Aliens of Israel

For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, one by the handmaid, and one by the freewoman. Howbeit the son by the handmaid is born after the flesh; but the son by the freewoman is born through promise. Which things contain an allegory: for these women are two covenants; one from mount Sinai, bearing children unto bondage, which is Hagar. Now this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia and answereth to the Jerusalem that now is: for she is in bondage with her children. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
(Galatians 4:22-26, ASV)

(the reason this is relevant is because according to this source the name Sarah shares a common root with the name Israel)

HARK! said:

You're guessing.

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Never.
17 Therefore, if anyone in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away;
behold, all things have become new.
1 Corinthians 10:17. For we being many are one bread, and one body:
for we are all partakers of that one bread.
Exactly what clarification did you think you were making? We can only guess.

HARK! said:

Who do you suppose is the seed?

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Galatians 3:
15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant,
yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,”
as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later,
cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ,
that it should make the promise of no effect.
18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise;
but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Romans 9:
6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of YHWH;
but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

Romans 11:
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in,
for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted
contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these,
who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

HARK! said:

Here we go again.

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So are you guessing that he is Christ here? or anyone In Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:16. Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh.
Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.
Christ does not refer to one person. Christ is One Spirit. One Body, with Jesus the head. His body, the church is all of that One Spirit, which is Christ, the seed of Abraham. Anyone In Christ is of that One Spirit. You aren't really making a point by simply highlighting 'he'. Could you elaborate?

HARK! said:

It would seem to be so.

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That One Spirit.
John 17:
22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in One, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

HARK! said:

"He" is singular. He is not a nation. Nations are feminine. The individual who is in Messiah is a new creation.

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Nice grammar. So if you would go back to the first post of mine, which you glibly responded with
"you're guessing", and see if there is any mention of a nation. You are making assumptions and trying to refute your own assumptions. Work on your own comprehension before you accuse someone else of guesswork.

HARK! said:

If you are not addressing the topic of the thread; then how does this ambiguous statement relate to the topic of this thread?

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I did not make an ambiguous statement. You cut and pasted ambiguity.
I quoted Paul from:
Galatians 6:12-16.
2 Corinthians 5:16-19.
Galatians 3:15-18.
Romans 9-11.
And several others that all relate to what you quote in the OP
from Ephesians:

(CLV) Eph 2:12
that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise, and covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.
Alienated from promise, and covenants, with no expectation, without Elohim? This is terrible!
(CLV) Eph 2:13
Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ.

Become near to what?
Yahshua was commissioned only for Israel.


In Ephesians 2, Paul is speaking by way of the earthly, to reflect on
The Kingdom of Heaven, which is not a nation.
Philippians 3:20. For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Heavenly Israel is not a nation, it is a congregation of people.
Hebrews 12:22-
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,
to an innumerable company of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven,
to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant…

Let's look at your verses with more context in Ephesians 2:
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ
(by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus...

19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,
21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord,
22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.


Revelation 7:9 & 10. After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

Psalm 87:5 & 6. And of Zion it will be said, This and that one were born in her;
And the Most High Himself shall establish her.
The Lord will record, When He registers the peoples:
This one was born there. Selah.

Galatians 4:26, 27. but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

HARK! said:

You're guessing.

1. na·tion
   /ˈnāSH(ə)n/
   noun
   • 1. a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory: "the world's leading industrialized nations"
   Powered by Oxford Dictionaries

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I am sure that you are correct from an earthly perspective. I am not guessing. I am receiving from above. I don't need Oxford Dictionaries, or any other worldly source. Messiah is from above.
John 3:31. He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all.
John 8:23. And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
1 Corinthians 2:14. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

HARK! said:

You're guessing.

1. na·tion
   /ˈnāSH(ə)n/
   noun
   • 1. a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory: "the world's leading industrialized nations"
   Powered by Oxford Dictionaries

Click to expand...

Heavenly Israel is not a nation, it is a congregation of people.
Hebrews 12:22-
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,
to an innumerable company of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven,
to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant…

Minister Monardo said:

Heavenly Israel is not a nation, it is a congregation of people.
Hebrews 12:22-
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,
to an innumerable company of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven,
to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant…

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This is a similar misunderstanding to that of equating the church of God with some religious organization headquartered on this earth.

HARK! said:

We are grafted in; if we don't reject the natural tree.

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that's the condition of being grafted in.

DamianWarS said:

that's the condition of being grafted in.

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Romans 11:
30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.

Matthew 5:7. Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy.

Mercy is for the merciful, especially those who have shown mercy to natural Israel.

Minister Monardo said:

Heavenly Israel is not a nation, it is a congregation of people.

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By whose standards?

DamianWarS said:

By whose standards?

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The Word of God.
Hebrews 12:22-
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,
to an innumerable company of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven,
to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant…

Ephesians 2:
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ
(by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus...

19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,
21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord,
22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.


Revelation 7:9 & 10. After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

Psalm 87:5 & 6. And of Zion it will be said, This and that one were born in her;
And the Most High Himself shall establish her.
The Lord will record, When He registers the peoples:
This one was born there. Selah.

Galatians 4:26, 27. but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

HARK! said:

Who do you suppose is the seed?

Click to expand...

Galatians 3:29...If you belong to Christ then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the Promise...

One seed (Christ) =produced many descendants