the dove returned to him in the evening, there in its beak was a freshly plucked olive leaf! Then Noah knew that the water had receded from the earth. 12 He waited seven more days and sent the dove out again, but this time it did not return to him.
Is all we are told about the plants.
All I can think of is that God literally brought seeds and plants back to life. Certainly, the regrowth of plants here was some kind of supernatural event because 54 days is not long enough for a tree to grow but some kind of small tree must have grown for the dove not to return even though only one week before it was not large enough to be a perch. Perhaps on the very top of the mountain, some plants survived.

Aah so -- you ARE making an assumption, or suggesting a possible scenario, like I'm doing!

I don't think so, the earth was covered in water, not ice. While ice is frozen water it is a different word. No Bible verse mentions ice in connection to creation and ancient Hebrew had no words meaning ice, it was something unknown to them.
If he says it was water than it was water. Assuming it is frozen is us thinking it must be cold without the sun, but we have no idea if there were any such laws of nature yet. God is not limited by natural laws, he created those laws. If he wanted it to be liquid, then it was liquid.
Genesis
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

See above re: LIQUID, WATERS, H20 and Lava.

2 Peter 3:5
But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water.
> again an understanding thing. How would you describe a molten Earth / Lava to Fishermen, so that they could pass on the story properly to people even less educated?


We then know that God took those same waters and divided them, he wasn't dividing ice.
6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

>back at Ya!

6 RMT: and Elohiym said, a sheet will exist in the midst of the waters, and he existed, making a separation between waters to waters,
7 RMT: and Elohiym made the sheet, and he made a separation between the waters which are below for a sheet and the waters which are above for a sheet, and he existed so,
8 RMT: and Elohiym called out to the sheet, skies, and evening existed and morning existed, a second day,

NOTE: "Separation", not sheet, not vault (vault: History of Vaults
vault was a topping cover for Egyptian drains - separation then was basically described as a roof in the middle ages when the Bible was translated.).
So going from inside to outside, Sheet Waters below (Lava: Mantle,Core), "Separation" then Sheet waters above.
God called the SHEET, not the separation Skies.
So what is the separation, that is between Mantle and Skies?
NOTE: If people think waters is sky, then is there two layers of sky with a sheet?
(Yes, sort of)
> again referring to the video you have not looked at, but with the Ice sheets,
This could easily have occured at any stage in the Pangea/Gondwana/ whatever stage of the Earth.

This is why I am looking at this.
/I am hoping others can make suggestions.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
This all refers to liquid and nothing in the verses here suggests it went from solid to liquid water.

I completely disagree, creation was a supernatural act so by its very definition this places it outside of science. I believe what is needed is an expert in doctrine and Hebrew.
I think being reliant on science will lead you down the wrong path.
> I dissagree with your dissagreement. Since when, including water walking, was God's works not using Earth?
> God and Jesus could have had a big fight with Satan in the heavens,
> But instead God/Jesus chose to have a natural standard birth, Earthly upbringing, and apart from a few miracles showing that the Creator of the world was actually standing in front of them, everything was done naturally, Jesus Ate, Drank, wept.
> God even died naturally, by suffocation, and blood loss on a cross.
> My addition to that is that God showed us how we should have been using the world, Walking on water is an example; Peter walked.
> So Walking on water is Natural.
> Jesus used the Spirit, which has ALWAYS been part of the world since GEN chapter 1.
> Healing via the Spirit was something we were meant to do.
>** Like Jesus says though, We need more than a musard seed of Faith.

1 Corinthians 3:19

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, “He is the one who catches the wise in their craftiness”;

"Because we had THE ADAM"
I am unsure what you mean by that.
> Please look at the references I supplied - Shroeder - I have them on my signature block now.

I do not believe that Adam here means mankind in general but a man singular.
Scripture says that God made a man from the clay, breathed down his nostrils so he became a living person with a spirit and a soul. God put him to sleep, took a rib and made a woman. We are all descended from this original pair.
We inherited the sin nature from Adam.

> GEN2 v7 RMT: and YHWH the Elohiym molded the human of dirt from the ground and he exhaled in his nostrils a breath of life and the human existed for a living soul,
> note * Human * existed for a living Soul.
> It is all about the Soul, via the breath of life.

Of course, but what does that have to do with the other things that you were saying? One issue is your post is too long and is attempting to cover too many issues, which makes it both confusing but also replying here is taking ages so I will stop here.

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