JESUS is not the archangel Michael !

klutedavid said:

Angel means messenger in the Hebrew. The exact identity of a divine messenger can alter according to the event. Obviously in Exodus 3:6, we have YHWH as the messenger because the messenger is speaking in the first person.

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I don't think Yahweh can directly speak to any humans it might kill them because of His Holiness and Glory...
As the Bible state that no one can look at God and live, that how pure and holy He is...
So angel was there So God can speak to man through the angel..

klutedavid said:

The name in the Hebrew is YHWH not Yahweh or Jehovah, or any other translation. There is no direct English translation of the name YHWH. Avoid putting vowels into the Hebrew name to make it sound better in English.

Even in archaeology the name YHWH is recorded in ancient Israel.

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How do you pronounce YHWH?

pasifika said:

How do you pronounce YHWH?

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No one knows because the Jews thought up this brilliant idea. That it unholy to say the name of God or to write it. So they all stopped saying YHWH and eventually no one knew later on, how to pronounce YHWH.

The same goes for the scripture, I don't know if a translation uses the original Hebrew 'YHWH'. I think they just use LORD, or GOD, or JEHOVAH, or YEHSHUA. Whatever you do don't say G_d's name. The translators followed the tradition of course.

pasifika said:

I don't think Yahweh can directly speak to any humans it might kill them because of His Holiness and Glory...
As the Bible state that no one can look at God and live, that how pure and holy He is...
So angel was there So God can speak to man through the angel..

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Don't know if that's true. There are numerous times when God speaks directly to people. Think of the prophets, God tells them to start writing.

God the Father spoke directly to three of the apostles during the transfiguration. Remember 'this is my Son listen to Him'.

sparow said:

When Jesus was with us He was human; before He was not human and since He is not human. The apostle John did not know what form He took; the evidence is in favour of Him being Michael but what difference does it make?

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There is zero evidence that the angel of the Lord is Michael. That is speculation.

There is sufficient evidence that the messenger of the Lord is the pre-incarnate Christ.

Mr Sparow, in your church, do you believe in the death and resurrection of Michael?

robycop3 said:

One of the most-heretical notions of the SDA & JW cults is that Jesus and the archangel Michael are one & the same. Let's post BIBLICAL PROOF that notion is false !

God had Jude write, in Jude 9, Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

But Jesus said, & had written in John 8:44,
You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

So we see, while Michael didn't dare revile Satan, JESUS didn't hesitate to ! That's because, as Lord & God, He has that authority, while Michael does not. Very definitely, Michael is not Jesus, nor is Jesus Michael.

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The book of urantia also claims that Jesus is Michael. The suspected authors of this channeled work also believed in the annihilation of the soul and are suspected to be an offshoot of SDA. Though the book of Urantia itself is a interesting work, some parts of it.

At one point it was prophesied that the messiah would be called God with us, Emmanuel and yet when Jesus came he was told to be named Jesus. Michael means who is like God? Jesus means Jehovah frees.

Noxot said:

At one point it was prophesied that the messiah would be called God with us, Emmanuel and yet when Jesus came he was told to be named Jesus. Michael means who is like God? Jesus means Jehovah frees.

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Don't the Jehovah's Witnesses also believe that Michael and Jesus are the same?

klutedavid said:

Don't the Jehovah's Witnesses also believe that Michael and Jesus are the same?

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Op said so. I don't know.

klutedavid said:

Don't the Jehovah's Witnesses also believe that Michael and Jesus are the same?

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Yes.
It's not Christian doctrine.

As I’ve been thinking and studying, I would like to know.

Is there anything in the scripture that indicates that the term archangel is a group or class of angels, and not a title that is unique to 1 specific being?

does any prophet or apostle refer to multiple archangels, or is there only 1?

Noxot said:

At one point it was prophesied that the messiah would be called God with us, Emmanuel and yet when Jesus came he was told to be named Jesus. Michael means who is like God? Jesus means Jehovah frees.

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I am leaning towards Christ being Michael, preincarnation, so the name Michael would not refer to the human form of Christ - it would be one of the name’s Christ bore prior to becoming a human.

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robycop3 said:

God can do ANYTHING, including speaking directly to humans. He spoke directly to Moses, & allowed Mo to see His back. This was definitely God The Father, as when the pre-carnate Jesus appeared to men, those men could see His face, such as when he appeared to Joshua as Captain of the Lord's army.

And I believe Scripture makes it plain that Jesus is not Michael; they're separate beings.

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Nobody has ever seen the Father - Moses was dealing with the pre-incarnate Christ, who was called the Angel of Yahweh, also the Word of Yahweh. The Father did not talk directly to people.

Dkh587 said:

As I’ve been thinking and studying, I would like to know.

Is there anything in the scripture that indicates that the term archangel is a group or class of angels, and not a title that is unique to 1 specific being?

does any prophet or apostle refer to multiple archangels, or is there only 1?

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The problem is that the term, 'archangel', 'angel', 'prince', 'one of the chief princes', and 'the great prince', are used to describe that same messenger Michael.

So is Michael a prince, one of the princes, great prince, an angel, or an archangel?

klutedavid said:

The problem is that the term, 'archangel', 'angel', 'prince', 'one of the chief princes', and 'the great prince', are used to describe that same messenger Michael.

So is Michael a prince, one of the princes, great prince, an angel, or an archangel?

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He is a prince, the great prince, he is first(not one) of the princes, and the archangel, meaning ruler of the angels.

Is there any Scriptural evidence that “archangel” is a category consisting of a group of angels, or is that based on tradition?

this man says that he is the prince of the army of Yahweh:

Joshua 5:14-15

And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?

And he said, Nay; but as prince of the army of Yahweh am I now come.

And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Master unto his servant?

And the prince of the army of Yahweh said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy.

And Joshua did so.

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who is this?

Dkh587 said:

He is a prince, the great prince, he is first(not one) of the princes, and the archangel, meaning ruler of the angels.

Is there any Scriptural evidence that “archangel” is a category consisting of a group of angels, or is that based on tradition?

this man says that he is the prince of the army of Yahweh:

Joshua 5:14-15


who is this?

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That's the issue is it not. This man, prince, is holy and the ground is holy. The same is true of the angel of the Lord in Exodus, the ground was also holy.

The question then follows; when Michael appears is the ground holy?

An archangel must be higher than an angel obviously, but how much higher?

I believe that Michael is a named angel, archangel.

The angel of the Lord is an unnamed messenger.

Judges 13:18-19
But the angel of the Lord said to him, “Why do you ask my name, seeing it is wonderful?” So Manoah took the young goat with the grain offering and offered it...

Judges 13:21-22
Then Manoah knew that he was the angel of the Lord. So Manoah said to his wife, “We will surely die, for we have seen the Lord'

klutedavid said:

That's the issue is it not. This man, prince, is holy and the ground is holy. The same is true of the angel of the Lord in Exodus, the ground was also holy.

The question then follows; when Michael appears is the ground holy?

An archangel must be higher than an angel obviously, but how much higher?

I believe that Michael is a named angel, archangel.

The angel of the Lord is an unnamed messenger.

Judges 13:18-19
But the angel of the Lord said to him, “Why do you ask my name, seeing it is wonderful?” So Manoah took the young goat with the grain offering and offered it...

Judges 13:21-22
Then Manoah knew that he was the angel of the Lord. So Manoah said to his wife, “We will surely die, for we have seen the Lord'

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the angel of Yahweh gives his name in Exodus 3 - he’s not unnamed.

if the man appearing in Joshua 5 is Michael, then yes the ground is holy when he appears.

It looks highly likely that the angel of Yahweh, the Word of Yahweh, Michael, the Prince of the army of Yahweh, the angel of the Presence etc are all different names and titles for 1 figure in the OT, which would be the pre-incarnate Messiah.

Considering that Michael is the archangel, meaning he is the ruler of the angels, that would mean he is the leader/prince of the army of God. The army of God is comprised of angels, whom Michael is the ruler of.

this man in Joshua 5 appears and says he is the prince(which means ruler) of the army of Yahweh.

Do him & Michael occupy different positions? Does Michael rule over part of them, and the man in Joshua 5 rule over another part?

who is the prince of the army of God?

klutedavid said:

The problem is that the term, 'archangel', 'angel', 'prince', 'one of the chief princes', and 'the great prince', are used to describe that same messenger Michael.

So is Michael a prince, one of the princes, great prince, an angel, or an archangel?

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All of the above?
The point is, he is not the eternal Son of God.