The fifth seal great tribulation martyrs

Douggg · Jun 14, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Why don't you just tell me the answer you want to hear, if you do not like what John, and James said.

If you can interpret the Old Testament while ignoring the words of one of Jesus closest disciples, the one that was trusted to care for the Lord's mother, and by ignoring what the half brother of Jesus said, then we would like to hear your viewpoint.
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I want to hear your answer. I gave you a suggestion for help.

You have been posting that video by Kelly Varner, seems like forever here at this forum. What does he have to say....what country and what people are them in Ezekiel 38-39, who God defends, who God calls "my people" ?

BABerean2 · Jun 14, 2020

Douggg said:
I want to hear your answer. I gave you a suggestion for help.

You have been posting that video by Kelly Varner, seems like forever here at this forum. What does he have to say....what country and what people are them in Ezekiel 38-39, who God defends, who God calls "my people" ?

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. (from Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

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Douggg · Jun 14, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. (from Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

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Gog's army in Ezekiel 38-39 will be attacking a country and a people who God calls "my people". What is that country and who are the people that God is calling my people?''

You are saying there are not two people's of God. So it seems like you have a major problem... because it is certainly not the church.

keras · Jun 14, 2020

Douggg said:
Gog's army in Ezekiel 38-39 will be attacking a country and a people who God calls "my people". What is that country and who are the people that God is calling my people?''

You are saying there are not two people's of God. So it seems like you have a major problem... because it is certainly not the church.

THIS is your big mistake!
The people in all of the holy Land will not and cannot be the present inhabitants.
God has no intention of saving those apostate and atheistic people, who reject Jesus. Luke 19:27, Luke 20:16, Hebrews 10:27

They will be only the righteous people of God. Who may or may not be of the Church, God knows who they are and only those whom the Lord has redeemed by their faith in Him, will go there. Isaiah 35:8-10

Douggg · Jun 14, 2020

keras said:
THIS is your big mistake!
The people in all of the holy Land will not and cannot be the present inhabitants.
God has no intention of saving those apostate and atheistic people, who reject Jesus. Luke 19:27, Luke 20:16, Hebrews 10:27

Well, you are 100% wrong. Are you one of those who believe that only certain individuals are predestined to be saved, that others have no free will in the matter?

God has already preserved the Jews for 2000 years, while Israel was in exile, and in their state of unbelief in Jesus and the gospel message, and will continue - until the middle part of the 7 years when they turn to Jesus.

keras · Jun 15, 2020

Douggg said:
Well, you are 100% wrong. Are you one of those who believe that only certain individuals are predestined to be saved, that others have no free will in the matter?

Love to say your opinions, don't you? I proved that the people in the holy Land when Gog attacks, are not who are there now.

As for predestination, that is another whole subject. Its enough to know that God knows who will accept Jesus and who won't. That's His foreknowledge.

Douggg said:
God has already preserved the Jews for 2000 years, while Israel was in exile

Actually He didn't.
The Jews were mostly killed 70 to 135 AD and the people who call themselves Jews today are a mixed racial bunch, with no proof of their descent from Judah.
They are in fact, Satan's counterfeit Israel; belonging to his synagogue, Rev 2:9.
Many prophesies, which you conveniently ignore; tell of their demise along with all their evil neighbors. Jeremiah 12:14. Isaiah 22:1-14, Amos 2:4-5

Douggg said:
until the middle part of the 7 years when they turn to Jesus.

Here is where you really show your bias and willingness to twist scripture to suit your false beliefs.
The few Jews who do turn to Jesus, Zechariah 12:9-14, will do so when Jesus Returns.

BABerean2 · Jun 15, 2020

Douggg said:
You are saying there are not two people's of God. So it seems like you have a major problem... because it is certainly not the church.

Based on John 10:16, and 1 John 2:22-23, and 2 John 1:7-11, and James 1:1-3, and Galatians 3:16-29, and Romans 11:1-5, and Peters words "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and multiple other passages, God does not have a relationship with people who deny His Son. It is God who says there are not Two Peoples of God. How could it be any clearer?

Your attempts to separate faithful Israel and the Church fall apart in the passages above. On the Day of Pentecost about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34. The Gentiles were grafted in among them several years later. The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church", as some today imply in an effort to make the Two Peoples of God doctrine work.

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

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Douggg · Jun 15, 2020

keras said:
Here is where you really show your bias and willingness to twist scripture to suit your false beliefs.
The few Jews who do turn to Jesus, Zechariah 12:9-14, will do so when Jesus Returns.

You have it backwards. The Jews become believers in Jesus before Jesus returns. They will welcome him, saying blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. In Revelation 12:17 they keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus.

keras · Jun 16, 2020

Douggg said:
God defends Israel and the Jews who's land God gave them, and in the text of Ezekiel 39 God calls "my people".

Sorry for you, Douggg.
Your beliefs are just not supported by any scripture. Far from defending the so called 'Israel' of today, God wipes them out. Isaiah 22:14, Amos 2:4-5
My People; are those people from every nation and language; 1 Peter 2:9-10, Rev 5:9-10 Some are Jews, all are faithful Christians, born again in Jesus; now.

Douggg said:
You have it backwards. The Jews become believers in Jesus before Jesus returns. They will welcome him, saying blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. In Revelation 12:17 they keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus.

You flatout deny Zechariah 12:9-10 and Rev 12:17 plainly refers to Christians, who are already Christian when the AC conquers them.

I will no longer discuss Bible issues with you, as your intransigence and inability to understand plain Bible teachings, is so blatant and biased that we have no common ground.

Douggg · Jun 16, 2020

keras said:
My People; are those people from every nation and language; 1 Peter 2:9-10, Rev 5:9-10 Some are Jews, all are faithful Christians, born again in Jesus; now.

Then you have no basis for the parable of the fig tree.

Douggg · Jun 17, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Based on John 10:16, and 1 John 2:22-23, and 2 John 1:7-11, and James 1:1-3, and Galatians 3:16-29, and Romans 11:1-5, and Peters words "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and multiple other passages, God does not have a relationship with people who deny His Son. It is God who says there are not Two Peoples of God. How could it be any clearer?

Your attempts to separate faithful Israel and the Church fall apart in the passages above. On the Day of Pentecost about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34. The Gentiles were grafted in among them several years later. The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church", as some today imply in an effort to make the Two Peoples of God doctrine work.

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

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Based on Ezekiel 39:7, your position is wrong.

7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

Douggg · Jun 17, 2020

BABerean2 said:
It is God who says there are not Two Peoples of God.

What is the exact verse quoting God Himself as saying "there are not Two Peoples of God" ?

BABerean2 · Jun 17, 2020

Douggg said:
What is the exact verse quoting God Himself as saying "there are not Two Peoples of God" ?

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

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Douggg · Jun 17, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

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I don't read God saying the words "there are not Two Peoples of God" in that verse.

BABerean2 · Jun 17, 2020

Douggg said:
I don't read God saying the words "there are not Two Peoples of God" in that verse.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

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Douggg · Jun 17, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

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I don't read God saying the words "there are not Two Peoples of God" in those verses.

BABerean2 · Jun 17, 2020

Douggg said:
I don't read God saying the words "there are not Two Peoples of God" in those verses.

You also do not read Israel and the Church as two separate entities, in those passages...

Faithful Israel and the Church cannot be separated in those passages.

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keras · Jun 17, 2020

Douggg said:
Then you have no basis for the parable of the fig tree.

Your determination to have the Jews as still the people of God, counts against you.
In the 'fig tree' parable; obviously directed toward the Jews, they are cursed and they will never bear fruit.
Did you get that: the House of Judah will never bear fruit. Matthew 21:18-19
Jesus also said: the Kingdom is taken from you and is given to a people who do yield fruit. Matthew 21:43
Those people are every faithful Christian, the ones Jesus came to save of the House of Israel, the ten Northern tribes. The Apostles and Josephus knew who and where they were, they accepted the Gospel and were grafted back into the Olive Tree; that is Jesus.
This is the truth of the amazing Plan of God to redeem Israel.
WE Christians have the Kingdom, Luke 12:32, for now, it is within us, but soon to be literally fulfilled with Jesus as King over all.

Douggg · Jun 17, 2020

keras said:
Your determination to have the Jews as still the people of God, counts against you.
In the 'fig tree' parable; obviously directed toward the Jews, they are cursed and they will never bear fruit.

So you are claiming the church is the fig tree?

keras · Jun 17, 2020

Douggg said:
So you are claiming the church is the fig tree?

This is why it is so difficult to discuss issues with you. If there is a conclusion; sure as- you will jump to the wrong one.
Judah is the 'fig tree', the faithful Christians are the Israel of God. Galatians 6:14-16

The House of Judah lost its claim to be Israelite, when they separated from the House of Israel about 3000 years ago.
The Prophesies about Israel in these end times, are all to do with Gods faithful believers, who may or may not be actual descendants of Jacob.
Judah, the Jews have another, quite different prophesied destiny.

The fifth seal great tribulation martyrs

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Newbie

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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