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BobRyan

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So who are the three persons? Any of them called angel of the Lord?

according to this post "yes"

a more "generic" form this this post


would be
Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary - author Bob McCabe


Example 1

Ex 3:1-2 Now Moses was pasturing the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian; and he led the flock to the west side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 The angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed.

"The first passage is found in Exodus 3:1–14. While tending the flock of his father-in-law at Horeb, Moses saw that a burning bush was not being consumed by the fire. As he approached the bush, v. 2 clearly states that the angel of the LORD appeared to him in the flames of the bush. It is stated in v. 4 that the LORD spoke to him from within the bush. In v. 6 the Being in the bush further identifies that He was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. As the conversation continues between these two, the Being in the bush announces His name, “I AM WHO I AM” (v. 14). Thus, this passage indicates that the angel of the LORD mentioned in v. 2 is clearly identified by Himself and accepted by Moses as the infinite God.

Example 2

Zechariah 3:1–10... the antecedent of “he” is the interpreting angel (he is referred to in 1:9, 14, 19; 2:3; 4:1, 3, 5; etc.; in light of 1:9 the interpreting angel was apparently present to explain some of the details of these visions to Zechariah), the antecedent of “me” is Zechariah, the angel of the LORD, and Satan. In this verse Joshua is described as standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan is pictured as standing at the right hand of the angel of the LORD to resist him. With this introduction to the vision we should note that the angel of the LORD is the focal point around which the following context revolves.

"The first half of v. 2 reads like this: “The LORD said to Satan, ‘The LORD rebuke you, Satan!’” In light of the participants mentioned in v. 1, we could read this verse in this fashion: “And the LORD, that is the angel of the LORD, said unto Satan, ‘The LORD rebuke you, Satan.’” Therefore, v. 2 identifies the angel of the LORD as the LORD and indicates that there is a distinction between the angel of the LORD and the LORD. This identification is further substantiated in v. 4. If we follow the context of vv. 2–4 carefully, we should notice that it is the angel of the LORD who forgives sin in v. 4. Since God is the only one who forgives sin, it is readily apparent that the angel of the LORD is God. Consequently, this passage provides solid support for both the deity of the angel of the LORD and his distinctiveness from the LORD.

Who is both deity and yet a distinct person from the LORD? Since no one has ever seen God the Father (John 1:18; 1 Tim 6:16) and since the Holy Spirit never takes on bodily form, this suggests that the supernatural Being to which this expression refers is the second member of the Trinity (also compare Exod 3:14 with John 8:58). Therefore, the angel of the LORD was a temporary manifestation of the LORD Jesus Christ in a preincarnate form
"
=========================end quote


As for the scholarship agreeing with Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary - author Bob McCabe

Some examples:

Friday at 10:53 PM #19

...


Adam Clarke Commentary

Exodus 3 Verse 2

The angel of the Lord - Not a created angel certainly; for he is called יהוה Jehovah, Exodus 3:4, etc., and has the most expressive attributes of the Godhead applied to him, Exodus 3:14, etc. Yet he is an angel, מלאך malach, a messenger, in whom was the name of God, Exodus 23:21; and in whom dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, Colossians 2:9; and who, in all these primitive times, was the Messenger of the covenant, Malachi 3:1. And who was this but Jesus, the Leader, Redeemer, and Savior of mankind? See Clarke's note on Genesis 16:7.

=================


James Burton Coffman
Ex 3 Verse 2-3

"And the angel of Jehovah appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. And Moses said, I will turn aside now, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt."

"The angel of Jehovah ..." As the context proves, "The Angel of Jehovah is not a created angel but Jehovah himself in his act of self-revelation."[10] This is merely another name for God, of which there are many in the Bible. Although this verse does not indicate it, there is reason to believe that the Angel of Jehovah should be identified with our Lord Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Godhead; he is also called the Angel of the Covenant.[11]


=================================
Jamieson Fausset Brown

Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible

Verse 2-3


the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire — It is common in Scripture to represent the elements and operations of nature, as winds, fires, earthquakes, pestilence, everything enlisted in executing the divine will, as the “angels” or messengers of God. But in such cases God Himself is considered as really, though invisibly, present. Here the preternatural fire may be primarily meant by the expression “angel of the Lord”; but it is clear that under this symbol, the Divine Being was present, whose name is given (Exodus 3:4, Exodus 3:6), and elsewhere called the angel of the covenant, Jehovah-Jesus.


=========================================

So then two opinions --

here is one -


Albert Barnes Commentary

Exodus 3
Ex 3:1-2 Now Moses was pasturing the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian; and he led the flock to the west side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 The angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed.

vs 2
What Moses saw was the flame of fire in the bush; what he recognized therein was an intimation of the presence of God, who maketh a flame of fire His angel. Compare Psalm 104:4. The words which Moses heard were those of God Himself, as all ancient and most modern divines have held, manifested in the Person of the Son

=========== and here is another list of those who agree

Albert Barnes
James Burton Coffman
Adam Clarke Commentary
Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary Bob McCabe

R.C.Sproul
The Angel of the LORD
Verse 7 tells us “the angel of the Lord” found Hagar at the spring. This angel is no mere messenger of God, even though royal messengers in those days were treated with the same respect as the sender. When the angel of the Lord appears elsewhere in Scripture, people fall down in worship (see Judg. 6:22–24). After seeing the angel, Hagar addresses him as God (Gen. 16:13). This angel appeared mainly during the period recounted in Genesis and Judges, and, while the New Testament does not explicitly identify the angel with the Son of God, many in church history have identified this messenger as the pre-incarnate Christ.

so then for those who read the quote... that's Exodus 3 and Zechariah 3

How about according to the Bible since the three persons who mentioned are from the Bible?

??
 
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BobRyan

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SDA believes in soul sleep, Moses and Enoch at the Transfiguration is a problem for them.

How so?

The Bible says Enoch was translated without dying
And Jude opens the door to the "Assumption of Moses" in its quote of it.
 
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BobRyan

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1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:16 Good News Translation (GNT)
16 There will be the shout of command, the archangel's voice, the sound of God's trumpet, and the Lord himself will come down from heaven. Those who have died believing in Christ will rise to life first;

1 Thess 4 (All the parts left out of that post above)
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those WHO are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those WHO have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
 
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mmksparbud

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SDA believes in soul sleep, Moses and Enoch at the Transfiguration is a problem for them.
The text does not say they were resurrected to appear there. Isa 14 is about the king of babylon and the dead greet him after he died in the underworld.

LOL!!! Moses and Enoch are no problem at all!!! Enoch was translated and Moses was resurrected by Michael---that was the contention in Jude just as BobRyan said.
I have no idea what you are talking about as far as Isa 14 goes.
 
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mmksparbud

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1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

By your logic friend, Jesus is trump of God. smile

1 Thessalonians 4:16 Good News Translation (GNT)
16 There will be the shout of command, the archangel's voice, the sound of God's trumpet, and the Lord himself will come down from heaven. Those who have died believing in Christ will rise to life first;

"With a shout (en keleusmati). Note this so-called instrumental use of en. Old word, here only in N.T., from keleuw, to order, command (military command). Christ will come as Conqueror. With the voice of the archangel (en pwnh arcaggelou). Further explanation of keleusmati (command). The only archangel mentioned in N.T. is Michael in Jude 1:9 . But note absence of article with both pwnh and arcaggelou. The reference may be thus indefinite. With the trump of God (en salpiggi qeou). Trumpet. See same figure in 1 Corinthians 15:52 . The dead in Christ shall rise first (oi nekroi en Cristwi anasthsontai prwton). First here refers plainly to the fact that, so far from the dead in Christ having no share in the Parousia, they will rise before those still alive are changed."
1 Thessalonians 4:16 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

Matthew 25:31-46 ESV
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left

Matthew 16:27 ESV
For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

Matthew 24:30-31 ESV
Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 11:15 ESV
Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”

The voice of the archangel--and?? Not the voice like the archangel. There is a difference between a trumpet and the voice of the archangel.
 
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Major1

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Again---no angel, no matter how lofty they are placed in heaven, can not be worshipped by man. Each time that a man has shown worship to any mere angel, the angel has reprimanded them and said to stand up and not do it. Except in the cases that have been mentioned. Those beings have not only accepted the worship, but said that the ground that the man was standing on was Holy ground. No angel can make anything Holy---God alone does that. Michael is not an angel---archangel is head of angels, a title, as is Captain of the Host---head of the angelic host---Jesus---the I Am (for that name is not in the OT except for Joshua --Jesus is Greek for Joshua)As for Daniel---you stopped reading way too soon.

Dan 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

We have no Prince save Jesus.

Jesus is NOT a prince! Jesus is the KING of glory and the Creator of ALL things.

Michael is a created being, created by The God-Man, The Lord Jesus Christ!
 
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Major1

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Exactly--No angel can be worshipped by man--the angel will always put a stop to it. The angel of the Lord, was worshipped, and accepted it.

Which then makes that being the pre-incarnate Christ and not Michael an angle.
 
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Major1

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The voice of the archangel--and?? Not the voice like the archangel. There is a difference between a trumpet and the voice of the archangel.

However, that Scripture does not say that an Angel/Michael is involved in the Rapture, now does it????

You see....."your want to" has taken over facts.

It is HIS VOICE, JESUS's that will be like the voice of an archangel.

Be like and Being are to different things. It is the quality of His voice, the majesty and authority of it that is in view.
 
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Major1

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"Some SDA"? I assume you have a list? I've never used it. Don't know any SDA who do. I personally prefer the KJV, but I read, the Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic versions also---you can find all Translations on the internet.

Now what does it matter if there are a million translations when they are changed and twisted to make them sat what you want them to say.

Jesus is Jesus the Christ.

Michael is an angle created by Jesus Christ.

It is not rocket science.
 
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mmksparbud

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Jesus is NOT a prince! Jesus is the KING of glory and the Creator of ALL things.

Michael is a created being, created by The God-Man, The Lord Jesus Christ!

Which then makes that being the pre-incarnate Christ and not Michael an angle.
However, that Scripture does not say that an Angel/Michael is involved in the Rapture, now does it????

You see....."your want to" has taken over facts.

It is HIS VOICE, JESUS's that will be like the voice of an archangel.

Be like and Being are to different things. It is the quality of His voice, the majesty and authority of it that is in view.
Now what does it matter if there are a million translations when they are changed and twisted to make them sat what you want them to say.

Jesus is Jesus the Christ.

Michael is an angle created by Jesus Christ.

It is not rocket science.


It is all about the same thing here so I'd rather not deal with 4-5 different posts about the same thing.
Gabriel refers to Michael as "your Prince." Again, there is no Prince of the Jews save God, we have no Prince save Jesus----Jesus is, of course, not merely a Prince---He is also not a Lamb. Do you not accept Him as the sacrificial Lamb?? He is not angel, but you accept Him as the angel of the Lord. It is obviously a name, not a description of what He is anymore than a Lamb is what He is. You are totally inconsistent.
You accept the Angle of the Lord as Jesus---that clearly says an angel, not even archangel which is head of angels. So why is angel of the Lord Jesus and not archangel when the word angel is used for both and "arch" means one of higher authority?

1Th_4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


This says with the voice of the archangel---not like the archangel.
Nowhere in the bible is the word "Rapture" found.
Why are we carrying on about this?? I am not changing my mind, you are not changing your mind---I've said before, it's time you and I quite on this. I've stated my reasons for believing He is, you've stated your reason for saying He is not, we do not agree on those reasons.

There are over 200 names for Jesus---so why does it matter so much to you that Michael is another name for Him? This is not a salvation issue. There is only One JESUS, THE SON OF GOD, ONE WITH GOD, CREATOR OF ALL THINGS, SAVIOR OF THE WORLD. I've said everything I am going to say, I am merely repeating myself now and I will no longer answer posts about this from you nor will I address any more posts to you---OK?!
 
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pasifika

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according to this post "yes"



so then for those who read the quote... that's Exodus 3 and Zechariah 3



??
Oh yes, sorry I didn’t read your other post...

So, can an angel called the “Lord” or that title is only given to either God Father or Son?
 
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Major1

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1 Thess 4 (All the parts left out of that post above)
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those WHO are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those WHO have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

And you just posted the facts of the soon coming RAPTURE!
 
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Major1

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Oh yes, sorry I didn’t read your other post...

So, can an angel called the “Lord” or that title is only given to either God Father or Son?

Correct. It is called a "Theopony" = a visible manifestation of deity.
 
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Major1

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It is all about the same thing here so I'd rather not deal with 4-5 different posts about the same thing.
Gabriel refers to Michael as "your Prince." Again, there is no Prince of the Jews save God, we have no Prince save Jesus----Jesus is, of course, not merely a Prince---He is also not a Lamb. Do you not accept Him as the sacrificial Lamb?? He is not angel, but you accept Him as the angel of the Lord. It is obviously a name, not a description of what He is anymore than a Lamb is what He is. You are totally inconsistent.
You accept the Angle of the Lord as Jesus---that clearly says an angel, not even archangel which is head of angels. So why is angel of the Lord Jesus and not archangel when the word angel is used for both and "arch" means one of higher authority?

1Th_4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


This says with the voice of the archangel---not like the archangel.
Nowhere in the bible is the word "Rapture" found.
Why are we carrying on about this?? I am not changing my mind, you are not changing your mind---I've said before, it's time you and I quite on this. I've stated my reasons for believing He is, you've stated your reason for saying He is not, we do not agree on those reasons.

There are over 200 names for Jesus---so why does it matter so much to you that Michael is another name for Him? This is not a salvation issue. There is only One JESUS, THE SON OF GOD, ONE WITH GOD, CREATOR OF ALL THINGS, SAVIOR OF THE WORLD. I've said everything I am going to say, I am merely repeating myself now and I will no longer answer posts about this from you nor will I address any more posts to you---OK?!

You are correct. I look forward to no more posts from you.
 
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Major1

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LOL!!! Moses and Enoch are no problem at all!!! Enoch was translated and Moses was resurrected by Michael---that was the contention in Jude just as BobRyan said.
I have no idea what you are talking about as far as Isa 14 goes.


No, Moses and Elijah weren't resurrected so that Peter, James, and John could see them. We already know this because John 3:13 tells us that "no man hath ascended up to heaven".

Look at how Matthew describes the event:

And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. — Matthew 17:3

And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. — Matthew 17:9

Notice that they "appeared unto them", and that later Jesus refers to it as a "vision".

Visions appear throughout the Bible. They are not physical things, but something that happens in the minds of those experiencing them.

In Acts 10, Peter later had a vision of unclean animals being presented as food:

… he fell into a trance and saw … . Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean ….

Similarly, in the book of Revelation, John describes his vision of the Day of the Lord as being seen "in the spirit".

Visions are just that. They aren't real physical events.
Did God resurrect Moses?
 
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Daniel Marsh

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That's why Mordecai risked life in order not to? "Thou shalt not bow down to them nor worship them." Many bow down to images.

there are many valid examples,

Genesis 33:3 Jacob went ahead of them and bowed down to the ground seven times as he approached his brother.

Genesis 42:6Joseph, as governor of the land of Egypt, was selling grain to people from all over the world. So Joseph's brothers came and bowed down before him with their faces to the ground.

Genesis 43:26When Joseph got home, they took the gifts into the house to him and bowed down to the ground before him.

Exodus 11:8Moses concluded by saying, “All your officials will come to me and bow down before me, and they will beg me to take all my people and go away. After that, I will leave.” Then in great anger Moses left the king.

Exodus 18:7so Moses went out to meet him, bowed before him, and kissed him. They asked about each other's health and then went into Moses' tent.

Exodus 23:24Do not bow down to their gods or worship them, and do not adopt their religious practices. Destroy their gods and break down their sacred stone pillars.

Luke 24:5Full of fear, the women bowed down to the ground, as the men said to them, “Why are you looking among the dead for one who is alive?

Acts 10:25As Peter was about to go in, Cornelius met him, fell at his feet, and bowed down before him.

Revelation 3:9Listen! As for that group that belongs to Satan, those liars who claim that they are Jews but are not, I will make them come and bow down at your feet. They will all know that I love you.

Oriental Salutation by Kssing or Bowing - Images of Ancient Salutation Customs (Bible Customs at Bible History Online)
 
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BobRyan

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Oh yes, sorry I didn’t read your other post...

So, can an angel called the “Lord” or that title is only given to either God Father or Son?

When you look at the text you will see that "Lord" is all upper case 'LORD' in translations like NASB - they do that to tell you that the real world being translated is "YHWH" - the highest form of the name of God in the OT.
 
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