LDS Could the Mormon god have been a sinner?

He is the way · Jun 15, 2020

BigDaddy4 said:
But you have not and will not "keep the commandments". You are a sinner, just like the rest of us. Therefore, you are bearing false witness by saying that you are keeping the commandments.

Actually you are only supposing that I am not keeping the commandments and therefore supposing that I am bearing false witness. Keeping the commandments is not grievous. Nor are they impossible to keep:

(New Testament | 1 John 5:3)

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

BigDaddy4 · Jun 15, 2020

He is the way said:
Actually you are only supposing that I am not keeping the commandments and therefore supposing that I am bearing false witness. Keeping the commandments is not grievous. Nor are they impossible to keep:

(New Testament | 1 John 5:3)

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

No, you've actually admitted it in previous threads that you have not and/or cannot keep the commandments perfectly. You are absolutely lying if you say you have always kept the commandments.

Only 1 person who ever lived on this earth has kept the commandments. His name is Jesus.

Jamesone5 · Jun 15, 2020

He is the way said:
Who do you believe put all things under Jesus Christ? Who do you believe the Son will be subject to?

So how is Christ only a separate Lord when this verse says?

Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!

And you fellow Mormon says Jesus is the God of the OT--cannot Mormons "corral" their two Gods or Lords or Whoever?

He is the way · Jun 15, 2020

BigDaddy4 said:
No, you've actually admitted it in previous threads that you have not and/or cannot keep the commandments perfectly. You are absolutely lying if you say you have always kept the commandments.

Only 1 person who ever lived on this earth has kept the commandments. His name is Jesus.

Yes I said that I HAD been a sinner, not that I am now a sinner or that I could NOT keep the commandments. I have not always kept the commandments, but I am doing so now. That is what Christ expects of us.

He is the way · Jun 15, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
So how is Christ only a separate Lord when this verse says?

Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!

And you fellow Mormon says Jesus is the God of the OT--cannot Mormons "corral" their two Gods or Lords or Whoever?

There is one Lord and He is Jesus Christ the covenanted God of Israel:

(Old Testament | Exodus 6:5 - 7)

5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.
6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:
7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

BigDaddy4 · Jun 15, 2020

He is the way said:
Yes I said that I HAD been a sinner, not that I am now a sinner or that I could NOT keep the commandments. I have not always kept the commandments, but I am doing so now. That is what Christ expects of us.

Are you really trying to say that you are sin free and do not sin anymore?

He is the way · Jun 15, 2020

BigDaddy4 said:
Are you really trying to say that you are sin free and do not sin anymore?

Yes, and it is possible to be sin free and no longer sin:

(New Testament | Mark 10:17 - 22)

17 ¶ And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

(New Testament | Romans 6:6)

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Jamesone5 · Jun 15, 2020

He is the way said:
There is one Lord and He is Jesus Christ the covenanted God of Israel:

(Old Testament | Exodus 6:5 - 7)

5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.
6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:
7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

And your answer in right here:

7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

where oh where is your other God?

He is the way · Jun 15, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
And your answer in right here:

7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

where oh where is your other God?

Don't you believe in God the Father? Who is the Father of Jesus Christ?

(New Testament | Matthew 3:16 - 17)

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

All three were there when Jesus was baptized. That being said they were NOT all together after the resurrection:

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

BigDaddy4 · Jun 15, 2020

He is the way said:
Yes, and it is possible to be sin free and no longer sin:

(New Testament | Mark 10:17 - 22)

17 ¶ And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

(New Testament | Romans 6:6)

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Perhaps your lds Bible does not have 1 John 1:8-10
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Lying for your god is not a good look for you. And it violates one of your Articles of Faith.

Peter1000 · Jun 15, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
And your answer in right here:
7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

where oh where is your other God?

Where would you think God is? He was in heaven. God the Father has turned over the creation and the administration to his Son/Jehovah/Jesus. So Jesus is the God speaking to Moses or the God of the OT. It is not a mystery.

When Jesus, the God of the OT came to earth and took on flesh, where do you think God his Father was? Same place, in heaven.

Remember the Lords prayer, spoken by Jesus. Oh God, who art in heaven......... Jesus on earth, his God in heaven.

Truly this is not mysterious.

drstevej · Jun 15, 2020

It is mysterious that Heavenly Mother is not mentioned. Makes reason starre.

Yet your church sings...

When I leave this frail existence,
When I lay this mortal by,
Father, Mother, may I meet you
In your royal courts on high?

He is the way · Jun 15, 2020

BigDaddy4 said:
Perhaps your lds Bible does not have 1 John 1:8-10
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Lying for your god is not a good look for you. And it violates one of your Articles of Faith.

Are you claiming that a person can NOT stop sinning? That is like telling a smoker it is impossible to quit smoking. Paul wrote this:

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 2)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Jesus Said this:

(New Testament | John 5:14)

14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
The Bible also states:

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:20 - 22)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

It is not necessary to continue in sin.

drstevej · Jun 15, 2020

^^^ Have you quit sinning? If NO, why not???

BigDaddy4 · Jun 15, 2020

He is the way said:
Are you claiming that a person can NOT stop sinning? That is like telling a smoker it is impossible to quit smoking. Paul wrote this:

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 2)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Jesus Said this:

(New Testament | John 5:14)

14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
The Bible also states:

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:20 - 22)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

It is not necessary to continue in sin.

Yes, I am saying precisely that. You are being foolish if you think you can stop sinning. Pride is a sin you know...

He is the way · Jun 15, 2020

BigDaddy4 said:
Yes, I am saying precisely that. You are being foolish if you think you can stop sinning. Pride is a sin you know...

Anyone can stop sinning if they truly LOVE Jesus Christ:

(New Testament | 1 John 5:1 - 4)

1 WHOSOEVER believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Jamesone5 · Jun 16, 2020

Peter1000 said:
Where would you think God is? He was in heaven. God the Father has turned over the creation and the administration to his Son/Jehovah/Jesus. So Jesus is the God speaking to Moses or the God of the OT. It is not a mystery.

When Jesus, the God of the OT came to earth and took on flesh, where do you think God his Father was? Same place, in heaven.

Remember the Lords prayer, spoken by Jesus. Oh God, who art in heaven......... Jesus on earth, his God in heaven.

Truly this is not mysterious.

I just have to laugh at what you are saying here.
First of all---did your God the Father take a long vacation when He turned over the creation and administration to Christ who is your mythical other God of the OT? Administration?---like what your false prophet does as President of your Church?

Remember the Lords prayer, spoken by Jesus. Oh God, who art in heaven......... Jesus on earth, his God in heaven.---Peter1000

And you do not even quote the first part of Lord's Prayer right. It says--- Our Father, Who [Which] art in heaven-----

He was teaching His Disciples and us how to pray, by the way,.
You do not even pick up on that aspect.

Save your petty arguments for the occasional unwary potential convert to your Church.

Jamesone5 · Jun 16, 2020

He is the way said:
Anyone can stop sinning if they truly LOVE Jesus Christ:

(New Testament | 1 John 5:1 - 4)

1 WHOSOEVER believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

None of this matters if you only have hope [in yourselves] to be able to endure,

Jamesone5 · Jun 16, 2020

He is the way said:
Don't you believe in God the Father? Who is the Father of Jesus Christ?

(New Testament | Matthew 3:16 - 17)

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

All three were there when Jesus was baptized. That being said they were NOT all together after the resurrection:

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

You still have not justified or even identified your other God or Lord when once again the verse says this.

7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

or

Matthew 4:10
Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’

Seems like Mormons are trying to juggle their two Gods and always dropping out one of them.

He is the way · Jun 16, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
None of this matters if you only have hope [in yourselves] to be able to endure,

(New Testament | 1 Thessalonians 5:8)

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

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