Do Two Jerusalems kill the Premill doctrine?

jgr · Jun 15, 2020

nolidad said:
But what is the point? that they reject a future for the nation of Israel?

Not one of them predicts a future for Israel apart from the true Church.

nolidad said:
Replacement theology as it is called now is very old in the Church thought.

Replacement biology is a fallacy of modernist dispensational delusionism.

nolidad said:
christians have been some of the most -anti-semitic people around.

Was Jesus anti-Semitic?

Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Predictably, you fail to distinguish between race and religion. The Church has been, and must be, anti-talmudic and anti-pharisaic, as Christ was. Its battle is religious, not racial.

nolidad said:
They di dnot have much sound eschatological foundations!

Their eschatological foundations were based upon direct experience and accurate recognition of historical prophetic signs and fulfillments, far more sound than modernist dispensational futurized fantasies.

nolidad said:
Just because they are old saints and their works recorded in the works of the antenicen fathers, do not make them some kind of infallible popes!

Modernist dispensational futurists are some kind of infallible popes?

jgr · Jun 16, 2020

nolidad said:
Well I anxiously await to see how you attempt to tie this teaching from Paul with the Prophesy found in Daniel 9!

Do you think that Paul was unaware of Daniel's prophecy?
Do you think that Paul's declaration of the righteousness of God being witnessed by the prophets excluded the prophet Daniel?
Do you think that Paul considered the righteousness which he proclaimed to be entirely unrelated to the righteousness which Daniel prophesied?
Do you think that Paul believed that there were two different righteousnesses?
Do you think that when Paul declared that the righteousness of God was manifested now for all, he actually believed that it would be manifested later for Jews?
Do you think that Paul believed that the righteousness which he proclaimed was not the fulfillment of the righteousness which Daniel prophesied?

The answers are self-evident.

Daniel's prophesied righteousness and Paul's proclaimed righteousness are one and the same righteousness, brought in at Calvary, and fulfilled in all (both Jew and Gentile) that believe now.

nolidad said:
Israel as a people can only be teh seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Israel as a people were those faithful and obedient to God under His covenant.

He slew the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob by the thousands when they forsook that covenant.

There is only one seed that God has ever recognized.

It is the spiritual seed of faith and obedience.

The two genes of spiritual DNA.

nolidad said:
The proselytes were part of greater Israel but not Israel proper.

Scripture?
(Hint: There is none).

nolidad said:
If the strangers (yeah that is what God called them), were circumcised and obeyed the law of Moses they were to be considered like an Israeli, key word, like but as for the the promises- (the land, the throne etc) they were for the seed only!

So when God fulfilled His land promise in Joshua 21:43, He first racially segregated out non-ethnic Israelites, and denied them His promise?

What did he do with them then?

nolidad said:
Funny, but a proselyte was forbidden to enter the inner court of the temple, by God except to bring a sacrifice, otherwise he was restricted to the outer court (which was closer than the court of women).

Scripture?

BABerean2 · Jun 16, 2020

Douggg said:
I don't care as far as knowing that the messiah arrived in Jerusalem on what Christians celebrate as Psalms Sunday. Four days later, he was cutoff, crucified, and three days later rose from being dead on Easter.

No calendar necessary.

So? Fact is Jesus did not take away the sins of the world until dying on the cross. Not when he was baptized by John.

There is nothing in Daniel 9 text about the beginning of the messiah ministry - that is some man-made theory.

The only covenant found in Daniel 9 is the one that Daniel's people transgressed. And the confirming of that covenant on a 7 year cycle is found in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

That the 7 years are in Ezekiel 39; and in Revelation 11 and Revelation 12 by adding the timeframes, is more evidence the 70th week is still future.

The 70 weeks do not end with the stoning of Stephen, a negative incident, and nothing on par with the Second Coming glorious return of Jesus in great power and glory which will be the true ending of the 70 weeks. The theory that you are holding, and them who think likewise, is an offense to the Second Coming of Jesus.

Christ's sacrifice is not the only event found in Daniel chapter 9.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Do the scriptures below reveal a time period of about 7 years when the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles?

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (When was the Gospel taken "first" to the Jews?)

Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

Are we supposed to believe Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah, and then Gabriel appeared to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would bring in the New Covenant found in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant? The answer is found below.

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH— (from Jeremiah 31)

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

The scriptures above reveal the fact that you cannot separate the New Covenant from the death, and blood of Jesus. If the death of Jesus is found in Daniel 9, then the New Covenant must be a part of Daniel 9.

.

Ed Parenteau · Jun 16, 2020

Douggg said:
The King of Tyre is a code name for Satan. The verses are about Satan, not human being.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Really? Who told you that the king of Tyre wasn't a man, and who told you that the anointed cherub that covereth is satan?
Does the king of Tyre not remind you of 2 Thess 2:4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
Ezekiel 28:
2“Son of man, say to the leader of Tyre, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD,
“Because your heart is lifted up
And you have said, ‘I am a god,
I sit in the seat of gods
In the heart of the seas’;
Yet you are a man and not God,
Although you make your heart like the heart of God—

9‘Will you still say, “I am a god,”
In the presence of your slayer,
Though you are a man and not God,
In the hands of those who wound you?

mkgal1 · Jun 16, 2020

Douggg said:
I don't care as far as knowing that the messiah arrived in Jerusalem on what Christians celebrate as Psalms Sunday. Four days later, he was cutoff, crucified, and three days later rose from being dead on Easter.

No calendar necessary.

I disagree. It's all based on the cycle of the ancient Hebrew Sabbath cycles of 7 years....so that calendar is necessary in order to be accurate.

It would be like saying, "I don't need a calendar to know that April 2020 hasn't come" based on an assumption or expectation held about what April 2020 was supposed to look like.

Douggg said:
So? Fact is Jesus did not take away the sins of the world until dying on the cross. Not when he was baptized by John.

There is nothing in Daniel 9 text about the beginning of the messiah ministry - that is some man-made theory.

Again....that's where the calendar comes in handy.

Beginning the "week" (the 7 years) in the middle cuts off 3.5 years that God had allowed to reveal Himself to His people. IOW....it cuts off 3.5 years of Jesus's ministry spent confirming His covenant.

Douggg said:
The only covenant found in Daniel 9 is the one that Daniel's people transgressed. And the confirming of that covenant on a 7 year cycle is found in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

That the 7 years are in Ezekiel 39; and in Revelation 11 and Revelation 12 by adding the timeframes, is more evidence the 70th week is still future.

What do you mean by "by adding the timeframes, it is more evidence the 70th week is still future "?

Douggg said:
The 70 weeks do not end with the stoning of Stephen, a negative incident, and nothing on par with the Second Coming glorious return of Jesus in great power and glory which will be the true ending of the 70 weeks. The theory that you are holding, and them who think likewise, is an offense to the Second Coming of Jesus.

Again, that conclusion is drawn on personal expectation and not the ancient Hebrew Sabbath cycle.

Can't the Crucifixion be seen as "negative"? Isn't that God’s specialty to make good out of what was meant for evil?

Notice who was there at the stoning of Stephen and how this event was a hinge to a new era:

Acts 7:56-58
56“Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”57At this they covered their ears, cried out in a loud voice, and rushed together at him. 58They dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul.

Acts 8:1
1And Saul was there, giving approval to Stephen’s death.

On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria.

Acts 8:4-8
4Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went. 5Philip went down to a city in Samaria and proclaimed the Christ to them. 6The crowds gave their undivided attention to Philip’s message and to the signs they saw him perform. 7With loud shrieks, unclean spirits came out of many who were possessed, and many of the paralyzed and lame were healed. 8So there was great joy in that city

Douggg · Jun 16, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Christ's sacrifice is not the only event found in Daniel chapter 9.

What matters is the arrival of the messiah in Jerusalem and him being cutoff. It is the passover week events celebrated by Christians as Psalms Sunday and Easter Sunday. The 70th week is still unfulfilled.

The only covenant mentioned in Daniel 9 is the covenant that Daniels people transgressed. And that covenant being confirmed requirement on a 7 year cycle is in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

BABerean2 · Jun 16, 2020

Douggg said:
The only covenant mentioned in Daniel 9 is the covenant that Daniels people transgressed.

Dan 9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans;
Dan 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

.

Douggg · Jun 16, 2020

mkgal1 said:
I disagree. It's all based on the cycle of the ancient Hebrew Sabbath cycles of 7 years....so that calendar is necessary in order to be accurate.

Accurate? The gospels are accurate - of what the events were. The calendar issue is a side show.

What you are not going to be able to deny is that Christians celebrate Palms Sunday and Easter Sunday. As Jesus's arrival in Jerusalem in John 12:12-15. Him being cutoff crucified 4 days later. And rising from being dead on Easter Sunday.

When Jesus was baptized by John the baptist in the wilderness is not an event prophesied in Daniel 9. Jesus was anointed by the woman before entering Jerusalem on Psalms Sunday.

Mark 14:8 She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.
9 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.

mkgal1 said:
Beginning the "week" (the 7 years) in the middle cuts off 3.5 years that God had allowed to reveal Himself to His people. IOW....it cuts off 3.5 years of Jesus's ministry spent confirming His covenant.

The only covenant mentioned in Daniel 9 is the one Daniel's people transgressed. And that covenant is required to be confirmed on a 7 year cycle in the text in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

mkgal1 said:
What do you mean by "by adding the timeframes, it is more evidence the 70th week is still future "?

Revelation 11:
1260 days + [3 1/2 days + 42 months (1256.5 days)] = the 7 years.

Revelation 12:
1260 days + [the war in the second heaven time + the time, times, half time] = the 7 years.

Ezekiel 39:
Feast on Gog's army (verse 4) - then 7 years that follow of Daniel 9:27 - then the Armageddon feast (verse 17-20) - then Jesus Himself speaking in the text (verse 21-29) having returned to earth to rule the nations and (verse 28) bring back the remaining Jews to Israel (Matthew 24:31).

....impossible to be wrong.

mkgal1 said:
Again, that conclusion is drawn on personal expectation and not the ancient Hebrew Sabbath cycle.

It is not a personal expectation that the Return of Jesus will be the most spectacular event to ever happen in all of human history - ever.

mkgal1 said:
Can't the Crucifixion be seen as "negative"? Isn't that God’s specialty to make good out of what was meant for evil?

I was not referring to the Crucifixion.

I was referring to the stoning of Stephen, that some claim is the ending of the 70 weeks.

It is negative because it tends to put a bad light on Daniel's people the Jews. And the fact that Stephen was put to death. A depressing way to think is the end of the 70 weeks.

Douggg · Jun 16, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

.

Jeremiah 31:31 is not in Daniel 9. The covenant found in Daniel 9 is the one that Daniel's people transgressed.

BABerean2 · Jun 16, 2020

Douggg said:
Jeremiah 31:31 is not in Daniel 9. The covenant found in Daniel 9 is the one that Daniel's people transgressed.

There is no clear antecedent for an antichrist found in Daniel 9.

(A Hebrew scholar reveals the true covenant in Daniel chapter 9)

.

Douggg · Jun 16, 2020

BABerean2 said:
There is no clear antecedent for an antichrist found in Daniel 9.
.

Find a video that shows the speaker even understands the concept, and function of the Antichrist.

While you are at it find a video by Kelly Varner in which he confesses that them in Ezekiel 39 who God defends are Israel and the Jews calling them "my people".

mkgal1 · Jun 16, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Well done.

To add to this:

Acts 2 - Peter’s sermon to Israel

Key verses:

5Now there were dwellingb in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven

14Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, lifted up his voice, and addressed the crowd: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen carefully to my words.

29Brothers, I can tell you with confidence that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that He would place one of his descendants on his throne.h

So let everyone in Israel know for certain that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, to be both Lord and Messiah!”

37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.”40With many other words he testified, and he urged them, “Be saved from this corrupt generation.” 41Those who embraced his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to the believers that day.j

nolidad · Jun 16, 2020

jgr said:
Not one of them predicts a future for Israel apart from the true Church.

Israel shall reign with the church- though in a different role. This is all for the millenial kingdom order only.

jgr said:
Replacement biology is a fallacy of modernist dispensational delusionism.

Well I can't speak to replacement biology, but replacement theology is a radical heretical theology that many many covenant theology based churches hold! YOu are a prime example of one who holds to replacement theology!

jgr said:
Was Jesus anti-Semitic?

Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Predictably, you fail to distinguish between race and religion. The Church has been, and must be, anti-talmudic and anti-pharisaic, as Christ was. Its battle is religious, not racial.

You really aren't using that to try to throw in my face are you????? YOu cannot be that daft!

jgr said:
Their eschatological foundations were based upon direct experience and accurate recognition of historical prophetic signs and fulfillments, far more sound than modernist dispensational futurized fantasies.

No! They knew only of Pauls warnings in Thesselonians. John had not written teh revelation until the end of teh 1st century and probably had not gone far until the mid to late 2nd century!

If something fulfills a prophecy by 99 44/100% then the prophecy has not been fulfilled! Close enough may be good enough for Nostradamus but not for the Word of God!

jgr said:
Modernist dispensational futurists are some kind of infallible popes?

We both know thae answer to that! But they are far more accurate generally speaking than the 1st, 2nd and 3rd century wirters! That is because we can compare the Scriptures and look back on history and see if they were fulfilled as written . Remember close enough is not good enough with God!

nolidad · Jun 16, 2020

jgr said:
Do you think that Paul was unaware of Daniel's prophecy?
Do you think that Paul's declaration of the righteousness of God being witnessed by the prophets excluded the prophet Daniel?
Do you think that Paul considered the righteousness which he proclaimed to be entirely unrelated to the righteousness which Daniel prophesied?
Do you think that Paul believed that there were two different righteousnesses?
Do you think that when Paul declared that the righteousness of God was manifested now for all, he actually believed that it would be manifested later for Jews?
Do you think that Paul believed that the righteousness which he proclaimed was not the fulfillment of the righteousness which Daniel prophesied?

The answers are self-evident.

Daniel's prophesied righteousness and Paul's proclaimed righteousness are one and the same righteousness, brought in at Calvary, and fulfilled in all (both Jew and Gentile) that believe now.

Well a sPaul was the Apostle to the Gentiles- when you read his letters, you see not much of a Jewish flavor to them!

There is only one righteousness, but every time the word righteousness appears it is not abpout personal righteousness. Daniel spoke of the Jew (the 12 sons of Jacob) and Jerusalem had to bring in righteousness to the Jew and to Jerusalem. It hasn't happened yet. If you had a foundastion of OT understanding you would see many times God spoke of the unrighteousness of Jerusalem! Jesus death did not bring in righteousness to every Jew or to Jerusalem yet!

jgr said:
Israel as a people were those faithful and obedient to God under His covenant.

He slew the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob by the thousands when they forsook that covenant.

There is only one seed that God has ever recognized.

It is the spiritual seed of faith and obedience.

The two genes of spiritual DNA.

Israel as a people are the seed of abraham Isaac and Jacob- read Genesis and learn! Then read Jeremiah 31 when God says the WHOLE house of Israel and Judah! not just teh righteous and obedient- but the whole house!

Yes God killed them and had them enslaved many times- but God himself said that these things dfid not negate His covenant with them! When God says He will- He will. And God made promises to teh nation (all Jews) and they will come to pass. REad the prophets and learn.

For Israel their are two seeds- the obedient (called the remnant) and the natural seed which is all children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And concerinig the future state of the natural seed there is this:

Zech. 13:

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Hitler killed 1/3 of all Jews, the Antichrist will kill 2/3! Then the 1/3 will turn to the Lord as God said SHALL COME TO PASS! And as Paul reemphasized in Romans 11 when He said all Israel saved be saved.

For anyone to say that what Paul says actually means all the faithful Jews will be saved is sheer foolishness! Of course all faithful Jews will be saved just like all faithful gentiles will be saved! Paul teaxches eternal securioty for all who call upon the Lord so to say this means just faithful Jews is plain silly!

mkgal1 · Jun 16, 2020

Douggg said:
Accurate? The gospels are accurate - of what the events were. The calendar issue is a side show.

"Side show"? Do you know the reason the Israelite assembly was punished? For 490 years, they disobeyed his Sabbath rest. The Scriptures are incomplete without lining up events....the text... with reality and dates/the ancient Hebrew calendar.

(Lev. 25:2-4; 26:33-35) Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘When you come into the land which I shall give you, then the land shall have a sabbath to the LORD. 3‘Six years you shall sow your field, and six years you shall prune your vineyard and gather in its crop, 4but during the seventh year the land shall have a sabbath rest, a sabbath to the LORD; you shall not sow your field nor prune your vineyard… 33‘You, however, I will scatter among the nations and will draw out a sword after you, as your land becomes desolate and your cities become waste. 34‘Then the land will enjoy its sabbaths all the days of the desolation, while you are in your enemies’ land; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths. 35‘All the days of its desolation it will observe the rest which it did not observe on your sabbaths, while you were living on it.

2 Chron. 36:21 - To fulfill the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its sabbaths All the days of its desolation it kept sabbath until seventy years were complete.

nolidad · Jun 16, 2020

mkgal1 said:
"Side show"? Do you know the reason the Israelite assembly was punished? For 490 years, they disobeyed his Sabbath rest. The Scriptures are incomplete without lining up events....the text... with reality and dates/the Hebrew calendar.

(Lev. 25:2-4; 26:33-35) Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘When you come into the land which I shall give you, then the land shall have a sabbath to the LORD. 3‘Six years you shall sow your field, and six years you shall prune your vineyard and gather in its crop, 4but during the seventh year the land shall have a sabbath rest, a sabbath to the LORD; you shall not sow your field nor prune your vineyard… 33‘You, however, I will scatter among the nations and will draw out a sword after you, as your land becomes desolate and your cities become waste. 34‘Then the land will enjoy its sabbaths all the days of the desolation, while you are in your enemies’ land; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths. 35‘All the days of its desolation it will observe the rest which it did not observe on your sabbaths, while you were living on it.

2 Chron. 36:21 - To fulfill the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its sabbaths All the days of its desolation it kept sabbath until seventy years were complete.

Correct. The 70 year Babylonian Captivity was to take Israel captive one year for every SABBATH YEAR THEY DID NOT KEEP!

As long as one does not confuse the 70 7's found in Daniel with the 490 years (or 70 Sabbath years) Israel did not keep for the land!

Douggg · Jun 16, 2020

mkgal1 said:
"Side show"? Do you know the reason the Israelite assembly was punished? For 490 years, they disobeyed his Sabbath rest. The Scriptures are incomplete without lining up events....the text... with reality and dates/the Hebrew calendar.

You are not using the Hebrew calendar, but the Gregorian calendar. Neither of which are necessary to know that the 70th week is still unfulfilled.

Hebrew calendar year for example 5780 - 5781.

Jesus is returning to end the 70 weeks.

mkgal1 · Jun 16, 2020

Douggg said:
What matters is the arrival of the messiah in Jerusalem and him being cutoff. It is the passover week events celebrated by Christians as Psalms Sunday and Easter Sunday. The 70th week is still unfulfilled.

In what way does His arrival in Jerusalem matter (in your opinion)?

Daniel says: 7To You, O Lord, belongs righteousness, but this day we are covered with shame—the men of Judah, the people of Jerusalem, and all Israel near and far, in all the countries to which You have driven us because of our unfaithfulness to You.

Isaiah 61 says: The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is upon me, for the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to comfort the brokenhearted and to proclaim that captives will be released and prisoners will be freed.

Jesus began His ministry with this:
Luke 4:1 - 1Then Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,a 2where for forty days He was tempted by the devil.

Jesus Begins His Ministry
(Isaiah 9:1-7; Matthew 4:12-17; Mark 1:14-15)

14Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and the news about Him spread throughout the surrounding region.

Luke 4:18 - The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, for He has anointed me to bring Good News to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim that captives will be released, that the blind will see, that the oppressed will be set free,

mkgal1 · Jun 16, 2020

Douggg said:
You are not using the Hebrew calendar, but the Gregorian calendar. Neither of which are necessary to know that the 70th week is still unfulfilled.

Hebrew calendar year for example 5780 - 5781.

Jesus is returning to end the 70 weeks.

I'm going by the ancient Hebrew sabbatical calendar converted to our Gregorian calendar (@Christian Gedge can offer more on that). Your linked calendar appears to be a modern Jewish calendar.

mkgal1 · Jun 16, 2020

Douggg said:
When Jesus was baptized by John the baptist in the wilderness is not an event prophesied in Daniel 9. Jesus was anointed by the woman before entering Jerusalem on Psalms Sunday

In 27 AD....Jesus was 30 years old. That was the age that men of ancient Judaism who were students of the Scriptures could begin teaching with authority.

That is when this event occurred:

Matthew 3:16-17
And immediately, having been baptized, Jesus went up from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and alighting upon Him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased!”

Then this:
Jesus Begins His Ministry
(Isaiah 9:1-7; Matthew 4:12-17; Mark 1:14-15)

14Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and the news about Him spread throughout the surrounding region.

Acts 10:38
...how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how He went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with Him.

Do Two Jerusalems kill the Premill doctrine?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Similar threads