I am Obsessed with Paul’s Gospel — Here’s Why!

Strong in Him · Jun 13, 2020

Guojing said:
Actually, all of us are stating our own interpretations and opinions here.

There is no need to be elevate yours into facts just to strengthen your arguments

Check out the commentaries if you don't believe me.
I've found 4 which say that Paul's apostleship was being questioned - those who wanted to discredit the Gospel were attacking Paul's right to preach the Gospel. That's what was happening at that time.
The things that Paul writes in his letter back this up. He says that he received the Gospel from God, not other men; he says that he didn't meet the other apostles til some time after he had started preaching - so was not passing on the Gospel 2nd hand - but then he stayed with them and they welcomed him, Galatians 2:9.

Guojing · Jun 13, 2020

Strong in Him said:
Check out the commentaries if you don't believe me.
I've found 4 which say that Paul's apostleship was being questioned - those who wanted to discredit the Gospel were attacking Paul's right to preach the Gospel. That's what was happening at that time.
The things that Paul writes in his letter back this up. He says that he received the Gospel from God, not other men; he says that he didn't meet the other apostles til some time after he had started preaching - so was not passing on the Gospel 2nd hand - but then he stayed with them and they welcomed him, Galatians 2:9.

We tend to read and remember commmentaries that agree with our own interpretations of scripture.

That does not magically make them facts.

JLB777 · Jun 13, 2020

Guojing said:
Romans 3:21 and 4:5 explained that you obey God, in this grace dispensation, by ceasing from all works and trusting In what Christ did for you at the cross.

When you do that, God sees you with the faith of Christ and that pleases him.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

JLB

Guojing · Jun 13, 2020

JLB777 said:
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

JLB

Hebrews to Revelations is doctrine after the grace dispensation, when the body of Christ will be raptured. After the rapture comes the Great Tribulation, where God will deal specifically with Israel, as spelt out in Romans 11:25-26.

That is the period of time where 1 John will apply. It will be where the gospel of the kingdom will be preached once again.

Israel will need to believe in Jesus and keep the commandments in order to be considered saved in the end, the chief commandment there is to reject the mark of the beast. (Revelation 14:9-13)

Strong in Him · Jun 13, 2020

Guojing said:
We tend to read and remember commmentaries that agree with our own interpretations of scripture.

That does not magically make them facts.

3 of these commentaries were written before I became a Christian - 2 of them before I was born.
People were reading, and teaching from, them long before I came along.

It's amazing that William Barclay and John Stott, to name but 2, knew what I would think before I was born and then - eminent scholars that they were - decided to write their commentaries to fit with my future interpretation.

It was very good of them.

Strong in Him · Jun 13, 2020

Guojing said:
That is the period of time where 1 John will apply. It will be where the gospel of the kingdom will be preached once again.

So if we confess our sins now, God WON'T forgive us, 1 John 1:9?
We don't yet have someone who speaks to the Father in our defence, 1 John 2:1?
God isn't love yet, 1 John 4:8 - he only will be at some point after the rapture?
The statement "this is how we know what love us; Jesus Christ died for us", isn't yet true?

There is no evidence for this, nor for your statement that "Hebrews to Revelation is doctrine after the grace dispensation".

Guojing · Jun 13, 2020

Strong in Him said:
So if we confess our sins now, God WON'T forgive us, 1 John 1:9?
We don't yet have someone who speaks to the Father in our defence, 1 John 2:1?
God isn't love yet, 1 John 4:8 - he only will be at some point after the rapture?
The statement "this is how we know what love us; Jesus Christ died for us", isn't yet true?

There is no evidence for this, nor for your statement that "Hebrews to Revelation is doctrine after the grace dispensation".

All Scripture is written FOR our learning, as long as you understand that not all are directed to us.

John wrote his letters to Israel under the agreement made in Galatians 2:9

"And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision."

To me, its amazing that the order of the letters placed in the NT, after Romans to Philemon, follows the exact same sequence as this verse.

James, 1 2 Peter, 1 2 3 John.

If you think of Paul writing to the Body of Christ, that is Romans to Philemon. After the rapture, the BOC will be in heaven so what is the doctrine that is relevant then? It will be Hebrews to Revelations, the books placed after Philemon.

The Holy Spirit placed the books in that order. You won't agree with this of course, but as I said, our views won't converge here so we can agree to disagree.

Strong in Him · Jun 14, 2020

Guojing said:
All Scripture is written FOR our learning, as long as you understand that not all are directed to us.

John wrote his letters to Israel under the agreement made in Galatians 2:9

"And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision."

To me, its amazing that the order of the letters placed in the NT, after Romans to Philemon, follows the exact same sequence as this verse.

James, 1 2 Peter, 1 2 3 John.

If you think of Paul writing to the Body of Christ, that is Romans to Philemon. After the rapture, the BOC will be in heaven so what is the doctrine that is relevant then? It will be Hebrews to Revelations, the books placed after Philemon.

The Holy Spirit placed the books in that order. You won't agree with this of course, but as I said, our views won't converge here so we can agree to disagree.

I don't understand what you're talking about.

All I wanted to know was: you wrote "this is the period of time when 1 John will apply"; that implies that you don't think that 1 John applies now.
So what about verses that talk about the cross, God's forgiveness and that God is love - do we have to wait for some time in the future when these will apply? And why are these books in our Bible at all if they don't apply now? Just think of the millions of Christians who have read 1 John 1:9 and been comforted by it, not knowing that it only applied in some future time.

I doubt any Christian would agree with that.

Guojing · Jun 14, 2020

Strong in Him said:
I don't understand what you're talking about.

All I wanted to know was: you wrote "this is the period of time when 1 John will apply"; that implies that you don't think that 1 John applies now.
So what about verses that talk about the cross, God's forgiveness and that God is love - do we have to wait for some time in the future when these will apply? And why are these books in our Bible at all if they don't apply now? Just think of the millions of Christians who have read 1 John 1:9 and been comforted by it, not knowing that it only applied in some future time.

I doubt any Christian would agree with that.

Ever wonder why do people have no issues with any OT books when it comes to applying this?

Just because James Peter and John letters are located in the NT, even though they are written to Israel and the Jews, we in the body of Christ have so much problems in regarding them like how we regard the OT books?

Strong in Him · Jun 14, 2020

Guojing said:
Ever wonder why do people have no issues with any OT books when it comes to applying this?

The OT is relevant to us - we read the Psalms, we learn about how the prophets foretold Christ's coming, we learn lessons from Moses, David and the prophets about the nature of God, about trusting God and so on.
We can also learn how Christ fulfilled the law, the prophets and the feasts. Anyone who says that the OT is not relevant to us is misguided, and is missing out on much.

Guojing said:
Just because James Peter and John letters are located in the NT, even though they are written to Israel and the Jews,

They wrote to Christians - those who had received Jesus, believed the Christian faith and were followers of the Way - not Jews.

Guojing said:
we in the body of Christ have so much problems in regarding them like how we regard the OT books?

So that's a "yes", then?
You don't believe that John's letters apply to us today? You don't believe that his statement that God IS love is for us but will only begin to apply at, or after "the rapture"?
Does that also include the book of Hebrews; you said in an earlier statement, "this is when the books of Hebrews - Revelation will begin to apply"?

If it does, and you don't believe the book of Hebrews applies to us now, why did you quote from it when you were defining what faith is?

JLB777 · Jun 14, 2020

Guojing said:
After the rapture comes the Great Tribulation,

The Resurrection and Rapture happen at His Coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

JLB

JLB777 · Jun 14, 2020

Guojing said:
Hebrews to Revelations is doctrine after the grace dispensation

Where do you find the term “grace dispensation”?

I thought grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1:17

JLB

Guojing · Jun 14, 2020

Strong in Him said:
The OT is relevant to us - we read the Psalms, we learn about how the prophets foretold Christ's coming, we learn lessons from Moses, David and the prophets about the nature of God, about trusting God and so on.
We can also learn how Christ fulfilled the law, the prophets and the feasts. Anyone who says that the OT is not relevant to us is misguided, and is missing out on much.

They wrote to Christians - those who had received Jesus, believed the Christian faith and were followers of the Way - not Jews.

So that's a "yes", then?
You don't believe that John's letters apply to us today? You don't believe that his statement that God IS love is for us but will only begin to apply at, or after "the rapture"?
Does that also include the book of Hebrews; you said in an earlier statement, "this is when the books of Hebrews - Revelation will begin to apply"?

If it does, and you don't believe the book of Hebrews applies to us now, why did you quote from it when you were defining what faith is?

But you don’t build an ark because you read God commanding Noah to do so in genesis 6 right?

Hebrews has the clear definition of faith. I repeat all scripture is for us, but not all is about us, nor to us.

Guojing · Jun 14, 2020

JLB777 said:
Where do you find the term “grace dispensation”?

I thought grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1:17

JLB

Ephesians 3:2

Guojing · Jun 14, 2020

JLB777 said:
The Resurrection and Rapture happen at His Coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

JLB

Okay I can see you at a post trib believer

Strong in Him · Jun 14, 2020

Guojing said:
Hebrews has the clear definition of faith. I repeat all scripture is for us, but not all is about us, nor to us.

It's not about us individually, Mr & Mrs Smith of London; it's about God, his nature, his will, his plan, his people, how his people relate to God and how God created, protected and provided for his people. It's about how his people messed up, sinned, rebelled against God, again and again, how he never gave up on them and how he made a new covenant with people through Jesus - his Son, who had been spoken of all through the OT.
Neither was it written TO us, as individuals.

But we God's people and disciples.
We have been made by God, in his image. We sin, we need a Saviour, we can be born again, and need to be, we can follow Jesus, be part of God's family and have the gifts that the Holy Spirit wants to give us.

Again, are you saying that the statements in 1 John about the cross and God's love and forgiveness are not for us - or will not apply to us until some point in the future?

Guojing · Jun 14, 2020

Strong in Him said:
It's not about us individually, Mr & Mrs Smith of London; it's about God, his nature, his will, his plan, his people, how his people relate to God and how God created, protected and provided for his people. It's about how his people messed up, sinned, rebelled against God, again and again, how he never gave up on them and how he made a new covenant with people through Jesus - his Son, who had been spoken of all through the OT.
Neither was it written TO us, as individuals.

But we God's people and disciples.
We have been made by God, in his image. We sin, we need a Saviour, we can be born again, and need to be, we can follow Jesus, be part of God's family and have the gifts that the Holy Spirit wants to give us.

Again, are you saying that the statements in 1 John about the cross and God's love and forgiveness are not for us - or will not apply to us until some point in the future?

And Likewise, John was writing to Israel.

Our doctrine for today comes from Romans to Philemon. That does not mean you cannot learn from John, as long as you recognize his doctrine is not directed to you.

Strong in Him · Jun 14, 2020

Guojing said:
And Likewise, John was writing to Israel.

No.
John was writing to believers who were being taught false doctrine. Over and over again he says "I write this so that you will KNOW".

Where do you get the idea that he was writing to Israel?

Guojing said:
Our doctrine for today comes from Romans to Philemon.

Says who?
What about the Gospels and the things Jesus taught - they aren't Christian doctrine??

Guojing said:
That does not mean you cannot learn from John, as long as you recognize his doctrine is not directed to you.

Well I'm sorry, but if you don't think that, "God is love", 1 John 4:8, "This is how we know what love is; Jesus Christ died for us", 1 John 3:16, or "see how much love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God", 1 John 3:1 - all of which is repeated elsewhere in the NT - is doctrine or is for us, it's not surprising that you are having problems with the Gospel.

You say that only Paul's epistles are doctrine; Paul wrote about the cross in these epistles.
John wrote about the cross, same as Paul - therefore, John wrote doctrine.

Behold · Jun 14, 2020

d taylor said:
Paul does not mention trusting in The Messiah for the free gift of Eternal Life in 1 Corinthians 15. And that is the Gospel that gives Eternal Life.

In the time of the Gentiles, you have the Gentile apostle (Paul) preaching the Cross.
He is not preaching 34 Gospels, he is preaching 1.
"The Cross".
2 Timothy 2:8 King James Version
8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Behold · Jun 14, 2020

Guojing said:
And Likewise, John was writing to Israel.

Our doctrine for today comes from Romans to Philemon. That does not mean you cannot learn from John, as long as you recognize his doctrine is not directed to you.

Guojing said:
You must love Mid-Acts dispensationalism then. You heard of Cornelius R Stam and Les Feldick?

He's talking about Paul's Gospel

2 Timothy 2:8 King James Version
8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

I am Obsessed with Paul’s Gospel — Here’s Why!

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